Bangkok: Another Crackdown, More Bloodshed Expected

[Tod Daniels]

Thako proxy party seats won: 233

dem seats won: 165

so how many voted for his party after the Coup??

Nobody voted...

well maybe 280 people did. I'm not sure.

Actually, now that you mention it.. The post coup elections played out like this for party list MP's given a total of 480 seats in the Lower House. Which BTW is who votes for the PM, and NOT the people. Oh and another thing, ALL the current MP's were voted for BY THE PEOPLE to be their representation.

Anyway, it breaks down like this;

PPP 310 (Samak) (PPP had NO stand alone majority or if they did why did they form a 6 party coalition)

Democrat Party 165 (Abhisit)

*5 MP's votes unaccounted for*

After Samak was axed for the "cooking show fiasco" the MP's voted like this for PPP's Somchai;

PPP 298 (Somchai) (AGAIN PPP had NO stand alone majority as a party but formed a 5 party coalition)

Democrat Party 163 (Abhisit)

*19 MP's votes unaccounted for*

After Somchai was axed Chaovarat became caretaker PM, as he was the "last man standing" (even though the constitution stipulates that the Prime Minister must be a member of the House of Representatives, and sadly Chaovarat was not. ..)

Then there was the FLIP of banned politician Newin Chidchob and his "Friends of Newin" group who defected from the Redz. The MPs that flipped came from various and sundry political parties but it is interesting to note they also came from the For Thais Party (Puea Thai, the successor of the PPP), the former Chart Thai Party, the Thais United National Development Party, the Neutral Democratic Party, and the infamous "Friends of Newin" faction of the former Peoples Power Party sided with the Demz. Those 32 MP's which Newin controls are the linchpin to the whole equation which gave the Demz the majority in a vote of MP's which looked like this:

Democrat Party 235 (Abhisit) (Demz also had NO stand alone majority but formed a coalition with the Friends of Newin Group MP's)

PTP 198 (Pracha Promnok)

*47 MP's votes unaccounted for*

There could be and probably is a margin of error in the numbers as they obviously don't add up to 480 each time and a person might ask why didn't an MP vote for PM..

I still can't find why 47 MP's votes in the last go round of voting in the Lower House are unaccounted for. It could be dubious googling, or bad information, but I found the numbers on a few internet sites.

That's the good bad and ugly of the Lower House voting which lead to where we are today boyz & gurls.

Carry on with your armchair political punditry <sic>, it's interesting to say the least.

Edited April 20, 2010 by tod-daniels

[chrislarsson]

Hysterical, heavily biased nonsense - just another day at the office for the Nation writers. This is not journalism.

why don't the reds just go home and wait for the 9 months,,,, there would have been no bloodshed by either side if they had returned to the negotiating table, there were still options offered to return to the negotiating table,,, and still the red leaders are not interested,,,,, I think it would be insane for anyone to think that it would be for the good of the country if the PM stepped down within 15 days as the red leaders are asking, especially now,,,,, who is trying to make peace and who is trying to break it here,.....

I cannot remember any offers from PAD to sit down at the negotiating table when they occupied the airports.

When the police tried to break up their demonstration and 2 yellow-shirts died of explosions from teargas, they called the government terrorists.

If there is going to be any way forward, the double standards have to end.

[pimay11]

THE NATION: Arisman has threatened that red "army" will carry out "special ops" tonite, seizing ambulances and military vehicles.

This is the kind of guy everyone wants for their next door neighbor. I'm sure glad the reds are carrying on a peaceful rally. No telling what it would be if it was violent.

[TheOldWolf]

Hysterical, heavily biased nonsense - just another day at the office for the Nation writers. This is not journalism.

why don't the reds just go home and wait for the 9 months,,,, there would have been no bloodshed by either side if they had returned to the negotiating table, there were still options offered to return to the negotiating table,,, and still the red leaders are not interested,,,,, I think it would be insane for anyone to think that it would be for the good of the country if the PM stepped down within 15 days as the red leaders are asking, especially now,,,,, who is trying to make peace and who is trying to break it here,.....

I cannot remember any offers from PAD to sit down at the negotiating table when they occupied the airports.

When the police tried to break up their demonstration and 2 yellow-shirts died of explosions from teargas, they called the government terrorists.

