Thai 'Red Shirts' Rule Out Talks Despite Looming Crackdown

[webfact]

Thai 'Red Shirts' rule out talks despite looming crackdown

by Anusak Konglang

BANGKOK (AFP) -- Thailand's "Red Shirt" protesters on Wednesday ruled out talks with the government despite fears of a crackdown that has seen them fortify their rally base with home-made barricades.

Jatuporn Prompan, a core leader of the red-shirted campaigners who are pushing for fresh elections, said talks were "out of the question" after street clashes in Bangkok earlier this month that left 25 people dead.

"It's impossible to hold negotiations between killers and those who have been killed," he said.

Entrances to the vast Reds encampment, which has engulfed Bangkok's upscale retail district, were blocked with barriers made from bamboo poles and car tyres draped with plastic sheeting.

Piles of sharpened bamboo sticks and broken paving stones have been stockpiled, triggering fears of new confrontations with the security forces, which have warned they will respond with tear gas and live weapons fire.

Tensions are running high after April 10 clashes, sparked by a failed attempt to dislodge the protesters, which left 19 Red Shirts, five members of the security forces and one foreign journalist dead.

The Reds said they are now braced for action from security forces, who have warned they will use tear gas and live weapons fire if necessary against the protesters who have mounted four weeks of rolling street rallies.

Red leaders denied allegations they are hoarding weapons, and hit out at army warnings that troops are authorised to use lethal force.

"The government is subtly preparing for a brutal crackdown on us. Please stop trying to find a reason to kill innocent people," said senior Red figure Nattawut Saikuar.

"Anyone with common sense can see that we cannot fight against assault rifles like M16s armed only with sharpened bamboo," he said. "We are not terrorists but have come here empty-handed to call for democracy."

Protesters were forced Tuesday to cancel plans to march from their base to the nearby Silom financial district after thousands of troops descended with assault weapons and razor wire to secure the area.

Hundreds of members of the security forces and Red Shirts are now facing off at the perimeter of the two zones, separated by a long stretch of the makeshift barricade.

Protesters waved flags, played music and rallied the crowd in speeches broadcast over large speakers, while overhead armed troops patrolled from pedestrian walkways screened off with black netting.

The Reds have said they are focused on bolstering numbers at their rally camp, which stretches along four kilometres (2.5 miles) of some of Bangkok's major thoroughfares, ahead of an offensive they expect before next Monday.

Besieged shopping centres and hotels have been forced to close amid the mayhem, worsening the damage to the economy of the tourist paradise and its reputation as the "land of smiles".

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, who is defying calls to quit and call fresh elections, has said the government is determined to rout the Red Shirts and did not rule out the prospect of martial law being declared.

"Security officials are not complacent, we will take quick action and do it to the best of our ability. The government does not want to see protracted protests but it's not easy as they are armed," he said Monday.

The protesters are mainly supporters of former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, who was ousted in a 2006 coup and is living in exile to avoid a jail sentence for corruption.

The Reds, who draw much of their support from the rural poor, say Abhisit's government is undemocratic because it came to power in a parliamentary vote after a court ruling removed Thaksin's allies from office.

-- ©Copyright AFP 2010-04-21

Published with written approval from AFP.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[anotherpeter]

Someone was wrong:-

BangkokDan: Reuters reports red shirts open to talks to avoid crackdown

edit: maybe they got a call during the day and got their minds changed for them.

Jatuporn Prompan, a core leader of the red-shirted campaigners who are pushing for fresh elections, said talks were "out of the question" after street clashes in Bangkok earlier this month that left 25 people dead.

"It's impossible to hold negotiations between killers and those who have been killed," he said.

Maybe if they had held negotiations earlier, no one would have been killed.

"Anyone with common sense can see that we cannot fight against assault rifles like M16s armed only with sharpened bamboo," he said. "We are not terrorists but have come here empty-handed to call for democracy."

"empty-handed" with sharpened bamboo?

And based on the 10 April riots, they won't be empty handed.

