Red-Shirts To Intensify Pressure

[yoshiwara]

The red shirt leadership seems remarkably quiet.

I sense a move towards 'backing down'. Now we may see some more realistic proposals for the end-game.

Now they want to negotiate...

BangkokDan: Reuters reports red shirts open to talks to avoid crackdown

Hopefully that is true. And the government response should be "All Red leaders with warrants turn themselves in. All protesters leave within 24 hours. Elections in December, providing the country remains peaceful".

And all the bits that you don't understand.

No army re-shuffle

No changing the election districts and constitution to favour the Democrats chances of getting elected.

You PAD are so smug in your propaganda about this being about Thaksin, that you never bothered to read the issues, less did any of you try to understand them. The Democrats need to do both of the above to have any chance of surviving in the medium term.

You are just propaganda tools along the lines of Lord Haw Haw in the 2nd world war. He spouted of in high class intelligent terms about the situation. Just as some of you try to couch your rhetoric in educated terms.

If you are going to make historical references please make the effort to do some research before you whip them out.

Lord Haw-Haw was the nickname given to William Joyce because Brits thought he was a total joke spouting ridiculous claims from the enemy camp.

Not intelligent, a total joke.

Just like your contributions actually.

Edited April 21, 2010 by yoshiwara

[anotherpeter]

And all the bits that you don't understand.

No army re-shuffle

No changing the election districts and constitution to favour the Democrats chances of getting elected.

You PAD are so smug in your propaganda about this being about Thaksin, that you never bothered to read the issues, less did any of you try to understand them. The Democrats need to do both of the above to have any chance of surviving in the medium term.

You are just propaganda tools along the lines of Lord Haw Haw in the 2nd world war. He spouted of in high class intelligent terms about the situation. Just as some of you try to couch your rhetoric in educated terms.

Abhisit said during the negotiations that the will not dissolve until later in the year because of the budget, the army reshuffle, the constitution and referendum and after that, then elections.

The changing of the constitution is going to be done with input from all parties (not just politicians), and then voted for by the people.

The reds want power now so they can control the army reshuffle and so that they can control what goes into the constitution - without input from others.

Where has there been anything about changing election districts? Please provide more info.

[danc]

There are more falangs on here want bloodshed than their are Thais wanting it on the street

I don't think that either side of the spectrum can dispute that..but it will be shouted down as there are also some very dogmatic individuals here as well..or individuals that like to be heard, shall we say...I am sure there is an expression along the lines of "left in a room by themselves, they could start an argument" - it reminds of the forum!

[neverdie]

As per the topic, the Red Shirts would definitely "Intensify Pressure" if a few thousand of them managed to inadvertently asphyxiate themselves:

An anti-government protester wears a plastic bag over his head to prepare for the possibility of tear gas on Tuesday, April 20, 2010 in Bangkok, Thailand.

Yahoo News Service

Thats a funny pic, yeh its not the best idea in the world but keep in mind that tear gas is very very nasty and painful stuff.

I suppose it would work if you took a deep breath put the bag over your head and ran, remove, repeat. I dont think it effect the airways half as bad as the eyes.

Perhaps you could give it a try. Your idea of taking a deep breath, putting the head over the head, running, removing it and repeating the process is comical but proof you really have no idea.

Let me give you a little hint: It wont work.

[anotherpeter]

You really do know squat.

They have again outmanouvered Thaugsabum. He is screaming hysterically for death of the reds, along with the PAD falangs on here.

Now the Reds offer talks, he can't attack as then the army are re-igniting the issue. And the Army are hoping this will be resolved with talks. There are more falangs on here want bloodshed than their are Thais wanting it on the street. This is because you are closeted in you nice little offices and bedrooms far from the trouble.

You yellows been screaming for blood for 6 weeks now.

Can some of you please think before you post.

The red shirts have been screaming blood and violence for 9 weeks now.

It's about time they started negotiations.

[Netfan]

And all the bits that you don't understand.

No army re-shuffle

No changing the election districts and constitution to favour the Democrats chances of getting elected.

