Thai Army Says Planning Operation To Clear Protesters

[robint]

quote

I agree, typical Thailand too many Generals but no Warriors

unquote

fyi there are over 900 generals in the army

[rinnie]

Twitter #redshirts government using rainmaking planes to wash out protests - have developed lightning weapons - crackdown imminent

EDIT: Seriously, I should start a parody Twitter account, it couldn't be any worse than most of what gets tweeted. REPORTS OF TANKS SHIPPED IN CRACKDOWN IMMINENT. They might as well set this stuff as a daily headline.

Classic !! good one ; )

funny!!!! Thanks for the laugh :-)

[jdinasia]

Does that mean that Thaksin didn't put in any sustainable policies to help the poor?

As soon as he stopped handing out money, the situation with the poor got worse?

No, it indicates that successful programs had less funding. However, subsequent to the coup, military spending increased. The proposed budget for this year has one of the largest increases since Thaksin was overthrown.

LOL

[danc]

is this thread still concerned with the Thai army planning operation to clear protesters?

or has it morphed into something else?

please advise, i simply cannot be bothered reading back through 11 pages to see where it lost its way?

Gone off script - maybe go undercover/secret ops like the good ol' days and see if you can bring it back in line

[AsiaCheese]

This is Thailand and yes, I have been here a very long time and I employed staff up country and when it came down to wages, the ministry of work was on my back to make sure minimum wages were paid.

Considering the cost of living up-country and the family units there is no real reason why children should be starving. The strange thing is, there always seems to be enough money around for a TV and for drink, but as you say not for food. Fish and fruit are abandoned and considering that most of these people are rice farmers, you are contradicting yourself here since the price of rice has gone up, so has income.

The main problem is that they all want to live beyond their means and to buy motorcycles and fancy clothes. They borrow money from the ever present money lenders and by the time wages are paid, they have to pay a big chunk of those to the money lender. Gambling is another cause for financial problems of many Isanies , but they can not blame the government for this!

There is a problem I admit with the IQ level because most do not use salt but only fish sauce. It is a medical fact that especially during growth, the brain needs Iodine to develop and when this is missing..... well, the results we see gathered in Bangkok right now. Chulalungkorn University did a study on this along time ago and came up with the same results. But this is not caused by poverty, simply by choice.

Fully agree: the present level of poverty is to a (large?) degree self-inflicted. One big problem is that many if not most "rice farmers" are severely under-educated and susceptible to visions of "the beautiful life" (see: soap operas). They did lots better before the onslaught of big business and modern times consumerism. Thailand was a purely agricultural country until what -- less than 100? -- years ago. And then suddenly, parts of the country got warped into the 20th century. From the time the US used Thailand as a base for the Vietnam war, it didn't take long for the entire mass of Western "greats" like McDonalds, 7-Eleven, Pizzahut and you-name-it to set up shop here. With them came the marketing machines, unleashed on people who hadn't gradually grown up with it and thus hadn't had time to develop any kind of "resistance". The result: what BKjohn describes above. But it goes one step further than that. Thais tend to look at the façade of something and seldom bother to "drill down" to get at the facts. That is why it's so easy for the likes of Thaksin and his ilk to get "messages across".

Better education and making kids develop a critical attitude is where it's at. Teaching farmer kids basic business principles could make agriculture a viable business for many, as opposed to a debt trap. Learning some fundamentals, the national anthem and some of the country's ancient history (good bits only) simply doesn't cut it. Neither does the "being nice" attitude that lets almost anyone pass examns. And hey, I'm not talking about westernizing schools or importing farang ideas/morals...!

However, there are two aspects to that: even if a massive education push were to start today, it would take time to come to fruition. Only at that point would it be truely, totally feasible to run the country based on one man/one vote (and no: I'm not advocation anything else for now -- just to preclude flaming). The second aspect: if the countryside were to experience a better-living upswing, obesity would be quick to follow too

[hammered]

Looks like things will get worse before they get better. A lot of players now seem to have got themselves into positions they dont want to be in and there is no easy way out.

[reallyok]

Anupong appointed new emergency operations command chief

BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva announced on TV Friday night that Army Commander-in-Chief Gen Anupong Paochinda has been appointed the new commander of the Emergency Operations Command.

