Anger And Agony Remain As Red-Shirts Abandon Phan Fa

[webfact]

Anger and agony remain as old protest site abandoned

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Red shirts abandoned protest sites on Phan Fa bridge and along Rajdamnoen Avenue late yesterday after their leaders decided to have them join the Rajprasong intersection site for strategic reasons.

Leaders said it would be easier to guard one site rather than two - but Rajprasong is definitely more strategic in terms of its effect on the economy.

By 5.30pm, the last anti-government song was played on the main stage while staff were removing chairs, floors, electric lines and began disassembling the stage itself.

The smell of urine wafted through the summer heat as some remained to converse about politics.

"This is just the beginning," said a 60-something red-shirt sympathiser to another man at Phan Fa bridge. "The yearning for justice is in Thais' blood."

"Who [condemned] manipulating the media while in power? And look at it now," said another man, in his thirties, referring to the shutting down of red-shirt media under an emergency decree.

"That's just the excuse of a dictator," said the older man.

A sad air remains in the place where barely five days ago clashes to "request for a return of the space" by the military left 22 dead and more than 850 hurt.

Some abandoned red-shirt signs, such as Pitsanulok Red Shirts, are found on nearby Lan Luang Street along with the litter, while Bangkok Metropolitan Administration cleaning staff and police take back the place, along with a handful of homeless people.

At Democracy Monument and the adjoining Din Sor Road, where wreckage of 10 armoured vehicles remains, some 200 red shirts refuse to go and hang on to chat well into the evening.

They mostly talk about the deadly clashes on Saturday night and they're all convinced soldiers killed the protesters.

"If they want to clear us out of [Rajprasong intersection] too then we'll bring the whole country to ruin - end of story," said a woman, anger in her eyes.

"I don't know who [the men in black] are but I thank them for without them, many red shirts would have been killed," she said.

The Democracy Monument has turned into a blank canvas for hate messages against Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and the military, with all imaginable words of abuse written on it.

More muted words are to be found on one wall of the monument, however. "Rest in peace brave martyrs. We red shirts will make sure that justice is served."

-- The Nation 2010-04-15

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[chadintheusa]

Phan Fa has little value at this point. If the reds want to hold the Thai Economy hostage they know the shopping district is more valuable. They can cause more mayhem there if there is a crackdown. Since they are all in one place they should be blockaded in. All stores and businesses should close. Prevent new reds from entering the area and let's see how long they protest without access to food and water.

[Neurath]

""If they want to clear us out of [Rajprasong intersection] too then we'll bring the whole country to ruin - end of story," said a woman, anger in her eyes.

"I don't know who [the men in black] are but I thank them for without them, many red shirts would have been killed," she said."

Seems that she has no doubts whatsoever.

[chadintheusa]

""If they want to clear us out of [Rajprasong intersection] too then we'll bring the whole country to ruin - end of story," said a woman, anger in her eyes.

"I don't know who [the men in black] are but I thank them for without them, many red shirts would have been killed," she said."

Seems that she has no doubts whatsoever.

If she doesn't know who they are, how does she know they didn't kill red shirts? At least muslims promise their martyrs 72 virgins, what to the red shirts expect to get to die for a rich old fool.

[Neurath]

""If they want to clear us out of [Rajprasong intersection] too then we'll bring the whole country to ruin - end of story," said a woman, anger in her eyes.

"I don't know who [the men in black] are but I thank them for without them, many red shirts would have been killed," she said."

Seems that she has no doubts whatsoever.

If she doesn't know who they are, how does she know they didn't kill red shirts? At least muslims promise their martyrs 72 virgins, what to the red shirts expect to get to die for a rich old fool.

Either way, she seems to be contradicting Nattawut and saying that the 'men in black' we're active and armed combatants.

[blackman]

""If they want to clear us out of [Rajprasong intersection] too then we'll bring the whole country to ruin - end of story," said a woman, anger in her eyes.

"I don't know who [the men in black] are but I thank them for without them, many red shirts would have been killed," she said."

Seems that she has no doubts whatsoever.

If she doesn't know who they are, how does she know they didn't kill red shirts? At least muslims promise their martyrs 72 virgins, what to the red shirts expect to get to die for a rich old fool.