You PAD are so smug in your propaganda about this being about Thaksin, that you never bothered to read the issues, less did any of you try to understand them. The Democrats need to do both of the above to have any chance of surviving in the medium term.

You are just propaganda tools along the lines of Lord Haw Haw in the 2nd world war. He spouted of in high class intelligent terms about the situation. Just as some of you try to couch your rhetoric in educated terms.

No reshuffle? Why not? It's part of the PM's duties. Who said anything about changing election districts. The reds are the ones who want the constitution returned to pre-coup to loosen restrictions on vote-buying.

And why is it the Red supporters are so smug they can't admit this is about Thaksin, first and foremost. Did you see the headbands and shirts? Those photos were taken yesterday. You are just a propaganda tool along the lines of those who saw the Khmer Rouge as noble peasants fighting for the people.

[warfie]

Abhisit has made a complete and utter fool of himself.

The danger is that his refusal to hold an election for fear of getting voted out may result in a split in the army with potentially disatrous consequences.

He is very stubborn , i would agree with you . It is sad , result may be civil war , and army mutinies . And the guy owes his job to a military coup to start with .

Abhist offered a compromise, the reds refused... who's being stubborn?

[rabo]

retracted

Edited April 21, 2010 by rabo

[RussellHantz]

Thats a funny pic, yeh its not the best idea in the world but keep in mind that tear gas is very very nasty and painful stuff.

I suppose it would work if you took a deep breath put the bag over your head and ran, remove, repeat. I dont think it effect the airways half as bad as the eyes.

Perhaps you could give it a try. Your idea of taking a deep breath, putting the head over the head, running, removing it and repeating the process is comical but proof you really have no idea.

Let me give you a little hint: It wont work.

You have obviously never been hit by teargas. Its an absolutely devilish substance.

People will try whatever means possible to avoid it, like I said a bag over the head is not the best idea (a wet rag is better) but believe me once that stuff gets in your eyes you would be willing to try almost anything and use whatever is available to avoid the stuff.

[Netfan]

Thats a funny pic, yeh its not the best idea in the world but keep in mind that tear gas is very very nasty and painful stuff.

I suppose it would work if you took a deep breath put the bag over your head and ran, remove, repeat. I dont think it effect the airways half as bad as the eyes.

Perhaps you could give it a try. Your idea of taking a deep breath, putting the head over the head, running, removing it and repeating the process is comical but proof you really have no idea.

Let me give you a little hint: It wont work.

You have obviously never been hit by teargas. Its an absolutely devilish substance.

People will try whatever means possible to avoid it, like I said a bag over the head is not the best idea (a wet rag is better) but believe me once that stuff gets in your eyes you would be willing to try almost anything and use whatever is available to avoid the stuff.

Umm, I have never heard of anyone actually dying from outdoor exposure to teargas. I have, however, heard of people suffocating by placing plastic bags over their heads. usually children who don't know better.

[rixalex]

People will try whatever means possible to avoid it,

Going home might work.

[neverdie]

^Actually Russell, what I said to you is the plastic bag trick won't work. In my job I had some experience with being gassed, so i can well appreciate how nasty it can be, as you pointed out it gets in, in various ways and the idea of using the bag, removing it, inhaling clean air (from somewhere) before replacing the plastic bag and running again is not going to work.

Unlike others here, I am seriously hoping that common sense prevails and other means of finding an end to this situation are reached because Thailand just doesnt need anymore of these shenanigans. When I refer to Thailand, I talk about the greater good of all thai people, not a particular colour of clothing.

Edited April 21, 2010 by neverdie

[neverdie]

People will try whatever means possible to avoid it,

Going home might work.

Now theres an idea that might be painless, sadly (cough cough) some posters here won't get that.

[termad]

The PM listened and offered elections in 9 months from Now which was very fair. If the minority red shirt protestors had just accepted it. It would have been over last month.

But NO that was not good enough they must have elections within days. Well that's not quite how it works in politics and the agreement for elections in 9 months was fair.

