Thai Security Forces Split By Protests: Analysts

[Roadman]

the usual red shirt moronic garbage

Nothing valid or useful to say ...

Were you sleeping on pavement while your

leaders stayed in sweet 5 star luxury?

Why did you post an inaccurate and misleading statement? The hotel was not 5*. It was a basic "tourist" hotel equivalent to 2*-3*. Rack rates are between 1500 and 2800 baht, which means that groups can probably get rooms starting as low as 1000 baht.

A 5* like the Hyatt goes from 5800 to 16,000 baht. Look at the rates before you post misleading statements.

The red officials used the hotel to shower, change clothes and to meet in a quiet location to discuss strategy. As has been stated previously, if someone has to be on stage for long periods of time, giving speeches and rallying the protestors, he/she has to have somewhere to go and rest and to meet with organizers. Claims of a luxurious lifestyle are intended to create the image of the leaders living an excessive lifesyle, when that is not the case. It is you that has nothing useful to add.

In respect to the original article, it is a statement of the obvious. The elite Bangkok units were deployed, not conscripts from the North. The government now realizes that it has inadequate numbers of "loyal" units available and is redeploying additional personnel from regiments that are neither seen as red leaning nor are staffed by conscripts. The junior officers and NCOs that believe their careers were stymied because they were not from the right units or regions are not helping the situation. This isn't just a political problem, but is a real human resources management crisis. It is the equivalent of a work to rule situation with some of the units.

Let's just stay within the proper context of the situation and stop with the invention of scenarios that are not valid or applicable. It may be hard for those that cannot understand what is happening, but at its core it is the equivalent of a labour conflict. Management was unprepared for the events.

Got a picture of ANY leader sleeping on the ground? The room pictured was described as being that of a guard - I guess that they don't sleep rough either. And I would be hugely surprised if this cosy little group were paying any bills, room and board being supplied by their lord and master.

In respect of troop "disloyalty", do you have ANY proof or should it be prefaced IMO? I agree with only one of your statements, that management was unprepared. They swallowed the "peaceful protester" crap and walked into a well planned ambush complete with an assassination squad for the C.O. and foreign mercenaries.

We are talking about the Royal Thai Army, and there might be red radicals talking about big changes, but that doesn't sit at all well with the Isaan thais that I know. They have one allegiance, and the troops will be getting a dam_ned good reminder of where that lies.

Well done that person for expressing the views of all of the Isaan people I live and socialise with including Monks - 'thugs' and 'bad bugga's' is what they describe the leadership as. And he's an Aussie... .

The Royal visit / blessing has already been given to the defeated Royal troops of Bangkok, by Her Very Royal Highness from what was supposed to be nothing more than a battons and tear gas run. It should be well remembered by all Thai's who their very first allegiance is to, especially when serious civil strife is about to go down.

Thailand ready for democracy? Is a 1 day old baby ready to eat solids? It was sorta there in the first days of Thaksin, but has been wrong and for too long. A line needs drawn in the sand and a few festers surgically removed by what Thailand needs right now in a coalition of the Democatic Party complete with the added stitched baggage and the Army with its sorted loyal brigades to the Royal Family.

[geriatrickid]

Well done that person for expressing the views of all of the Isaan people I live and socialise with including Monks - 'thugs' and 'bad bugga's' is what they describe the leadership as. And he's an Aussie... .

The Royal visit / blessing has already been given to the defeated Royal troops of Bangkok, by Her Very Royal Highness from what was supposed to be nothing more than a battons and tear gas run. It should be well remembered by all Thai's who their very first allegiance is to, especially when serious civil strife is about to go down.

Thailand ready for democracy? Is a 1 day old baby ready to eat solids? It was sorta there in the first days of Thaksin, but has been wrong and for too long. A line needs drawn in the sand and a few festers surgically removed by what Thailand needs right now in a coalition of the Democatic Party complete with the added stitched baggage and the Army with its sorted loyal brigades to the Royal Family.

Defeated troops? That's a bit dramatic. Hardly a defeat. It was merely a failed operation. A defeat would have meant a retreat from the initial positions. The government is still in power, and the military is still in its initial positions. If anything, the closing of the bridge assembly point can be considered a small success for the authorities even if the Reds willingly withdrew.

Do not make the assumption on allegiances. Respect and love can exist in harmony alongside the desire for change. If you were really in touch with Thai views, you would know that some subjects not discussed openly particularly in the presence of a farang. There are statements that will be made in public and there will be statements made in private only amongst very close and trusted friends and family members.

