Bangkok: Another Crackdown, More Bloodshed Expected

[chantorn]

Negotiations require willingness on both sides to solve a problem, come to a compromise. In this case this is not happening because the red shirts have on numerous occasions refused to negotiate and are not willing to give an inch.

The reasons why they even refused a compromise of new elections within 6 months shows very clearly that there is a hidden agenda on the reds side. This agenda is dictated by their absent (since he is a convicted criminal, facing jail) leader who is financing the red terrorists.

Yes, not all reds are terrorists, a large number are simply farmers and motorcycle gangs who are in it for the money they get and the action. They are being used by the center core group with the leaders which is by all means and purpose a terrorist cell.

The attack on the fuel tank would have led to huge losses of life - grenade attacks virtually daily and their simple refusal to obey the law of the land + the train attack in Kong Ken - all those actions leave no daubed that they are a terrorist cell trying to take over the legal government of this country.

It is difficult to understand how it is possible that anyone with a minimum education can fall for their propaganda with putting the melodramatic "cries" of help from the "poor" as the reason for the "uprising". If you have figured out that Santa Claus really does not exist you should realize that the agenda of this mob is not to help the poor but to re-install Thaksin into power and the red shirt leaders will be well rewarded with lucrative positions in government while those so called "poor" will be send back home, having lost their usefulness as human shields.

Thaksin, will of course be opposed by the educated masses of Thailand ... those called "the elite" by the red shirts will of course fight Thaksins takeover and Thailand will sink into a civil war with dramatic results for the population with huge losses of life and the economy.

Considering Thaksins record he will turn Thailand into a republic with him as president for life and than, the red followers will find out what a Dictatorship really means.

It is a fact that Thaksin has very close ties to Burma and favors the regime there. One of his telecom deals while he was PM shows this more then clearly. Before he returns he has to get rid of any opposition in the army and install his followers into key positions. This is the real reason in his agenda why he wants the government to step down before the re-shuffle - allowing him to undertake this move, making his return a smooth process without any army intervention against him.

But the RED are terrorists (I didn't say that, Thai government did). Should the PM be negotiating with the terrorists?

[anotherpeter]

But the RED are terrorists (I didn't say that, Thai government did). Should the PM be negotiating with the terrorists?

The PM never said the reds are terrorists. He said that there are terrorists amongst the reds.

[ThailandLovr]

Yes, not all reds are terrorists, a large number are simply brainless farmers and motorcycle gangs who are in it for the money they get and the action...

There is truth in this, but I think not the whole truth. Many Reds feel aggrieved that they have been treated unfairly by the elites, both economically and politically. As usual, the real truth lies somewhere in between the positions staked out by Reds and Yellows.

The fact is that the Reds felt they had someone in power who looked out for them--"them" being largely ethnic Lao from Issan--and then Thaksin was overthrown. Nothing rankles like hope taken away.

The Reds have the energy, an energy metabolized by anger and frustration. Surely the elites understand that if the army uses large scale force to clear out tens of thousands of Reds--including large numbers of women,children and elderly--the government will become a pariah regime overnight, and spark an armed insurgency.

Those of us living here, Thai and foreigner alike, can only hope that reason prevails and that a compromise on the date for Parliament dissolution is announced very soon. If not, foreigners might soon be stampeding the exits.

I thought a compromise had been announced during the negotiations.

The Democrats went from 21 months to 9 months.

The reds went from 15 days to ......... 15 days.

Thaksin doesn't want a compromise. He wants to be in power now.

And Weng thinks the UN will give him "peacekeeping forces" with this negotiating record? It's just an impossible, crazy PR stunt as everybody knows. If the Red's insist on battle, then for God sakes let's get on with it and get it over with. Either that or Abhisit agree to their demands. Do something! With each passing hour the situation gets more complex and more dangerous.

Edited April 22, 2010 by ThailandLovr

[earthpig]

If the Red's insist on battle, then for God sakes let's get on with it and get it over with.

