Korean Newspaper Criticizes Thaksin

[neverdie]

The South Korean diplomats are going to wish their government never opened their ignorant mouths after the next Thai election.

A real diplomatic blunder by the South Koreans.

Do you actually write your own material or do you have a pet monkey that does the keyboard work. Seriously, now your making me laugh.

Stop stalking me neverdie or im going to have to quote that embarrassing "tender" post of yours and publicly humiliate you again

Go right ahead, be my guest, it doesnt publically humiliate me one little bit. Tender is exactly one of the words I would use to describe the state of Political affairs in Thailand at the moment.

You really need to get a grip on yourself but not in your usual way

[Publicus]

It's in the news today that a past coup general in Argentina, Reynalde Bignone, was just sentenced to 25 years in prison. I'd mentioned that the Korean coup leader of 1979, Gen Chun Doo Hwan had been sentenced to life imprisonment following S Korea's 1992 first free, open and fair election after the long awful period of military rule and dictatorship.

A central part of Thailand's problem is that it hasn't ever done any such thing to coupmakers nor will it ever call coupmakers to book.

[quiksilva]

For instance??

For instance, the BBC, CNN, even al-Jazeera - large news organisations with huge international followings that we don't seem to get any representation. What a coincidence that many of them write in tones that are sometimes disbelieving of the Thai government's true intentions. All we do see is the Nation (groan), the odd quote from AFP, along with one unverified report from a Korean journal instantly making banner headlines on Thaivisa because it is critical of Thaksin.

"Thailand Propaganda Clippings" is a better name for this subforum. And like I said, reading the Nation, what else can we expect from "The Nation Thaivisa"? But please let's not pretend that what appears here is a general consensus and unbiased representation of world opinion or Thai opinion.

Maybe yes, maybe no. But it certainly appears to represent a majority of ThaiVisa members, judging from the pro- vs anti-Red posts, as well as the several polls taken by members, not by The Nation or the ThaiVisa mods.

Maybe you should find a forum more amenable to your views, something along the lines of the US Tea Party's forums. I see no evidence of moderators here deleting any of the minority Red-view posts, such as yours.

In the meantime the Reds themselves are not at all respectful of free speech. Journalists covering the rallies are now required to wear green armbands reading "Dissolve the National Assembly."

According the news this morning the Reds even roughed up a member of the media last night when they wanted to search his bags!

What right do they have to search anyone's bags? Let alone rough someone up or continue to break the law?

[clockworkorange]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thailand-Run...se-t357883.html

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Anti-govt-Pr...ab-t357881.html

Lets see if either of those make it to the News Clipping Section and are emailed to all members or if they just end up closed/deleted.

I advise you not to discuss moderation in public.

Further I'd like to clarify we have a temporary policy in General forum which you should read

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Temporary-Po...al-t355369.html

Admin

I think that moderation is not the issue here - I for one agree that it is necessary, and that it enforces decorum, and improves the experience for all by ensuring that threads stay on topic. Before TV, I used to post in an unmoderated forum (soc.culture.thai) that became so filled with clutter on US politics and vulgarity that I gave up on it.

The issue here that I suspect that Chunky1 is alluding to is that we mere mortals can't post new threads into this Thai News Clippings forum, and all we read here is material of a distinctly yellow bias, such as the post that you made that was hearsay and has not yet been verified, but was posted nonetheless, complete with a red banner headline, simply because it denounced Thaksin. All we see here of a political nature are the usual bellicose anti-red quotes from the Nation. You only occasionally post international news clippings, most of which come from a single source: AFP. All the news clippings that are quoted here are carefully filtered - showing us only those that denounce one side, hardly ever both, and never the other. The general forum, previously an avenue for posts intended for News Clippings, is now closed to political debate, so News Clippings content is largely personally selected by you alone, and its contents limited to material that supports your own opinion. I mean, we are all grown ups able to make up our own minds about things, so why not make TV News Clippings a one-stop-shop for people of all political opinions, while of course remaining within the law?

So, you see, it is not moderation that is under question here. Why the bias? Noting that this is "the Nation Thaivisa", and that the Nation is clearly biased. does TV have the same political agenda?

Edited April 21, 2010 by clockworkorange

[animatic]

The South Korean diplomats are going to wish their government never opened their ignorant mouths after the next Thai election.

A real diplomatic blunder by the South Koreans.

Do you actually write your own material or do you have a pet monkey that does the keyboard work. Seriously, now your making me laugh.

