Bangkok: Assailants Fired M-79 Grenades At Sala Daeng Skytrain Station

[KhaoNiaw]

Veera's not afraid of jail (unlike his fearless leader Thaksin) -- Veera spent time in jail for supporting a failed coup in the past.

It doesn't mean he wants to back again. Hasn't he got kids in school?

He's old friends with some of the Democrats and I've got a feeling the previous 2-day negotiations would have got a lot further if he hadn't had the other two there ready to bail out in the twinkling of an SMS message.

Edited April 23, 2010 by KhaoNiaw

[KhaoNiaw]

Real problem for the Red Shirts is that Chaturon is now involved. The dispute and conflict is being shifted to the realm of political compromise (where it should have been all along) and as that tide goes out it will leave exposed the violent radicals.

There might be some very nasty spasmotic shocks shocks to come, but it seems (seems) to be moving in the right direction.

Who's running the show in September and gets to appoint the next army chief is going to be a vital concern to all involved.

[Old Man River]

How is it that the holes for the grenades mark so accurately the approximate front, middle and end of the stopping point of the trains?

http://thailand.media140.org/bangkok/?p=1218

Is this co-incidence? Experts. Presumably this would be impossible to do over a very long distance?

You assumption of accuracy is incorrect. I saw all the clips and there was no accuracy to be found in the hits, it is clearly random hits due to launches over distance. Your assumed accuracy is a normal reaction in humans, trying to find patterns were there is none.

TAWP, I am not an expert in grenade launchers (or any other type of weapon), however, there is footage now on YouTube of two of the grenades and on the second you can clearly see the line of flight of the grenade. It hit where it was aimed. Moreover, the grenade came from the behind the Reds' front line. The Red thugs in front throwing rocks and shooting slingshots were oblivious to the grenades, but the shooter was behind the Reds' side.

[yoshiwara]

Something is happening down the red stage. They are talking like it is over. Maybe some splits in the reds between stopping and going on. Confusing now Guess we will find out soon

That's the way I'm reading it.

Number of things:

Veera has gone feral and decided, against the sage advice of Jatuporn, Nattawut et.al., that it's necessary to negotiate.

The wonderful and sublime actor seems to have been caught with illicit weaponry and far, far too much information on the constitution, activities and connections of certain black robed freedom fighters.

The 'calling in' for questioning of a multitude of Red Shirt fund raisers is cutting off significant mullah.

The bad press from the explosions on Silom are depressing and deflating otherwise moderate support.

Overall, looks like negotiate now or find that the position from which negotiation can be had will have deteriorated further.

The real difference between negotiating now and having negotiated a few weeks ago? 25-30 dead people and many more maimed and traumatized.

Intransigent rhetoric is needed to fire the mob, talk of political negotiation and compromise will bore them. Bad luck for Jatuporn but even worse luck for the other 27 who don't have immunity.

The numbers are going down.

Slightly less than one million now.

[TAWP]

How is it that the holes for the grenades mark so accurately the approximate front, middle and end of the stopping point of the trains?

http://thailand.media140.org/bangkok/?p=1218

Is this co-incidence? Experts. Presumably this would be impossible to do over a very long distance?

You assumption of accuracy is incorrect. I saw all the clips and there was no accuracy to be found in the hits, it is clearly random hits due to launches over distance. Your assumed accuracy is a normal reaction in humans, trying to find patterns were there is none.

TAWP, I am not an expert in grenade launchers (or any other type of weapon), however, there is footage now on YouTube of two of the grenades and on the second you can clearly see the line of flight of the grenade. It hit where it was aimed. Moreover, the grenade came from the behind the Reds' front line. The Red thugs in front throwing rocks and shooting slingshots were oblivious to the grenades, but the shooter was behind the Reds' side.

I am not sure what you mean here. The gun is not a very accurate weapon, but a trained person can hit what it aims at if it is a big one [when the distance is as it is]. But super pinpoint, no.

Thai at Heart thought the hits was too accurate to be launched, as if they where pre-planted bombs etc. I am saying that the hits was not lined up in any way as if they where too accurate to be launched. I saw just normal deviation.

[Thai at Heart]

Real problem for the Red Shirts is that Chaturon is now involved. The dispute and conflict is being shifted to the realm of political compromise (where it should have been all along) and as that tide goes out it will leave exposed the violent radicals.