Abhisit said Anupong has replaced Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban for the job.

-- The Nation 2010-04-14

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Surely by sacking his deputy PM from the security job and handing it over to the Army this an admission by the PM that he can no longer control the situation.

In this case, he should stand down and call a new election. The army should then firmly stand behing which ever party is elected to run the country for its term, regardless wether it be Yellow or Red.

[hammered]

Anupong appointed new emergency operations command chief

BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva announced on TV Friday night that Army Commander-in-Chief Gen Anupong Paochinda has been appointed the new commander of the Emergency Operations Command.

Abhisit said Anupong has replaced Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban for the job.

-- The Nation 2010-04-14

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Surely by sacking his deputy PM from the security job and handing it over to the Army this an admission by the PM that he can no longer control the situation.

In this case, he should stand down and call a new election. The army should then firmly stand behing which ever party is elected to run the country for its term, regardless wether it be Yellow or Red.

Fine in theory. Not a chance of it happening

[reallyok]

This government is unfortunately made up out of power horny morons. The frequent use of the word "Terrorist" means that the people do not give a rats ass about the status, the economy and the reputation of the country.

I try to figure out for a few days why the army went in last Saturday with anti aircraft weapons in their arsenal which according the claims of the army were confiscated by the red shirts. This can only be a set-up. the reds do not have any aircraft who is planning to bring one down? A terrorist? The army? It seems that everything is allowed to stay in power.

The economist was suggesting a election in three months time, which should probably do, if it were not for the deputy of Anupong who wants to take control in September?October. Given the fact that the polls that are so often quoted by the government will be proven to be paid for by the elite and the one and only poll (Elections) will bring parties related to the reds an outright majority his chances of being promoted are nil, zero, nada, which would void the entire coup which brought Thailand only misery.

Sonthi and his fellow couptakers should go to jail for a very very long time and their self proclaimed amnesty revoked.

At the end of the day, the facts are that all the present day problems that the nation is facing, were brought about by a selfish man called SONTHI. So where is he now ??? why is he allowed to walk away 'squeeky clean' will he ever have to face what he has done ?

[reallyok]

So the headline at the top, saying Government ready for more talks with Reds means the machine guns will do the talking?

It is the red leadership under instructions from Thaksin who prefer petrol bombs to negotiations.

you forgot to mention that this would not be happening if the ligitmate government (red shirts) were still in power

i am apolitical....

"Under instructions from Thaksin"................what proof has this idiot got ? Why are people allowed to print such inflammatory stupid bloody guesswork.............It should NOT be allowed past admin !

[OzMick]

So the headline at the top, saying Government ready for more talks with Reds means the machine guns will do the talking?

It is the red leadership under instructions from Thaksin who prefer petrol bombs to negotiations.

you forgot to mention that this would not be happening if the ligitmate government (red shirts) were still in power

i am apolitical....

"Under instructions from Thaksin"................what proof has this idiot got ? Why are people allowed to print such inflammatory stupid bloody guesswork.............It should NOT be allowed past admin !

Ho hum, just got here did you? have you ever heard "he who pays the piper calls the tune"? do you think Takki is shovelling out cash from the goodness of his heart? Who keeps stirring the pot from afar? who sent the mystery SMS?

[reallyok]

Exactly. What the reds have created is anarchy. It simply can't be tolerated or there is no country.

Rubbish !! they are only copying what they were taught by the Yellow shirts only in a more civilized, considerate and peaceful way.

There is no doubt that these tactics were created by the Yellow shirts a couple of years ago..........where in the hel_l were you, not to have noticed it.

[agord]

[..] In the U.S., ... [..]

In the US this, in the US that, in the US, man I read that all day long.

It must be heaven, with everything being so perfect. (You're having

a great tea party time I guess.)

Can we please focus on the fact that this is NOT the US, and this is

not ABOUT the US now? (And that the world doesn't turn around

the US either? And that some of us might really, REALLY not give

a *** what would or wouldn't be in the US?)

Thanks, from someone not in the US but in Thailand.

I, for one, would like to know more about what additional power this

recent change has given the army, for instance, except the obvious

one. Does this increase the chance for a potential coup?