Stop stalking me neverdie or im going to have to quote that embarrassing "tender" post of yours and publicly humiliate you again

Ah, so you admit to trying to "publicly humiliate" neverdie?

That is also called flaming.

His comment about your post at top is not without several merits.

[Publicus]

For instance??

For instance, the BBC, CNN, even al-Jazeera - large news organisations with huge international followings that we don't seem to get any representation. What a coincidence that many of them write in tones that are sometimes disbelieving of the Thai government's true intentions. All we do see is the Nation (groan), the odd quote from AFP, along with one unverified report from a Korean journal instantly making banner headlines on Thaivisa because it is critical of Thaksin.

"Thailand Propaganda Clippings" is a better name for this subforum. And like I said, reading the Nation, what else can we expect from "The Nation Thaivisa"? But please let's not pretend that what appears here is a general consensus and unbiased representation of world opinion or Thai opinion.

Maybe yes, maybe no. But it certainly appears to represent a majority of ThaiVisa members, judging from the pro- vs anti-Red posts, as well as the several polls taken by members, not by The Nation or the ThaiVisa mods.

Maybe you should find a forum more amenable to your views, something along the lines of the US Tea Party's forums. I see no evidence of moderators here deleting any of the minority Red-view posts, such as yours.

In the meantime the Reds themselves are not at all respectful of free speech. Journalists covering the rallies are now required to wear green armbands reading "Dissolve the National Assembly."

According the news this morning the Reds even roughed up a member of the media last night when they wanted to search his bags!

What right do they have to search anyone's bags? Let alone rough someone up or continue to break the law?

Redshirts at Centerpoint have extorted money from me to pass through their lines. Given their reputation and the number and appearance of the Redshirt extortionists, I wasn't going to try to find out what might happen if I said no. (I haven't been anywhere near the area for more than a week now.) The Wild West has made its way to Thailand.

Edited April 21, 2010 by Publicus

[animatic]

Nobody seems to comment on the fact that Thaksin employs many public relations firms, especially in the US, to spread his lies and propaganda in the West. This is bound to have an effect and in fact DOES have an effect on the way the current Thai situation is viewed by Western media unfortunately. Much of the media is happy to be spoon fed by Thaksin lobbyists and the Thai government is lamentably bad at countering his lies.

Anyone with any intelligence and capable of logical thought who has lived here for any length of time, taking a look from inside Thailand in a balanced way at what has gone on here since the time Thaksin became more and more greedy, arrogant and dictatorial, must come to the conclusion that his conviction was well deserved, should be followed by more charges and that he should never again be allowed to exercise his evil - yes evil - control over Thailand.

Very fine post and well thought out.

Much of the red apologia we see on TVF is coming either directly from Thaksin's PR / PM departments,

or has inspired 'real people' who have bought into the tale being told, because it dovetails to their personal prejudices.

So either we fight the good fight against 'Spin', or 'The Lie Writ Bold And Often',

or lie back, have another beer, and let it all go pear shaped before our eyes.

The latter is ill advised.

[animatic]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thailand-Run...se-t357883.html

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Anti-govt-Pr...ab-t357881.html

Lets see if either of those make it to the News Clipping Section and are emailed to all members or if they just end up closed/deleted.

I advise you not to discuss moderation in public.

Further I'd like to clarify we have a temporary policy in General forum which you should read

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Temporary-Po...al-t355369.html

Admin

I think that moderation is not the issue here - I for one agree that it is necessary, and that it enforces decorum, and improves the experience for all by ensuring that threads stay on topic. Before TV, I used to post in an unmoderated forum (soc.culture.thai) that became so filled with clutter on US politics and vulgarity that I gave up on it.

The issue here that I suspect that Chunky1 is alluding to is that we mere mortals can't post new threads into this Thai News Clippings forum, and all we read here is material of a distinctly yellow bias, such as the post that you made that was hearsay and has not yet been verified, but was posted nonetheless, complete with a red banner headline, simply because it denounced Thaksin. All we see here of a political nature are the usual bellicose anti-red quotes from the Nation. You only occasionally post international news clippings, most of which come from a single source: AFP. All the news clippings that are quoted here are carefully filtered - showing us only those that denounce one side, hardly ever both, and never the other. The general forum, previously an avenue for posts intended for News Clippings, is now closed to political debate, so News Clippings content is largely personally selected by you alone, and its contents limited to material that supports your own opinion. I mean, we are all grown ups able to make up our own minds about things, so why not make TV News Clippings a one-stop-shop for people of all political opinions, while of course remaining within the law?

