Worsening Crisis Pushes Thailand Towards Anarchy

[fullcave]

Perhaps things will change but outside of Bangkok, I do not see any anarchy at all. In fact nothing has changed in the least.. It does seem sometimes that Bangkok is separate from the rest of Thailand. Personally, I hope there is no more violence in Bangkok or anywhere else. But if their is violence in Bangkok, I do not believe this will necessarily lead to a civil war. As long as farmers have crops and vendors can sell their goods I think life will just go on.

Wrong, my friend, their is a strong UDD force here in the north; Thaksins home pace. For e.g there were 10 or so bombs up here (no injuries) in Chiang Mai. over the Song Kraan. Reds are everywhere. Do not underestimate their organisational abilities and financial support from a former PM.

Interesting in the south they all hate Thaksin so go figure.

[featography]

At least the current gov't is trying to make this a thing of the past and started with holding Thaksin (once the richest man in The Kingdom) accountable but he ran away because he was scared to face the courts to defend himself. Now he runs from a 2-year sentence while at the very minimum encourages poor Thais to risk their lives for his wealth and power.

Thaksin was once the richest man in the Kingdom? LOL! Surely there are others above him, right?

As a matter of fact, there was and still is one man richer than Taksin, and still is the richest man in Thailand; Forbes richest xxxxx in the world, 2009

[bulmercke]

I see crowds of reds almost daily (outside Bankok) and have never been threatened or felt in any danger. Of course if you just hate flag waving

mulam music and the smell of fermented fish.....you would probably feel terrorized. Good job Nation....nothing like the unbiased truth in journalism.

I spent the weekend with my GF inside the red shirt camp across from the Dusit. We were given free food, water, lots of conversation and even a foot rub. Not for a second did I feel threatened or in danger, other than from the massive police force that was gathering across the street. That made us uneasy. The reds did not cross the road nor solicit fighting of any kind during my stay with them, even when the multi-colored shirts were chanting for them to come out and fight.

While it is none of my business as to why they are doing this, I find their methods acceptable. In events where violence happens, you're not going to make an omelet unless you crack a few eggs. It's going to happen when you have a massive uprising from the people. Personally I feel some other areas of the world (those who want change - US Tea baggers coming to mind) could learn a thing or two from them.

Is it going to get messy? You bet it is. Forced change usually is. It's their country, let them do with it as they wish. Think back to how your own country was forged and how many lives were lost in the process before finally shaping into what it is today. Thailand has always been unstable and truth is, it's going to be unstable for many years to come. Sooner or later they will get it right.

What I do find embarrassing for Thailand is the governments reaction. The police and army are like keystone cops, lucky to not shoot their own feet off. How entire armed units can be stopped and stripped of their weapons by guys with sticks is beyond me. I would like to think they allow it because they do not want to fire on their fellow Thais and not because they are just that poorly trained. It seems the only group to fear is the black masked Rangers ("terrorists") who can put a bullet in the center of your forehead from a mile away. When these guys step back into the shadows, it's going to get ugly again.

All we can do is hope for as little bloodshed as possible, as a solution doesn't seem to be anywhere in sight.

Tokay - my sentiments exactly. My wife and I were also at the Red-Shirt protest site last Friday and Saturday and felt completely safe. The people were friendly and kind.

They're decent and civil people.

[bangkoklight]

The Yellows - in a world of their own, not shared by any other peoples of any other nation on the planet, but with the privileges only a Russian landlord in September 1917 could appreciate. :-) God bless their young minds and souls when the hit fits the shan - in about 72 hours. Remove a democratically elected government from power and this is what you get. And the Yellows still think Thaksin is the richest man in Thailand! LOL!

[tombradly]

A little understanding for the farmers of the North is in order here.

Would you work for 2000 baht a month in the fields?

Of course they are angry.

Ol' man river,

Dat ol' man river

He mus'know sumpin'

But don't say nuthin',

He jes'keeps rollin'

He keeps on rollin' along.

