Bangkok: Assailants Fired M-79 Grenades At Sala Daeng Skytrain Station

[Mario2008]

1 post deleted and 3 responss to it. We don't allow use of names as abishit or toxin. Use the correct name or the post gets deleted.

[KhaoNiaw]

Sorry, forgot to give a reference link: http://twitter.com/markmackinnon You'll have to look back into his tweets from last night.

There were also a few tweets around the time it all happened from http://twitter.com/RonG1112 (not a journo, just at his condo I think) who saw firing from the Park. Again, not conclusive, but it would be a huge coincidence for the fireworks and M79 not to be connected.

I wouldn't believe anything Suthep says either. I think my favourite is Weng though - I don't know how he keeps a straight face. And some of the Reds I know believe every word.

Edited April 23, 2010 by KhaoNiaw

[quiksilva]

NEWS FLASH:

There cannot be any confusion . We probably will never know who launched the grenades.

But , it is fair to say we do have proof that this whole confrontation was provoked by the government !!!

If not, why would the government under any circumstances let the yellow shirts get near the reds to antagonize the situation. IF SILOM ROAD WAS DECLARED OFF LIMITS TO THE REDS ,,, WHY WERE THE YELLOWS ALLOWED TO PROTEST ,, AND CONGREGATE THERE . Why the double standard ? No government can claim to be that stupid ,,, and certainly not this one ,,, it was planned its obvious.

I was going to write a long reply , but its simpler to say you are wrong and each and every count. I wont bother to explain why as I can tell the effort would be wasted on you.

Edited April 23, 2010 by quiksilva

[Thai at Heart]

onnected.

I wouldn't believe anything Suthep says either. I think my favourite is Weng though - I don't know how he keeps a straight face. And some of the Reds I know believe every word.

From Mark Mackinnon's tweets

http://twitter.com/markmackinnon

What I saw/heard were fireworks fired from Red side over police barricade. Not M79s, as some reporting

Yes. exactly. Bad reporting not helping tense situation RT @ RT @terryfrd: ASTV says police say it was likely firework not M79 as reported

So whilst there are army up on the BTS tending to the wounded after this attack on the BTS, the POLICE are none the wiser and claim this was fireworks? Meanwhile, the French journalist is up on the BTS filming holes in the roof of the BTS.

Note to ASTV. Don't believe a word that the police utter.

[Meridian007]

NEWS FLASH:

1. There cannot be any confusion . We probably will never know who launched the grenades.

2. But , it is fair to say we do have proof that this whole confrontation was provoked by the government !!!

3. If not, why would the government under any circumstances let the yellow shirts get near the reds to antagonize the situation. IF SILOM ROAD WAS DECLARED OFF LIMITS TO THE REDS ,,, WHY WERE THE YELLOWS ALLOWED TO PROTEST ,, AND CONGREGATE THERE . Why the double standard ? No government can claim to be that stupid ,,, and certainly not this one ,,, it was planned its obvious.

This is a typical fascist " divide and conquer " strategy which is to provoke a crisis and then use force to resolve it in the name of the state.

Hence, the claims by all you posters here who think you know for sure the reds started the grenade throwing will always be left in doubt once again . Just like the still lingering questions of the deaths on April 10 because the government lied about only using rubber bullets etc.

Wow.

Let's step back from the emotion a bit and look at this rationally, shall we? I've numbered your points to better respond to them.

1. That is what the current discussion is about. We are all trying to provide information here so that everyone can make their own conclusions. With the editing that has been done, would you even trust video or pictures if they were available? Let us discuss it, so that we can all try to find a clearer picture.

2. Um, have you listened to any of the speeches from the red stage? I think the provocation began a while ago, and from the red stages. I remember walking by the stages at Phan Fa back in March, and if you heard the death threats and urges for the government to react violently so that the reds could "unleash their fiery anger" on Bangkok, you would have been shocked.

3. After the government and the military have allowed the reds to illegally congregate for so long, do you really think it would be fair of them to stop the citizens of Bangkok from being able to display their frustration? I agree that there was an ultra-violent part to the non-red group last night, and I think it is this sub-group, as well as the ultra-violent red sub-group that make this so volatile. Neither side can be painted with the brush that these sub-groups are tarred with.

The non-reds congregated in the only place they could, to confront the reds. Yes, the army let them into the Silom area more, but that is probably because the group supported them, so they were not seen as potential dangers.

I think the military and the police should have done more to keep both sides back from each other, but the reds made that difficult with their "bamboo fort".

