Bangkok: Eleven Died From Gunshot Wounds

[webfact]

BLACK SATURDAY

Eleven died from gunshot wounds

By The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Eleven civilians who died during the violent clashes between red-shirt demonstrators and soldiers on Saturday night were victims of gunshot wounds, while another succumbed to heart failure, autopsy results revealed yesterday.

The autopsy results on Japanese photographer Hiro Muramoto of Reuters news agency, killed by a bullet in the back, have not been released in detail at his relatives' request.

The autopsies were performed jointly by forensic scientists and doctors from various agencies to ensure transparency and accurate results. Two observers represented the Democratic Alliance against Dictatorship (DAAD), the organisers of the ongoing anti-government protests.

Eight victims were shot with high-velocity bullets of an unknown type from a long distance, said Pol Lt-General Jongjate Aojanephong, director of the Police General Hospital. Five took shots to the head and three others to the abdomen and chest. The officer could not tell whether the bullets were shot from sitting or sniping positions.

"Autopsy results also cannot reveal whether they were trained shooters. They can only tell that the bullets were high-velocity," he added.

One victim was shot through the heart with a bullet of undecided speed. Only one body still carried a bullet, which had yet to be identified. One other casualty was shot at close range and another in the forehead, he said. The remaining details of gunshot patterns are not available.

All 12 victims have been identified, the last by his relatives just yesterday. One man died of other causes during hospital treatment - lung failure after inhaling tear gas, and subsequent heart attack.

DAAD representative Dr Cholnan Srikaew said the autopsies were transparent and he was happy with their accuracy.

The number of deaths remained at 21 while the number of those injured increased to 863 yesterday, from the 858 reported late Sunday evening, said the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration's Erawan emergency medical service centre.

Bangkok Governor MR Sukhumbhand Paribatra said all patients treated at BMA-run hospitals would have to pay nothing. Bloodstains at clash sites will be washed and garbage collected once protestors allow city cleaners to enter the areas, he said.

The Thai Red Cross is seeking more blood supplies after the current stock dropped to 300 units, from a regular daily supply of 1,500 units. A sufficient blood supply is needed to meet daily requirements and also for use during the Songkran holiday break, when injuries increase in number each year, it said.

A Japanese police officer and staff met with Thai police yesterday to check on progress in the investigation into the death of Muramoto.

Pol Maj-General Wichai Sangpraphai did not reveal details of the 20-minute discussion, but said investigations were ongoing and essential details given to the Japanese were confidential.

The Social Development and Human Security Ministry is seeking a Bt25-million budget to help families of all civilians killed in the violent clashes. Relatives of those killed or affected by state action should contact (02) 354 4244 or (02) 306 8957-8.

Immediate financial assistance comprises Bt400,000 per death, Bt200,000 for disabilities and Bt100,000 for injuries requiring more than 20 days of treatment.

Long-term assistance for disabilities includes Bt200,000 for rehabilitation and up to Bt3,000 in monthly payments.

Children of those killed or disabled will receive a monthly allowance until they earn college degrees.

-- The Nation 2010-04-13

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[jucel]

they sure did!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcwxd7_redbkk_news

surely they could tell if it was a sniper from the trajectory of the in/exit wounds on the bodies

Edited April 13, 2010 by jucel

[Miiyai46]

Didn't someone say that they were only shooting rubber bullets?!?

Did all these people comitted suicide? How can the govt keep telling lies...

[Siam Simon]

So, one body still has a bullet inside but they haven't identified the origins of the bullet? Why? What gauge is it? Where was it made? Who was it supplied to, and when? All this info is readily available from the bullet and is a start to the forensic analysis of this death. Why the prevarication?

[cavelight]

Strong echoes of the JFK assassination. That red shirt with his brain on display was certainly the recipient of a high-velocity round.

Take a read of the JFK autopsy, and you'll quickly see what I'm talking about...

JFK Autopsy

Edited April 13, 2010 by cavelight

[Jerrytheyoung]

So in summary:

10 shot by snipers

only one deceased due to consequence of tear gas and rally.

nearly all victims shot by snipers

Interesting to link with Seh Daeng report: 3 groups of snipers

- Army beginning to shoot on Red Shirts

- Ronin Fighters protecting the Red Shirt and shooting to the Army snipers

- a third group "unknown" shooting the Command Officers and throwing a grenade on the Command tent...