He don' plant taters/tators,

He don't plant cotton,

An' dem dat plants'em

is soon forgotten,

But ol'man river,

He jes keeps rollin'along.

You an'me, we sweat an' strain,

Body all achin' an' racket wid pain,

Tote dat barge!

Lif' dat bale!

Git a little drunk

An' you land in jail.

Ah gits weary

An' sick of tryin'

Ah'm tired of livin'

An' skeered of dyin',

But ol' man river,

He jes'keeps rolling' along.

[Colored folks work on de Mississippi,

Colored folks work while de white folks play,

Pullin' dose boats from de dawn to sunset,

Gittin' no rest till de judgement day.

or musical part]

Don't look up

An' don't look down,

You don' dast make

De white boss frown.

Bend your knees

An'bow your head,

An' pull date rope

Until you' dead.)

Let me go 'way from the Mississippi,

Let me go 'way from de white man boss;

Show me dat stream called de river Jordan,

Dat's de ol' stream dat I long to cross.

O' man river,

Dat ol' man river,

He mus'know sumpin'

But don't say nuthin'

He jes' keeps rollin'

He keeps on rollin' along.

Long ol' river forever keeps rollin' on...

He don' plant tater,

He don' plant cotton,

An' dem dat plants 'em

Is soon forgotten,

but ol' man river,

He jes' keeps rollin' along.

Long ol' river keeps hearing dat song.

You an' me, we sweat an' strain,

Body all achin an' racked wid pain.

Tote dat barge!

Lif' dat bale!

Git a little drunk

An' you land in jail.

Ah, gits weary

An' sick of tryin'

Ah'm tired of livin'

An' skeered of dyin',

But ol' man river,

He jes'keeps rollin' along!

<script language=JavaScript src="../../ringdown_song.js">

[Jerrytheyoung]

Perhaps things will change but outside of Bangkok, I do not see any anarchy at all. In fact nothing has changed in the least.. It does seem sometimes that Bangkok is separate from the rest of Thailand. Personally, I hope there is no more violence in Bangkok or anywhere else. But if their is violence in Bangkok, I do not believe this will necessarily lead to a civil war. As long as farmers have crops and vendors can sell their goods I think life will just go on.

Wrong, my friend, their is a strong UDD force here in the north; Thaksins home pace. For e.g there were 10 or so bombs up here (no injuries) in Chiang Mai. over the Song Kraan. Reds are everywhere. Do not underestimate their organisational abilities and financial support from a former PM.

Interesting in the south they all hate Thaksin so go figure.

A lot of things has happened during the 10th April bloodbath, amidst all the events.... a strong indication that Army factions have settled some old accounts. They are now looking at each other: the first who moves is the looser....easy to understand...This comes on top of the Red/yellow shirts differences.

[BNZ]

I see crowds of reds almost daily (outside Bankok) and have never been threatened or felt in any danger. Of course if you just hate flag waving

mulam music and the smell of fermented fish.....you would probably feel terrorized. Good job Nation....nothing like the unbiased truth in journalism.

I spent the weekend with my GF inside the red shirt camp across from the Dusit. We were given free food, water, lots of conversation and even a foot rub. Not for a second did I feel threatened or in danger, other than from the massive police force that was gathering across the street. That made us uneasy. The reds did not cross the road nor solicit fighting of any kind during my stay with them, even when the multi-colored shirts were chanting for them to come out and fight.

While it is none of my business as to why they are doing this, I find their methods acceptable. In events where violence happens, you're not going to make an omelet unless you crack a few eggs. It's going to happen when you have a massive uprising from the people. Personally I feel some other areas of the world (those who want change - US Tea baggers coming to mind) could learn a thing or two from them.

Is it going to get messy? You bet it is. Forced change usually is. It's their country, let them do with it as they wish. Think back to how your own country was forged and how many lives were lost in the process before finally shaping into what it is today. Thailand has always been unstable and truth is, it's going to be unstable for many years to come. Sooner or later they will get it right.