So, you see, it is not moderation that is under question here. Why the bias? Noting that this is "the Nation Thaivisa", and that the Nation is clearly biased. does TV have the same political agenda?

I don't find this the case.

I think it is just easier to find stuff contra Thaksin than pro.

[geriatrickid]

Nobody seems to comment on the fact that Thaksin employs many public relations firms, especially in the US, to spread his lies and propaganda in the West. This is bound to have an effect and in fact DOES have an effect on the way the current Thai situation is viewed by Western media unfortunately. Much of the media is happy to be spoon fed by Thaksin lobbyists and the Thai government is lamentably bad at countering his lies.

Anyone with any intelligence and capable of logical thought who has lived here for any length of time, taking a look from inside Thailand in a balanced way at what has gone on here since the time Thaksin became more and more greedy, arrogant and dictatorial, must come to the conclusion that his conviction was well deserved, should be followed by more charges and that he should never again be allowed to exercise his evil - yes evil - control over Thailand.

Please identify these firms. You state it is a fact. Please substantiate your statement.

Thank you.

[RussellHantz]

Ah, so you admit to trying to "publicly humiliate" neverdie?

no need , hes seems fully capable of doing that without anyones help

"tender"

Edited April 21, 2010 by RussellHantz

[clockworkorange]

I don't find this the case.

I think it is just easier to find stuff contra Thaksin than pro.

Well I guess that demonstrates that you only read the news that appears here. If you look beyond the Nation, you will find a myriad articles that present other points of view.

[Publicus]

It would also be interesting to hear what Chinese leaders are thinking.

The Chinese cut short the Avatar movie showings, even though people were enthusiastically lined up all over the country to see it multiple times - as Avatar shows how an oppressed minority, if it's focused enough, can repel the full might of an entrenched military machine. Message from Chinese politburo to Tibetans: Don't watch that movie!

Similarly, the Chinese leaders would not want the lesson of Reds in Bkk to be broadcast widely as it highlights class divisions - between haves and have-nots, country bumkins mobilizing and causing havoc in a big city. Such concepts spook the Chinese leadership. Plus, they're reluctant to criticize T, as he's Chinese descent. Sorry for being off-topic, as this thread relates to Korea.

Talked to Chinese colleagues... they know more about what's going on than an average Thai Visa member...

So you say. Apparently the special and insightful supposed information is privileged and will remain secret, confidential and exclusive to only the selected few. Why?

[neverdie]

The South Korean diplomats are going to wish their government never opened their ignorant mouths after the next Thai election.

A real diplomatic blunder by the South Koreans.

Do you actually write your own material or do you have a pet monkey that does the keyboard work. Seriously, now your making me laugh.

Stop stalking me neverdie or im going to have to quote that embarrassing "tender" post of yours and publicly humiliate you again

Ah, so you admit to trying to "publicly humiliate" neverdie?

That is also called flaming.

His comment about your post at top is not without several merits.

Seriously animatic, if Mr Hantz thinks I am humiliated by such a thing, sobeit(sic), clearly his level of understanding about this entire political situation is rather limited. He seems to be only able to sprout off some kind of brainless pro-thaksin chants. I have suggested previously there is something suspicious about his motives here at thaivisa.

Anyway, tender times in deed.

[Publicus]

After glancing at one or two of the posts who anyway reads the guy?

[RussellHantz]

I have suggested previously there is something suspicious about his motives here at thaivisa.

Anyway, tender times in deed.

[Publicus]

It would also be interesting to hear what Chinese leaders are thinking.

The Chinese cut short the Avatar movie showings, even though people were enthusiastically lined up all over the country to see it multiple times - as Avatar shows how an oppressed minority, if it's focused enough, can repel the full might of an entrenched military machine. Message from Chinese politburo to Tibetans: Don't watch that movie!

Similarly, the Chinese leaders would not want the lesson of Reds in Bkk to be broadcast widely as it highlights class divisions - between haves and have-nots, country bumkins mobilizing and causing havoc in a big city. Such concepts spook the Chinese leadership. Plus, they're reluctant to criticize T, as he's Chinese descent. Sorry for being off-topic, as this thread relates to Korea.

Talked to Chinese colleagues... they know more about what's going on than an average Thai Visa member...

So you say. Apparently the special and insightful supposed information is privileged and will remain secret, confidential and exclusive to only the selected few. Why?

Was just saying that the Thai situation is very extensively covered by the Chinese media daily for quite some time now. Nothing more.