[jucel]

So, one body still has a bullet inside but they haven't identified the origins of the bullet? Why? What gauge is it? Where was it made? Who was it supplied to, and when? All this info is readily available from the bullet and is a start to the forensic analysis of this death. Why the prevarication?

totally agree ballistics is an exact science and with modern technology all info should be available etc

[jucel]

Strong echoes of the JFK assassination. That red shirt with his brain on display was certainly the recipient of a high-velocity round.

Take a read of the JFK autopsy, and you'll quickly see what I'm talking about...

JFK Autopsy

i agree. i would also say that this is a premeditated first degree murder. the red shirt was just wandering around with a flag in his hand and was picked off by a sniper. I would even go further and say whoever did this heinous crime probably got some kind of satisfaction from it. The sniper would have eyed up the unarmed target and taken time to think about his actions etc. This was not a defensive action, this was planned and executed by a professional marksman.

[anotherpeter]

they sure did!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcwxd7_redbkk_news

surely they could tell if it was a sniper from the trajectory of the in/exit wounds on the bodies

Do you think the guy with in the black shirt that came out of the building had anything to do with it?

He walks out with something in his hand. People turn towards him, including the guy with the flag. The guy with the flag falls *away* from the direction where a group of people are leaning over someone next to the building.

Is that just a coincidence?

The guy with the flag didn't get hit by the army from the left.

There is only *rumours* that there were army snipers, yet there is plenty of evidence of guys in black walking around amongst the reds with high powered rifles, and of these guys shooting at the army.

I am certain that the army used live ammunition aimed at the reds, but IMO most of that was only after coming under attack with grenades and live fire from the red side.

What would the army or government gain from shooting unarmed protestors, particularly from sniper positions?

They would gain nothing and lose a lot of support.

Edited April 13, 2010 by anotherpeter

[tracymeaw]

Didn't someone say that they were only shooting rubber bullets?!?

Did all these people comitted suicide? How can the govt keep telling lies...

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-431234

'There were no live bullets fired at protesters,' Panitan Wattanayagorn

said in press conference shown on national television.

[jucel]

they sure did!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcwxd7_redbkk_news

surely they could tell if it was a sniper from the trajectory of the in/exit wounds on the bodies

Do you think the guy with in the black shirt that came out of the building had anything to do with it?

He walks out with something in his hand. People turn towards him, including the guy with the flag. The guy with the flag falls *away* from the direction where a group of people are leaning over someone next to the building.

Is that just a coincidence?

The guy with the flag didn't get hit by the army from the left.

There is only *rumours* that there were army snipers, yet there is plenty of evidence of guys in black walking around amongst the reds with high powered rifles, and of these guys shooting at the army.

I am certain that the army used live ammunition aimed at the reds, but IMO most of that was only after coming under attack with grenades and live fire from the red side.

What would the army or government gain from shooting unarmed protestors, particularly from sniper positions?

They would gain nothing and lose a lot of support.

i know, it all is a bit baffling and i wouldn't even try to take sides. I think though that the shot came from quite a distance and high up because it seems to hit him on the top of the head ie from high up u could aim for the whole head whereas from a standing position it seems more likely is would have it him in the face/back of the head(depending on which way he was facing). im no expert just summising

[anotherpeter]

Didn't someone say that they were only shooting rubber bullets?!?

Did all these people comitted suicide? How can the govt keep telling lies...

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-431234

'There were no live bullets fired at protesters,' Panitan Wattanayagorn

said in press conference shown on national television.

If you look at a few other reports, they also say "live ammunition fired over the heads of protestors" (which is pretty stupid) and "unless fired in self defense".

The only evidence that I have seen of the army firing directly towards the protestors is on the France24 footage, where the army were dragging away soldiers bodies after a grenade attack.

