Thai Protesters Brace For Crackdown As Compromise Rejected

[madi]

Can any of the red apologists please explain to us how the logic of this red argument works

1. Abhisit is a yellow eliter, backed by the military

2. The military keep delibeartely messing up all their operations cos the military are reds.

Confused.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It works like this.

While the higher ups in the Thai military are likely very loyal to the Thai government and laws, the lower down military are overwhelmingly either neutral or reds.

Most Generals back Abhisit.

BUT--most of the Thai Military service men back REDS or do not care.

[jefro]

So they are dropping the red shirts. We all know why, yes? So when the reds without red attack the Thai soldiers and the general public with lethal weapons, and they are filmed doing so, they can more conveniently deny responsibility.

Nattawut said the Reds would strip off the symbols of their allegiance and reveal thier secret weapons.

NO FAIR REDS !!!

[jcbangkok]

The government has to take action to uphold the law and not feel guilty about hurting Thai citizens who refuse to obey the law or attack those commissioned to uphold the law and protect citizens and country.

As long as the government fails to enforce the law, we will continue to see airport take overs, actions such as at the Asean Summit, attacks on parliament, attempts to kill the PM in broad daylight while he is in his car and the last 6-weeks of terror in BKK .. to name a few.

At some point the government is going to have to accept that a line needs to be drawn that all citizens know to not step over unless they accept the risk of serious consequences.

The Red Shirts are simply continuing to follow a line of action that they have seen work in the past. Until these actions are shown to not work and everyone turns a deaf ear on such terror campaigns and lawlessness, regardless if the cause is just or not, there will be no change in Thailand.

If a government is so abusive it needs to be overthrown then so be it but short of that ... you wait for elections as is done in any civil nation.

[ETatBKK]

Freedom Fighters????????

The freedom for more hand-outs? The freedom to have everyone bow to their wishes without regard to the consequences of the country?

yeah, 'freedom fighters' for whom ?

they hold millions of Bangkok residents as hostage, they 'bomb' the country's economy with heavy toll, they ( or someone else ) cost 25+1 victims !

what does this 'freedom' mean ? what does this 'freedom' cost ?

[jcbangkok]

Can any of the red apologists please explain to us how the logic of this red argument works

1. Abhisit is a yellow eliter, backed by the military

2. The military keep delibeartely messing up all their operations cos the military are reds.

Confused.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It works like this.

While the higher ups in the Thai military are likely very loyal to the Thai government and laws, the lower down military are overwhelmingly either neutral or reds.

Most Generals back Abhisit.

BUT--most of the Thai Military service men back REDS or do not care.

Nonsense. If the troops do not follow the orders of their commanders then the Generals have no power at all. The military is all about doing things you don't want to do or that any rational person would refuse to do.

[dobadoy]

Can any of the red apologists please explain to us how the logic of this red argument works

1. Abhisit is a yellow eliter, backed by the military

2. The military keep delibeartely messing up all their operations cos the military are reds.

Confused.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It works like this.

While the higher ups in the Thai military are likely very loyal to the Thai government and laws, the lower down military are overwhelmingly either neutral or reds.

Most Generals back Abhisit.

BUT--most of the Thai Military service men back REDS or do not care.

I don't believe it does work like that Madi, as it is well-known there are 'watermelons' in feeding jatuporn et al with vital info from government meetings, and Anupong - the HEAD of the army - keeps saying he wont' crackdown and the solution is to dissolve parliamsent. So how exactly is the gov't a military backed dictatroship? If what you say is true, the army would have come out guns blazing a long time ago and it would never have got to this, witness North Korea. THAT'S what happens when you have a military backed dicatatorship.

[annabel]

And do WHAT...??? Attach a bomb to myself and then go and blow up some people in the hope of dying a hero and joining some 20 odd or so virgins..? Is this what you are suggesting...???

So they are dropping the red shirts. We all know why, yes? So when the reds without red attack the Thai soldiers and the general public with lethal weapons, and they are filmed doing so, they can more conveniently deny responsibility.

Precisely. This is a very disturbing development.

Guerrilla warfare? Threatening to loot CentralWorld?