With all due respect, i think this sentiment is very wrong.

If the Army marches now on the Red encampment, it will be the bloodiest confrontation in Thailand in modern times, and it may well spark an armed insurgency that can only result in tears for all.

The good news is that it does appear that the Army understands this.

[drronnie]

Now I read that Dr. Weng is going to the UN Building to appeal for the UN to send peacekeeping troops to protect the red shirts from the government. What the hel_l?

[BKjohn]

Now I read that Dr. Weng is going to the UN Building to appeal for the UN to send peacekeeping troops to protect the red shirts from the government. What the hel_l?

All propaganda to show how the "poor peaceful" reds are threatened by the government - who falls for this BS I don't know, but I'm sure there are a few here in this forum

Edited April 22, 2010 by BKjohn

[chantorn]

The article is so bias, it is not worth reading.

It should be published in Manager.co.th rather than the Nation.

[drronnie]

Now I read that Dr. Weng is going to the UN Building to appeal for the UN to send peacekeeping troops to protect the red shirts from the government. What the hel_l?

All propaganda to show how the "poor peaceful" reds are threatened by the government - who falls for this BS I don't know, but I'm sure there are a few here in this forum

Do you think the UN peacekeeping forces will actually come?

[ThailandLovr]

With all due respect, i think this sentiment is very wrong.

If the Army marches now on the Red encampment, it will be the bloodiest confrontation in Thailand in modern times, and it may well spark an armed insurgency that can only result in tears for all.

The good news is that it does appear that the Army understands this.

No problem ep. So you see (the next sentence in my post) Abhisit accepting the Red's demands unconditionally as the appropriate, if not the only, response at this point?

You don't think the use of sonic devices, water cannons and other non-weaponry measures (like cutting power, cell phone usage, etc) would be effective in dispersing the protesters? Or don't you want the protesters to disperse? That is an entirely different matter.

Edited April 22, 2010 by ThailandLovr

[BKjohn]

The article is so bias, it is not worth reading.

It should be published in Manager.co.th rather than the Nation.

what did I say

the article does nothing else but to quote weng and tell of what he is doing - what is bias about that????

love this part of wengs statement: "I want the presence of peace keeping force to prevent Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thuagsuban from dispatching soldiers to kill the red shirts who have just their bare hands," weng said from the rally state at Rajprasong.

Wow, one must admit his ability to lie despite pictures and facts, admitted to by themselves telling the exact opposite - this is a farce and I hope the UN staff tells him to go to hel_l

Edited April 22, 2010 by BKjohn

[BKjohn]

next we have Al Queda asking the UN for protection because the combined forces in Iraq and Afghanistan are out to kill them and they have only got their bare hands It is hilarious

Edited April 22, 2010 by BKjohn

[TonyH]

Now I read that Dr. Weng is going to the UN Building to appeal for the UN to send peacekeeping troops to protect the red shirts from the government. What the hel_l?

All propaganda to show how the "poor peaceful" reds are threatened by the government - who falls for this BS I don't know, but I'm sure there are a few here in this forum

Do you think the UN peacekeeping forces will actually come?

Please no not another bunch of wussies to join the fracas.

[drronnie]

next we have Al Queda asking the UN for protection because the combined forces in Iraq and Afghanistan are out to kill them and they have only got their bare hands It is hilarious

Of course the red shirts have bare hands. They are not wearing gloves. LOL!

[BKjohn]

Now I read that Dr. Weng is going to the UN Building to appeal for the UN to send peacekeeping troops to protect the red shirts from the government. What the hel_l?

All propaganda to show how the "poor peaceful" reds are threatened by the government - who falls for this BS I don't know, but I'm sure there are a few here in this forum

Do you think the UN peacekeeping forces will actually come?

Please no not another bunch of wussies to join the fracas.