Maybe you should relax a bit, this spouting of hate does little to support your legitimacy.

[kissdani]

If you watch the link below you can see :

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xd1loe_us...top-201004_news

Thanks. This clip will be BANNED from public TV especially NBT. I can bet on it.

Former Thai senators call on government to stop blocking and manipulating media

Statement from Former Thai Senators (2000-2006)*, “Demanding the government to stop blocking media channels and using the state-run media to present one-sided information on the crackdown of the demonstration on April 10, 2010”

The crackdown of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) demonstration by the government security forces under the Emergency Decree on April 10, 2010 has resulted in 24 deaths of demonstrators and soldiers, more than 800 injured and many went missing. Not only have we yet to hear a straightforward and credible explanation of this tragic event from the Government, we have also seen unreasonable blockade of voices from the UDD side. Hundreds of community radios, TV stations, websites and SMS, which the government branded as “Red-shirted media” including the satellite-based People Channel television station (PTV) and Thairednews have been shut down by the Government.

Worse, the Government has used state-owned televisions as well as private channels (such as TNN) to provide one-sided information to deny its responsibility for the tragic violence and pass the blame onto the demonstrators who simply exercise their constitutional rights to demand a fresh election by Parliament dissolution.

Such media control by the Government and concerned agencies (especially the Centre for the Resolution of Emergency Situations (CRES), the Royal Thai Army, the Public Relations Department, TV channel 11 (NBT), TV channel 3, 5, 7, 9 and Thai PBS), is a serious violation of people’s basic rights under the Constitution, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant of Civil and Political Rights.

In the name of members of the Senate 2000-2006 undersigned, we urge Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, the Democrat Party, the rest coalition parties as well as media professionals who appeared to have acceded and cooperated with the Government in providing biased information about the April 10, 2010 crackdown, to show responsibilities for the acts that led to the great loss of Thai people as follows;

1. To immediately cancel the State of Emergency and related legal instruments in the name of national security as the said declaration and the enforcement is an unlawful act under the Constitution and laws.

2. Stop all the obstruction of public information flows and news reports presented in print media, radio and TV stations, telecommunications, the Internet and all other kind of media, in order to return the constitutional rights to information and expression to the people.

3. We urge media institutions and media professionals to uphold highest professional ethics by providing fact and giving equal opportunities for all concerned parties to present their information and evidence. It should stop allowing one-sided information and evidence from the government.

Last but not least we, members of the Senate 2000-2006, express our political stance here that we consider the demonstrators demanding for the House Dissolution as an exercise of rights to demonstration in order to express their political views according to laws and democratic system under the constitutional monarchy as guaranteed in sections 3, 7, 26, 28-30,37, 39-41, 44 and 65 of the 1997 Constitution of the Kingdom of Thailand (Please note here that we do not recognize the present Constitution (2007) which is the legacy of coup d’etat). A deprivation and violation of these rights to freedom by unlawfully using the State of Emergency Decree, therefore, is a humiliation of human dignity. This violation against people’s rights to freedom is an abuse of the state power and hence justifies the people’s invocation of natural rights to uprise against the rulers who use injustice power to govern the country as President Abraham Lincoln states:

"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.” By Abraham Lincoln

* Former Senators 2000-2006

Panat Tasneeyanond (Tak)

Napinthon Srisanpang (Ratchaburi)

Wiboon Shamsheun (Kalasin)

Montri Sinthawichai (Samut-songkram)

Sawai Phramanee (Nakhon Ratchasima)

Boontan Dokthaisong (NakhonRatchasima)

Prakiat Nasimma (Roi Et)

Surachai Danaitangtrakul (Roi Et)

Boonya Leelead (Songkhla)

Sompong Sakawee (Songkhla)

Khampan Pongpan (Udon Thani)

Somkiat Soralam (Nakhon Sawan)

Gen. Manas Aramsri (Suphanburi)

Prateep Ungsongtham Hata (Bangkok)

Sb-Lt. Amnuay Thaiyanont (Prachuapkhirikhan)

Porn Penpas (Buriram)

Pol.Gen. Wirun Fuensaeng. (Chiang Rai)

Adul Wanchaitanawong (Mae Hong Son)

Thaworn Kiatchaiyakorn (Chiang Mai)

Kamnuan Chalopathump (Sing Buri)

Pha Aksornsua (Khon Kaen)

Amorn Nilprem (Ubon Ratchathani)

Manu Vanitchanont (Surat Thani)

Nanthana Songpracha (Chainat)

Anuchart Banchongsupamitr (Uttaradit)

Paiboon Upatising (Phuket)

Sutat Chansaengsri (Petchabun)

Niwet Pancharoenvorakul (Ayutthaya)

Srimuang Charoensiri (Mahasarakham)

source: http://www.prachatai.org/english/node/1753 or here on

Prachatai Facebook

[Meridian007]

onnected.