Either way, she seems to be contradicting Nattawut and saying that the 'men in black' we're active and armed combatants.

well spotted Neurath, its clear that the women thinks that the men in black were working for the red shirts and that is the likely concensus of most ground level reds

she is just way off base as to what they were actually doing for the reds

it will come as shock to her when they actually catch one, make an amnesty deal with him and find he was there to kill red shirts rather than save them and that the red leaders, Seh Daeng and Thaksin were the paymasters

its only a matter of time before the truth will be out and the red menace will self destruct.

[LevelHead]

I see another Thailand English language media is now headlining "Army admit firing live rounds at protestors".

So first the Abhisit/Suthep circus says no soldiers had live ammo.

Then they change that story and say they had some but only fired in the air.

Then they change that story and say had some, fired in the air and only if needed, but not directly at protestors.

Now finally they admit they had live ammo, they fired directly at protestors.

This immoral and parliamentary coup made government is a national disgrace, in fact, its now a worldwide disgrace for Thailand to have them in power and to lie so much.

They got caught out as too many people have camera's video and mobile phone camera's - its 2010 and not 1992.

Why is Anupong not demanding Abhisit resign ? Why has Abhisit not resigned ? Why has Suthep not resigned ? Why has Anupong not resigned ?

Read back to all that was said when Somchai ordered the police to crackdown on PAD Yellows who were treasonous and blocked parliament from opening. Yet more "double standards".

[Meridian007]

I'm surprised that the business owners in Ratchaphrasong don't start constructing metal gates on the ground floor of their buildings. If they were able to make the ground floor of all the buildings into a wall of steel, the leverage of the protesters would be gone.

[jesimps]

""If they want to clear us out of [Rajprasong intersection] too then we'll bring the whole country to ruin - end of story," said a woman, anger in her eyes.

"I don't know who [the men in black] are but I thank them for without them, many red shirts would have been killed," she said."

Seems that she has no doubts whatsoever.

If she doesn't know who they are, how does she know they didn't kill red shirts? At least muslims promise their martyrs 72 virgins, what to the red shirts expect to get to die for a rich old fool.

Either way, she seems to be contradicting Nattawut and saying that the 'men in black' we're active and armed combatants.

well spotted Neurath, its clear that the women thinks that the men in black were working for the red shirts and that is the likely concensus of most ground level reds

she is just way off base as to what they were actually doing for the reds

it will come as shock to her when they actually catch one, make an amnesty deal with him and find he was there to kill red shirts rather than save them and that the red leaders, Seh Daeng and Thaksin were the paymasters

its only a matter of time before the truth will be out and the red menace will self destruct.

They won't self-destruct, they're over half the population and they have grit because they're the common people. As for the black shirts, maybe they're another version of the blue shirts who caused a lot of the problems in Pattaya during ASEAN.

[givenall]

Either way, she seems to be contradicting Nattawut and saying that the 'men in black' we're active and armed combatants.

well spotted Neurath, its clear that the women thinks that the men in black were working for the red shirts and that is the likely concensus of most ground level reds

she is just way off base as to what they were actually doing for the reds

it will come as shock to her when they actually catch one, make an amnesty deal with him and find he was there to kill red shirts rather than save them and that the red leaders, Seh Daeng and Thaksin were the paymasters

its only a matter of time before the truth will be out and the red menace will self destruct.

Living in a fantasy world. Sooner or later their sponsors will run out of cash and these Red Shirts will also be abandoned

Edited April 15, 2010 by givenall

[blackman]

jesimps

They won't self-destruct, they're over half the population and they have grit because they're the common people. As for the black shirts, maybe they're another version of the blue shirts who caused a lot of the problems in Pattaya during ASEAN.

half the population?

there are maybe 25,000 protesters in Bangkok out of a country of 65 million?

hardly a representative proportion

also if ''they're over half the population'', where were they the last time a vote was taken?

they did not get anywhere near half the votes that were cast

[Ricardo]

I see another Thailand English language media is now headlining "Army admit firing live rounds at protestors".

So first the Abhisit/Suthep circus says no soldiers had live ammo.

Then they change that story and say they had some but only fired in the air.

Then they change that story and say had some, fired in the air and only if needed, but not directly at protestors.

Now finally they admit they had live ammo, they fired directly at protestors.

<snip for brevity>

Is it not also possible that, as the situation changed and the 'peaceful-protest' turned into an armed-insurrection, the Army had to change their tactics, in the way you describe ? This was not a static situation.