Got to the live ammunition stage now. Well "Som Num Na"

You missed out the fact that the coalition parties have asked for elections in 6 months.

You also missed out the fact that the Democrat party are facing very serious corruption charges and the EC have called for their dissolution. The Democrat party spokesman said in a television interview that the Democrats would fight the charges. When asked how long that fight/appeal would take he said "9 months."

[scorecard]

Reds deny distributing stickers promoting Thaksin as president

BANGKOK: -- The red shirts had no involvement in the stickers with a message to promote "New Thai State under President Thaksin Shinawatra", their leader Natthawut Saikua said on Tuesday.

The stickers, with white message on red background, were distributed in public places along Silom Road.

Natthawut urged police to look into the matter and arrest the distributors.

Freedom of speech? Not under the Reds.

And furher, why didn't natthawut urge the police to arrest himself and his murky friends for using tapes which have been proven to be doctored, for telling numerous inflaming absolute lies to stir up and manipulate the red shirt followers, and for telling absolute outrageous lies* in the parliament where the public has a right to expect the highest of professional behavior, ethics, and total honesty. (*Challenged numerous times to produce evidence but has never done so on even one occasion.)

And they have the gall to say that teh government is full of double standards.

Edited April 21, 2010 by scorecard

[anotherpeter]

The PM listened and offered elections in 9 months from Now which was very fair. If the minority red shirt protestors had just accepted it. It would have been over last month.

But NO that was not good enough they must have elections within days. Well that's not quite how it works in politics and the agreement for elections in 9 months was fair.

Got to the live ammunition stage now. Well "Som Num Na"

You missed out the fact that the coalition parties have asked for elections in 6 months.

You also missed out the fact that the Democrat party are facing very serious corruption charges and the EC have called for their dissolution. The Democrat party spokesman said in a television interview that the Democrats would fight the charges. When asked how long that fight/appeal would take he said "9 months."

If the Dems get done for corruption charges, only the executive gets banned. So the rest of the Dems can still form a coalition government with the smaller parties if they still have their support.

That could have happened with the PTP, but the PTP lost the smaller party support.

[termad]

Thats a funny pic, yeh its not the best idea in the world but keep in mind that tear gas is very very nasty and painful stuff.

I suppose it would work if you took a deep breath put the bag over your head and ran, remove, repeat. I dont think it effect the airways half as bad as the eyes.

Perhaps you could give it a try. Your idea of taking a deep breath, putting the head over the head, running, removing it and repeating the process is comical but proof you really have no idea.

Let me give you a little hint: It wont work.

You have obviously never been hit by teargas. Its an absolutely devilish substance.

People will try whatever means possible to avoid it, like I said a bag over the head is not the best idea (a wet rag is better) but believe me once that stuff gets in your eyes you would be willing to try almost anything and use whatever is available to avoid the stuff.

Umm, I have never heard of anyone actually dying from outdoor exposure to teargas. I have, however, heard of people suffocating by placing plastic bags over their heads. usually children who don't know better.

You're wrong. When using tear gas you do not lay it down in dense clouds the way the troops were shown on TV as doing. In that concentration in can bring on a heart attack after spasms through being unable to breath correctly.

[grandpops]

The PM listened and offered elections in 9 months from Now which was very fair. If the minority red shirt protestors had just accepted it. It would have been over last month.

But NO that was not good enough they must have elections within days. Well that's not quite how it works in politics and the agreement for elections in 9 months was fair.

Got to the live ammunition stage now. Well "Som Num Na"

You missed out the fact that the coalition parties have asked for elections in 6 months.

You also missed out the fact that the Democrat party are facing very serious corruption charges and the EC have called for their dissolution. The Democrat party spokesman said in a television interview that the Democrats would fight the charges. When asked how long that fight/appeal would take he said "9 months."

He also missed out (because they didn't bother to find out) that they are trying to change the election districts, the constitution and appoint whoever their paymaster wants as next army chief.

This is not about Thaksin. He is a conduit for all the bad feeling from this oppressive regime that has been in too long. The Democrats as proxies are trying to extend the regime's existance as expected. The Elites put a lot of money, influence and time into getting Thaksin, Samaak and Somchai out, amending the Election Law and putting their man (Abhisit) in.