That would be a lot more interesting than what would ... Ok, I zip it.

ok then in THE UK......... take it easy! I think the op is just using the US as an example to say that most other "real" countries would not allow this nonsense to go on as it has. Should he have used Mexico as an example? probably not eh

[agord]

Exactly. What the reds have created is anarchy. It simply can't be tolerated or there is no country.

Rubbish !! they are only copying what they were taught by the Yellow shirts only in a more civilized, considerate and peaceful way.

There is no doubt that these tactics were created by the Yellow shirts a couple of years ago..........where in the hel_l were you, not to have noticed it.

"in a more civilized, considerate and peaceful way" what?

[Jingthing]

Exactly. What the reds have created is anarchy. It simply can't be tolerated or there is no country.

Rubbish !! they are only copying what they were taught by the Yellow shirts only in a more civilized, considerate and peaceful way.

There is no doubt that these tactics were created by the Yellow shirts a couple of years ago..........where in the hel_l were you, not to have noticed it.

I was in Thailand. There is no comparison, now, really. The reds have gone much further, in the violence, anarchy, and revolution department as Thailand is now on the verge of a civil war.

More civilized ... etc.? Is that the latest Truth Today spin on it? You know there are a lot of stupid people out there, but there are limits.

Yes, yes, yes, we ALL get the connection/rationalization between the red insurgency and the coup and the airport shutdown. It has been repeated like a million times. However, we are here today, dealing with what is happening today. Even if we accept there are root causes, that doesn't mean that the rule of law should simply cave in to violent anarchists (who refuses any kind of peace talks) now, today.

Edited April 17, 2010 by Jingthing

[anotherpeter]

The red supporters out there like to put the reds up as better than the yellows, but every second statement is "But the Yellows ...".

[retarius]

So the headline at the top, saying Government ready for more talks with Reds means the machine guns will do the talking?

It is the red leadership under instructions from Thaksin who prefer petrol bombs to negotiations.

Yes grenades launched from the beginning, using automatic weapons, grenades, and firebombs against unarmed troops, the redshirts and their militia (and it is theirs) hhave proved the validity of P.M. Abhisit's description of the situation.

The red shirts dug themselves into this. I hope the innocents, who are probably the majority of the demonstrators, go home to their families. But if they provide cover for the terrorists who murdered troops last weekend they bear responsibility. Putting Anupong in charge is a good thing. It will allow the military to use whatever is necessary.

And they should not neglect to identify and deal appropriately with those foreigners who participated in the red shirt rallies and actively supported their terrorist activities. Abhisit's designation of elements within the red shirts is supported by their actions and evidence from the hotel raid.

The reds against 'unarmed troops'? you <deleted>....didn't you hear that the army asked for their abandoned weapons back? 6000 rounds of live ammo, the live ammo that they didn't have according to Abhisit....an anti-aircraft gun...

The soldiers were armed to the teeth....

P.M. Abhisit is a good man. He tried to avoid casualties, he tried to avoid this, but the red shirts pushed it beyond the pale last Saturday, led by deceitful, black-hearted individuals... The military should have conducted this mornings raid from the start.

[BKjohn]

Exactly. What the reds have created is anarchy. It simply can't be tolerated or there is no country.

Rubbish !! they are only copying what they were taught by the Yellow shirts only in a more civilized, considerate and peaceful way.

There is no doubt that these tactics were created by the Yellow shirts a couple of years ago..........where in the hel_l were you, not to have noticed it.

I was in Thailand. There is no comparison, now, really. The reds have gone much further, in the violence, anarchy, and revolution department as Thailand is now on the verge of a civil war.

More civilized ... etc.? Is that the latest Truth Today spin on it? You know there are a lot of stupid people out there, but there are limits.

Yes, yes, yes, we ALL get the connection/rationalization between the red insurgency and the coup and the airport shutdown. It has been repeated like a million times. However, we are here today, dealing with what is happening today. Even if we accept there are root causes, that doesn't mean that the rule of law should simply cave in to violent anarchists (who refuses any kind of peace talks) now, today.

Jingthing, there are some reds here who simply do not want to see any facts, but seem to have been brainwashed to the point of being puppets like those on the street out there with the exception of the leaders of the red who know exactly what is going on. Those on here would not accept the facts if they were to jump up and bite them in the ass.