If there is going to be any way forward, the double standards have to end.

You still live in that yellow submarine? We are talking about april 2010 now if you have forgotten that!

[yoshiwara]

BANGKOK: -- Ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra on Tuesday issued a statement condemning what he termed a campaign to smear him by promoting his name as the president of a "New Thai State".

"I condemn ill-intentioned people for what I see as a most malicious political smear," he said in the statement.

Thaksin said ill-intentioned people had distributed stickers with vicious message against him at Silom Road.

Well well Thaksin.

Does the truth hurt you and your fellow republicans i.e Arisman, Weng, Jutaporn to name but three of your little acolyte puppets ?

Thaksin would no doubt consider a declaration of UDI in the North once the Bangkok campaign is abandoned.

Splitting Thailand wouldn't bother Thaksin in principle.

He hasn't got any.

Red cheerleaders please look away.

[Ricardo]

Wow, at least 10,000. Very impressive. What percent is that of the 65,000,000 Thais? It's a shame that the Red leader and his henchmen can hold a country hostage with 10,000 hired demonstrators.

Yeah, like those stupid Thais who voted in Thaksin's proxy party before the coup held the country hostage.

26,293,456 of them.

Thako proxy party seats won: 233

dem seats won: 165

sorry were you talking about court ruling that dissolved all rival parties?

or the initial coup with big green tanks on the street? I wish you would narrow down the 'holding the country hostage' statements

Netfan, did you realise that people got up-to three votes, in the Constituency-Voting to which you refer, which is why the Proportional-Voting figure (one-man one-vote) of 14,071,799 is usually taken as more-accurate ? Not that the PPP didn't get significant support, which they did, but just approx 12 million less than you had suggested. An easy mistake to make.

If the army were all unarmed and the protesters were so well armed why do you think 20 protesters died and only 5 army personel on April 10?

Dunno ... because Takki's Terrorists shot their own people in-the-back, to help create an international incident ? Wait for the autopsy-results, on those bodies which weren't already 'liberated' from the hospitals, perhaps ?

[stevotoo]

Thako proxy party seats won: 233

dem seats won: 165

so how many voted for his party after the Coup??

Nobody voted...

well maybe 280 people did. I'm not sure.

Actually, now that you mention it.. The post coup elections played out like this for party list MP's given a total of 480 seats in the Lower House. Which BTW is who votes for the PM, and NOT the people. Oh and another thing, ALL the current MP's were voted for BY THE PEOPLE to be their representation.

Anyway, it breaks down like this;

PPP 310 (Samak) (PPP had NO stand alone majority or if they did why did they form a 6 party coalition)

Democrat Party 165 (Abhisit)

*5 MP's votes unaccounted for*

After Samak was axed for the "cooking show fiasco" the MP's voted like this for PPP's Somchai;

PPP 298 (Somchai) (AGAIN PPP had NO stand alone majority as a party but formed a 5 party coalition)

Democrat Party 163 (Abhisit)

*19 MP's votes unaccounted for*

After Somchai was axed Chaovarat became caretaker PM, as he was the "last man standing" (even though the constitution stipulates that the Prime Minister must be a member of the House of Representatives, and sadly Chaovarat was not. ..)

Then there was the FLIP of banned politician Newin Chidchob and his "Friends of Newin" group who defected from the Redz. The MPs that flipped came from various and sundry political parties but it is interesting to note they also came from the For Thais Party (Puea Thai, the successor of the PPP), the former Chart Thai Party, the Thais United National Development Party, the Neutral Democratic Party, and the infamous "Friends of Newin" faction of the former Peoples Power Party sided with the Demz. Those 32 MP's which Newin controls are the linchpin to the whole equation which gave the Demz the majority in a vote of MP's which looked like this:

Democrat Party 235 (Abhisit) (Demz also had NO stand alone majority but formed a coalition with the Friends of Newin Group MP's)

PTP 198 (Pracha Promnok)

*47 MP's votes unaccounted for*

There could be and probably is a margin of error in the numbers as they obviously don't add up to 480 each time and a person might ask why didn't an MP vote for PM..

I still can't find why 47 MP's votes in the last go round of voting in the Lower House are unaccounted for. It could be dubious googling, or bad information, but I found the numbers on a few internet sites.