The UN will not come to the aid of an illegal mob against a legal government and Weng and his cohorts know this very well, this is just show and nothing else - may go down well with the international press

[grandpops]

Now I read that Dr. Weng is going to the UN Building to appeal for the UN to send peacekeeping troops to protect the red shirts from the government. What the hel_l?

All propaganda to show how the "poor peaceful" reds are threatened by the government - who falls for this BS I don't know, but I'm sure there are a few here in this forum

Might not fit the PAD spin, but to an outsider it looks like the reds are corralled in with the Army guarding the massing PAD muppets.

The only side likely to attack is from the PAD hardcore who under Thaugsabum are being organised and armed.

I think the Army is playing it well though. They could yet turn on the CRES which is where most of the vile hatred is being spewed from these days. We see more of them and their secret police state tactics than Abhisit. They obvisouly are behind calling in the Navy as well so will be in Anupongs bad books as I think he could really solve this problem if he really has the free hand that Abhisit says he has.

Anupong for PM anybody? It looks like that or Newin to me more and more.

UN will certainly see it like this as they are not blind. They are just diplomatically silent on it.

[kimincm]

It would be good if the UN came.The first thing they would do would be to tell everybody to go home.

[evanson]

Now I read that Dr. Weng is going to the UN Building to appeal for the UN to send peacekeeping troops to protect the red shirts from the government. What the hel_l?

Perhaps someone from the Government would like to accompany him and whilst there lay charges against his Boss for genocide relating to his direct Order to shoot to kill over 2000 Thais during his spurious Crackdown on Drugs when he was in power.

No country is able to harbour anyone having this charge laid against them. Job done.

[BKjohn]

This, as far as the international community is concerned is nothing but a local brawl between the government and a group of Thaksins crooks.

The only people who will really pay the price for all this will be the Thai's in the end and the funny part is, considering that 100's of thousands of Isaanies work in one form or another in the tourism industry, they will pay the most thanks to their "brothers".

And considering that most of them send money home to their families, all of them will pay in the end and you will hear the complaints coming in ... no work can not support my family the government must help the poor Isaanies .... well chaps som nam naa

Edited April 22, 2010 by BKjohn

[chantorn]

It would be good if the UN came.The first thing they would do would be to tell everybody to go home.

The first thing they would do would be to tell everybody to go home - In English / French / Spanish / German / Chinese / Japanese .... every other languages but Thai.

[hammered]

The UN thing is purely a publicity stunt. The problem the reds have is that most of the world including all western governments regard the Thai government as legitimate and regard Thailand as a democracy albeit a currently troubled one that will have elections in at most 18 months. If those elections do not take place that may change depending largely on geo-political issues and levels of stability/violence in Thailand.

Most governments including western ones are worried about the situation in Thailand and would like it ti be resolved through democratic and legal means as negotiated by the parties.

As to the violence foreign governments have made or not made statements but due to the somewhat uncertain nature of who started it those statements are never going to favour one side or the other but be blanket condemnations of violence.

That is where we are. The notion of peaceful protestors mowed down for no reason on April 10 has not been sold by the red shirts and the notion that no soldier fired and every one was killed by death squads has not been sold by the government.

You will also find that foreign governments are more aware of the nuances and games being played by all sides than any of us are. And a big part of the current power struggle is about issues nobody is talking about

[Tod Daniels]

Currently there are 16 'on-going' UN Peacekeeping missions in the world. The longest has been 'on-going' since 1948; Arab-Israeli ceasefire monitoring and the most recent a Central African Republic and Chad monitoring endeavor.

I find the entire thing nothing more than an international publicity stunt cooked up by the whacky Dr Weng designed to show the world the pitiful plight of the incredible injustice suffered by the allegedly 'peacefully protesting redz'. I think it is highly unlikely that his request would even be taken semi-seriously given the reluctance of the UN to intervene in world events which make things here look like a couple of kids in a playground fight at school.