Edited April 21, 2010 by anotherpeter

[outback200]

Why did'nt the army and police force crackdown on the yellow protestors when they took over government house and the two Bangkok airports. If they had have done the present situation with the Red Shirts might not have happened.

[Neurath]

Why did'nt the army and police force crackdown on the yellow protestors when they took over government house and the two Bangkok airports. If they had have done the present situation with the Red Shirts might not have happened.

So what?

Unless you're saying because they didn't crack down on the lunatic yellows they shouldn't crack down on the lunatic reds?

Is that what you're saying?

[dru2]

Why did'nt the army and police force crackdown on the yellow protestors when they took over government house and the two Bangkok airports. If they had have done the present situation with the Red Shirts might not have happened.

So what?

Unless you're saying because they didn't crack down on the lunatic yellows they shouldn't crack down on the lunatic reds?

Is that what you're saying?

That's what he saying. Whinge, whinge, whinge, like a broken record. Never mind the yellow past - the present problem is red and it needs sweeping away.

[givenall]

Someone was wrong:-

BangkokDan: Reuters reports red shirts open to talks to avoid crackdown

edit: maybe they got a call during the day and got their minds changed for them.

Jatuporn Prompan, a core leader of the red-shirted campaigners who are pushing for fresh elections, said talks were "out of the question" after street clashes in Bangkok earlier this month that left 25 people dead.

"It's impossible to hold negotiations between killers and those who have been killed," he said.

Maybe if they had held negotiations earlier, no one would have been killed.

"Anyone with common sense can see that we cannot fight against assault rifles like M16s armed only with sharpened bamboo," he said. "We are not terrorists but have come here empty-handed to call for democracy."

"empty-handed" with sharpened bamboo?

And based on the 10 April riots, they won't be empty handed.

The only word the government need to say is get the hel_l out of here NOW, or will face severe consequence

[britmaveric]

^protesters should say to the govt - equally be prepared for the consequences of your actions.

[jdinasia]

^protesters should say to the govt - equally be prepared for the consequences of your actions.

I am sure the government is prepared for the consequences of dealing with an illegal street protest led by Thaksin cronies that are preaching violence. They have been patient to the point of being seen as weak until the reds attacked Thaicom and 1st Regiment and used petrol bombs ... and after the reds did that they started crying about being pushed back.

The fact that Sae Daeng's Ronin's --- called terrorists by the rest of Thailand---- then upped the stakes should be lost on nobody.

We have Red shirt leadership calling for violence --red shirts attacking government installations ---red shirts using weapons --- Pretty clearly the charges of sedition and treason will stick and that should be the end of them.

[saintofsilence]

Twitter link

Ppl who are not involved. Stay the xxxx out of silom tonight till after 9 am tmmrw. Trust me on this.

http://twitter.com/fishmyman

[scorecard]

^protesters should say to the govt - equally be prepared for the consequences of your actions.

I am sure the government is prepared for the consequences of dealing with an illegal street protest led by Thaksin cronies that are preaching violence. They have been patient to the point of being seen as weak until the reds attacked Thaicom and 1st Regiment and used petrol bombs ... and after the reds did that they started crying about being pushed back.

The fact that Sae Daeng's Ronin's --- called terrorists by the rest of Thailand---- then upped the stakes should be lost on nobody.

We have Red shirt leadership calling for violence --red shirts attacking government installations ---red shirts using weapons --- Pretty clearly the charges of sedition and treason will stick and that should be the end of them.

A convicted criminal creates havoc across a nation then when he doesn't get his own way and his cronies are on the verge of getting thrashed, some even possibly getting killed, he's silent, he doesn't show any support, what a coward.

Longer-term I hope that Thailand learns a very deep / critical lesson - amend the constitution so that it is absolutely impossible for one man / one group to gain unchallengeable power and control.

[fxe1200]

Why did'nt the army and police force crackdown on the yellow protestors when they took over government house and the two Bangkok airports. If they had have done the present situation with the Red Shirts might not have happened.