They are simply repeating the same rubbish about the so called "peaceful" red again and again .. there is not much point in arguing with them they are certifiable

CS the lot of them and get Bangkok back to normal

Edited April 17, 2010 by BKjohn

[webfact]

Anupong convenes meeting of Army commanders

BANGKOK: -- Army Commander-in-Chief Gen Anupong Paochinda Saturday convened a meeting of commanders up from regiment chiefs.

The meeting was held after Prime Minister held a meeting of the Emergency Operations Command, which was attended by Anupong, Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban and other senior officers.

EOC spokesman Col Sansern Kaewkamnerd said Anupong held the meeting after he was appointed the chief of emergency operations to maker preparations for the operations.

-- The Nation 2010-04-17

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[webfact]

TAN Network: Red shirts promise to move into business hubs in the city again on Monday with backups from the provinces coming into Bangkok.

[Jingthing]

"Under instructions from Thaksin"................what proof has this idiot got ? Why are people allowed to print such inflammatory stupid bloody guesswork.............It should NOT be allowed past admin !

I love it. A presumably pro red (based on his posts) suggesting that opinions be approved or disapproved by the mods on this board. Oh, yes, such a principled movement for freedom and democracy.

[animatic]

This is Thailand and yes, I have been here a very long time and I employed staff up country and when it came down to wages, the ministry of work was on my back to make sure minimum wages were paid.

Considering the cost of living up-country and the family units there is no real reason why children should be starving. The strange thing is, there always seems to be enough money around for a TV and for drink, but as you say not for food. Fish and fruit are abandoned and considering that most of these people are rice farmers, you are contradicting yourself here since the price of rice has gone up, so has income.

The main problem is that they all want to live beyond their means and to buy motorcycles and fancy clothes. They borrow money from the ever present money lenders and by the time wages are paid, they have to pay a big chunk of those to the money lender. Gambling is another cause for financial problems of many Isanies , but they can not blame the government for this!

There is a problem I admit with the IQ level because most do not use salt but only fish sauce. It is a medical fact that especially during growth, the brain needs Iodine to develop and when this is missing..... well, the results we see gathered in Bangkok right now. Chulalungkorn University did a study on this along time ago and came up with the same results. But this is not caused by poverty, simply by choice.

Fully agree: the present level of poverty is to a (large?) degree self-inflicted. One big problem is that many if not most "rice farmers" are severely under-educated and susceptible to visions of "the beautiful life" (see: soap operas). They did lots better before the onslaught of big business and modern times consumerism. Thailand was a purely agricultural country until what -- less than 100? -- years ago. And then suddenly, parts of the country got warped into the 20th century. From the time the US used Thailand as a base for the Vietnam war, it didn't take long for the entire mass of Western "greats" like McDonalds, 7-Eleven, Pizzahut and you-name-it to set up shop here. With them came the marketing machines, unleashed on people who hadn't gradually grown up with it and thus hadn't had time to develop any kind of "resistance". The result: what BKjohn describes above. But it goes one step further than that. Thais tend to look at the façade of something and seldom bother to "drill down" to get at the facts. That is why it's so easy for the likes of Thaksin and his ilk to get "messages across".

Better education and making kids develop a critical attitude is where it's at. Teaching farmer kids basic business principles could make agriculture a viable business for many, as opposed to a debt trap. Learning some fundamentals, the national anthem and some of the country's ancient history (good bits only) simply doesn't cut it. Neither does the "being nice" attitude that lets almost anyone pass examns. And hey, I'm not talking about westernizing schools or importing farang ideas/morals...!

However, there are two aspects to that: even if a massive education push were to start today, it would take time to come to fruition. Only at that point would it be truely, totally feasible to run the country based on one man/one vote (and no: I'm not advocation anything else for now -- just to preclude flaming). The second aspect: if the countryside were to experience a better-living upswing, obesity would be quick to follow too

Excellent post.

It is cultural rather than purely structural.

And the last 50 years or so have seen a seas change in the information up country folk can get,

and not understaning the modalities of that communications systems of the last 10 years

has led them to be more manipulatable than they possibly realize.

[hansnoi]

This is Thailand and yes, I have been here a very long time and I employed staff up country and when it came down to wages, the ministry of work was on my back to make sure minimum wages were paid.