I am unaware of any official blessing being given. There was a visit to some of the injured soldiers. I believe that the Royal family has offered 50,000 baht to the families of the deceased. The government is currently considering an aid package for those that are or were injured.

It is not up to you decide whether Thailand is ready or not for its version of democracy. Thailand is not a nation of children. What we see in Thailand is often very different than what exists. This is a characteristic that both enthralls and frustrates many foreigners.

[Publicus]

Deleted by Publicus.

Edited April 18, 2010 by Publicus

[Publicus]

<<snip>>

Defeated troops? That's a bit dramatic. Hardly a defeat. It was merely a failed operation. A defeat would have meant a retreat from the initial positions. The government is still in power, and the military is still in its initial positions. If anything, the closing of the bridge assembly point can be considered a small success for the authorities even if the Reds willingly withdrew.

<<snip>>

Hopefully without getting too much into semantics, the failed operation was a defeat for the supposedly trained and disciplined army vs a somewhat organized and partially armed civilian mob at a strategic site. The army's mission was to clear the mob out and away - in other words to subdue and drive out the mob, to regain control of the previously unoccupied ground on which the mob stood and possessed, and to regain control of the total situation. The army failed. Anytime an army fails in a specified mission to reclaim ground previously neutral or lost to the opponent - in this case civilian militants - what in fact has occurred, failure or defeat?

If the US Army in Afghanistan sent forth a superior force from a particular strategic military facility but failed to clear menacing civilian militants from from carrying out their plan at the front gates of the particular military facility, and the superior US forces and the militants engaged, but the supposedly superior US forces had to withdraw to the facility, would that be a failure or a defeat? It would be both. It would be a miserable situation for the US garrison and for the US commanders on the scene both inside and outside who rightfully would get their &lt;deleted&gt; burned, and burned severely.

However, TiT. The inept Suthep and the Hamlet do-nothing Gen Anupong were in command. Suthep got fried for political reasons, Gen Anupong is now standing around holding the sack of shyt PM Abhisit handed to him. Equivalent thing here.

Edited April 18, 2010 by Publicus

[jfchandler]

Someone call a doctor, quick...

The poster here is obviously suffering from a massive overdose of B.S.

Seriously, man, all of any color isn't anything...except in your little world....

As you rightly point out, all the yellows are liars. So what. Let them carry on with it because they are proved liars again and again and lose credibility.

[Rinrada]

According to "her indoors" there is indeed a split and now there is 2 or more army factions...honestly &lt;deleted&gt;

At least Abbi got rid of that moron "Thuggi "..and sure looks like hes trying for the upper hand again with Gen.Ani-p (whos more with it)...dear dear Thai politics ...fun city...

[retarius]

Go Grandpops.go....

Agree 100% and I cannot understand these right wing authoritarian types who fill these boards with their yellow lies based on Abhisit's propaganda...as they say, right wing nuts never let facts get in the way of an excuse of a massacre....

I agree. Could you go with him?

So all yellows are liars.

Well what's your comment on the deliberate open lies told to the reds many times by jatuporn and his clan?

I think that much of what comes out of politicians' mouths are lies, deceptions, misinformation, spin call it what you will....it's part of modern politics.

If you are asking me whether everything that a yellow says is a lie, then the answer is clearly not...he might for example say, this cup of coffee is hot, and if it is indeed hot, then he has told the truth....truth is the first casualty of war, and we heard Abhisit say that no live rounds were fired by the army...it was a lie...he calls the red-shirts terrorists...another lie...this is propaganda, and since all the red short media have been closed down, then the preponderance of the lies come from the government and the yellow terrorists who put them there...

Do the reds tell the pure unvarnished truth, every time....no I doubt it...they have propaganda of their own and some I'm sure, some ghastly skeletons in their closet....but the Reds want an election to be held becuase they were disenfranchised after the coup....it is an entirely reasonable request in a democracy, and they should be able to demonstrate about to without being killed by the army....

I suppose I am aghast at the limited intelligence of the bloodthirsty farangs posting here that eat Abhisit's lying shit so willingly...would it really be so bad if the rural poor actually got a living wage for their labours in the fields? would the world come to an end if the elite only got 98% of the economic cake instead of 100%?

[Ricardo]

... <snip for brevity> ...

I suppose I am aghast at the limited intelligence of the bloodthirsty farangs posting here that eat Abhisit's lying shit so willingly...would it really be so bad if the rural poor actually got a living wage for their labours in the fields? would the world come to an end if the elite only got 98% of the economic cake instead of 100%?