As one knows, the yellows protestet peacefully but unsuccessfully against the PPP from June 2008 . The PPP was clinging to power though they had been convicted of vote buying by the EC in May 2008. The PPP also obstructed the coming together of the Constitutional Court, to avoid its verdict as long as possible. When the yellows then occupied the airport, the pressure on the PPP increased, with the result that the CC came together and judged the long overdue verdict, with the removal of the PPP from the government as the logical result.

These facts lead to a very different evaluation of the demonstrations in 2008 and the paid mob on the streets of Bangkok with their rogue leaders, who once (not all of them) were responsible for the vote buying, and now have problems with their role in the opposition.

[dobadoy]

^protesters should say to the govt - equally be prepared for the consequences of your actions.

I am sure the government is prepared for the consequences of dealing with an illegal street protest led by Thaksin cronies that are preaching violence. They have been patient to the point of being seen as weak until the reds attacked Thaicom and 1st Regiment and used petrol bombs ... and after the reds did that they started crying about being pushed back.

The fact that Sae Daeng's Ronin's --- called terrorists by the rest of Thailand---- then upped the stakes should be lost on nobody.

We have Red shirt leadership calling for violence --red shirts attacking government installations ---red shirts using weapons --- Pretty clearly the charges of sedition and treason will stick and that should be the end of them.

Agreed. And let's not forget the bombings of banks and public institutions, one in which two young girls were hurt the other day, and the RPG attack on soldiers at Victory monument last month. I wonder which peaceful party in this scenario also bombed the power lines into Bangkok?

Since the drubbing Abhisit gave all three red leaders on national TV, I'm sure Thaksin has told them to stay away from the "negotiation trap" - after all, he wouldn't want an amicable resolutin of the people's problems now, would he?

It's ironic that the "President Thaksin" smear campaign was so close to the truth that he doth protest too much, methinks.

[Lodestone]

I'm not sure how the army can even go about forcibly evicting the Red Shirts. Every time it's mentioned it seems two gathered forces are imagined opposing each other at the Ratchaprasong intersection itself, when the reality is the Reds have a manned encampment that stretches along one axis for a mile from the Chitlom intersection to MBK and along another axis for a mile and a half from Petchaburi to Silom. Trying to agressively push a combined army/police force through all that can only result in mass casualties and deaths on both sides.

[saintofsilence]

I'm not sure how the army can even go about forcibly evicting the Red Shirts. Every time it's mentioned it seems two gathered forces are imagined opposing each other at the Ratchaprasong intersection itself, when the reality is the Reds have a manned encampment that stretches along one axis for a mile from the Chitlom intersection to MBK and along another axis for a mile and a half from Petchaburi to Silom. Trying to agressively push a combined army/police force through all that can only result in mass casualties and deaths on both sides.

There will be casualties but they will specific targets and shot from a long distance.

[pedro01]

Why did'nt the army and police force crackdown on the yellow protestors when they took over government house and the two Bangkok airports. If they had have done the present situation with the Red Shirts might not have happened.

So what?

Unless you're saying because they didn't crack down on the lunatic yellows they shouldn't crack down on the lunatic reds?

Is that what you're saying?

You should put that question to the people leading the government at that time dontcha think ?

[Neurath]

Why did'nt the army and police force crackdown on the yellow protestors when they took over government house and the two Bangkok airports. If they had have done the present situation with the Red Shirts might not have happened.

So what?

Unless you're saying because they didn't crack down on the lunatic yellows they shouldn't crack down on the lunatic reds?

Is that what you're saying?

You should put that question to the people leading the government at that time dontcha think ?

Not sure who you're asking Pedro, me or Outback - because of your avatar I'm not sure who you're looking at.

[britmaveric]

There will be casualties but they will specific targets and shot from a long distance.

Very well could be the military command and control again.

[pedro01]

Why did'nt the army and police force crackdown on the yellow protestors when they took over government house and the two Bangkok airports. If they had have done the present situation with the Red Shirts might not have happened.

So what?

Unless you're saying because they didn't crack down on the lunatic yellows they shouldn't crack down on the lunatic reds?

Is that what you're saying?