There might be some very nasty spasmotic shocks shocks to come, but it seems (seems) to be moving in the right direction.

Who's running the show in September and gets to appoint the next army chief is going to be a vital concern to all involved.

Oh the irony.

The major issue in Thai democracy is actually who runs the army.

What a truly Thai farce. First things first, get everyone of the street. I tell you what, lets have a vote on who becomes army chief.

Lets see if Anupong really has the stomach for democracy.

[Old Man River]

How is it that the holes for the grenades mark so accurately the approximate front, middle and end of the stopping point of the trains?

http://thailand.media140.org/bangkok/?p=1218

Is this co-incidence? Experts. Presumably this would be impossible to do over a very long distance?

You assumption of accuracy is incorrect. I saw all the clips and there was no accuracy to be found in the hits, it is clearly random hits due to launches over distance. Your assumed accuracy is a normal reaction in humans, trying to find patterns were there is none.

TAWP, I am not an expert in grenade launchers (or any other type of weapon), however, there is footage now on YouTube of two of the grenades and on the second you can clearly see the line of flight of the grenade. It hit where it was aimed. Moreover, the grenade came from the behind the Reds' front line. The Red thugs in front throwing rocks and shooting slingshots were oblivious to the grenades, but the shooter was behind the Reds' side.

Further to the above, below is the YouTube link. This was a Red attack on defenseless people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHfdsDTtP3c...player_embedded

[hammered]

Definitley seems with youtube and Methee that the evidence of red involvement in violence is increasing. I guess that mustr have played its part in todays climbdown by their leadership. This stuff wont play well with neutrals. I would think the government will make a coujnter offer and I would guess the sideconditions will be difficult. There are people going to be potantially facing death sentences

It will also be interesting to see the reaction of the multicoloureds and PAD. Without their agreement to a deal there is little chance of it working

[kentucky]

"Former Thai senators call on government to stop blocking and manipulating media"

Can somebody tell me, who from the list of senators was accused of vote buying, or were placed on an inactive post, or were accused of corruption, or how many skeletons they have in their cupboards ?

Or are they all honorable retired politicians???

Just working up from the bottom of the list, Srimuang Charoensiri's name jumped out. He's a banned from politics for 5 years for electoral fraud as an executive member of the dissolved People Power Party. When he was made Education Minister in Samak's government, he had this to say on his first day

The Education Minister admitted that he has close relationship to deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, but remarked that simply knowing a person was a normal circumstance.

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/thaila..._100100278.html

The rest of the list is probably filled with similarly disreputable individuals.

btw, The Former Thai Senators (2000-2006) were infamously known for doing whatever bidding Thaksin seemed fit and completed whatever rubber-stamping of his policies that he demanded. This was all despite their supposed non-partisan status. They were so bad, in fact, it was why the composition of the Senate was changed after that.

Edited April 23, 2010 by kentucky

[lannarebirth]

Definitley seems with youtube and Methee that the evidence of red involvement in violence is increasing. I guess that mustr have played its part in todays climbdown by their leadership. This stuff wont play well with neutrals. I would think the government will make a coujnter offer and I would guess the sideconditions will be difficult. There are people going to be potantially facing death sentences

It will also be interesting to see the reaction of the multicoloureds and PAD. Without their agreement to a deal there is little chance of it working

Agree. Also believe the folks that think Anupong minced words today are mistaken. For those with reason to listen, he said a lot.

Edited April 23, 2010 by lannarebirth

[TheOldWolf]

Definitley seems with youtube and Methee that the evidence of red involvement in violence is increasing. I guess that mustr have played its part in todays climbdown by their leadership. This stuff wont play well with neutrals. I would think the government will make a coujnter offer and I would guess the sideconditions will be difficult. There are people going to be potantially facing death sentences

It will also be interesting to see the reaction of the multicoloureds and PAD. Without their agreement to a deal there is little chance of it working

I think PM said at the first negotiations that a solution must be for the good of everyone in thailand, not only for the red shirts. A true negotiation must involve more then only the reds

[Thai at Heart]

Further to the above, below is the YouTube link. This was a Red attack on defenseless people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHfdsDTtP3c...player_embedded

If you look, there is what appears to be a foreign cameraman (0.56) in the red lines, looking back towards the camera with a still camera.