That's the good bad and ugly of the Lower House voting which lead to where we are today boyz & gurls.

Carry on with your armchair political punditry <sic>, it's interesting to say the least.

The unaccounted for MPs are probably the red card receivers and disqualified from office -most of which were PT...

[Throatwobbler]

The reds will not succeed because they don't have a real cause and the whole movement consists of a core of may be less than 1000 paramilitary terrorists and their leaders. You can not claim that the Isaanies who were led to bangkok like cattle to the slaughterhouse real supporters since they do not have a clue what your real agenda is...

That just aint true. Whenever I go into a small shop here in CM, I see little postcards from Thako on the counter, I see red ribbons tied to car aerials. The Thai's love local politics, and it does pay well... sadly the Thai bar owner didn't win the local election a while back for the moobaan, probably because he is a drunk.. but nevertheless, the whole street helped rig up a pickup with speakers and naff posterboards of his smiling mugshot.

He lost and the best lady won. Her new road stopped just at his bar.

It will go on and on.

The natives are restless.

And if they win the next election and the yellows spit dummies, it means i will have to see more postcards and red mementos all over the place. But at least Bangkok folk are happy, thats the main thing...

That surprises me. I also live in Chiang mai and have been surprised by the lack of visible support for the reds. Yes there are some cars with red ribbons tied to the aerials, and yes I do see some pictures of Thaksin, but only in a small number of shops. If you count the number of cars/shops showing support to the number showing nothing you will see that it's only a small percentage that shows support. This has surprised me since the start of the demonstration because I thought we were living in Thaksin's heartland and I expected to see a lot larger show of support.

[gregb]

What if they disperse the reds now? 2 years from now, they will be back, stronger than ever, more angry than ever and more popular than ever. Thailand is about to be hit by major financial problems due to the last 4 years problems, and death on the streets would make this ten times worse. In the meantime, there is the possibility of armed attacks by the loved ones and friends of all the people you have killed. Think they are going back to their farms to forget about their dead father, mother, son etc. Think it if you want.

So now is 2010. The full aparatus of State, (Army, Government, Elite Backers and PAD) have failed after 4 years to kill the Red movement off. They going to be more successful in this modern era? An era where they are two or three generations older than the new voters and news savvy population. Even the Chinese can't control it and they are ruthless and seriously well organised and discplined in their approach.

Which is why there needs to be a 2 sided approach to this problem. First, eliminate Thaksin, who is the major element causing the problem. After that, all of the other issues can be handled through normal dialogue and compromise. Only Thaksin and his entourage have violent intentions of overthrowing the government. They need to disappear.

What you are missing is that very few people actually want violence. Only Thaksin and his ilk actually want to see death. This is not China and the culture is very different. Most people will talk, except for megalomaniac billionaires who thinks compromise is a sign of weakness and something that only applies to the other side.

The government is not evil. They are not trying to ignore the real problems faced by the rural poor. In fact, they have bent over backwards to try and help the people of Issan. The position you are espousing is nothing more than red propaganda. If Thaksin and the violence seekers were eliminated, the poor would still be poor, but they would not be violent. And they would probably actually be interested in listening to someone trying to help them solve their problems.

It would take another demagogue rising to power to manipulate the masses into another illogical frenzy, and if that is going to happen at all, it will happen independent of what the government does here today. Luckily, there are not many demagogues present on the planet at any one time in history, and it will probably be at least a generation before another rises up in Thailand.

So here's to a successful dispersion of the red riots. I lift my glass to the army in salute.

[britmaveric]

^let's raise our glass to another govt failure and misuse of the army.

[gregb]

in any reasonable democracy and democratic procedures one doesn't have to invest billions and instigate hatred and divisions to supposedly correct wrongs, people will get up themselves. Na Mr. Thaksin, ya hear me?

Demagogues always operate in this manner. Or did you not study Nazi Germany in school? Maybe you didn't have time to get to World War II in history class?

Actually, actions such as this go all the way back to the ancient Athenians. Demagogues are as old as democracy itself, and they always result in the destruction of the country in the end. They are a poison to the democratic system, but like good and evil, you can not have one without giving rise to the other.

