Help, How Long Does A Relationshiphave To Be?

[glennsdaf]

We have just submitted my GFs Visitor Visa application, we paid for the visa check service and although it was just an opinion the lady who checked the application said that the only area she could see the application failing was on the length of our relationship.

We met on the 2nd of Febuary this year, instead of getting married on the back of a holiday romance and a long distance love affair we both thought it a good idea for her to come to England for six months, then she can decide if to marry me and live in England is what we both want. I have trawled through all of the Border Agencys and the VFS guide lines and can find no documented evidence to go on.

If the visa is rejected on these grounds how do I know when the time is right to re-apply.

[theoldgit]

Look it from the ECO's perspective, the applicant has known you for a couple of months and now wants to join you in the UK for a six month holiday.

You obviously realise that it's going to be virtually impossible for you both to prove a sustaining relationship, but can she prove strong ties to her home country and thus a reason to return? I suspect that given the fact she wants to go on a six month holiday she doesn't have a proper job. Does she own property or have other ties?

I really think you know the answer to the question, put yourself in the ECO's shoes, what decision would you make?

That said there are no hard and fast rules about the length of a relationship but I think with the circumstances you describe, you are setting yourselves up for a disappointment.

[glennsdaf]

Look it from the ECO's perspective, the applicant has known you for a couple of months and now wants to join you in the UK for a six month holiday.

You obviously realise that it's going to be virtually impossible for you both to prove a sustaining relationship, but can she prove strong ties to her home country and thus a reason to return? I suspect that given the fact she wants to go on a six month holiday she doesn't have a proper job. Does she own property or have other ties?

I really think you know the answer to the question, put yourself in the ECO's shoes, what decision would you make?

That said there are no hard and fast rules about the length of a relationship but I think with the circumstances you describe, you are setting yourselves up for a disappointment.

Her reasons to return are strong family ties, family land, young daugthers and the desire to return to Thailand and get married in November

I have submitted a sponsers portfolio containing 75 itemsed pages. I have also booked a flight toThailand for the 30th of May.

I just can not find a box to tick for the length of relationship question, because there isnt one. So when is a relationship too short or just right??

[binnsy]

One of there favourite reason for turning down visa's is

THE BALANCE OF ALL PROBABILITES IS THAT THE RELATIONSHIP WILL NOT LAST.

Goodluck

[theoldgit]

Her reasons to return are strong family ties, family land, young daugthers and the desire to return to Thailand and get married in November

I have submitted a sponsers portfolio containing 75 itemsed pages. I have also booked a flight toThailand for the 30th of May.

I just can not find a box to tick for the length of relationship question, because there isnt one. So when is a relationship too short or just right??

Strong family ties are ok, but I don't think ECO's put a lot of credence in the fact that your gf has two daughters, though I'm sure she does, remember a lot of Thai women leave their youngsters with family while they try and find a "better life" in the west. Is the family land in her name, she will need to convince the ECO the land is so much of a tie that she is likely to return because of it.

Whilst a sponsorship letter is an important part of the application I really think 75 pages is way over the top, again put yourself in the ECO's position, do you honestly think they are going to read 75 pages?

I don't want you to think that she has no chance, I am just trying to temper your expectations, I and other posters are on your side and we just play devils advocate, which is easier to do when we are not personally involved.

[samuibeachcomber]

how about 1 year?...........being with someone over 2 month period may not be long enough to convince the right people "this is a sustainable relationship".It might also help you in realising this too.

[theoldgit]

One of there favourite reason for turning down visa's is

THE BALANCE OF ALL PROBABILITES IS THAT THE RELATIONSHIP WILL NOT LAST.

Goodluck

And whilst that may be true ECO's are not meant to be judgemental, though it is up to you guys to convince the ECO that the relationship is sound, very difficult after such a short period.

[rgs2001uk]

One of there favourite reason for turning down visa's is

THE BALANCE OF ALL PROBABILITES IS THAT THE RELATIONSHIP WILL NOT LAST.

Goodluck

And whilst that may be true ECO's are not meant to be judgemental, though it is up to you guys to convince the ECO that the relationship is sound, very difficult after such a short period.

Another reason for not issuing the visa is, no compelling reason to return to Thailand.

[gotlost]

2.5 months NO CHANCE!