I wouldn't believe anything Suthep says either. I think my favourite is Weng though - I don't know how he keeps a straight face. And some of the Reds I know believe every word.

From Mark Mackinnon's tweets

http://twitter.com/markmackinnon

What I saw/heard were fireworks fired from Red side over police barricade. Not M79s, as some reporting

Yes. exactly. Bad reporting not helping tense situation RT @ RT @terryfrd: ASTV says police say it was likely firework not M79 as reported

So whilst there are army up on the BTS tending to the wounded after this attack on the BTS, the POLICE are none the wiser and claim this was fireworks? Meanwhile, the French journalist is up on the BTS filming holes in the roof of the BTS.

Note to ASTV. Don't believe a word that the police utter.

Exactly. I don't trust any of the Thai stations, there is too much tilt on both sides. The main problem with live updates is just as you've illustrated, if you are there on the street, it can be confusing. That is why I think that the fireworks were used to cover that "whomp" sound that M79s make. My main interest is that he is the only western journo that I've read that was actually able to say where the noises came from. There are also many Thais who have reported the same thing, along with western non-journos, but I don't think they are given the same level of respect in their reporting. (although there was some great photo-journalism by non-journos last night)

[Tod Daniels]

I was thinking the same thing. I also heard rumour of RPGs being used, and depending on the ammunition, that would also extend their range, but would be more visible, hence the rockets.

If you take a look at the video of the damage it seems that whatever it was that exploded fell down from above.

Not sure what the range of those grenade launchers are but they seem to have been quite accurate considering the distance between the alleged launch site and skytrain station is around 400-500 meters.

It was most certainly NOT an RPG round, as that's a sure suicidal weapon to fire off at night given the "trail back" effect of the round. You give your position away totally firing one in the day time, and especially so at night.

After perusing Google Earth, Google Maps (although not knowing about Scribble maps, thanx ), I think it's entirely within the range of an M79 to have been fired from within the 'redz-bamboo-fort'.

Also post blast patterning shows a very steep angle in which the rounds impacted; it is clear they were used at nearly their furthest effective range, (almost dropping straight out of the sky). When used in this fashion they are much less accurate, rather than indirect short range firing, or "point and shoot". However, they have a fairly accurate long range 'lob-sight' on the top of the barrel. One or maybe two 'range in rounds' and even a semi-incompetent person could land rounds on that sky train platform all frickin' night long.

I also disagree with a previous posters guess that they could have used a bounce and explode strategy. The standard M79 fragmentation rounds are of the detonate on impact variety and can’t be skipped like a stone at any trajectory other than almost parallel to the ground.

I am NOT saying the reds did it, only that in my observation, it’s entirely plausible the rounds originated from an area where there was a limited military presence, ZERO many colorz, and a plethora of redz.

Third hand, ronin warriors, men-in-black, I dunno. ...

[OzMick]

I know exactly where the BTS is in relation to Lumpini.

I am not saying what you said isn't feasible. It is just I would dearly love some independent corroboration. I don't believe a word that comes out of Suthep's mouth anymore. This doesn't mean I am red, it is just I think he is a complete buffoon. Of course by now it is lunchtime the next day, and as yet, not even an eyewitness account in the English language press.

Of course, we have a statement from a TV star about his supposed role as front and centre on the Nation, because that is real news.

I've already given the quote from The Globe and Mail's Mark Mackinnon, but here it is again (I'm sure that it will colour his article about what happened, but he is still busy reporting from there now, so he hasn't written anything released by the Globe yet):

What I saw/heard were fireworks fired from Red side over police barricade. Not M79s, as some reporting.

That was at shortly after 8pm, when the grenades were fired that ended up at the BTS. The fireworks were to disguise the distinctive noise of the M79, but he clearly states that it came from the red side. Can you honestly tell me that it is just a coincidence that the grenades were fired at the exact same time, (corroborated by the immediate damage afterwards)? Or that the military or non-red shirts were able to time firing with the fireworks? It is pretty clear that it is the reds, and it was an unfortunate decision on their part.