I would imagine he would have had a clear view of the reds if there was a grenade launcher. We talked about this clip before. I don't see where it shows a grenade. It shows a smoke trajectory which someone mentioned probably wouldn't be from a grenade.

When I look at it, it looks like the projectile goes bang over the road, but perspective is hard to tell.

[kentucky]

"Former Thai senators call on government to stop blocking and manipulating media"

Can somebody tell me, who from the list of senators was accused of vote buying, or were placed on an inactive post, or were accused of corruption, or how many skeletons they have in their cupboards ?

Or are they all honorable retired politicians???

No one, they are a clean and did well.

That's a good joke.

*edited to add Sutat Chansaengsri as a yellow-carded recipient for vote-buying. So far 2 for 2 on names checked being disreputable.

Edited April 23, 2010 by kentucky

[fxe1200]

The only time people have died is when the PM has used force. So maybe that's why?

What a crock... mob rule, paralyse a city, total lawlessness, and police who are 90% red supporters of their old criminal crony and many poor bastards in the army also from the North East who will not fire on their friends. Go figure - the violence was started by mercs to incite the problem which they did. The violence started by the powers that run the Reds. But comments from a poseur provocateur who supports cheguevara and hides behind his profile, no-one would expect anything less - another criminal in history.

Completely right, there is nothing to add.

....and happy to live in Hat Yai, where life is just as normal as ever...., orchids are blossoming, the bubbles of my cold drink countless..., Malay folks dropping in for their leisure activities as every weekend...

[Neurath]

Definitley seems with youtube and Methee that the evidence of red involvement in violence is increasing. I guess that mustr have played its part in todays climbdown by their leadership. This stuff wont play well with neutrals. I would think the government will make a coujnter offer and I would guess the sideconditions will be difficult. There are people going to be potantially facing death sentences

It will also be interesting to see the reaction of the multicoloureds and PAD. Without their agreement to a deal there is little chance of it working

At 1.01 on the video there is a projectile moving from the right of the frame to the left. It is targeting the soldiers who have been up in the Sky Walk since Monday. No ballistics knowledge so can't tell whether it's a rocket or a grenade. If grenade then this evidence is damning indeed.

[Thai at Heart]

Definitley seems with youtube and Methee that the evidence of red involvement in violence is increasing. I guess that mustr have played its part in todays climbdown by their leadership. This stuff wont play well with neutrals. I would think the government will make a coujnter offer and I would guess the sideconditions will be difficult. There are people going to be potantially facing death sentences

It will also be interesting to see the reaction of the multicoloureds and PAD. Without their agreement to a deal there is little chance of it working

At 1.01 on the video there is a projectile moving from the right of the frame to the left. It is targeting the soldiers who have been up in the Sky Walk since Monday. No ballistics knowledge so can't tell whether it's a rocket or a grenade. If grenade then this evidence is damning indeed.

Indeed there is, but from what I can see it doesn't get anywhere near the walkway. It goes bang over the empty road.

And at 1.09 the guy at the bottom right of the picture appears to aim and shoot his catapault up towards the roadway, if the projectile came from up there. All very confusing about who is firing what at who.

[Old Man River]

Further to the above, below is the YouTube link. This was a Red attack on defenseless people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHfdsDTtP3c...player_embedded

If you look, there is what appears to be a foreign cameraman (0.56) in the red lines, looking back towards the camera with a still camera.

I would imagine he would have had a clear view of the reds if there was a grenade launcher. We talked about this clip before. I don't see where it shows a grenade. It shows a smoke trajectory which someone mentioned probably wouldn't be from a grenade.

When I look at it, it looks like the projectile goes bang over the road, but perspective is hard to tell.

Yes, perspective is hard to tell. I don't see the first shot hit anything, but clearly see the second one fly straight for the sky train and hit it where it was aimed. In any event, it was from the Reds' line, not the PAD's line or the multicolored shirt's line etc. It clearly came from the Reds and that is the most important part about this footage.

Also, it would have been the same sick SOB that fired and hit the Au Bon Pain that was full of women and children. So much for these Red Shirt freedom fighters.