[glennsdaf]

2.5 months NO CHANCE!

you say no chance but can you you tell me what the time frame is as of yet no one has given me a concrete answer

[theoldgit]

2.5 months NO CHANCE!

you say no chance but can you you tell me what the time frame is as of yet no one has given me a concrete answer

Because nobody can give you a concrete answer.

If somebody sponsors an applicant they have only known for a very short period, like yours, it's going to be very difficult to get a visa, everything is stacked against her. This lady has two children yet she can drop everything and swan off to the UK for a six month holiday. On the other hand if she is a successful, land owning, business woman who needs to return to Thailand to meets the needs of her business, but can still afford to take a six month holiday, then she might have a chance as she wouldn't need a sponsor.

You mention in your earlier post about a "Visa checking service", is this a service that VFS provide, if so I doubt if it's any more than checking the papers submitted, they certainly are not competent to say if entry clearance will be given.

[sumrit]

2.5 months NO CHANCE!

you say no chance but can you you tell me what the time frame is as of yet no one has given me a concrete answer

The ECO's like to see that a relationship has progressed and developed over a period of time and 2.5 months isn't long enough to see anything much more than a holiday romance. As samuibeachcomber said somewhere approaching a year is a more realistic time frame for the ECO assess things.

Also applying to come for six months to see if things work out between you is not the sort of reason for a visit visa the ECO is looking for. I've known of several people in the past who've had visas refused for this. The ECO will (probably) say that if your long term intention is is to live together in the UK then you SHOULD be applying for a settlement visa, firstly because a visit visa is just that, it's not a 'trial marriage visa', and secondly he'll say if things do work out between you in the UK then your g/f is unlikely to want to travel back to Thailand (with all the cost involved) to get the correct settlement visa.

If you then add the required 'reason to return to Thailand' (needed for a visit visa) to the equation then I think the ECO would become even more reluctant at the moment. As the old git says family ties don't hold much weight as a lot of Thais leave their children almost permanently with family while they move away to work. Returning for work, owning property and land that she would need to return to Thailand for are better. And for those sort of reasons a Thai would be unlikely to be able to take a six month holiday.

Probably the best advise would be take things slowly for now, and read through some of the threads on this (and other) forums. There's plenty here where people have had visas refused because they rushed in without understanding the 'system' and not preparing their applications properly.

Good Luck.

[learningcurve]

I believe that ECO's do not look at a visit to the UK is for the 'couple' to get to know each other better. You should already be in an established relationship that can be proven by documented evidence. As other posters have said, I don't think that a few months relationship will cut it. You never know, she may get issued with a visitor visa, however if she does get refused at least when you reapply in several months time you will have documented evidence of the length of your relationship in the form of a refusal notice. Good luck.

[mark515]

My girlfriend now wife I got her a 6 month Tourist Visa after 3.5 months.

I think its down to your supporting documents to prove a good relationship.

We had:

Daily telephone calls lots.

Lots of daily SMS

2 trips to Thailand and a 3rd while waiting for the visa.

Daily MSN chat sometimes up to 10 hours a day.

Photos together

Daily Emails

All the above was documented and included with the application. Along with out future plans accomodation and my finacial position.

Reason to return was covered by her daughter and family, Her apartment fully paid for the 6 month duration and the fact that we intend to marry and dont want to ruin any future applications.

I guess on the balance of probabilty we proved the requirements.

Our application was returned in 7 working days in August 2009.

[RAZZELL]

My girlfriend now wife I got her a 6 month Tourist Visa after 3.5 months.

I think its down to your supporting documents to prove a good relationship.

We had:

Daily telephone calls lots.

Lots of daily SMS

2 trips to Thailand and a 3rd while waiting for the visa.

Daily MSN chat sometimes up to 10 hours a day.

Photos together

Daily Emails

All the above was documented and included with the application. Along with out future plans accomodation and my finacial position.

Reason to return was covered by her daughter and family, Her apartment fully paid for the 6 month duration and the fact that we intend to marry and dont want to ruin any future applications.

I guess on the balance of probabilty we proved the requirements.

Our application was returned in 7 working days in August 2009.

You obviously put together a well-argued and well-presented application

I'm applying at the end of the month, I've known my gf for nearly 2 years and I'm still a bit apprehensive

RAZZ

Edited April 20, 2010 by RAZZELL

[7by7]

As said, it is the strength of the relationship that is important, not the length of it. You cannot find a minimum time anywhere, because there isn't one.