"When the first blood is spilled here, the entire country will be the scene of bloodshed"

"We are ready to handle the government measures. No matter what shirt we wear, our hearts are red"

These are terrorist threats being made by the red shirt leaders. Some people might object to the word terrorist, but I don't know what else to call it. Insurrection perhaps? Any other suggestions?

Amazing how you determine/define what a freedom fighter is. What I suggest is that you do the same for your country...alas, highly doubtful.

[xilef]

So they are dropping the red shirts. We all know why, yes? So when the reds without red attack the Thai soldiers and the general public with lethal weapons, and they are filmed doing so, they can more conveniently deny responsibility.

How easy is it to put on a red T-shirt? There could be trickery from either side. Now, add a yellow T-shirt to the equation... It's a volatile situation, which is why caution has been exercised.

[kentucky]

and STILL as the hours go on and danger escalates, the reds keep their tiny kids directly in harms way

Apparently content to sacrifice their lives for the benefit of PR. Savagely reckless.

An infant plays inside the Red-Shirt's compound in Bangkok.

AFP - 56 minutes ago

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/ph...b643db58439b25/

[Jockey]

Can any of the red apologists please explain to us how the logic of this red argument works

1. Abhisit is a yellow eliter, backed by the military

2. The military keep delibeartely messing up all their operations cos the military are reds.

Confused.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It works like this.

While the higher ups in the Thai military are likely very loyal to the Thai government and laws, the lower down military are overwhelmingly either neutral or reds.

Most Generals back Abhisit.

BUT--most of the Thai Military service men back REDS or do not care.

Nonsense. If the troops do not follow the orders of their commanders then the Generals have no power at all. The military is all about doing things you don't want to do or that any rational person would refuse to do.

If the commanders order the troops to fire on the people and if the soldiers refuse, we have revolution.

[Insight]

Can any of the red apologists please explain to us how the logic of this red argument works

1. Abhisit is a yellow eliter, backed by the military

2. The military keep delibeartely messing up all their operations cos the military are reds.

Confused.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It works like this.

While the higher ups in the Thai military are likely very loyal to the Thai government and laws, the lower down military are overwhelmingly either neutral or reds.

Most Generals back Abhisit.

BUT--most of the Thai Military service men back REDS or do not care.

I don't believe it does work like that Madi, as it is well-known there are 'watermelons' in feeding jatuporn et al with vital info from government meetings, and Anupong - the HEAD of the army - keeps saying he wont' crackdown and the solution is to dissolve parliamsent. So how exactly is the gov't a military backed dictatroship? If what you say is true, the army would have come out guns blazing a long time ago and it would never have got to this, witness North Korea. THAT'S what happens when you have a military backed dicatatorship.

How much evidence have we seen of this "Watermelon army" ?

Understandable a few of the lower ranks sympathise with the reds owing to family and friend obligations, and the odd higher rank owing to entrepreneurial reasons, but in the past 8 weeks there's been no obvious signs of breaking ranks. The only slight indication has been the lack of action, but that could easily be attributed to the risk of loss of life.

The militant side of the reds had all day to observe the reds on April 10th and all suggestions about military activity from the reds on stage AFAIR seem to be based on knowledge already available to the public.

[way2muchcoffee]

1) As long as this demonstration continues and the focus remains on Rajprasong, there is less liklihood that 50 similar demonstrations don't pop up elsewhere. 2) I believe the government probably has intelligence gatherers in tis organization, probably has communications lines open, and probably is negotiating a more realistic schedule for dissolution, despite press reports3) And lastly, I don't think they could break it up if they wanted to and even if they could there would be a lot of casualties, collateral damage, unintended consequences and they'd probaly have to turn the govt. over to the military soon after (or just before). Waiting doesn't seem so bad in light of all that.

I agree. Now that the reds are all fired up and ready to fight the best move is for the government to step back. Let the protesters bake in the sun for a few more days as they calm down. Keep trying the back channels. Nobody wants to see a civil war. Nobody wants to see more terrorism. The red leaders are putting themselves into a very dark hole with their words this evening. Best not provoke them too much for the time being.