Thai-Chinese media in in the country may well be doing a good job of covering and presenting a multi dimensional understanding of the complexities of the situation, so I would guess you're referring to that particular media.

The state owned, operated and controlled media of the People's Republic of China however present the "Thai problem" as the problem of having democracy, and as related to the "democracy problem" that exists in this region of the world, Taiwan especially, but generally to include Singapore, Philippines, Japan, S Korea etc. The "threat" democracies surrounding the PRC and supposedly pose to it is all that the population of the PRC know of the events and developments in Thailand. Now we're talking censorship.

[animatic]

I don't find this the case.

I think it is just easier to find stuff contra Thaksin than pro.

Well I guess that demonstrates that you only read the news that appears here. If you look beyond the Nation, you will find a myriad articles that present other points of view.

Arbitrary comment. I didn't say Impossible and I didn't say I couldn't, I just said easier.

Of course the un-biased veracity of a columnist or blogger is also an issue.

Edited April 21, 2010 by animatic

[scorecard]

Nobody seems to comment on the fact that Thaksin employs many public relations firms, especially in the US, to spread his lies and propaganda in the West. This is bound to have an effect and in fact DOES have an effect on the way the current Thai situation is viewed by Western media unfortunately. Much of the media is happy to be spoon fed by Thaksin lobbyists and the Thai government is lamentably bad at countering his lies.

Anyone with any intelligence and capable of logical thought who has lived here for any length of time, taking a look from inside Thailand in a balanced way at what has gone on here since the time Thaksin became more and more greedy, arrogant and dictatorial, must come to the conclusion that his conviction was well deserved, should be followed by more charges and that he should never again be allowed to exercise his evil - yes evil - control over Thailand.

Please identify these firms. You state it is a fact. Please substantiate your statement.

Thank you.

The PR / lobbiest firms thaksin employs have been named quite some time ago.

[Publicus]

Nobody seems to comment on the fact that Thaksin employs many public relations firms, especially in the US, to spread his lies and propaganda in the West. This is bound to have an effect and in fact DOES have an effect on the way the current Thai situation is viewed by Western media unfortunately. Much of the media is happy to be spoon fed by Thaksin lobbyists and the Thai government is lamentably bad at countering his lies.

Anyone with any intelligence and capable of logical thought who has lived here for any length of time, taking a look from inside Thailand in a balanced way at what has gone on here since the time Thaksin became more and more greedy, arrogant and dictatorial, must come to the conclusion that his conviction was well deserved, should be followed by more charges and that he should never again be allowed to exercise his evil - yes evil - control over Thailand.

Please identify these firms. You state it is a fact. Please substantiate your statement.

Thank you.

The PR / lobbiest firms thaksin employs have been named quite some time ago.

Yes, it's been a long time since anyone in Bangkok to include media have mentioned or discussed the Thaksin big bucks global PR machine in this way, but I specificly recall Edelman Public Relations Worldwide in Washington as being employed by Thaksin to try to spruce up his rotten image and name globally, and in the United States especially. Ken Adelman is a former Bush (the son) defense and foreign policy official, a neoconservative who pushed hard for the invasion of Iraq, then as things went south joined other necons to turn against Bush and the war - the proverbial rats deserting the sinking ship. (Edelman teamed with certain other leading neocons to endorse Obama in 2008 so I guess it's better some of the neocons see the light than not. )

I should send an email to Edelmen Worldwide to see if they still take on lost cause clients and to find out whatever became of their impossible task of improving Thaksin's lousy name and rep anywhere in the world in any way whatsoever, but I doubt I'd get any response or reply . After all, we already know about Montenegro, Honduras, Nicaragua, Fiji, Tonga Toga Bonzo (or where ever) etc etc.

Edited April 21, 2010 by Publicus

[aras]

south korean news paper doesn't give a dam_n about the situation in thailand. they are just scared for their own asses.

[kissdani]

I would also like to add, that Korea has a long and proud history of organised civil protest particularly by unions. One could say that the little man has his voice in Korea and it is achieved by removing his labour from the table.

...

Compare this to Suthep's pitiful efforts in Pattaya and ever since, and no wonder people really do wonder why Thailand even bothers with a law enforcement group like the Thai police? They would be better off subcontracting the riot control to outside contractors.

You mean Thailand should hire some professional from South Korea?

Negotiation South Korean style:

The anti us beef protest got also a heavy crackdown and the South Korea democracy version is a very different one from the western democracy and not a parade example for a free society without any tensions.