You've only known her since February. How much of that time were you actually in Thailand with her?

Have you met her family, especially her daughters?

One very important point, already touched upon by theoldgit; you say in your OP

we paid for the visa check service

There is no such service offered by the UKVAC nor the embassy!

As theoldgit says, staff at the UKVAC will check the paperwork is complete and advise if it isn't; but that is all they will do and they do not make any extra charge for this; it's standard for all applications.

Whoever you paid is an agent, and is attempting to convince you to use their services. Therefore they will be painting a bleak picture for their own purpose. Avoid them. If you need advice, ask here. If you want to use an agent, read this first.

[witold]

Her reasons to return are strong family ties, family land, young daugthers and the desire to return to Thailand and get married in November

I have submitted a sponsers portfolio containing 75 itemsed pages. I have also booked a flight toThailand for the 30th of May.

I just can not find a box to tick for the length of relationship question, because there isnt one. So when is a relationship too short or just right??

Use a little common sense. 2.5 months? I've had longer relationships in grade schools. Once you start looking at 1+ year of you and her actually being together, then it will start looking like a real relationship.

As I read above, the only reason she may have to return to LOS is young daughters. Other things don't really sound like convincing reasons at all. So you guys should probably stress the fact that she has young kids, but if I was immigration, I would ask why she is going on 6 month vacation leaving her kids... (In other words, if she is willing to leave her young kids for 6 months, she is probably willing to overstay her visa for a lot longer...) Uphill battle for sure... look at things from immigration's point of view to structure your arguments... post some updates on how things progress...

[david96]

I think they look at it this way, one may be wrong.

Is the Applicant legally married? Y/N

Is the Applicant living in a common law (de-facto arrangement)? Y/N

If (N) to the above the Applicant can only be classified as a friend.

The Applicant is required to prove that she can comply with the criteria for the visa applied for.

Her friend ( a UK citizen) can guarantee support, eg financial/ accomodation etc.

If her friend can provide the required guarantees she will, on the balance of probabilities, most likely be granted a visa.

[theoldgit]

^^^^

I really think this is an over simplification, for sure they will look at the relationship, I'm no expert but they will not only want to be satisfied that the sponsor can afford to pay for the trip, if that's actually what is being proposed, but that it's reasonable to do so.

But you have left out the most important thing, the reason to return, after all that's the real reason that many visa applications fail, and is the reason that visas are required.

[david96]

^^^^

I really think this is an over simplification, for sure they will look at the relationship, I'm no expert but they will not only want to be satisfied that the sponsor can afford to pay for the trip, if that's actually what is being proposed, but that it's reasonable to do so.

But you have left out the most important thing, the reason to return, after all that's the real reason that many visa applications fail, and is the reason that visas are required.

That is covered in the criteria for the type of visa applied for.

She as the applicant has to fill in the application form correctly and answer any questions.

[Will27]

Bloody hel_l mate.

In a post in March you said you're still

legally married. How long have you been

separated?

<deleted>....what's the hurry?

You've known the girl for 10 minutes.

Can I ask how old you both are?

As you've applied for a 6 month visa,

you've never said what type of employment

you girlfriend has, which can be crucial.

Especially if she had a secure job.

I can see the danger signs alreay.

All the best.

Will

[sumrit]

I think they look at it this way, one may be wrong.

Is the Applicant legally married? Y/N

Is the Applicant living in a common law (de-facto arrangement)? Y/N

If (N) to the above the Applicant can only be classified as a friend.

The Applicant is required to prove that she can comply with the criteria for the visa applied for.

Her friend ( a UK citizen) can guarantee support, eg financial/ accomodation etc.

If her friend can provide the required guarantees she will, on the balance of probabilities, most likely be granted a visa.

You are wrong.

Many a visa has been refused simply because the couple have not provided proof that they were in a genuine relationship.

A friends (then) g/f was initially refused because of this. They thought that because she had lived in his house in Thailand for three years and he was there for six months of the year that was proof enough. They were wrong.

The ECO said that "although he accepted she lived in his house they didn't provide any proof they were in a relationship and she could just be a housekeeper".