The things in thailand are a non-event to anyone not here and/or with business thais to thailand. Given Dr Weng's less than stellar grasp of the engrish language I doubt it will even garner a 10 second sound byte. I also find it interesting that he 'requested' a group of 2000 redz to accompany him to the UN office 'for his personal safety'. His paranoia knows no bounds.

I think the Military is playing this very shrewdly, following nearly a by-the-book plan of; containment, limiting more people from joining, and slowly but surely curtailing re-supply.

From my own personal observations yesterday afternoon at Rajaprasong, and Lumpini the redz are running out of steam and given the very small crowd I saw they are fast running out of followers as well. Both areas were also very dirty and foul smelling with BIG piles of garbage everywhere I looked. When I tried to take a picture of the mountain of trash down at Rajaprasong I was not so politely discouraged by the redz.

In other news; I heard twice from some thais I know that the 'Thaksin President for the New State of Thailand' stickers were actually made up by “Friends of Newin” supporters, but again this is an unconfirmed report. What I found most puzzling was I heard it from two different thais who don't know each other at all, and in different parts of the city too.

[Jai Dee]

A number of derogatory posts (and replies) have been deleted from this topic.

Please keep the discussions civil.

[Farangdong]

This, as far as the international community is concerned is nothing but a local brawl between the government and a group of Thaksins crooks.

The only people who will really pay the price for all this will be the Thai's in the end and the funny part is, considering that 100's of thousands of Isaanies work in one form or another in the tourism industry, they will pay the most thanks to their "brothers".

And considering that most of them send money home to their families, all of them will pay in the end and you will hear the complaints coming in ... no work can not support my family the government must help the poor Isaanies .... well chaps som nam naa

Sad but true... this is the usual "war between poors" strategy, the rich always earn something, the poor always lose something.

In any case, if things are not settled soon, in a way or antoher, I feel a civil war air around Thailand.

[anotherpeter]

Now I read that Dr. Weng is going to the UN Building to appeal for the UN to send peacekeeping troops to protect the red shirts from the government. What the hel_l?

All propaganda to show how the "poor peaceful" reds are threatened by the government - who falls for this BS I don't know, but I'm sure there are a few here in this forum

Might not fit the PAD spin, but to an outsider it looks like the reds are corralled in with the Army guarding the massing PAD muppets.

The only side likely to attack is from the PAD hardcore who under Thaugsabum are being organised and armed.

I think the Army is playing it well though. They could yet turn on the CRES which is where most of the vile hatred is being spewed from these days. We see more of them and their secret police state tactics than Abhisit. They obvisouly are behind calling in the Navy as well so will be in Anupongs bad books as I think he could really solve this problem if he really has the free hand that Abhisit says he has.

Anupong for PM anybody? It looks like that or Newin to me more and more.

UN will certainly see it like this as they are not blind. They are just diplomatically silent on it.

I like how you continue on with your delusion that any one that protests against the reds are PAD muppets, but that the reds are there for their own personal reasons that have nothing to do with Thaksin and his puppets (red leaders - corruppets?).

The reds are protesting because they want Thaksin to come back into power. Anyone protesting against them is there because they don't want Thaksin back.

Edited April 22, 2010 by anotherpeter

[BKjohn]

From my own personal observations yesterday afternoon at Rajaprasong, and Lumpini the redz are running out of steam and given the very small crowd I saw they are fast running out of followers as well. Both areas were also very dirty and foul smelling with BIG piles of garbage everywhere I looked. When I tried to take a picture of the mountain of trash down at Rajaprasong I was not so politely discouraged by the redz.

Foul smelling garbage is not a deterrent for them and lots of it is actually befitting the situation, garbage to garbage.

The problem is, if this goes on for another day, the shit is going to hit the fan with “multicolored shirts” (all this sounds ridiculous and will be known as the “Thai shirt war” in future) rightfully taking them on if the army does not.

Everybody is loosing money and will be loosing a lot more (including the Isaanies who work - not of course those lazy bums) if this is not resolved NOW

Money and power for one is the cause of all of this and a lot of livelihoods will be destroyed.