Considering the cost of living up-country and the family units there is no real reason why children should be starving. The strange thing is, there always seems to be enough money around for a TV and for drink, but as you say not for food. Fish and fruit are abandoned and considering that most of these people are rice farmers, you are contradicting yourself here since the price of rice has gone up, so has income.

The main problem is that they all want to live beyond their means and to buy motorcycles and fancy clothes. They borrow money from the ever present money lenders and by the time wages are paid, they have to pay a big chunk of those to the money lender. Gambling is another cause for financial problems of many Isanies , but they can not blame the government for this!

There is a problem I admit with the IQ level because most do not use salt but only fish sauce. It is a medical fact that especially during growth, the brain needs Iodine to develop and when this is missing..... well, the results we see gathered in Bangkok right now. Chulalungkorn University did a study on this along time ago and came up with the same results. But this is not caused by poverty, simply by choice.

Fully agree: the present level of poverty is to a (large?) degree self-inflicted. One big problem is that many if not most "rice farmers" are severely under-educated and susceptible to visions of "the beautiful life" (see: soap operas). They did lots better before the onslaught of big business and modern times consumerism. Thailand was a purely agricultural country until what -- less than 100? -- years ago. And then suddenly, parts of the country got warped into the 20th century. From the time the US used Thailand as a base for the Vietnam war, it didn't take long for the entire mass of Western "greats" like McDonalds, 7-Eleven, Pizzahut and you-name-it to set up shop here. With them came the marketing machines, unleashed on people who hadn't gradually grown up with it and thus hadn't had time to develop any kind of "resistance". The result: what BKjohn describes above. But it goes one step further than that. Thais tend to look at the façade of something and seldom bother to "drill down" to get at the facts. That is why it's so easy for the likes of Thaksin and his ilk to get "messages across".

Better education and making kids develop a critical attitude is where it's at. Teaching farmer kids basic business principles could make agriculture a viable business for many, as opposed to a debt trap. Learning some fundamentals, the national anthem and some of the country's ancient history (good bits only) simply doesn't cut it. Neither does the "being nice" attitude that lets almost anyone pass examns. And hey, I'm not talking about westernizing schools or importing farang ideas/morals...!

However, there are two aspects to that: even if a massive education push were to start today, it would take time to come to fruition. Only at that point would it be truely, totally feasible to run the country based on one man/one vote (and no: I'm not advocation anything else for now -- just to preclude flaming). The second aspect: if the countryside were to experience a better-living upswing, obesity would be quick to follow too

The IQ level theory sounds rather dubious to me and reminds me of the infamous measuring of skulls in a black past. But especially the second comment is in line with my own observations in Issan. It also supports my conclusion that there is a big foreign contribution to the present inequalities and social tensions in Thailand. This is not to say that the Thais or Thai governments don't have a responsibility of their own, but awareness of this fact should make many contributors to this forum more modest, less loud and for sure less one sided - whatever colour they may sleep with.

[animatic]

Anupong appointed new emergency operations command chief

BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva announced on TV Friday night that Army Commander-in-Chief Gen Anupong Paochinda has been appointed the new commander of the Emergency Operations Command.

Abhisit said Anupong has replaced Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban for the job.

-- The Nation 2010-04-14

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Surely by sacking his deputy PM from the security job and handing it over to the Army this an admission by the PM that he can no longer control the situation.

In this case, he should stand down and call a new election. The army should then firmly stand behind which ever party is elected to run the country for its term, regardless wether it be Yellow or Red.

No, it just means he shifted people, to put the right butt in the right chair.

Inflexibility would be more troubling, than his ability to make changes as needed.

Oh my god! he made a move...

it must be because he's clueless, so he should stand down...

Nope, don't be foolish, it's a non-starter.

[seri thai]

This is descending in to farce...Just hope there is no further bloodshed, what we are witnessing you couldnt make up and expect people to believe...It doesnt exactly fill you with confidence in the army after what has been seen so far does it?

The farce has been running since 1933 and has outlasted "The Mousetrap" which only opened in Lonon in 1952.

There are however many interesting other parallels as the identity of the culprit is a closely guarded secret and audiences are requested not to discuss the play so as to spoil the fun for others

For those who wish to know the truth the shocking answer can be found in wikipedia

Edited April 17, 2010 by seri thai

[virtualtraveller]

THe situation has become such a state of anarchy, where you can't even rely on the police to undertake a simple arrest operation (perhaps they were bribed ;-), the Army has it's own among the reds firing on their fellow soldiers, it seems that the only thing left to do is have another coup, yes that's right, set the clock back to 2006 and this time do it properly!