This is why Thaksin can not be allowed to survive. He must be completely and utterly defeated right here and right now. Nothing less than the entire future of Thailand is at stake. He will not be allowed to return by anybody who cares about the country. His belief that he can win is misguided and myopic. The only way he can win is by poisoning the entire realm. And in the end, he may, in fact, adopt a scorched earth policy.

Let us pray for a quick termination to the antics of Thaksin the Divider. The world will be a better place once he is gone.

[britmaveric]

Let us pray for a quick termination to the antics

I agree Abhisit must go for the sake of thailand and all that is good.

[Tod Daniels]

Anyone got a pic of the new sticker making the rounds which has the red-rabble and Thaksin’s panties in a wad?

I think it might make a good t-shirt design. ..

[hammered]

Let us pray for a quick termination to the antics

I agree Abhisit must go for the sake of thailand and all that is good.

think you'll need to add the red leadership, Thaksin, the yellow leadership and Chavalit to that.

[gregb]

Let us pray for a quick termination to the antics

I agree Abhisit must go for the sake of thailand and all that is good.

I'll support the banishment of Abhisit BM if you'll support the banishment of Thaksin?

Deal? Or are you one of those reds who hates to compromise?

[britmaveric]

^Tis a deal mate - I suggested ages ago they lock Abhisit, and his cohorts, Khun T, Red Leaders, Yellow Leaders and military leaders all in the monkey house together. Guess we need to expand a bit... throw in Blue Shirts, Pink Shirts, Black Shirts... and any other coded leaders of these groups. I think they all deserve one another.

Edited April 20, 2010 by britmaveric

[brahmburgers]

Concerning the turning off of the power. This is the Thai way to gain power for a concert or any other event that requires power. They have a local electrician to connect into the power cables coming down the power pole above the local meter. It is called free power. I have seen it done many, many times here in Isaan. EGAT would have to kill the power to the street they are on to shut them down.

Is there anyone on this forum who knows how the Reds are getting their electricity? If the Reds are using EGAT power lines illegally, then it would be relatively easy and justified for authorities to shut it off. If the can't do it manually, get a sharpshooter to shoot the wires. There must be at least one soldier who can shoot straight. If protesters are using generators (my guess), then put a couple bullets through the generator. Bam bam, end of power, end of inflamatory speeches. Paid protesters get bored and go home to watch soaps. Oh, ....they need to get their ID cards first - sounds like a confrontational scenario.

Protestor; "I want to go home now, can get payment for the past few days and my ID card?"

Red sector leader; "you can't leave, we need all the bodies we can get to show a strong front."

Protestor; "pleeeaase let me leave. I have rice field to tend to."

Red sector leader; "No way. If you leave, you're a traitor to the cause."

Protestor; "Well, at least pay me what you promised, for the past few days."

Red sector leader; "You'll get compensation, but we're waiting for some money transfers from overseas. Don't be so impatient."

I still can't find why 47 MP's votes in the last go round of voting in the Lower House are unaccounted for.

MP's are Thais. Thais in gov't do as little work as possible while still maintaining their seats. Same for bureaucrats throughout Thailand, which MP's are. If you've ever walked in to a gov't office filled with workers, you'll see one or two doing something useful, and the rest shuffling papers and pretending they're working. All that's important for them is to maintain their position until the day they retire and get a cushy pension.

^let's raise our glass to another govt failure and misuse of the army.

Why? .....because that's what you want to see? I won't raise a glass with you on that.

[Redsunset]

Hysterical, heavily biased nonsense - just another day at the office for the Nation writers. This is not journalism.

why don't the reds just go home and wait for the 9 months,,,, there would have been no bloodshed by either side if they had returned to the negotiating table, there were still options offered to return to the negotiating table,,, and still the red leaders are not interested,,,,, I think it would be insane for anyone to think that it would be for the good of the country if the PM stepped down within 15 days as the red leaders are asking, especially now,,,,, who is trying to make peace and who is trying to break it here,.....

I cannot remember any offers from PAD to sit down at the negotiating table when they occupied the airports.

When the police tried to break up their demonstration and 2 yellow-shirts died of explosions from teargas, they called the government terrorists.

If there is going to be any way forward, the double standards have to end.

Reds cannot wait for nine months... rumor has it Thaksin has cancer and he might be dead by then, so he is probably enforcing the 15 days deadline. Moreover, the faster Thaksin dissolves Parliament the better chance he has of winning enough friends in the next election. His problem, however, is that the yellow shirts won't let anyone lead who even smells like Thaksin!