Edited April 24, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[animatic]

Can any of the red apologists please explain to us how the logic of this red argument works

1. Abhisit is a yellow eliter, backed by the military

2. The military keep delibeartely messing up all their operations cos the military are reds.

Confused.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It works like this.

While the higher ups in the Thai military are likely very loyal to the Thai government and laws, the lower down military are overwhelmingly either neutral or reds.

Most Generals back Abhisit.

BUT--most of the Thai Military service men back REDS or do not care.

Nonsense. If the troops do not follow the orders of their commanders then the Generals have no power at all. The military is all about doing things you don't want to do or that any rational person would refuse to do.

If the commanders order the troops to fire on the people and if the soldiers refuse, we have revolution.

If they get fired on they will fire back.

The army will not order them to just start shooting red shirts as a clearance tactic.

But if there is deadly force used against the army I would expect their orders are for equal force to be returned.

UNTIL the attack stops on them, and then reduce force as appropriate.

[Kilgore Trout]

Let me ask you something; do the soldiers and police get paid? Please explain to me how people are supposed to eat and take care of their families with no money. Of course a movement needs to be financed in whatever way it can. Wow, such ignorant comments from ignorant people.

The police are being paid to uphold the law. The army are being paid to protect the country from foreign and domestic threats. Many of the protesters are simply rented to be part of a lawless mob terrorizing a city and country for one man's hopeful gain.

Obviously there is a HUGE difference to find poor people and pay them to .....

forget it, why bother. I have to assume you know in your heart of hearts what is logical regardless of what you write.

I accept your argument and yes it does have some validity as there are probably "some" protesters just in it for the money, BUT, and a big BUT, the majority of these protesters are extremely poor, how could they possibly exercise their right to expression if they weren't getting something to live on and take care of their family. Its not like they are getting rich of of it, and they are risking their lives you know.

Oh, I suppose its ok that the yellow shirts who took over the airport BTW, are rich enough not to need to take money for not working, how many of them know what real work is anyway? I can't believe so many people support such an obviously elitist position. At least in your country if you are born poor you can still be successful if you work hard, try to see things for once from the poor Thai side.

[Netfan]

THE NATION: Jatuporn picked up the idea of Rwanda and said the crackdown of UDD means Thailand would become Rwanda.

Non-violent. Right.

[bangkokrick]

Let me ask you something; do the soldiers and police get paid? Please explain to me how people are supposed to eat and take care of their families with no money. Of course a movement needs to be financed in whatever way it can. Wow, such ignorant comments from ignorant people.

The police are being paid to uphold the law. The army are being paid to protect the country from foreign and domestic threats. Many of the protesters are simply rented to be part of a lawless mob terrorizing a city and country for one man's hopeful gain.

Obviously there is a HUGE difference to find poor people and pay them to .....

forget it, why bother. I have to assume you know in your heart of hearts what is logical regardless of what you write.

I accept your argument and yes it does have some validity as there are probably "some" protesters just in it for the money, BUT, and a big BUT, the majority of these protesters are extremely poor, how could they possibly exercise their right to expression if they weren't getting something to live on and take care of their family. Its not like they are getting rich of of it, and they are risking their lives you know.

Oh, I suppose its ok that the yellow shirts who took over the airport BTW, are rich enough not to need to take money for not working, how many of them know what real work is anyway? I can't believe so many people support such an obviously elitist position. At least in your country if you are born poor you can still be successful if you work hard, try to see things for once from the poor Thai side.

Pathetic. I personally know Thais from the North that are doing very well for themselves, by application and hard work. It's not impossible. Remember Thaksin was born in Chiangmai.

Cheers, Rick

[Kilgore Trout]

May be if the movement spend little more time working rather then "mobbing" they will not be as poor-just a thought!

or may be if the movement invested all that money into infrastructure in Isaan, rather then bombs and weapons then there will be less poverty.-just another thought

You said; "May be if the movement spend little more time working rather then "mobbing" they will not be as poor-just a thought!"

Please, can you tell me how much a farmer in Issan makes? What is their average salary? I would really like to know.