[Old Man River]

Definitley seems with youtube and Methee that the evidence of red involvement in violence is increasing. I guess that mustr have played its part in todays climbdown by their leadership. This stuff wont play well with neutrals. I would think the government will make a coujnter offer and I would guess the sideconditions will be difficult. There are people going to be potantially facing death sentences

It will also be interesting to see the reaction of the multicoloureds and PAD. Without their agreement to a deal there is little chance of it working

At 1.01 on the video there is a projectile moving from the right of the frame to the left. It is targeting the soldiers who have been up in the Sky Walk since Monday. No ballistics knowledge so can't tell whether it's a rocket or a grenade. If grenade then this evidence is damning indeed.

Indeed there is, but from what I can see it doesn't get anywhere near the walkway. It goes bang over the empty road.

And at 1.09 the guy at the bottom right of the picture appears to aim and shoot his catapault up towards the roadway, if the projectile came from up there. All very confusing about who is firing what at who.

The second one came from far down the line from the guys in the picture. It wasn't any of the thugs we could see.

Again, the most important thing is that it was explosive devices shot (however shot) by the Reds at the sky train. No weapons were being discharged in the direction of the Reds. It was unprovoked and criminal. It hasn't gone unnoticed.

[4223rhodes]

Definitley seems with youtube and Methee that the evidence of red involvement in violence is increasing. I guess that mustr have played its part in todays climbdown by their leadership. This stuff wont play well with neutrals. I would think the government will make a coujnter offer and I would guess the sideconditions will be difficult. There are people going to be potantially facing death sentences

It will also be interesting to see the reaction of the multicoloureds and PAD. Without their agreement to a deal there is little chance of it working

I think PM said at the first negotiations that a solution must be for the good of everyone in thailand, not only for the red shirts. A true negotiation must involve more then only the reds

That is the problem with Abhisit, he thinks only of himself. Of course, his leaving Thailand in shame and living in England may not be good for him. But it would be great for Thailand!

[kentucky]

Isn´t most of the red leaders on bail already from Black Songkran?

AFAIK, they're still on bail from leading the July 2007 riot in front of Prem's house.

[TheOldWolf]

Definitley seems with youtube and Methee that the evidence of red involvement in violence is increasing. I guess that mustr have played its part in todays climbdown by their leadership. This stuff wont play well with neutrals. I would think the government will make a coujnter offer and I would guess the sideconditions will be difficult. There are people going to be potantially facing death sentences

It will also be interesting to see the reaction of the multicoloureds and PAD. Without their agreement to a deal there is little chance of it working

I think PM said at the first negotiations that a solution must be for the good of everyone in thailand, not only for the red shirts. A true negotiation must involve more then only the reds

That is the problem with Abhisit, he thinks only of himself. Of course, his leaving Thailand in shame and living in England may not be good for him. But it would be great for Thailand!

I read what you say, but I don´t understand

[melbpete]

That is the problem with Abhisit, he thinks only of himself. Of course, his leaving Thailand in shame and living in England may not be good for him. But it would be great for Thailand!

How is any of this based around Abhisit thinking about himself?

For proper elections to take place, doesn't the constitution need to be fixed? Everyone is saying it needs fixing.

[tingtongfarang]

tulsathit News&gossips ab red leaders. News: They r apparently ready to negotiate again and accept probably an election timeframe of 60 days from now.

--------------

Question is....

will 'The Nation' go into PR overdrive for 2 months! How will they fill the 'news clippings section'

will the streets be once again filled with pickup trucks blaring country musack with great big posters!!

will they work out which parties are allowed to stand before election day!

will the army promise not to take sides unless directly theatened with obsolescence?

will the judges judge?

will the cops get pay rises so they dont have to fleece everyone!?

I dont for a second think the cops would stop fleecing everyone because of a pay rise, No amount of money can turn bad cops into good cops.

[4223rhodes]

Clearly, if Abhisit fled the country and evaded prosecution for corruption and the violence he has caused, it would be good for most average Thais. But Abhisit is not beholden in any way to the average Thai.

[TheOldWolf]

Clearly, if Abhisit fled the country and evaded prosecution for corruption and the violence he has caused, it would be good for most average Thais. But Abhisit is not beholden in any way to the average Thai.

.......says the supporter of dear Leader!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[elcent]

Red shirts are in a hole; I mean they can't go anywhere; everyone is fed up with them, Taksin's money is dwindling, their numbers are dwindling; very few people from the country want to come, even if the money offered is good; they are out numbered by police and army. Army don't have to do anything but contain them and wait (this reduces casualties). They have lost the moral high ground. Thus what can the reds do but negotiate and dilute their terms?