[Redsunset]

Thailand needs national unity

From: The Australian

April 20, 2010 12:00AM

The alternative is street fighting among political proxies

THE army was back on the streets of Bangkok yesterday, sending a signal to the Red Shirt protest movement that they should lift their siege of the city and a message to the world that everything was under control. Neither is believable, Thailand's problems run much deeper than the damage done by a large and very well organised protest movement. The Red Shirts support former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, deposed in a military coup in 2006. They want an election, which the exiled Thaksin's side would be likely to win. Despite widespread claims of corruption against him, his policies, including free healthcare for all, make him the darling of the rural poor. But no matter how decisive an election outcome, a vote would solve nothing unless it was accepted by Thaksin's opponents, who despise his populism, sneer at his supporters and can put their own private army on Bangkok's streets. These Yellow Shirts occupied the airport for two months at the end of 2008, and there is talk of their taking on Thaksin's supporter.

The stand-off in the streets places Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva in an impossible position. He was appointed, rather than elected, and has no credibility with Thaksin's camp. And the stand-off in the streets is a problem for the army, the usual arbiter of who governs. It seems the generals are loath to either shore up Mr Abhisit or, as they have often done before, take control themselves. The Red Shirts have too much popular support to be easily suppressed and there are suggestions there is sympathy for Thaksin's cause among rank and file soldiers. This was once the sort of situation solved by advice from King Bhumibol Adulyadej. But he is old and ill and shows no sign of intending to intervene.

And so it is up to the politicians. Mr Abhisit wants elections at the end of the year but last week army chief Anupong Paojinda called for an early poll. Given his tenuous position, the Prime Minister has little choice but to agree. Yet unless the political warlords agree to respect the popular vote and unless the winning side undertakes not to wreak revenge on the loser, the results will not matter much.

Without a government committed to national unity and an end to the existing entrenched animosities, Thailand faces the prospect of power going to the side with the toughest colour gang.

I would expect better from The Australian. At least get some of the facts right.

"including free healthcare for all" - not quite. It was Abhisit who made it free (only because it cost more than 30-baht to collect the 30-baht).

"Yellow Shirts occupied the airport for two months" - 9 days.

"He was appointed, rather than elected" - since when was he appointed?

"can put their own private army on Bangkok's streets" - what's he talking about?

"Mr Abhisit wants elections at the end of the year but last week army chief Anupong Paojinda called for an early poll." - failing to mention that the end of the year is 12 months early.

"Without a government committed to national unity and an end to the existing entrenched animosities, Thailand faces the prospect of power going to the side with the toughest colour gang."

There is very little chance of a national unity government. Unless the reds are in control, they won't accept it.

What's this about "free" health care???? My TGF had to pay 15,000 bht the other day to the hospital. Doesn't sound free to me.

Wow, 15,000 baht is a lot for here in Thailand, even at Bumrungrad... that is plastic surgery territory!

[whiterussian]

rumor has it Thaksin has cancer and he might be dead by then, so he is probably enforcing the 15 days deadline.

That might be a counter rumour to the rumour about somebody being in a coma.

regardless, seems highly unlikely to me. What a bloody waste of time!

Edited April 20, 2010 by whiterussian

[AZBill]

I agree. Incredibly biased and irresponsible reporting.

[OzMick]

As an opinion piece, I like it. I share much the same views, but Operation Payback is a bit crass. How about Reciprocity? Might be a bit hard for a thai.

The clearance will come quite soon, and if the red's secret army want to put in an appearance, so much the better. A few less murderous thugs won't hurt this country too much. I do hope the dupes with the clappers finally wake up and take their party home before it's too late, but I'm afraid that that may be wishful thinking.

By the way, do the special forces lads look like they are wearing sunblock and skin-whitening lotion?

[hammered]

I agree. Incredibly biased and irresponsible reporting.

You should try anything in the yellow or red media then. They just invent utter leis without a basis in reality. Quite amusing and worth read actually if you want amusement. Sadly some poor idiots believe it and are willing to die for it

[ChiangMaiFun]

As an opinion piece, I like it. I share much the same views, but Operation Payback is a bit crass. How about Reciprocity? Might be a bit hard for a thai.