[ozzydom]

So in summary:

10 shot by snipers

only one deceased due to consequence of tear gas and rally.

nearly all victims shot by snipers

Interesting to link with Seh Daeng report: 3 groups of snipers

- Army beginning to shoot on Red Shirts

- Ronin Fighters protecting the Red Shirt and shooting to the Army snipers

- a third group "unknown" shooting the Command Officers and throwing a grenade on the Command tent...

Seh Daeng seems to be the "Nigger in the Woodpile" in all this , he is a loose cannon for sure,In a statement attributed to him yesterday he boasted of having surface to air missiles for bringing down helicopters.

[anotherpeter]

they sure did!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcwxd7_redbkk_news

surely they could tell if it was a sniper from the trajectory of the in/exit wounds on the bodies

Do you think the guy with in the black shirt that came out of the building had anything to do with it?

He walks out with something in his hand. People turn towards him, including the guy with the flag. The guy with the flag falls *away* from the direction where a group of people are leaning over someone next to the building.

Is that just a coincidence?

The guy with the flag didn't get hit by the army from the left.

There is only *rumours* that there were army snipers, yet there is plenty of evidence of guys in black walking around amongst the reds with high powered rifles, and of these guys shooting at the army.

I am certain that the army used live ammunition aimed at the reds, but IMO most of that was only after coming under attack with grenades and live fire from the red side.

What would the army or government gain from shooting unarmed protestors, particularly from sniper positions?

They would gain nothing and lose a lot of support.

i know, it all is a bit baffling and i wouldn't even try to take sides. I think though that the shot came from quite a distance and high up because it seems to hit him on the top of the head ie from high up u could aim for the whole head whereas from a standing position it seems more likely is would have it him in the face/back of the head(depending on which way he was facing). im no expert just summising

I am not sure whether it came from above or from the group on the ground, but I think the direction he fell indicates that it came from a building close by, not from a long way down the street in either direction.

He fell back nearly directly away from the building. He didn't fall to the left, which would indicate a shot from a distance down the street.

Look at it on what you can see, not where you think a shot would have come from or who you think might have done it. If you believed in alien conspiracies, you could say that it was actually an explosive device that had been implanted in his head.

[anotherpeter]

double post

Edited April 13, 2010 by anotherpeter

[RussellHantz]

Abhisit needs to apologise to the Thai people, and to the families of the deceased for his handling of the situation which led to the casualties.

He needs to make some attempt at least to wash those blood stained hands of his.

Edited April 13, 2010 by RussellHantz

[Jerrytheyoung]

So in summary:

10 shot by snipers

only one deceased due to consequence of tear gas and rally.

nearly all victims shot by snipers

Interesting to link with Seh Daeng report: 3 groups of snipers

- Army beginning to shoot on Red Shirts

- Ronin Fighters protecting the Red Shirt and shooting to the Army snipers

- a third group "unknown" shooting the Command Officers and throwing a grenade on the Command tent...

Seh Daeng seems to be the "Nigger in the Woodpile" in all this , he is a loose cannon for sure,In a statement attributed to him yesterday he boasted of having surface to air missiles for bringing down helicopters.

unfortunately this kind of equipment do exist nowadays in small portable version. so it is possible

[TPI]

they sure did!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcwxd7_redbkk_news

surely they could tell if it was a sniper from the trajectory of the in/exit wounds on the bodies

You can see that the flag bearer was shot from behind as he fell forward after being hit...I didn't see any soldiers around him...he was also shot at fairly close range as the sound and the impact were almost instantanious...Two tours of SVN, Malaya etc....I know what a shot man looks like

"Agents provocare" from the "not green" side for sure, cowardly, degenerates...

[slapout]

Who is running this mans army???? He should look at the training, performance, etc of the front line officers and the troops and then look in a mirror to find the most inept of the lot. With 3 weeks of forewarning of the possible action/ consequences even raw recruits could have been trained in crowd control as well as supplying the backup/intelligence to insure a high probability of a successful operation. A commanding general should be aware of past civil unrest in Thailand, which took place during his active service career, and prepare for that eventually.

Somewhere on a TV reply, there was mention of Seh Deang being a sniper in Vietnam, I would give that the same credibility as his brag of being privy to all the info claimed, as well as having surface to air capability. This is another example of the apparent lack of control by and respect for the leadership of the military when it is needed.