[Jockey]

The army will not order them to just start shooting red shirts as a clearance tactic.

They already have mate, where were you?

[bangkokrick]

THE NATION: Jatuporn picked up the idea of Rwanda and said the crackdown of UDD means Thailand would become Rwanda.

Non-violent. Right.

Violent indeed, but to be honest I doubt very much that Jatuporn would even know where Rwanda is.

Cheers, Rick

[jcbangkok]

Let me ask you something; do the soldiers and police get paid? Please explain to me how people are supposed to eat and take care of their families with no money. Of course a movement needs to be financed in whatever way it can. Wow, such ignorant comments from ignorant people.

The police are being paid to uphold the law. The army are being paid to protect the country from foreign and domestic threats. Many of the protesters are simply rented to be part of a lawless mob terrorizing a city and country for one man's hopeful gain.

Obviously there is a HUGE difference to find poor people and pay them to .....

forget it, why bother. I have to assume you know in your heart of hearts what is logical regardless of what you write.

I accept your argument and yes it does have some validity as there are probably "some" protesters just in it for the money, BUT, and a big BUT, the majority of these protesters are extremely poor, how could they possibly exercise their right to expression if they weren't getting something to live on and take care of their family. Its not like they are getting rich of of it, and they are risking their lives you know.

Oh, I suppose its ok that the yellow shirts who took over the airport BTW, are rich enough not to need to take money for not working, how many of them know what real work is anyway? I can't believe so many people support such an obviously elitist position. At least in your country if you are born poor you can still be successful if you work hard, try to see things for once from the poor Thai side.

Well the could express their opinion by voting in the next elections. The could right letters. The could go to their local leaders and express concern.

Do you know how much the average (middle class) person in BKK makes and how many hours they work? The cost of living? How about how many months a year the farmers work. Have you wondered the timing of these protesters the last 2 years? What the yellows did was insane and it should have been stopped but so should what the reds have done MANY times since then.

Who cares if people are rich or poor when it comes to their voices being heard. Sometimes in elections people get screwed and that is partly why elections are held every four years. If everything was perfect then there would only need to be new elections every generation.

The poor need to stop whining, complaining and demanding hand outs and instead work with leaders to develop plans to help them prosper OR do what the poor farmers do in every other country ... move to the city where the money and opportunities are.

[animatic]

So they are dropping the red shirts. We all know why, yes? So when the reds without red attack the Thai soldiers and the general public with lethal weapons, and they are filmed doing so, they can more conveniently deny responsibility.

Nattawut said the Reds would strip off the symbols of their allegiance and reveal their secret weapons

.

NO FAIR REDS !!!

Sticky sidewalks is the secret weapon?

Front line of 3,000 Rouged-up Katoeys on Viagra, cocked and ready to fire?

And some sort of rear-guard action shooting ping pong ball bombs?

Edited April 24, 2010 by animatic

[hammered]

Just wait for the speeches at 9 AM tomorrow. Does anyone really think a PM and army chief are going to do a pre-recorded video and then take such a risk as clearing thousands of people including hundreds armed?

[sawadeeken]

IMHO, the Reds are nothing but "TERRORISTS" and their followers, deep down inside -- Try a little sweetness at first but if it dont work then just be your real TERRORIST selves ........... with admitted COMMUNIST underlying traits......... I hope the government will be strong enough and tough enough to overcome this......... When anyone has been warned as much as the reds and all their "innocent", then they deserve what bloodshed the know is coming......... peaceful demonstration my A**...........

[Kilgore Trout]

Pathetic. I personally know Thais from the North that are doing very well for themselves, by application and hard work. It's not impossible. Remember Thaksin was born in Chiangmai.

Cheers, Rick

Big difference between the north and Isaan. I suppose its quite possible you are unaware of these details. Nevertheless, there is still a big red constituancy in the north.

[animatic]

The army will not order them to just start shooting red shirts as a clearance tactic.

They already have mate, where were you?

No they were fired on with war weapons before live rounds were used.

And the reds attacked the riot squad lines with hand held deadly weapons.

So your propaganda isn't working here, too many know the truth.