The clearance will come quite soon, and if the red's secret army want to put in an appearance, so much the better. A few less murderous thugs won't hurt this country too much. I do hope the dupes with the clappers finally wake up and take their party home before it's too late, but I'm afraid that that may be wishful thinking.

By the way, do the special forces lads look like they are wearing sunblock and skin-whitening lotion?

Typical yellow 'kill them' mentality

[kraxlhuber]

Yet another sad piece of garbage.

Thanks for posting it though, it's good to see the depths this 'newspaper' has fallen to.

If the NATION just prints garbage, why do you have over 3,000 posts here? It seems you have a lot of spare time on your hands and you love to read garbage? Explain that to us please...

Today 20thof April is the anniversity of Adolf Hitler's birthday,

do you know how many poeple especially Seaman

army recruiting man(GI)celebrate that day?/

i guess nearly 200.000 souls,condatricte me if you know better.

These days, these times sucks.

Hey Thanh,heil adolf,

BTW

was sagste nun?

Edited April 20, 2010 by kraxlhuber

[Eurod]

What a disgraceful article - what are they thinking???

I have to agree.

I don't.

Thanks for that valuable contribution to an emotive subject. If you dont agree, then perhaps you could at least make an attempt at trying to justify such a crass comment.

[jdinasia]

As an opinion piece, I like it. I share much the same views, but Operation Payback is a bit crass. How about Reciprocity? Might be a bit hard for a thai.

The clearance will come quite soon, and if the red's secret army want to put in an appearance, so much the better. A few less murderous thugs won't hurt this country too much. I do hope the dupes with the clappers finally wake up and take their party home before it's too late, but I'm afraid that that may be wishful thinking.

By the way, do the special forces lads look like they are wearing sunblock and skin-whitening lotion?

Typical yellow 'kill them' mentality

Apparently you have failed to listen to the violent rhetoric spewed from the red stages by the red leaders ...

[kraxlhuber]

As an opinion piece, I like it. I share much the same views, but Operation Payback is a bit crass. How about Reciprocity? Might be a bit hard for a thai.

The clearance will come quite soon, and if the red's secret army want to put in an appearance, so much the better. A few less murderous thugs won't hurt this country too much. I do hope the dupes with the clappers finally wake up and take their party home before it's too late, but I'm afraid that that may be wishful thinking.

By the way, do the special forces lads look like they are wearing sunblock and skin-whitening lotion?

Sunblock=Ray-ban

Gunblock=is night gown

Loveblock =Thai Rak Thai,now TKT,Thai Kill Thai Party.

Thailand Democracy.

never was

never is never will be.

Because Thais dont know how to differenciate from left to right

[hammered]

As an opinion piece, I like it. I share much the same views, but Operation Payback is a bit crass. How about Reciprocity? Might be a bit hard for a thai.

The clearance will come quite soon, and if the red's secret army want to put in an appearance, so much the better. A few less murderous thugs won't hurt this country too much. I do hope the dupes with the clappers finally wake up and take their party home before it's too late, but I'm afraid that that may be wishful thinking.

By the way, do the special forces lads look like they are wearing sunblock and skin-whitening lotion?

Typical yellow 'kill them' mentality

Apparently you have failed to listen to the violent rhetoric spewed from the red stages by the red leaders ...

I find the Nation piece despicable. However, I always find it amusing that red apolologists criticise soemthing lkikje that but dont mention what comnes form the red stage, red media and red TV which by and large made this piece fairly run of th mill. Still I guess most people have their horse they back for one reasson or another. I will enjoy not backing any of the power hungry lunatics myself. The yellows back in th day were as bad as the reds now too

The lack of intellectual honesty in these debates is astounding as it descends into my gang arfe right and yours deserves to die

[animatic]

THE NATION: Arisman has threatened that red "army" will carry out "special ops" tonite, seizing ambulances and military vehicles.

This is the kind of guy everyone wants for their next door neighbor. I'm sure glad the reds are carrying on a peaceful rally. No telling what it would be if it was violent.

Really.

So,

would ANYONE be surprised if this Big Swinging Dick, ended up with his dick handed to him by weeks end.

If any one player seemed likely to do something REALY f'n stupid this week it will be Big A.

Arisman, Arisiman

does what ever a spider can...