As a outsider, observing and attempting to sort the grain from the chafe, not too successfully, I might add, I really have come to the conclusion, the general populous deserve what they get. Good or bad depending on current perception.

[anotherpeter]

Abhisit needs to apologise to the Thai people, and to the families of the deceased for his handling of the situation which led to the casualties.

He needs to make some attempt at least to wash those blood stained hands of his.

He already has.

But some or the red leaders are only talking about "acceptable losses".

[anotherpeter]

they sure did!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcwxd7_redbkk_news

surely they could tell if it was a sniper from the trajectory of the in/exit wounds on the bodies

You can see that the flag bearer was shot from behind as he fell forward after being hit...I didn't see any soldiers around him...he was also shot at fairly close range as the sound and the impact were almost instantanious...Two tours of SVN, Malaya etc....I know what a shot man looks like

"Agents provocare" from the "not green" side for sure, cowardly, degenerates...

Which video were you watching? He fell backwards.

Also, there were far too many shots heard to be able to suggest which of the sounds related to the shot that hit him.

Have another look and comment again.

[TPI]

Who is running this mans army???? He should look at the training, performance, etc of the front line officers and the troops and then look in a mirror to find the most inept of the lot. With 3 weeks of forewarning of the possible action/ consequences even raw recruits could have been trained in crowd control as well as supplying the backup/intelligence to insure a high probability of a successful operation. A commanding general should be aware of past civil unrest in Thailand, which took place during his active service career, and prepare for that eventually.

Somewhere on a TV reply, there was mention of Seh Deang being a sniper in Vietnam, I would give that the same credibility as his brag of being privy to all the info claimed, as well as having surface to air capability. This is another example of the apparent lack of control by and respect for the leadership of the military when it is needed.

As a outsider, observing and attempting to sort the grain from the chafe, not too successfully, I might add, I really have come to the conclusion, the general populous deserve what they get. Good or bad depending on current perception.

Sad but true! You get the government you deserve...send them all h_ll. Property, it's all about property...how sad!

[TPI]

they sure did!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcwxd7_redbkk_news

surely they could tell if it was a sniper from the trajectory of the in/exit wounds on the bodies

You can see that the flag bearer was shot from behind as he fell forward after being hit...I didn't see any soldiers around him...he was also shot at fairly close range as the sound and the impact were almost instantanious...Two tours of SVN, Malaya etc....I know what a shot man looks like

"Agents provocare" from the "not green" side for sure, cowardly, degenerates...

Which video were you watching? He fell backwards.

Also, there were far too many shots heard to be able to suggest which of the sounds related to the shot that hit him.

Have another look and comment again.

Had another look...he was facing the building and the shot came from his right, he then folded to his left, his back is to the camera so he couldn't have been shot from the front as we would have seen the shooter?

[Huangy]

It could just as easily have been a ricochet, anything at all, really. Bullets do weird things. The reality is, some troops were firing live rounds, and from other footage, they do seem to be putting them over the heads of the crowd. And given what they faced, I'm only surprised they didn't shoot more people, or that more people weren't inadvertently hit by stray bullets. What goes up and all of that.

What an horrendous situation for the army, and no matter which side you think is right, clearly someone has to compromise or the consequences will be even more horrific.

HG

[way2muchcoffee]

The only public evidence of Army snipers targeting redshirts was a quote by Seh Daeng in Matichon. While I have no doubt that Seh Deang has quite a bit of knowledge about events Saturday night, I would take anything he says to the media with a grain of salt. There is no evidence to substantiate the claim of Army snipers that were part of the operation to clear the streets. There is evidence of redshirts being hit by bullets.

There is plenty of video evidence and photographic stills of men in black carrying firearms mingling unmolested with the redshirts. There is also evidence of redshirts themselves carrying weapons. There is also evidence of soldiers being hit with grenades, bullets, and molotov cocktails.

And the big question: Who took out the Commanding Officer for the Army?

[blackman]

The only public evidence of Army snipers targeting redshirts was a quote by Seh Daeng in Matichon. While I have no doubt that Seh Deang has quite a bit of knowledge about events Saturday night, I would take anything he says to the media with a grain of salt. There is no evidence to substantiate the claim of Army snipers that were part of the operation to clear the streets. There is evidence of redshirts being hit by bullets.