Remember that the military had been extremely tolerant, for the three-and-a-half weeks up until a State-of-Emergency had been declared, giving the protesters fair-warning, that their tactics were about to change. They deserve credit, for their good actions, as well as condemnation for their bad.

[tominbkk]

"I don't know who [the men in black] are but I thank them for without them, many red shirts would have been killed," she said.

The sad irony is is that if the black goons had not been there, there would have been no bloodshed.

[blackman]

Living in a fantasy world. Sooner or later their sponsors will run out of cash and these Red Shirts will also be abandoned

yes its possible i am but fantasy can easily become conspiracy

however, i hope you are right about your theory

i am in favour of anything that brings about the demise of the red bullies

[tominbkk]

Prevent new reds from entering the area and let's see how long they protest without access to food and water.

Very good idea!

[tominbkk]

I'm surprised that the business owners in Ratchaphrasong don't start constructing metal gates on the ground floor of their buildings. If they were able to make the ground floor of all the buildings into a wall of steel, the leverage of the protesters would be gone.

Haha cage the dangerous animals.....and throw in a few muzzles for the leaders!

[sokal]

""If they want to clear us out of [Rajprasong intersection] too then we'll bring the whole country to ruin - end of story," said a woman, anger in her eyes.

"I don't know who [the men in black] are but I thank them for without them, many red shirts would have been killed," she said."

Seems that she has no doubts whatsoever.

If she doesn't know who they are, how does she know they didn't kill red shirts? At least muslims promise their martyrs 72 virgins, what to the red shirts expect to get to die for a rich old fool.

haha

[animatic]

If the right words are found in the right person the Red Leadership will self destruct quickly.

Such as a sniper hired by Thaksin subordinates to create havoc at the site.

This has little or nothing to do with getting justice for poor rural Thais at this point, it is a

power play using that theme as one of it's manipulations of simpler people as cannon fodder.

Of course this has been sold so hard and long that many believe the cover story, including

theoretically intelligent farangs on TVF.

Of course there are others just spouting the party line,

and others just being trolls because they haven't got a life,

and others dropping thoughts in so trolls and others can run with them.

Professional perception management experts, using a quick phrase to turn

the dialog to or from their points of imagery.

And no small amounts of Red Zealots, just repeating what has been

beaten into their heads for months on end. Such as these illogical tidbits.

Jatuporn yesterday insisted the red-shirt protesters were unarmed,

adding it was the Army's duty to find out about the heavily armed men.

He called on four major business associations -

the Thai Bankers Association, the Federation of Thai Industries,

the Thai Chamber of Commerce and the Tourism Council of Thailand -

to be responsible for what happened.

He said the ongoing crisis stemmed from those groups' moves

against the governments of Samak Sundaravej and Somchai Wongsawat

while supporting the Democrat Party's rise to power.

Oh yes, not liking Red Provocateurs and supporting the opposite party

now suddenly makes them culpable for all these deaths...

And this guy is an elected MP. Certifiable psychopath might fit better.

Apportioning blame willy nilly and with ridiculous lack of logic.

Anything to spin the blame away from his own side for sending hundreds

in to battle against riot control security forces.

Unarmed except for bamboo spears, bricks rocks, Molotov cocktails, teargas,

stolen guns, and grenades... no the reds were unarmed and peaceful...

Edited April 15, 2010 by animatic

[eddie11]

""If they want to clear us out of [Rajprasong intersection] too then we'll bring the whole country to ruin - end of story," said a woman, anger in her eyes.

"I don't know who [the men in black] are but I thank them for without them, many red shirts would have been killed," she said."

Seems that she has no doubts whatsoever.

If she doesn't know who they are, how does she know they didn't kill red shirts? At least muslims promise their martyrs 72 virgins, what to the red shirts expect to get to die for a rich old fool.

Either way, she seems to be contradicting Nattawut and saying that the 'men in black' we're active and armed combatants.

This is from the nation, there was no old woman

[blackman]

""If they want to clear us out of [Rajprasong intersection] too then we'll bring the whole country to ruin - end of story," said a woman, anger in her eyes.

"I don't know who [the men in black] are but I thank them for without them, many red shirts would have been killed," she said."

Seems that she has no doubts whatsoever.

If she doesn't know who they are, how does she know they didn't kill red shirts? At least muslims promise their martyrs 72 virgins, what to the red shirts expect to get to die for a rich old fool.