I just watched the videos. A great bit of journalism as opposed to the dial in journalism from the Thai networks.

A few questions to the experts out there. If these were grenades how big a hole would they be expected to make in sheet metal roofing.

Seems like a likely place to start I would think.

For me the holes don't look particularly big, seems like the devices blew holes in the roof and bits/schrapnel must have hit the people on the platform. One would imagine the explosions all would have had to be there at approximately the same time, i.e within 30 seconds to a minute of each other.

Size of the hole? Difficult. The grenade is 40mm, and would be in free fall after reaching it's zenith, but would it have sufficient KE to punch through sheet metal? It is supposed to explode on contact, but there would be a delay, though in milliseconds. As a guesstimate, I would say 6" to a foot, but it's only a guess.

Remember that the RPG which is much larger only caused an inch and a half hole in the fuel tank, but much thicker material of course.

The launcher is single shot, and breaks open like a shotgun. 2-3 rounds a min should be reasonably easy when accuracy isn't a big factor.

[Meridian007]

If you watch the link below you can see :

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xd1loe_us...top-201004_news

Thanks. This clip will be BANNED from public TV especially NBT. I can bet on it.

Former Thai senators call on government to stop blocking and manipulating media

Only if they stop doing the same! This is exactly why you can't trust ANY Thai news sources, one side edits things, the other blocks them. What a mess!

(BTW, if you want to see that video, it's on the page I linked to before: http://thailand.media140.org/bangkok/?p=1218 ) It's difficult to block things on the internet.

[Thai at Heart]

Exactly. I don't trust any of the Thai stations, there is too much tilt on both sides. The main problem with live updates is just as you've illustrated, if you are there on the street, it can be confusing. That is why I think that the fireworks were used to cover that "whomp" sound that M79s make. My main interest is that he is the only western journo that I've read that was actually able to say where the noises came from. There are also many Thais who have reported the same thing, along with western non-journos, but I don't think they are given the same level of respect in their reporting. (although there was some great photo-journalism by non-journos last night)

The Thai stations are beyond recovery I fear. Half are owned by the army for god sake, then throw in ASTV and the Nation, it is as bad like watching FOX on all the stations. That is if, you don't get bogged down by a soap opera whilst there is live shooting going on.

It is possible, that this was co-ordinated. I still reckon could have been thrown or shot from nearby buildings.

I am a little surprised at how small the holes are in the roof. Thought with a grenade it would be bigger.

[likewise]

I find it very odd that so many are against any intervening from the military??

So, it is normal that the reddies take a capital hostage and create chaos at their own content??

The military should intervene asap and with full force, blow them back to the rice paddies they came from.

Edited April 23, 2010 by likewise

[Motoon]

NEWS FLASH:

There cannot be any confusion . We probably will never know who launched the grenades.

But , it is fair to say we do have proof that this whole confrontation was provoked by the government !!!

If not, why would the government under any circumstances let the yellow shirts get near the reds to antagonize the situation. IF SILOM ROAD WAS DECLARED OFF LIMITS TO THE REDS ,,, WHY WERE THE YELLOWS ALLOWED TO PROTEST ,, AND CONGREGATE THERE . Why the double standard ? No government can claim to be that stupid ,,, and certainly not this one ,,, it was planned its obvious.

This is a typical fascist " divide and conquer " strategy which is to provoke a crisis and then use force to resolve it in the name of the state.

Hence, the claims by all you posters here who think you know for sure the reds started the grenade throwing will always be left in doubt once again . Just like the still lingering questions of the deaths on April 10 because the government lied about only using rubber bullets etc.

Biased and not even correct. I have not seen Yellow shirts but what was referred to as frustrated Silom street vendors and employees. Since they were working or living there until not so long ago, it is quite logical that they are on place. Everything else is speculation, something that pro-red members here constantly criticize about posts of other forum members. so keep to facts as well.

Same goes for your statement of an alleged involvement of the Government. Until anything is proven it is just unsubstantiated BS. Theoretically there are many possible scenarios so please stop acting as you're the one knowing the absolute truth, when in fact like so many of us, you know zip.

[TAWP]

The only time people have died is when the PM has used force. So maybe that's why?

Apart from being a lie on its face as one died in the attack last night as you could read before you posted the above garbage, others have died at the hands of red many times before. But you seem to have a very limited vision and memory when it comes to crimes from some groups.

[TAWP]

At around 9.40pm, repeated loud bangs were heard among red shirts prompting a hurray from Silom residents. It turned out later that the red shirts had lit firecrackers to celebrate the attacks on the Silom residents.