I know where I was, and I don't CARE where you were.

[DP25]

Why do people on here think its OK to hold the country hostage by taking over the countries international airport, use the army to take over power and shoot anyone who protests this oppression?

With respect to previous posts, using the UK as an analogy, Tony Blair is a war criminal and should be in jail. If he had been arrested (and he should have been) for lying to take the UK into war, would the UK have needed a military coup in order to invoke such an arrest and would the Conservative "blues" have to take over Heathrow because they didn't like the way the people still voted the Labour into power?

The yellow elites are the real terrorists in Thailand, backed by their army. They have stolen the leadership of the country. The red shirt protesters represent the ordinary people who just want a fair election. Why won't the elite give them a fair election? Is the answer to shoot the red protesters? I don't think so!

And why can't they wait until its time for elections? Why can't they not accept Abhisist's offer of early elections by the end of this year instead of the end of next year? Please explain.

The answer is obvious. They can't wait for elections because Thaksin's money was taken almost two months ago. They need to get him back in power NOW, by any means necessary and will certainly resort to violence during any poll, if they are to have a chance of getting the money back.

If the courts hadn't taken his money there would be no protests right now.

[madi]

Can any of the red apologists please explain to us how the logic of this red argument works

1. Abhisit is a yellow eliter, backed by the military

2. The military keep delibeartely messing up all their operations cos the military are reds.

Confused.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It works like this.

While the higher ups in the Thai military are likely very loyal to the Thai government and laws, the lower down military are overwhelmingly either neutral or reds.

Most Generals back Abhisit.

BUT--most of the Thai Military service men back REDS or do not care.

I don't believe it does work like that Madi, as it is well-known there are 'watermelons' in feeding jatuporn et al with vital info from government meetings, and Anupong - the HEAD of the army - keeps saying he wont' crackdown and the solution is to dissolve parliamsent. So how exactly is the gov't a military backed dictatroship? If what you say is true, the army would have come out guns blazing a long time ago and it would never have got to this, witness North Korea. THAT'S what happens when you have a military backed dicatatorship.

I get your point and I had to explain things the way I did to be polite to Thai people.

But I will explain a little more. The head of state in Thailand is not the PM.

The constitutional and national loyalty of the Thai generals is to the Thai Head of State. Guess who that is? These top and very wealthy generals are from old wealthy families. They are nice men, I know many of them-have played golf with them. They are simply following the law. The head of state in Thailand is guess who? They love their nation deeply and their head of state as well.

If one looks at things legally this way, and these smart and loyal Thai men do, the Thai generals will follow the orders from the head of state.

A Thai educated man can and will say to you with a straight and honest face that their has been no removal of the head of state in Thailand and thus no coup in Thailand in his lifetime.

PS

I never said we had a military backed dictatorship in Thailand. You assumed that I did.

The nation is run by a committee of old money families with their head of state. No military man has run Thailand in my lifetime or likely yours.

Thanks for your polite response.

I could be way off base but I am at the moment seeing things this way. I do know Top Thai military personally.

[hammered]

Changing colours is trying to goad martial law and curfew.

[warfie]

A disappointing but unsurprising response from the biggest stubborn mule PM the world has ever seen.

Nope, that would be the other guy, Thaksin.

I find it amazing that people blame the current government for the actions of Thaksin's rent-a-mob ... and don't just plae the blame where it belongs! Right at the feet of a convicted felon that is fomenting civil unrest in Thailand while he and his family hide overseas.

Abhist has shown willingness to compromise, Thaksin-led morons have not... so who is the 'stubborn mule' here?

[Netfan]

THE NATION: Jatuporn picked up the idea of Rwanda and said the crackdown of UDD means Thailand would become Rwanda.

Non-violent. Right.

Violent indeed, but to be honest I doubt very much that Jatuporn would even know where Rwanda is.

Cheers, Rick

Yeah, thats the hopeful way to look at it- that he has no idea of what he is saying. Because if he does know what he's talking about he's calling for killing squads to attack innocent men, women and children with machetes. Either way, this is a leader of the Reds and an MP!

Red apologists, speak up in his defense.