Edited April 21, 2010 by sumrit

[mark515]

Another point in my girlfriends application for 6 months, We also stated we would return to Thailand after 2 or 3 months to see her Daughter and family.

Which we did. No ticket was booked just mentioned in the application.

I also included lots of tourist brochures from the local attractions

I also have a Thai failed marriage which I thought would go against us, But I was 100% honest I told the ECO the story and that we made mistakes rushed into marriage and once in the UK it did not work. I stated I did not want this to happen again so this 6 month visit will help to develope the relationship.

I was still married at the time of the application for my girlfriend.

We did return to Thailand in November 2009 at which time the ex gold digger and me divorced and she did not get a single £ or baht.

The application was supported well.

Any question the ECO could ask was covered and must of been as no questions asked and visa issued in days.

[Jonathanpattaya]

And whilst that may be true ECO's are not meant to be judgemental, though it is up to you guys to convince the ECO that the relationship is sound, very difficult after such a short period.

ECO's are to be VERY judgemental. It is their job!

[theoldgit]

ECO's are to be VERY judgemental. It is their job!

No it's not, their job is to make a judgement on the facts provided in the application, not to be judgemental, there is a subtle difference.

[Scully]

I am sorry to say that I wouldn't grant her a visa on the grounds of wanting to leave her children and family alone after such a brief romance.

It took my girlfriend 10 months of us living together in Thailand before she decided she would come to the UK with me for 6 months and even then she didn't really want to leave her son. She thought if she didn't come with me then i wouldn't come back and after 10 months we only just started collecting evidence so at least you have the opportunity to document the relationship from now.

If I was you I would try to get to know her better because as many know a relationship with a Thai woman can be very difficult and it takes time to cement it.

[Jonathanpattaya]

ECO's are to be VERY judgemental. It is their job!

No it's not, their job is to make a judgement on the facts provided in the application, not to be judgemental, there is a subtle difference.

Yes, OK.

[wobblyjohn]

If I was you I would try to get to know her better because as many know a relationship with a Thai woman can be very difficult and it takes time to cement it.

I'm still cementing mine and we have been together 6 years and married for 3

I don't think they will allow her to enter the uk if she doesn't have a return ticket, even if she does then they will frown upon anything longer than a one month stay having a visa doesn't guarantee entry

If she does stay longer than she intends it could make things difficult should she apply for a second visa

[RAZZELL]

I'm applying at the end of the month, I've known my gf for nearly 2 years and I'm still a bit apprehensive

RAZZ

I know it's bad form to reply to your own posts...But actually it's over 3 years (first couple just "friends") :D

To get back to the OP.

I went for a drink with a mate on wednesday night who's an ECO in Manila.

Basically as a "general visitor" you have to satisfy the requirements in Section 41 of the Immigration Rules.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyan...ionrules/part2/

Although there are requirements about what documents to include it is obviously "up to you" how you prove this...and "up to them" how they want to interpret this proof

He checked my "sponsors letter" and I told him about other evidence of our "subsisting and ongoing" relationship, etc etc etc.

He said he would be "minded" to grant a Visit Visa if he was assessing it. BUT every application and every ECO are different. You get them on a bad day or when they're busy and you might be out of luck.

One useful piece of advice - He told me it is essential to lay out the application clearly and in sections in a ring binder. Highlight relevant points with a marker pen to make the ECO's job easier. A well-organised, well-planned, application is so much more liable to be granted. He said it just says so much about the applicant and the sponsor...ie they take their relationship and the visor application seriously.

All the best

RAZZ

P.S. Personally I'd apply after your next visit.

Edited April 25, 2010 by RAZZELL

[khaowong1]

^^^^

I really think this is an over simplification, for sure they will look at the relationship, I'm no expert but they will not only want to be satisfied that the sponsor can afford to pay for the trip, if that's actually what is being proposed, but that it's reasonable to do so.

But you have left out the most important thing, the reason to return, after all that's the real reason that many visa applications fail, and is the reason that visas are required.

this is it in a nutshell, the reason to return. Just having two children is not a valid reason to return. Many Thai women leave their children to their parents to raise and the embassy's know this. She needs both money in the bank, a very good job, waitress at a noodle stand won't work, verifiable residence, renting an apartment won't work. If she can't show that she really has no valid reason to return to Thailand, your out of luck..

Edited April 25, 2010 by 7by7
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