We are not supposed to talk about the royal family but it was reported in Thai Rath that an aid to king was very sceptical about Chavalits request to talk to the King. Basically the aid said why should the King be lenient to Taksin when he had been convicted by the court of the land, and was in effect a convicted criminal who had skipped the country to avoid his jail sentence. A fugitive from justice was the term. I guess you need to admit that you have wronged before you can be pardoned? Taksin never admits he is wrong.

Thaksin's black magic woman has put him into a ill bed. This is what happens when you employ magic.

REPENT! K Thaksin, you're not Gawd, your shit stinks even more than anybody else's.

Where are the records from his secret call ins'?

[rametindallas]

Two of the four were foreigners while the rest were Thais.

Just a question, what are foreigners doing there if they know it's dangerous???

Song nam naa!!!!

What do you mean som nam na you dingbat?

They, like I, may work in the area. Who knows? Whatever their reason their plight deserves some sympathy.

They, like all the other non-protagonists (innocent bystanders or passers-by) have the right to go about their life and not expect to get hit by a bomb on a railway station.

Gosh..I was just gonna let this one go (it stinks of trollpoop REAL bad), but it was buggin me so much.. so;

I'm no expert in Thai language, but as I've learned about Thai culture (and therefore, common use of Thai language), I can tell you that in addition to Barky's statement, I would like to conservatively suggest that the average Thai would NEVER think of using the "Som Nam Naa (สมน้ำหน้า)" expression (which means a gentle "deservedly"; regarding someone receiving minor setbacks involving poor judgement or some level of moderate greediness that causes a small to moderate loss of property, face, etc) about someone who's befallen serious or permanent bodily harm, especially if it's certainly possible that in fact, they became injured while NOT knowing that they were falling into harms way.

"Som Nam Naa" is hardly ever used in a genuinely mean-spirited way. And if it were, it would be whispered cautiously, confidentially into a "closest friend's" ear; never meant for the intended recipient's own ear. (I'm afraid a public forum would NOT fall into that category)

Losing a game of chess, because you were ogling the incredibly sexy Thai girl at the next table instead of the pieces on the board, is a fair application of someone lightheartedly "Som Nam Naa"-ing you.

Making a cash bet with a rival about something you should know about, then acting smug about your likeliness to win it, but then massively losing the bet, and face, and having to pay up bigtime might garner an appropriate "Som Nam Naa!" for your smugness.

Stealing your best friend's girlfriend, only to have her stolen from you 2 months later by someone better looking but of lesser stature than you, would be a sterner "Som Nam Naa" on you.

Someone blowing a tire on their pickup truck while out on the highway because they were so greedy as to far, far, FAR overload it, is a good example of the right time to use "Som Nam Naa" about the greedy driver.... but ONLY with a big smile, and probably only if you were about to help him change his tire.

However, if that same truck were to have swerved out of control, and then toppled over on top of another pickup coming the other way with three people in the bed, at highway speed, spilling both vehicles over and killing the people; flinging "Som Nam Naa" at the mangled bodies of the victims, or the (now indebted to take care of the next of kin for life) truck driver, would NOT be appropriate.

Any Thai that uttered that expression in that situation would be considered "ใจดำ (black-hearted)", and "คนเลว (evil person)".

To the topic; Innocent people have been murdered while waiting for a train, in the process of going through their daily lives. Whether they knew they were in harms way, or not, (unless they were knowingly/intentionally, by their actions of standing still on an elevated platform, endangering the lives of the persons that then might have then defensively launched the grenades at them {which of course, they weren't}), there is no morally or socially decent precedent (in Thai, or other cultures) for using an expression that means they deserved to be hurt and killed.

Perhaps a little sympathy, and a deeper study of the Thai expressions that you're borrowing and callously using would be in order? I don't know your personal story, but I will just say that just because you might have overheard a half-drunk, half-naked bargirl scream "Som Nam Naa" at you, one of your mates, or one of her mates doesn't mean you should use the same expression ad infinitum, without understanding it, first.

Thank you.

Thank you for explaining the expression so well.

[jcbangkok]

Thaksin down to his last US$500 million?

Interesting article that may explain a lot.

[elcent]

this honest prayer goes to the victims and their relatives.

[elcent]

Thaksin down to his last US$500 million?

Interesting article that may explain a lot.

this why he plays SIM City in Saudi