From The Nation.

Bold added for focus.

Edited April 23, 2010 by TAWP

[pimay11]

I find it very odd that so many are against any intervening from the military??

So, it is normal that the reddies take a capital hostage and create chaos at their own content??

The military should intervene asap and with full force, blow them back to the rice paddies they came from.

Likewise I understand your frustration. The real culprits here are the red leaders who have filled the heads of these people with hate, lies and nonsense. I suppose there are some bad guys in the red crowd but all in all these are just poor farmers trying to make a few Baht that have been pumped full of this mess. Their emotions are peaked. Sad to say they do anything the red leaders tell them to. The army or police need to take out the leaders. I am not saying go in with guns blazing but these are very bad guys and need to be stopped. Arrest them get them off the scene and keep them in jail and it will all be over. The followers will go home as they have no one to tell them what to do.

[animatic]

Well, there are apparently dozens and dozens of reporters down there. Presumably with dozens of cameras both still and video pointing in all sorts of directions.

Someone will have a video of something that will shed a lot of light on where and how a grenade came to land on the BTS. Presumably the BTS has cameras so where is the footage?

I am still unsure how anyone could fire from road level onto the platform accurately. They could fire onto the walkways of course. The story is that the grenades came from Lumpini and one came down through the "roof" of the BTS? Another newspaper is still claiming "unknown" areas for the launch and has a differing number for the numbers of casualties. Some say 5 grenades, some 3, some landing on the platforms, some on walkways. One says one grenade landed at the Dusit Thani, the other not. The newspapers don't even have a conclusive story, and I tell you I won't believe a word that comes out of Suthep's or the red's mouth about this type of thing.

The story is so confused, and apparently despite there being so many cameras around, as yet, very little CONCRETE evidence.

"I am still unsure how anyone could fire from road level onto the platform accurately."

Was that what was being aimed at? The anti-red protestors. And they missed and got the BTS instead.

There is plenty of eyewitness accounts of "firecrackers" coming from the red side. Maybe they were actually grenades in there that many thought were "firecrackers".

Given the number of people (reporters, non-protestors) on the Silom side with no reports of grenade launches (or firecrackers) from that side, the evidence available certainly does point to it coming from the red side.

Easy enough,

shoot at an angle over the railing at the underside of the BTS ceiling

It goes in through the slot, hits the ceiling and bounces down and explodes.

[likewise]

Indeed pimay11 that's what I've been thinking since the beginning : Police/army goes in arrest the fanatic leaders and then the herd will go home.

[hammered]

At around 9.40pm, repeated loud bangs were heard among red shirts prompting a hurray from Silom residents. It turned out later that the red shirts had lit firecrackers to celebrate the attacks on the Silom residents.

From The Nation.

Bold added for focus.

Various tweets reported it as Jatuporn went on stage said nothing to do with us and then turned the music up for people to dance. This followed cheering fron the barricades as the rockets hit.

Considering Methee has now said the UDD leadership ordered him and others to fire on the army on April 10 everything is starting to look quite bad PR wise for the reds

[fxe1200]

"Former Thai senators call on government to stop blocking and manipulating media"

Can somebody tell me, who from the list of senators was accused of vote buying, or were placed on an inactive post, or were accused of corruption, or how many skeletons they have in their cupboards ?

Or are they all honorable retired politicians???

[dutchweller]

The only time people have died is when the PM has used force. So maybe that's why?

So the people who died last night are Dead because of Force used by the Government?

Dont be a Moron these people died from a deliberate Terrorist attack on Innocent Civilians be it from Red, yellow, green, Backs...

Dont just say the government is responsible for everything It takes at least 2 sides to continue to fight..

and if one side is Refusing to accept a reasonable compromise then it just make the situation more difficult.

Edited April 23, 2010 by dutchweller

[Thai at Heart]

How is it that the holes for the grenades mark so accurately the approximate front, middle and end of the stopping point of the trains?

http://thailand.media140.org/bangkok/?p=1218

Is this co-incidence? Experts. Presumably this would be impossible to do over a very long distance?

[boggle]

MCOT: Forensic expert Khunying Porntip inspects multi-grenade hit area in Silom, declines comment.

A good practical use for the ever inspiring GT200.

[Thai at Heart]

MCOT: Forensic expert Khunying Porntip inspects multi-grenade hit area in Silom, declines comment.

A good practical use for the ever inspiring GT200.

Oh dear. I wondered how long it would be until she got involved.