OK agree to 9 months with no changes to any of the above and they would accept.

[TheOldWolf]

The PM listened and offered elections in 9 months from Now which was very fair. If the minority red shirt protestors had just accepted it. It would have been over last month.

But NO that was not good enough they must have elections within days. Well that's not quite how it works in politics and the agreement for elections in 9 months was fair.

Got to the live ammunition stage now. Well "Som Num Na"

You missed out the fact that the coalition parties have asked for elections in 6 months.

You also missed out the fact that the Democrat party are facing very serious corruption charges and the EC have called for their dissolution. The Democrat party spokesman said in a television interview that the Democrats would fight the charges. When asked how long that fight/appeal would take he said "9 months."

He also missed out (because they didn't bother to find out) that they are trying to change the election districts, the constitution and appoint whoever their paymaster wants as next army chief.

This is not about Thaksin. He is a conduit for all the bad feeling from this oppressive regime that has been in too long. The Democrats as proxies are trying to extend the regime's existance as expected. The Elites put a lot of money, influence and time into getting Thaksin, Samaak and Somchai out, amending the Election Law and putting their man (Abhisit) in.

OK agree to 9 months with no changes to any of the above and they would accept.

So why didn´t they stay att the negotiation table and discussed that?

[anotherpeter]

He also missed out (because they didn't bother to find out) that they are trying to change the election districts, the constitution and appoint whoever their paymaster wants as next army chief.

This is not about Thaksin. He is a conduit for all the bad feeling from this oppressive regime that has been in too long. The Democrats as proxies are trying to extend the regime's existance as expected. The Elites put a lot of money, influence and time into getting Thaksin, Samaak and Somchai out, amending the Election Law and putting their man (Abhisit) in.

OK agree to 9 months with no changes to any of the above and they would accept.

Where does it say anything about changes to election districts?

[ianf]

I am amazed that there are still some farangs about who believe that this is "not about Thaksin", that this about "red v Yellows", that this is about a fight for democracy and a larger share of the cake for the rural poor. I just don't understand where you are coming from.

This movement is not dissimilar to the National Socialism that prevailed in pre-war Germany from 1928 to 1933. Any analysis of the rise of fascism makes it, to me anyhow, quite obvious that there are huge parallels between now in Thailand and the pre-war period in Germany.

The National Socialists were very skilled in playing upon the emotions of the participants at their rallies. In doing so they avoided the necessity of logical argument or the presentation of issues which would form the basis of a political programme that would benefit the mass of the people. Hitler's Mein Kampf explains that mass psychological manipulation must dispense with argumentation and at the same time he never explained what the shape of society would look like after the imposition of national socialism. He was pretty adept at camouflaging defeats and covering important facts with illusions and these were the psychological skills that bought him to power - they were then reinforced with terror and brutality, which he was able to get away with at the time because of his psychological conditioning of the masses.

This is why I oppose this movement. The reds are akin to the national socialists and Thaksin is their 'Hitler'. What people have referred here to as Thaksin's 'lies' is really about the illusions - including self delusion - that he creates. He is too transparent for some whilst others, who have been psychologically conditioned as a mass, do not see any contradiction.

I have spent my life as a human rights activist and have been employed by Amnesty International in the 1970s. I have witnessed, rarely at first hand I must say, the terror wreaked upon the innocent masses by Idi Amin, Marcos, Mugabe, Sadam Hussein, Pinochet and many more. To me, Thaksin is no different. He comes from the same breed of individuals who can only deal with their own personal inadequacies through the lust for power, through greed and ultimately through brutality.

Thaksin's so called war on drugs which resulted in the extra-judicial killings of more than 2,500 souls was another illusion. Were they all drug dealers? Some of the victims were drug users dragged out of drop-in centres, others were political opponents and (perhaps) others were chosen at random. The killing of your own people within a rally of your own supporters would not be out of the question for one so ruthless.