You should put that question to the people leading the government at that time dontcha think ?

Not sure who you're asking Pedro, me or Outback - because of your avatar I'm not sure who you're looking at.

LOL - it was outback ! No idea how I managed to quote you.

This interweb thing is tricky, isn't it ?

[jdinasia]

Why did'nt the army and police force crackdown on the yellow protestors when they took over government house and the two Bangkok airports. If they had have done the present situation with the Red Shirts might not have happened.

I am sorry that you failed to pay attention in 2008 ---- but this is 2010. Feel free to go back and research the past!)

[danc]

I'm not sure how the army can even go about forcibly evicting the Red Shirts. Every time it's mentioned it seems two gathered forces are imagined opposing each other at the Ratchaprasong intersection itself, when the reality is the Reds have a manned encampment that stretches along one axis for a mile from the Chitlom intersection to MBK and along another axis for a mile and a half from Petchaburi to Silom. Trying to agressively push a combined army/police force through all that can only result in mass casualties and deaths on both sides.

There will be casualties but they will specific targets and shot from a long distance.

Thanks for the heads-up on the inside line.

[geriatrickid]

Clearing out the protest site will not be easy. see for yourself. Go and kick a wasp's nest. Yes, you can destroy the nest, but there will be a lot of agitated wasps buzzing around. No matter how well protected you are, a few are going to manage to sting you. It isn't a major health issue if you are able to take a few stings, but if you are allergic to wasp venom, all it takes is 1 jab and off you go into shock. A few more and you have cardiac arrest and then it's off to the funeral home.

The go slow approach with increased displays of "power" are sufficient to discourage many protestors. This incessant demand for an immediate "Go crack some skulls" will only make matters worse. I believe we are at the turning point and a few gentle nudges will bring this to an end. Despite angry comments to the contrary, the authorities are making progress. The protestors are contained in one area, other protest areas have been dealt with, ingress and egress is controlled and the situation is controlled. Let the authorities proceed at the current pace and this will come to a peaceful end. There is no need to create martyrs. Patience.

[Neurath]

Clearing out the protest site will not be easy. see for yourself. Go and kick a wasp's nest. Yes, you can destroy the nest, but there will be a lot of agitated wasps buzzing around. No matter how well protected you are, a few are going to manage to sting you. It isn't a major health issue if you are able to take a few stings, but if you are allergic to wasp venom, all it takes is 1 jab and off you go into shock. A few more and you have cardiac arrest and then it's off to the funeral home.

The go slow approach with increased displays of "power" are sufficient to discourage many protestors. This incessant demand for an immediate "Go crack some skulls" will only make matters worse. I believe we are at the turning point and a few gentle nudges will bring this to an end. Despite angry comments to the contrary, the authorities are making progress. The protestors are contained in one area, other protest areas have been dealt with, ingress and egress is controlled and the situation is controlled. Let the authorities proceed at the current pace and this will come to a peaceful end. There is no need to create martyrs. Patience.

Whatever one thinks about the current situation this is sage advice.

[lannarebirth]

Clearing out the protest site will not be easy. see for yourself. Go and kick a wasp's nest. Yes, you can destroy the nest, but there will be a lot of agitated wasps buzzing around. No matter how well protected you are, a few are going to manage to sting you. It isn't a major health issue if you are able to take a few stings, but if you are allergic to wasp venom, all it takes is 1 jab and off you go into shock. A few more and you have cardiac arrest and then it's off to the funeral home.

The go slow approach with increased displays of "power" are sufficient to discourage many protestors. This incessant demand for an immediate "Go crack some skulls" will only make matters worse. I believe we are at the turning point and a few gentle nudges will bring this to an end. Despite angry comments to the contrary, the authorities are making progress. The protestors are contained in one area, other protest areas have been dealt with, ingress and egress is controlled and the situation is controlled. Let the authorities proceed at the current pace and this will come to a peaceful end. There is no need to create martyrs. Patience.

AMEN!