So anyone posting here, who stands up for the legitimate government of the country against a month-long 'peaceful-protest' by perhaps 30,000 people, must be "bloodthirsty farangs" of "limited intelligence" who want to grind down the poor, and "eat Abhisit's lying shit" ?

Lovely attempt at spin & flaming, from a relative-Newbie, but not necessarily correct. Sort of like 'true-democracy', in fact.

You should know (from reading TV) that many support improving their lot, but that we're less-than-impressed with the Red-Shirts' leadership, especially the absent-paymaster whom we suspect of blocking a real offer to hold new-elections one year earlier.

Meanwhile PM-Abhisit has made Thaksin's 30-Baht hospital-plan free, a fine example of grinding them down, and is trying to restructure the rural-loan scheme inherited from a previous-administration, another fine example. Wake Up !

With examples like that, the longer PM-Abhisit stays in-power, the better-off they'll all be, which of course is why DL & his local-leaders are so increasingly desperate to achieve their "new Thai state" at once, whatever the cost in lives (poor-people or military) and economic-damage to the country !

Edited April 19, 2010 by Ricardo

[dominique355]

Why do some many people want to make us believe that this is a class war or a struggle of the underprivileged North East against the rich and powerful middle and upper class in Bangkok?

Is this because they are in desperate need to justify their unjustifiable act? Or is it because they want to disguise what this is really about?

Well, it's not a fight of the poor against the rich.

It's not a fight of the farmers against the middle class.

It's not a fight between the North East and Bangkok.

It's a fight of a convicted criminal on the run with billions to spend and his followers who are power addicted and have no scruples to use and abuse the poor, the farmer, the North Eastern for their own personal thirst and hunger for power. Just look at their political background and how often they have changes side when a change of side promised more power (and money).

How can 15'000 desperados and criminals wanted by the police make us believe that this is about democracy? This has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with democracy. In a true democracy the majority rules and the minority waits for its chance at the next elections. In a true democracy their is talking, negotiating, compromise. None of this is coming from the Red Shirts (or from the Yellow Shirts for that matter).

But it has shown us one more time the total incompetence of both the police and the military.

The police, who should be responsible to upholding law and order is just a laughing stock.

And I shudder at the thought that this army is supposed to defend the country against and outside aggressor.

The army should never be used against its own people. the army is for defending the country, obeying strictly orders from the political leaders. Nothing qualifies the military for any political role. Military have learned how to give orders and obey, but that's not democracy. So send the military back into their barracks, all of them.

Law and order in the country is the job of the Police. If they cannot do that job, what for do we have a police? Might as well get rid of them.

[dominique355]

Go Grandpops.go....

Agree 100% and I cannot understand these right wing authoritarian types who fill these boards with their yellow lies based on Abhisit's propaganda...as they say, right wing nuts never let facts get in the way of an excuse of a massacre....

I agree. Could you go with him?

So all yellows are liars.

Well what's your comment on the deliberate open lies told to the reds many times by jatuporn and his clan?

...

Do the reds tell the pure unvarnished truth, every time....no I doubt it...they have propaganda of their own and some I'm sure, some ghastly skeletons in their closet....but the Reds want an election to be held becuase they were disenfranchised after the coup....it is an entirely reasonable request in a democracy, and they should be able to demonstrate about to without being killed by the army....

...

The Reds were disenfranchised after the coup? What exactly do you mean by this? The massive vote buying and cheating of their political leaders in 2007? Something which disqualified them from being active in politics, and now they want it back? Is that what you had in mind?

If they Reds had just wanted to demonstrate, they have had ample opportunity to do that. What they do now is blackmailing a city and chaos and anarchy, not political demonstration. They had their chance to get heard and they blew it. End of story, go home!

[hammered]

... <snip for brevity> ...

I suppose I am aghast at the limited intelligence of the bloodthirsty farangs posting here that eat Abhisit's lying shit so willingly...would it really be so bad if the rural poor actually got a living wage for their labours in the fields? would the world come to an end if the elite only got 98% of the economic cake instead of 100%?

So anyone posting here, who stands up for the legitimate government of the country against a month-long 'peaceful-protest' by perhaps 30,000 people, must be "bloodthirsty farangs" of "limited intelligence" who want to grind down the poor, and "eat Abhisit's lying shit" ?

Lovely attempt at spin & flaming, from a relative-Newbie, but not necessarily correct. Sort of like 'true-democracy', in fact.