I ask all of you who are prone to support the reds, or who believe in the illusionary calls for democracy, to think again. Thailand is a land of simple people, easily manipulated as a mass and what they need is a government who understands democracy, who can truly educate the nation's children and who can create a land that fits the peaceful buddhist images that are associated with this land. For the first time Thailand has a prime minister who understands these issues - and although he may be surrounded by people who are not carved from the same stone, he's got a fighting chance to turn the nation around. The fascists know this so they had to act fast and the seizure of Thaksin's stolen assets was just the catalyst needed, not because of the event, but because psychologically it was the opportune time.

Edited April 21, 2010 by ianf

[termad]

The PM listened and offered elections in 9 months from Now which was very fair. If the minority red shirt protestors had just accepted it. It would have been over last month.

But NO that was not good enough they must have elections within days. Well that's not quite how it works in politics and the agreement for elections in 9 months was fair.

Got to the live ammunition stage now. Well "Som Num Na"

You missed out the fact that the coalition parties have asked for elections in 6 months.

You also missed out the fact that the Democrat party are facing very serious corruption charges and the EC have called for their dissolution. The Democrat party spokesman said in a television interview that the Democrats would fight the charges. When asked how long that fight/appeal would take he said "9 months."

If the Dems get done for corruption charges, only the executive gets banned. So the rest of the Dems can still form a coalition government with the smaller parties if they still have their support.

That could have happened with the PTP, but the PTP lost the smaller party support.

The Democrat Party employed a company to break the the 258 million baht (they received from TPI Polene) into 2 million baht lots and send each lot to a Democrat Party official or senior worker who then paid it into Democrat Party funds. The EC must have proof of this or else they would not have put it into the written decision. As far as I'm aware that means that in addition to Party Executives anybody who handled one of those 2 million baht lots will also be banned from politics for five years.

The EC have called for the dissolution of the Democrat Party and the party will be banned in exactly the same manner as were Thai Rak Thai and the Peoples Power Party.

There is also the other charge that they face which is improperly using a 29 million baht grant from the EC that the party received for political development. The Party also faces dissolution on that charge.

Edited April 21, 2010 by termad

[bkkjames]

The PM listened and offered elections in 9 months from Now which was very fair. If the minority red shirt protestors had just accepted it. It would have been over last month.

But NO that was not good enough they must have elections within days. Well that's not quite how it works in politics and the agreement for elections in 9 months was fair.

Got to the live ammunition stage now. Well "Som Num Na"

You missed out the fact that the coalition parties have asked for elections in 6 months.

You also missed out the fact that the Democrat party are facing very serious corruption charges and the EC have called for their dissolution. The Democrat party spokesman said in a television interview that the Democrats would fight the charges. When asked how long that fight/appeal would take he said "9 months."

If the Dems get done for corruption charges, only the executive gets banned. So the rest of the Dems can still form a coalition government with the smaller parties if they still have their support.

That could have happened with the PTP, but the PTP lost the smaller party support.

The Democrat Party employed a company to break the the 258 million baht (they received from TPI Polene) into 2 million baht lots and send each lot to a Democrat Party official or senior worker who then paid it into Democrat Party funds. The EC must have proof of this or else they would not have put it into the written decision. As far as I'm aware that means anybody who handled one of those 2 million baht lots will be banned from politics for five years.

The EC have called for the dissolution of the Democrat Party and the party will be banned in exactly the same manner as were Thai Rak Thai and the Peoples Power Party.

There is also the other charge that they face which is improperly using a 29 million baht grant from the EC that the party received for political development. The Party also faces dissolution on that charge.

And if found guilty then it will happen. Probably not today sorry to tell you.

[ChiangMaiFun]

You really do know squat.

They have again outmanouvered Thaugsabum. He is screaming hysterically for death of the reds, along with the PAD falangs on here.

Now the Reds offer talks, he can't attack as then the army are re-igniting the issue. And the Army are hoping this will be resolved with talks. There are more falangs on here want bloodshed than their are Thais wanting it on the street. This is because you are closeted in you nice little offices and bedrooms far from the trouble.