The article in the that Korean newspaper or the comments by Lee Myung-bak are actually not much about the situation in Thailand but are dictated by the coming regional elections in South Korea. As part of the election campaign the situation in Thailand is taken as a bogeyman.

The unrest in Thailand is of course noticed by the South Korean media, but surely not in full depth and more similar to the here criticized semiprofessional BBC reports.

Thailand hasn't gone bankrupt by Thaksins populist policies and it isn't the reason that Thailand is in a in a virtual state of civil war as the article describes it.

Lee Myung-bak policies don't include much welfare programs and he needed to 'bitch' about the offers of the opposition party. So he points at Thailand - 'look that is what you get with populism'.

But populist policies are more or less the offer of all political parties in Thailand and the red shirts are not in the street because they are missing the free handouts and welfare spendings of the Thaksin days, like the Korean newspaper argue.

Lee Myung-bak facing also street protest and strong opposition against his government. The 2mb out protesters also claim that democracy came to an end in South Korea.

But their motivation is more close to the PAD arguments, if it can be compared at all. They us-beef protest used BSE/MCD as angst card and have been in the main nothing more than anti free trade protests, against globalization, all based on a strong nationalism. That is also what the union protests are about.

Same as Lee Myung-bak in South Korea was it Thaksin in Thailand who did all the free trade agreements and was heavy criticized by the Democrats in the parliament and later by the PAD street protests.

I am sure that if we had now still the same situation like in 2008, with the PAD unions protesting in the street, Lee Myung-bak would have no problem to twist that to a pro- Thaksin argument and against the civil disturbers who derail a prosper economic development.

[anotherpeter]

I just read the first article regarding the protests in a newspaper (local or international) that ONLY reported the facts, without opinions.

Nothing exciting about the article itself, except that there was no bias. It was just facts on the situation.

At least I didn't see any bias, maybe someone else might read it differently.

http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-new...00421-sssi.html

[Chunky1]

:D :D :D

[Siam Simon]

Nobody seems to comment on the fact that Thaksin employs many public relations firms, especially in the US, to spread his lies and propaganda in the West. This is bound to have an effect and in fact DOES have an effect on the way the current Thai situation is viewed by Western media unfortunately. Much of the media is happy to be spoon fed by Thaksin lobbyists and the Thai government is lamentably bad at countering his lies.

Anyone with any intelligence and capable of logical thought who has lived here for any length of time, taking a look from inside Thailand in a balanced way at what has gone on here since the time Thaksin became more and more greedy, arrogant and dictatorial, must come to the conclusion that his conviction was well deserved, should be followed by more charges and that he should never again be allowed to exercise his evil - yes evil - control over Thailand.

Very fine post and well thought out.

Much of the red apologia we see on TVF is coming either directly from Thaksin's PR / PM departments,

or has inspired 'real people' who have bought into the tale being told, because it dovetails to their personal prejudices.

So either we fight the good fight against 'Spin', or 'The Lie Writ Bold And Often',

or lie back, have another beer, and let it all go pear shaped before our eyes.

The latter is ill advised.

So, there we have it: These discussions aren't a group of largely non-Thais exchanging questions and opinions; It's a cyber war, Reds Under The Bed infiltrators being kept at bay by Ralph's self-appointed vigilante moderators.

And there was me thinking that we had a first class and very approachable team of official mods!

[YouYouYou]

Getting back on topic ....the S.K. PM made his statement and said 'Taksin is behind all this' and I agree.

For any that have forgotton what has recently happened/ buried their head in the sand/ plain just don't know .... in Feb., they, the courts seized some 46 Billion and left him with 30 billion ....this is what DIRECTLY sparked the protests we see now. Yes, there are many protestors that 'Are Paid To Be There' (agreed not all). Yes, they 'openly support' Taksin, Yes, they want him back .... and yes (according to oh soo many) he's personally backing them financially (oh and some of his mates in Thailand too).

So the sum of the protest is correct by the S.K. PM and tentatively the Deputy PM of Thailand is also correct in his recent accusation (to which he is being sued LOL) of Taksin.

So, what is the protest all about? Democaracy and freedom or to prop up one man's greed/wealth/ego, and return this man to Thailand 'unconvicted and PM again' for their due financial gains now and in the future ??

Up to You You You how you see it ....to me, it's crystal

P.S. Oops, sry Taksin, please don't sue me too, I only have 4000 Baht in the Bank right now, ty.