You should know (from reading TV) that many support improving their lot, but that we're less-than-impressed with the Red-Shirts' leadership, especially the absent-paymaster whom we suspect of blocking a real offer to hold new-elections one year earlier.

Meanwhile PM-Abhisit has made Thaksin's 30-Baht hospital-plan free, a fine example of grinding them down, and is trying to restructure the rural-loan scheme inherited from a previous-administration, another fine example. Wake Up !

With examples like that, the longer PM-Abhisit stays in-power, the better-off they'll all be, which of course is why DL & his local-leaders are so increasingly desperate to achieve their "new Thai state" at once, whatever the cost in lives (poor-people or military) and economic-damage to the country !

Actually the Sarayud government made the 30 baht scheme free after realising it cost mnore to administer the 30 baht than the 30 baht paid. By the way take a look at the money and especially private hospitals, who owned and bought them and why loads of doctors left the financially ruined government sdctor for the private one to enable a boost in cosmetic etc surgery. Nice business move

Could tell you the one about who gained a virtual drug monopoly too after the drug war but ..... (hastens to add so could nearly any Thai person)

Everyone's a winner boy

[geriatrickid]

The Reds were disenfranchised after the coup? What exactly do you mean by this? The massive vote buying and cheating of their political leaders in 2007? Something which disqualified them from being active in politics, and now they want it back? Is that what you had in mind?

If they Reds had just wanted to demonstrate, they have had ample opportunity to do that. What they do now is blackmailing a city and chaos and anarchy, not political demonstration. They had their chance to get heard and they blew it. End of story, go home!

There is no anarchy. Thailand is functioning and outside of the specific area where the protest is located, Thailand is no different today than it was last year from the perspective of law and order. The government is functioning and the people are going about their lives.

I do not understand your point. First you say they wanted to demonstrate they could have and now that they do, they should not. The protests in Bangkok are taking place because the Reds brought the action to where it would be taken seriously. Do you think the government would have paid attention if the protests were in Khon Kaen or Chiang Mai?

Vote buying and financial improprieties are wrong. It has occurred on the Red side, but it also occurred for the other political parties as well. The political financing system in Thailand is rotten to the core no matter the political stripe.

[animatic]

Go Grandpops.go....

Agree 100% and I cannot understand these right wing authoritarian types who fill these boards with their yellow lies based on Abhisit's propaganda...as they say, right wing nuts never let facts get in the way of an excuse of a massacre....

I agree. Could you go with him?

So all yellows are liars.

Well what's your comment on the deliberate open lies told to the reds many times by jatuporn and his clan?

In free speech, there is nothing wrong with lying.

As you rightly point out, all the yellows are liars. So what. Let them carry on with it because they are proved liars again and again and lose credibility.

So much credibility have they lost that they have to hide in an Army Camp. Remember other recent (elected) PMs being protected by the Army? Flown around by the Army?

They have also brought scathing scornful reports by all international media on themselves and back tracked on numerous occasions.

They have encouraged a mob to try and intimidate the Army into KILLING red protesters. With no policies or attepmpts to solve anything, the PAD is back to demonstrate just how unfairly Abhisit was put into power and how uneven handed is the definition of Mobster and terrorist.

This mob at the Army base brought the country to its knees and members of the Government were at the airport with them. Now, they have called them into protect them from the rest of the country.

Lie on I say. It's done them more harm than good.

Lying is moraly wrong even if it is allowed under free speech.

But insurection is not allowed, nor is hate speech that injures others.

As well as telling lines in many instances such as Holocaust Denial.

What the reds have been saying on PTV comes under the heading of 'unacceptable free speech'.

Oh they are free to say it,

but the public airwaves need not export it or support it; under coercion of volition.

[BNZ]

 

In free speech, there is nothing wrong with lying.

As you rightly point out, all the yellows are liars. So what. Let them carry on with it because they are proved liars again and again and lose credibility.

So much credibility have they lost that they have to hide in an Army Camp. Remember other recent (elected) PMs being protected by the Army? Flown around by the Army?

They have also brought scathing scornful reports by all international media on themselves and back tracked on numerous occasions.

They have encouraged a mob to try and intimidate the Army into KILLING red protesters. With no policies or attepmpts to solve anything, the PAD is back to demonstrate just how unfairly Abhisit was put into power and how uneven handed is the definition of Mobster and terrorist.

This mob at the Army base brought the country to its knees and members of the Government were at the airport with them. Now, they have called them into protect them from the rest of the country.

Lie on I say. It's done them more harm than good.

So we can assume that everything you write is a lie, based on your ethics as stated.

Take it easy on the Cocoa ?