You yellows been screaming for blood for 6 weeks now.

Can some of you please think before you post.

Who has been "screaming for blood", other than the Red leaders? I haven't seen any photos of Yellow shirts carrying sharpened sticks like those above - or maybe you are going to say they're just using them for hunting in Lumphini Park? The Reds should have taken Abhisit's offer of elections in nine months - hel_l, that was almost a month ago now. That would have been the smart thing to do. Except Thaksin wouldn't approve. The deaths are on Thaksin's hands. The army responded to being attacked, which they have a right to do. Now the Reds are in no position to offer anything other than to lay down their arms and go home.

Very weak analysis - but granted they should have negotiated for 3/6 months elections. It isn't over yet even if they go home.

[Netfan]

Umm, I have never heard of anyone actually dying from outdoor exposure to teargas. I have, however, heard of people suffocating by placing plastic bags over their heads. usually children who don't know better.

You're wrong. When using tear gas you do not lay it down in dense clouds the way the troops were shown on TV as doing. In that concentration in can bring on a heart attack after spasms through being unable to breath correctly.

Ok, i guess the plastic bags over the head is a good idea then. My bad.

[TheOldWolf]

The PM listened and offered elections in 9 months from Now which was very fair. If the minority red shirt protestors had just accepted it. It would have been over last month.

But NO that was not good enough they must have elections within days. Well that's not quite how it works in politics and the agreement for elections in 9 months was fair.

Got to the live ammunition stage now. Well "Som Num Na"

You missed out the fact that the coalition parties have asked for elections in 6 months.

You also missed out the fact that the Democrat party are facing very serious corruption charges and the EC have called for their dissolution. The Democrat party spokesman said in a television interview that the Democrats would fight the charges. When asked how long that fight/appeal would take he said "9 months."

If the Dems get done for corruption charges, only the executive gets banned. So the rest of the Dems can still form a coalition government with the smaller parties if they still have their support.

That could have happened with the PTP, but the PTP lost the smaller party support.

The Democrat Party employed a company to break the the 258 million baht (they received from TPI Polene) into 2 million baht lots and send each lot to a Democrat Party official or senior worker who then paid it into Democrat Party funds. The EC must have proof of this or else they would not have put it into the written decision. As far as I'm aware that means that in addition to Party Executives anybody who handled one of those 2 million baht lots will also be banned from politics for five years.

The EC have called for the dissolution of the Democrat Party and the party will be banned in exactly the same manner as were Thai Rak Thai and the Peoples Power Party.

There is also the other charge that they face which is improperly using a 29 million baht grant from the EC that the party received for political development. The Party also faces dissolution on that charge.

Let us wait and have the court decision. I thin some red thugs with the brave wall climbing hero name Arisman made a visist to EC. From the stage they gave out the names and addresses and threaten to come back. I think they throw away this hot potatoe as fast as they could.

[kentucky]

"We are open to talks to end the crisis, but not with the government," one of the "red shirt" leaders, Jaran Ditapichai, told Reuters in an interview.

Who is he? Never heard of him before

OK I have googhim, earlier The National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) commissioner, now red leader. Sorry it was the first time I heard about him in this mess.

Further googling will reveal that Jaran Ditapichai was expelled as a member of the National Human Rights Commission for his role in the violent July 22, 2007 riot in front of Prem's house that resulted in hundreds of injuries.

He became a criminal litigant for those actions along with other red shirt leaders (and which, AFAIK, these charges after nearly 3 years are still not resolved).

For his riot co-leader status, he was impeached by a vote of 156 to 1, with 3 abstaining.

Human Rights Commission member and Riot Leader. Nice mix.

Edited April 21, 2010 by kentucky

[warfie]

My wifw says the Red Shirts ARE that stupid to distribute these stickers as they've been distributing similar materials amongst their followers for months now. I saw they couldn't possibly be that stupid and it was brilliant ploy by someone to do it and then show how it ties in so neatly to the "Taksin" magazine and similar periodicals. 10 out of 10 for imagination, effort and execution.