[Jimi007]

While I'm not in favor of elections being forced by a group of demonstrators, it may be the easiest way out of the current mess. All the reds would have to go home to collect their money to vote for the TRT, err the PPP of that's right, now they're the PTP.

[TAWP]

How is it that the holes for the grenades mark so accurately the approximate front, middle and end of the stopping point of the trains?

http://thailand.media140.org/bangkok/?p=1218

Is this co-incidence? Experts. Presumably this would be impossible to do over a very long distance?

You assumption of accuracy is incorrect. I saw all the clips and there was no accuracy to be found in the hits, it is clearly random hits due to launches over distance. Your assumed accuracy is a normal reaction in humans, trying to find patterns were there is none.

[humfurry]

Exactly. I don't trust any of the Thai stations, there is too much tilt on both sides. The main problem with live updates is just as you've illustrated, if you are there on the street, it can be confusing. That is why I think that the fireworks were used to cover that "whomp" sound that M79s make. My main interest is that he is the only western journo that I've read that was actually able to say where the noises came from. There are also many Thais who have reported the same thing, along with western non-journos, but I don't think they are given the same level of respect in their reporting. (although there was some great photo-journalism by non-journos last night)

The Thai stations are beyond recovery I fear. Half are owned by the army for god sake, then throw in ASTV and the Nation, it is as bad like watching FOX on all the stations. That is if, you don't get bogged down by a soap opera whilst there is live shooting going on.

It is possible, that this was co-ordinated. I still reckon could have been thrown or shot from nearby buildings.

I am a little surprised at how small the holes are in the roof. Thought with a grenade it would be bigger.

Try to keep in mind that the grenades are designed to tear through human flesh and not sheet metal or cement, so a large explosion isn't really necessary.

[IMA_FARANG]

Regarding the M-79 grenades allegedly fied into the BTS station.

I've looked at the video of the hole made in the roof. Although it is hard to tell, it appears to me to be exactly what I would expect to see from one M-79 round that hit the roof. It would have exploded on contact. Much of the injuries would have been cused by the tin roofing being sprayed mostly downward.

An M-79 is only a relatively small explosive charge. It wouldn't have penetrated the roof, because it is designed to explode on contact. It is really designed to take out personnel by the shrapnel effect, not destroying buildings by its explosion. Landing on the roof like that, much of the explosion would be upwards, anyhow. The injuries that I saw in the video seem to be consistant with pieces of the tin roof ripped off and thrown downward by the blast.

I saw similiar effects from an M-79 fired into a tin roof on our barracks at one of the sites I was at in Vietnam, so the video I saw looks legit to me.

[Thai at Heart]

How is it that the holes for the grenades mark so accurately the approximate front, middle and end of the stopping point of the trains?

http://thailand.media140.org/bangkok/?p=1218

Is this co-incidence? Experts. Presumably this would be impossible to do over a very long distance?

You assumption of accuracy is incorrect. I saw all the clips and there was no accuracy to be found in the hits, it is clearly random hits due to launches over distance. Your assumed accuracy is a normal reaction in humans, trying to find patterns were there is none.

Maybe, but on the basis that the train only covers a partial length of the platform (since we all moan about the fact that they should add more carriages for rush hour) I don't see that the odds that one would fall a couple of meters from each end and one in the approximate middle to be random. The trains stop at the same point since the door markings are on the floor.

Especially if the government claims these were fired over about 400 yards, it would seem a hel_l of a lot more plausible that someone dropped them on the roof of the platform and they rolled down the roof towards the gutter. What are the odds that fired over 400 yards with a hand held apparatus all 3 are in line within a meter and 2 land so accurately to either end of the train.

20 m shorter and 20 m longer and no one would have been injured because no stands at the end of the platforms. Hitting the roof is no guarantee of hurting anyone.

[TAWP]

I am a little surprised at how small the holes are in the roof. Thought with a grenade it would be bigger.

Try to keep in mind that the grenades are designed to tear through human flesh and not sheet metal or cement, so a large explosion isn't really necessary.

The shrapnel is, yes. The 40mm grenade launched with the M79, M203 etc is NOT the large fire-cloud explosion weapon as in the movies.

Imagine an oversized firecracker, a short sound/crack, and a lot of spray of small pieces of metal in a very short timeframe. That would be a more accurate image you should have in your head when thinking of the effect of the grenades. Same so with the M67 (thrown grenade) that they still use here. (And in an insurgent attack against the police station in the south some day ago.)