Round up the red shirt leaders, firebrand leaders, PT hardliners and execute them, take the Thaksin kids hostage, then say you're sorry and hand the mandate back to the people so that the poor can elect a new set of politicians pledging to work for the country not against it. The coup leaders can meanwhile go into exile in Dubai claiming they did it all for the good of the country.

Sounds ridiculous, I'm not suggesting it, but at this stage it would be the quickest and most effective way to bring stability to the country.

[Skywalker69]

Focus on Thaksin as protest paymaster

http://www.smh.com.au/world/focus-on-thaks...00416-skgu.html

Thanks for the link.

Wonder why Thaksin is so quiet? What about the cancer rumouers?

[Jingthing]

Focus on Thaksin as protest paymaster

http://www.smh.com.au/world/focus-on-thaks...00416-skgu.html

Thanks for the link.

Wonder why Thaksin is so quiet? What about the cancer rumouers?

I think he is quiet now because of the criminal implications against him if the reds fail. All of the red leaders have arrest warrants on them, and if the reds lose, things could get even trickier for Thaksin, with fewer and fewer countries willing to accommodate Mr. Hot Potato. Also he clearly can no longer be politically active from Dubai. Also remember the sniper business is still open to investigation.

Now that the conflict has entered the lethal violence stage, he doesn't want to be seen as openly supporting that, leading that. He won't have a problem if it works, but that would seriously hurt his future if it doesn't work.

Edited April 17, 2010 by Jingthing

[hansnoi]

THe situation has become such a state of anarchy, where you can't even rely on the police to undertake a simple arrest operation (perhaps they were bribed ;-), the Army has it's own among the reds firing on their fellow soldiers, it seems that the only thing left to do is have another coup, yes that's right, set the clock back to 2006 and this time do it properly!

Round up the red shirt leaders, firebrand leaders, PT hardliners and execute them, take the Thaksin kids hostage, then say you're sorry and hand the mandate back to the people so that the poor can elect a new set of politicians pledging to work for the country not against it. The coup leaders can meanwhile go into exile in Dubai claiming they did it all for the good of the country.

Sounds ridiculous, I'm not suggesting it, but at this stage it would be the quickest and most effective way to bring stability to the country.

Ah, i forgot to mention 'Land of Spinners' in a previous post. Very well informed and total reliable sources close to general A. told me that he was very impressed by your bright ideas. ,,Why o why I could not think of this myself", he cried while in tears running to the bathroom.

[Jerrytheyoung]

You take the cake with your dribble

last time I looked there was no famine in Thailand and never has been I know a lot of people from Isaan who work and make decent money, more than able to feed their family. Yes, there are some lazy bums who rather take ja baa and than top themselves blaming everybody else but not themselves of course.

The only reason the reds have to be here is for the leaders to jump on Takki's wagon and they hope for huge rewards - than there are the other gangsters who are making money and enjoy to riot (like the leaders) and the rest have got no clue as to what is really going on but get fed and paid as well. Mind you, most of them have already left and what is left is every thug from Isaan who is here to have a bit of war

Unfortunately here are some facts that you are not aware of;

- Undernutrition is a recognized problem in Thailand.

- The country is indeed at risk of famine.

The most obvious cause of famine will be the looming drought. As water sources disappear there is a real threat of the remaining water resources becoming salinated or tainted with pollution. This isn't due to the politics of the street. It is a fact of life and a real threat.

In respect to undernutrition, the major culprit is poverty and sadly there are a growing number of children in this country, as in the rest of the world, that go to bed hungry and that wake up hungry. Tremendous inroads started to be made in 1996 with the apex of poverty being reduced during the Thaksin era. Please, do not accuse me of being a Thaksin supporter because this is what the numbers were and are. Besides, the turning point for improvement was in 1998 and Thaksin was not even in power. However, the numbers stopped improving at the end of the Thaksin era and it seems they are deteriorating now.

Farangs that live in the resort cities and bangkok are oblivious to the sad reality that Thailand is showing a dismal trend.