Either way, she seems to be contradicting Nattawut and saying that the 'men in black' we're active and armed combatants.

This is from the nation, there was no old woman

you seem to have a reading problem, no-one said she was 'old'

[animatic]

I'm surprised that the business owners in Ratchaphrasong don't start constructing metal gates on the ground floor of their buildings. If they were able to make the ground floor of all the buildings into a wall of steel, the leverage of the protesters would be gone.

Haha cage the dangerous animals.....and throw in a few muzzles for the leaders!

Well the old way to break a siege was to catapult in a few dead cows with anthrax or the like.

Pretty soon the castle leader bows to necessity. Lacking infectious carrion,

I am sure there are a few things that if tossed at one end would create a desire to exit at the other.

More seriously, the idea of a blockade and letting nothing in or out until

a general REAL SURRENDER is reached, has some merits.

[wallhigh]

hahaha, losing support and less people protesting, serves them right

[blackman]

I'm surprised that the business owners in Ratchaphrasong don't start constructing metal gates on the ground floor of their buildings. If they were able to make the ground floor of all the buildings into a wall of steel, the leverage of the protesters would be gone.

Haha cage the dangerous animals.....and throw in a few muzzles for the leaders!

Well the old way to break a siege was to catapult in a few dead cows with anthrax or the like.

Pretty soon the castle leader bows to necessity. Lacking infectious carrion,

I am sure there are a few things that if tossed at one end would create a desire to exit at the other.

More seriously, the idea of a blockade and letting nothing in or out until

a general REAL SURRENDER is reached, has some merits.

that would be an interesting turn of events

they want to stay there so let them stay but without food, water and toilets

then they would have to fight to get out

[bkkjames]

I'm surprised that the business owners in Ratchaphrasong don't start constructing metal gates on the ground floor of their buildings. If they were able to make the ground floor of all the buildings into a wall of steel, the leverage of the protesters would be gone.

Haha cage the dangerous animals.....and throw in a few muzzles for the leaders!

Well the old way to break a siege was to catapult in a few dead cows with anthrax or the like.

Pretty soon the castle leader bows to necessity. Lacking infectious carrion,

I am sure there are a few things that if tossed at one end would create a desire to exit at the other.

More seriously, the idea of a blockade and letting nothing in or out until

a general REAL SURRENDER is reached, has some merits.

that would be an interesting turn of events

they want to stay there so let them stay but without food, water and toilets

then they would have to fight to get out

The problem with this is they would likely force their way into nearbye hotels, malls stealing and damaging anything possible.

While I do feel for the peaceful protestors and don't deny their long held complaints, I fear that sooner or later their leaders will put them in harms way once again.

The pressure is mounting, for a month they have been protesting without the results their leaders seek, with doubts creeping in amongst the peaceful majority, I predict that the desperation of their leaders will result in another bloodbath. Hope I am wrong.

Edited April 15, 2010 by bkkjames

[kurtgruen]

I'm surprised that the business owners in Ratchaphrasong don't start constructing metal gates on the ground floor of their buildings. If they were able to make the ground floor of all the buildings into a wall of steel, the leverage of the protesters would be gone.

Haha cage the dangerous animals.....and throw in a few muzzles for the leaders!

Well the old way to break a siege was to catapult in a few dead cows with anthrax or the like.

Pretty soon the castle leader bows to necessity. Lacking infectious carrion,

I am sure there are a few things that if tossed at one end would create a desire to exit at the other.

More seriously, the idea of a blockade and letting nothing in or out until

a general REAL SURRENDER is reached, has some merits.

that would be an interesting turn of events

they want to stay there so let them stay but without food, water and toilets

then they would have to fight to get out

Running with these thoughts, I could think of all kinds of not so nice, smelly substances, they could drop on the demostrators, via helicopters. They would quickly loose their appetite and go home. After all, who wants to stay in a place, that stinks, is not "sanuk" and takes the fun out of eating?

[geriatrickid]

I'm surprised that the business owners in Ratchaphrasong don't start constructing metal gates on the ground floor of their buildings. If they were able to make the ground floor of all the buildings into a wall of steel, the leverage of the protesters would be gone.

Haha cage the dangerous animals.....and throw in a few muzzles for the leaders!

Well the old way to break a siege was to catapult in a few dead cows with anthrax or the like.

Pretty soon the castle leader bows to necessity. Lacking infectious carrion,

I am sure there are a few things that if tossed at one end would create a desire to exit at the other.