You and your wife get it. It isnt about the stickers. It is about people believe that is what the reds want

Sorry it is not about what the reds want

The Reds have shown them selves to be nothing more than a mob

This is all about what the Red leaders want the Reds to want

and we have had so many examples of the trickery and lies they have used and there abiity to think of what's best for the Thai people

So it could be said that it might be the Red leaders what to make people think that it is the Yellows trying to make people think it is the reds, doing what the yellow want the people to think that the reds want them to think

Gee even I'm confused, and a wrote it

What was the question again ????

errrr... I think I agree with this....

[warfie]

There is more than one of these self-serving hypocrites in the Drama

The read Leaders and Thaksin to name a few...

I had to inform 25 of my casual staff today that there contracts will not be renewed because of the red s*hit protesters camping outside our hotel and the huge loss the hotel has endured...

Now you tell me these people give a Shi*t about he working Thais?

NO they are here to line there pockets and the "red masses" are just paid pawns ...nothing more...

In the last month my staff have put up with reds leering and making comments as they made there way to work every day through the crowds of so called ( paid ) Protesters while they camp out with there market stalls, carnival side shows, street Bars and massage shops..

Our Hotel owners have done everything in there power to to avoid having to do what I did today and these are the so called Elite that the reds are apparently fighting...

"All we want is Democracy"

These people would not know what Democracy was because they are too busy making sure they are getting paid..

What a JOKE The Reds are greedy parasites from the top down...nothing more nothing less..

couldn't agree more

[termad]

I am amazed that there are still some farangs about who believe that this is "not about Thaksin", that this about "red v Yellows", that this is about a fight for democracy and a larger share of the cake for the rural poor. I just don't understand where you are coming from.

This movement is not dissimilar to the National Socialism that prevailed in pre-war Germany from 1928 to 1933. Any analysis of the rise of fascism makes it, to me anyhow, quite obvious that there are huge parallels between now and the pre-war period.

The National Socialists were very skilled in playing upon the emotions of the participants at their rallies. In doing so they avoided the necessity of logical argument or the presentation of issues which would form the basis of a political programme that would benefit the mass of the people. Hitler's Mein Kampf explains that mass psychological manipulation must dispense with argumentation and at the same time he never explained what the shape of society would look like after the imposition of national socialism. He was pretty adept at camouflaging defeats and covering important facts with illusions and these were the psychological skills that bought him to power - they were then reinforced with terror and brutality, which he was able to get away with at the time because of the psychological conditioning of the masses.

This is why I oppose this movement. The reds are akin to the national socialists and Thaksin is their 'Hitler'. What people have referred here to Thaksin's 'lies' is really about the illusions - including self delusion - that he creates. He is too transparent for some whilst others, who have been psychologically conditioned, do not see any contradiction.

I have spent my life as a human rights activist and have been employed by Amnesty International in the 1970s. I have witnessed, rarely at first hand I must say, the terror wreaked upon the innocent masses by Idi Amin, Marcos, Mugabe, Sadam Hussein, Pinochet and many more. To me, Thaksin is no different. He comes from the same breed of individuals who can only deal with their own personal inadequacies through the lust for power, through greed and ultimately through brutality.

Thaksin's so called war on drugs which resulted in the extra-judicial killings of more than 2,500 souls. Drug dealers? Another illusion when some of the people were drug users dragged out of drop-in centres and political opponents and (perhaps) others chosen at random. The killing of your own people within a rally of your own supporters would not be out of the question for one so ruthless.

I ask all of you who are prone to support the reds, or who believe in the illusionary calls for democracy, to think again. Thailand is a land of simple people, easily manipulated as a mass and what they need is a government who understands democracy, who can truly educate the nation's children and who can create a land that fits the peaceful buddhist images that are associated with this land.

No comparison can be made between the Red Shirt movement and National Socialism. If you want to equate them to a European movement it should be to one of the European Peasant revolts because that's what it is all about - double standards. Your description of the Thai people as simple people perhaps gives a glimpse of your own political leanings.