When children under the age of 5 are examined, sadly approx. 12% have stunted growth, 9% are underweight and 4% are diagnosed as wasting (i.e. starving to death). At the same time, 10-15% of primary school children are classified as obese.

Think about the implications. It means that the poor are getting so poor they cannot afford food and that the wealthy are getting so wealthy that they are creating a culture of obesity.

Where do these numbers come from? Respected health organizations such as Mahidol University and the U.N. If you don't believe me go and talk to kraisid Tontsirin at Mahidol, which is hardly a hotbed of Thaksin support. Better yet, read his last seminar presentation

http://www.icn2009.com/Presentations/Oct%2...y%20Mode%5D.pdf

Please consider this. If a person does not make enough money to purchase a balanced diet, that person will suffer. Look at the wages earned by people outside of Bangkok. Now look at the cost of food today. The wages have remained static, yet basic food has increased in price over the past year. Rice has seen increases of how many times in the past year? (I believe it is 3X)

How do you expect a poor person to eat?

People can toss all sorts of fancy political theories around or even blame Thaksin if they want, but I believe what is driving alot of the protestors is the that they are tired of the systemic poverty. When you are poor and have nothing, you are more open to people with a message of salvation.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is Thailand and yes, I have been here a very long time and I employed staff up country and when it came down to wages, the ministry of work was on my back to make sure minimum wages were paid.

Considering the cost of living up-country and the family units there is no real reason why children should be starving. The strange thing is, there always seems to be enough money around for a TV and for drink, but as you say not for food. Fish and fruit are abandoned and considering that most of these people are rice farmers, you are contradicting yourself here since the price of rice has gone up, so has income.

The main problem is that they all want to live beyond their means and to buy motorcycles and fancy clothes. They borrow money from the ever present money lenders and by the time wages are paid, they have to pay a big chunk of those to the money lender. Gambling is another cause for financial problems of many Isanies , but they can not blame the government for this!

There is a problem I admit with the IQ level because most do not use salt but only fish sauce. It is a medical fact that especially during growth, the brain needs Iodine to develop and when this is missing..... well, the results we see gathered in Bangkok right now. Chulalungkorn University did a study on this along time ago and came up with the same results. But this is not caused by poverty, simply by choice.

Maybe in town some employees make 5,000TBT or 6,000TBT in Northern Issan. But in the villages.... I know some families with total income of 3,000TBT with 2 young children going to school (have to pay 500TBT for the Elder going in town + uniform + transportation 200TBT village to city) Please use your computer and make a fair budget with 3000TBT and 4 persons .....

The sticky rice is of poor quality and is not a good income....

The Local University- Department of Agriculture- needs more support, needs funds for teaching the farmers: not enough money, not enough teachers (teaching the adults in the evening in the village is at light years with the current possibilities)- In the schools, most of classes comprises 40 to 50 students. irrigation projects are just rhetoric, development of small industries are nearly nil....Nobody takes care of this welcoming and wonderful population.

The problem is not the IQ level, (typical language for supporting the Bangkokian Elite superiority). My adopted eldest son is now in the head of his class (School in town).

In the village where I live part of the year, they cannot offer Fish sauce, the fishes are salted and cooked on firewood (Tha Phanom region salt- no Gas cooker). My in Law overall family (3 married couples + father/Mother = 8 children) shares 3 old motorbikes and 1 "tic-Tac". My wife, when I meet her had only few Blue jeans and a couple of skirts second hand, but proud that her 2 children-she was widowed- are wearing proper clothes. The neighbouring families are also decent people with similar living conditions and wealth.

Gambling: yes on 1000 people maybe 5 are gambling, but most= NO. It means a probable statistic figure far below Bangkok

The problem is that nobody want to invest in this region, because the Elite want to keep those poor blokes under control as workforce in the factories, as maid or even for their entertainment (massage, bar...)- in fact this is a modern form of slavery.

I repeat to the yellowish partisans: I am not a "Thaksinist", I do not protect my "cheerful red leaders" . I am only a man, with social sensitivity and supporting directly the ISSAN PEOPLE -not leaders-, I have been accepted by the village in which I spent a large part of the year by this wonderful population far more intelligent than some arrogant elitists.

I wish for the sake of Thailand that this situation will be solved PEACEFULLY.