There is plenty of video evidence and photographic stills of men in black carrying firearms mingling unmolested with the redshirts. There is also evidence of redshirts themselves carrying weapons. There is also evidence of soldiers being hit with grenades, bullets, and molotov cocktails.

And the big question: Who took out the Commanding Officer for the Army?

'Ronin warriors' fire M79 grenades at troops: Khattiya

Maj-Gen Khattiya Sawasdipol said that the so-called 'Ronin' warriors or underground warriors helped red-shirt protesters battle troops on Saturday.

He admitted that the "unknown force" or "Ronin warriors" fired M79 grenades at troops and one M79 grenade landed at the tent of the commander of the operation, causing the troops to have no commander.

"This caused the troops to have no commander and caused them to lose the battle," Khattiya said.

"The Army commander thought the red shirts were easy to be crushed but there are not," Khattiya said.

The Nation

i told you before that Thais cannot keep a secret, he has as good as admitted to the murder of Col. Romklao

Seh Daeng already has an arrest warrant issued for him

Maj-Gen Khattiya Sawasdipol, known as Seh Daeng, an army specialist who has been suspended from duty, is one of the 17 people wanted under arrest warrants approved by the Criminal Court, police said.

maybe they should add to this a reward of 10 million - dead or alive

[anotherpeter]

they sure did!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcwxd7_redbkk_news

surely they could tell if it was a sniper from the trajectory of the in/exit wounds on the bodies

You can see that the flag bearer was shot from behind as he fell forward after being hit...I didn't see any soldiers around him...he was also shot at fairly close range as the sound and the impact were almost instantanious...Two tours of SVN, Malaya etc....I know what a shot man looks like

"Agents provocare" from the "not green" side for sure, cowardly, degenerates...

Which video were you watching? He fell backwards.

Also, there were far too many shots heard to be able to suggest which of the sounds related to the shot that hit him.

Have another look and comment again.

Had another look...he was facing the building and the shot came from his right, he then folded to his left, his back is to the camera so he couldn't have been shot from the front as we would have seen the shooter?

He definitely wasn't shot from the camera side. He walked towards something (IMO, something to do with the guy in black that walked out a few seconds before). He glanced to his right (towards the army) with his feet facing directly towards the building. Just before the camera moved off him, you can see him move to be facing slightly to the right.

If you say that when he was facing the building that was zero degrees. He was probably facing 10-15 degrees when he was shot. Given that he fell basically directly backwards, the shot did not come from a 90 deg angle (directly down the street away from the army). It came from either the direction he was facing to slightly to the right of that - maybe 45-60 degrees.

At about 9 seconds, there is something white/cream in the right of the picture. What is that? A truck? or just a sign?

[kevkev1888]

The guy in the black sure looks suspect to me? kinda looks like hes cocking a pistol as he is walking along.

of course its impossible to tell but he sure looks like a man on a mission.

[dino67]

The France24 video shows a soldier firing one shot from an M16 that may have been at the same elevation as the crowd - he may have shot at a wall !

The following shots are at an elevation well over the protestors heads.

I'm not taking sides but have 30+ years experience with ballistics and firearms.

In the other You tube video of the red protestor that was shot in the head look at a guy in black at the 9 -10 second mark exiting the building - he appears to be chambering a round or clearing a round from a handgun before he dissappears from sight, moments later our subject is shot in the head. It may have been an accidential discharge or he turned to quickly fire a shot in the armies direction and hit his own guy.

I have looked closely at many of the videos posted around the web.

Circumstantial evidence leads me to forming the opinion the guys in black decided to start the bloodbath by shooting people from both sides in the hope they would initiate a bloodbath. Peaceful protests wouldn't have furthered their agenda.

In the videos I have seen the guys in black can move freely around the reds indicating they are part of the movement.

Anyone who thinks higher up people wouldn't sacrifice a few of the protesters for the benefit of the larger cause is naive.

[offissa]

Excuse me for asking but what does the direction he fell have to do with the direction he was shot from? High velocity bullets don't push you, they go through you.