More seriously, the idea of a blockade and letting nothing in or out until

a general REAL SURRENDER is reached, has some merits.

What era are you people living in? This is not good old Europe of 1052, nor is it the Warsaw ghetto and you do not get to barricade in people and then gas them.

The UDD protestors are not going to surrender if your bankrupt strategies are used. Only patience and sincere negotiations will resolve this now, or else the uprising that will ensue will find you all cowering under your beds. Let them pull back in peace. The bottom line is that one area can now be pacified without the further loss of life. These people were already in the other area. Get it through your noggins that these people cannot be forced into submission. They are tough bumiputra. Unlike the typical PAD member they can live rough without wilting. They will not go away no matter how many are shot in the back, gassed or disappear. General Prem must step back and let honest discussions start.

[rreddin]

I'm surprised that the business owners in Ratchaphrasong don't start constructing metal gates on the ground floor of their buildings. If they were able to make the ground floor of all the buildings into a wall of steel, the leverage of the protesters would be gone.

Haha cage the dangerous animals.....and throw in a few muzzles for the leaders!

Well the old way to break a siege was to catapult in a few dead cows with anthrax or the like.

Pretty soon the castle leader bows to necessity. Lacking infectious carrion,

I am sure there are a few things that if tossed at one end would create a desire to exit at the other.

More seriously, the idea of a blockade and letting nothing in or out until

a general REAL SURRENDER is reached, has some merits.

Wake up and smell the coffee! That is not going to happen. The political tide has turned against Abhisit and he knows it. He, the army, the police and the Bangkok Metropolitan Authority also know that the last thing they want now is a public health disaster in the middle of Bangkok. That is exactly what would happen if they followed your suggestion.

[blackman]

Running with these thoughts, I could think of all kinds of not so nice, smelly substances, they could drop on the demostrators, via helicopters. They would quickly loose their appetite and go home. After all, who wants to stay in a place, that stinks, is not "sanuk" and takes the fun out of eating?

now theres an idea, weren't the protestors told by the red leadership to take excrement and old fish with them to Bangkok to throw at the authorities?

maybe a taste of their own medicine is in order

[blackman]

I'm surprised that the business owners in Ratchaphrasong don't start constructing metal gates on the ground floor of their buildings. If they were able to make the ground floor of all the buildings into a wall of steel, the leverage of the protesters would be gone.

Haha cage the dangerous animals.....and throw in a few muzzles for the leaders!

Well the old way to break a siege was to catapult in a few dead cows with anthrax or the like.

Pretty soon the castle leader bows to necessity. Lacking infectious carrion,

I am sure there are a few things that if tossed at one end would create a desire to exit at the other.

More seriously, the idea of a blockade and letting nothing in or out until

a general REAL SURRENDER is reached, has some merits.

Wake up and smell the coffee! That is not going to happen. The political tide has turned against Abhisit and he knows it. He, the army, the police and the Bangkok Metropolitan Authority also know that the last thing they want now is a public health disaster in the middle of Bangkok. That is exactly what would happen if they followed your suggestion.

and the throwing of HIV and hepatitus B infected blood was not a public health disaster?

did the reds care about that?

[bkkjames]

I'm surprised that the business owners in Ratchaphrasong don't start constructing metal gates on the ground floor of their buildings. If they were able to make the ground floor of all the buildings into a wall of steel, the leverage of the protesters would be gone.

Haha cage the dangerous animals.....and throw in a few muzzles for the leaders!

Well the old way to break a siege was to catapult in a few dead cows with anthrax or the like.

Pretty soon the castle leader bows to necessity. Lacking infectious carrion,

I am sure there are a few things that if tossed at one end would create a desire to exit at the other.

More seriously, the idea of a blockade and letting nothing in or out until

a general REAL SURRENDER is reached, has some merits.

Wake up and smell the coffee! That is not going to happen. The political tide has turned against Abhisit and he knows it. He, the army, the police and the Bangkok Metropolitan Authority also know that the last thing they want now is a public health disaster in the middle of Bangkok. That is exactly what would happen if they followed your suggestion.

You are right, time to think outside of the box.

Perhaps the rachaprasong business association can offer 100 k each and free otop space to each protester to leave.

At least this way they can return home richer than they arrived, save a little face and get out of harms way etc.

The offer expires on April 18. No refunds or exchanges allowed.