[LevelHead]

Twitter link

Ppl who are not involved. Stay the xxxx out of silom tonight till after 9 am tmmrw. Trust me on this.

http://twitter.com/fishmyman

Yep, you now know why the Reds erected all the bamboo barricades.

To keep the violent PAD/Yellow/Multicolors out.

The PAD want to invoke violence, they will try tonight it seems.

Hope the barricades hold or many will be killed due to PAD starting violence against Reds.

[scorecard]

Someone was wrong:-

BangkokDan: Reuters reports red shirts open to talks to avoid crackdown

edit: maybe they got a call during the day and got their minds changed for them.

Jatuporn Prompan, a core leader of the red-shirted campaigners who are pushing for fresh elections, said talks were "out of the question" after street clashes in Bangkok earlier this month that left 25 people dead.

"It's impossible to hold negotiations between killers and those who have been killed," he said.

Maybe if they had held negotiations earlier, no one would have been killed.

"Anyone with common sense can see that we cannot fight against assault rifles like M16s armed only with sharpened bamboo," he said. "We are not terrorists but have come here empty-handed to call for democracy."

"empty-handed" with sharpened bamboo?

And based on the 10 April riots, they won't be empty handed.

During today jatuporn has said:

- We have no weapons, then

- We only have sharpened banboo sticks.

Always the liar. Anybody think this guy should be in power? Hope not!

[scorecard]

Why did'nt the army and police force crackdown on the yellow protestors when they took over government house and the two Bangkok airports. If they had have done the present situation with the Red Shirts might not have happened.

Why didn't WHO crack down on the yellow protestors?

[rabo]

Why did'nt the army and police force crackdown on the yellow protestors when they took over government house and the two Bangkok airports. If they had have done the present situation with the Red Shirts might not have happened.

The airports were closed only for one week before the Constitutional Court ruled to disband PM Somchai, (Thaksin's brother-in-law) and his party for illegal voter fraud in the elections. Since the Constitutional Court was already working on the case, sending the army to clear the demonstrators may not have made sense. Also, there may have been less interest on the part of the military / establishment as it was their third attempt to rid the country of Thaksin and his corruption.

Edited April 21, 2010 by rabo

[dobadoy]

Yep, you now know why the Reds erected all the bamboo barricades.

To keep the violent PAD/Yellow/Multicolors out.

The PAD want to invoke violence, they will try tonight it seems.

Hope the barricades hold or many will be killed due to PAD starting violence against Reds.

[zorm999]

Clearing out the protest site will not be easy. see for yourself. Go and kick a wasp's nest. Yes, you can destroy the nest, but there will be a lot of agitated wasps buzzing around. No matter how well protected you are, a few are going to manage to sting you. It isn't a major health issue if you are able to take a few stings, but if you are allergic to wasp venom, all it takes is 1 jab and off you go into shock. A few more and you have cardiac arrest and then it's off to the funeral home.

The go slow approach with increased displays of "power" are sufficient to discourage many protestors. This incessant demand for an immediate "Go crack some skulls" will only make matters worse. I believe we are at the turning point and a few gentle nudges will bring this to an end. Despite angry comments to the contrary, the authorities are making progress. The protestors are contained in one area, other protest areas have been dealt with, ingress and egress is controlled and the situation is controlled. Let the authorities proceed at the current pace and this will come to a peaceful end. There is no need to create martyrs. Patience.

I SO hope you are right. The government has been very patient until now. Let's hope they deal with this very carefully and see it through peacefully.

[landofthefree]

Twitter link

Ppl who are not involved. Stay the xxxx out of silom tonight till after 9 am tmmrw. Trust me on this.

http://twitter.com/fishmyman

Yep, you now know why the Reds erected all the bamboo barricades.

To keep the violent PAD/Yellow/Multicolors out.

The PAD want to invoke violence, they will try tonight it seems.

Hope the barricades hold or many will be killed due to PAD starting violence against Reds.

If there is a fight between the two my money is on the red army of hard Isaan farmers against the elite middle aged women that I always see wearing yellow shirts. Time will tell and I hope it doesnt come to violence.