What I do find embarrassing for Thailand is the governments reaction. The police and army are like keystone cops, lucky to not shoot their own feet off. How entire armed units can be stopped and stripped of their weapons by guys with sticks is beyond me. I would like to think they allow it because they do not want to fire on their fellow Thais and not because they are just that poorly trained. It seems the only group to fear is the black masked Rangers ("terrorists") who can put a bullet in the center of your forehead from a mile away. When these guys step back into the shadows, it's going to get ugly again.

All we can do is hope for as little bloodshed as possible, as a solution doesn't seem to be anywhere in sight.

Oh dear, you're suffering from the 'Stockholm Syndrome'. 

You should have spent the weekend 'IN' the Dusit wining, dining, living it up and looking down at the armed rabble and you wouldn't be so pessimistic.

...More Champagne !

Abhisit in by a landslide !

[way2muchcoffee]

I see crowds of reds almost daily (outside Bankok) and have never been threatened or felt in any danger. Of course if you just hate flag waving

mulam music and the smell of fermented fish.....you would probably feel terrorized. Good job Nation....nothing like the unbiased truth in journalism.

I spent the weekend with my GF inside the red shirt camp across from the Dusit. We were given free food, water, lots of conversation and even a foot rub. Not for a second did I feel threatened or in danger, other than from the massive police force that was gathering across the street. That made us uneasy. The reds did not cross the road nor solicit fighting of any kind during my stay with them, even when the multi-colored shirts were chanting for them to come out and fight.

While it is none of my business as to why they are doing this, I find their methods acceptable. In events where violence happens, you're not going to make an omelet unless you crack a few eggs. It's going to happen when you have a massive uprising from the people. Personally I feel some other areas of the world (those who want change - US Tea baggers coming to mind) could learn a thing or two from them.

Is it going to get messy? You bet it is. Forced change usually is. It's their country, let them do with it as they wish. Think back to how your own country was forged and how many lives were lost in the process before finally shaping into what it is today. Thailand has always been unstable and truth is, it's going to be unstable for many years to come. Sooner or later they will get it right.

What I do find embarrassing for Thailand is the governments reaction. The police and army are like keystone cops, lucky to not shoot their own feet off. How entire armed units can be stopped and stripped of their weapons by guys with sticks is beyond me. I would like to think they allow it because they do not want to fire on their fellow Thais and not because they are just that poorly trained. It seems the only group to fear is the black masked Rangers ("terrorists") who can put a bullet in the center of your forehead from a mile away. When these guys step back into the shadows, it's going to get ugly again.

All we can do is hope for as little bloodshed as possible, as a solution doesn't seem to be anywhere in sight.

Tokay - my sentiments exactly. My wife and I were also at the Red-Shirt protest site last Friday and Saturday and felt completely safe. The people were friendly and kind.

They're decent and civil people.

Of course the majority of the red shirt demonstrators are decent people. Salt of the Earth in many ways. Thais from all walks of life tend to be kind, generous, and fun. The problem is they are demonstrating illegally, harboring terrorists, and holding the citizens of Bangkok hostage.

Edited April 27, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[jdinasia]

Perhaps things will change but outside of Bangkok, I do not see any anarchy at all. In fact nothing has changed in the least.. It does seem sometimes that Bangkok is separate from the rest of Thailand. Personally, I hope there is no more violence in Bangkok or anywhere else. But if their is violence in Bangkok, I do not believe this will necessarily lead to a civil war. As long as farmers have crops and vendors can sell their goods I think life will just go on.

Wrong, my friend, their is a strong UDD force here in the north; Thaksins home pace. For e.g there were 10 or so bombs up here (no injuries) in Chiang Mai. over the Song Kraan. Reds are everywhere. Do not underestimate their organisational abilities and financial support from a former PM.

Interesting in the south they all hate Thaksin so go figure.

A lot of things has happened during the 10th April bloodbath, amidst all the events.... a strong indication that Army factions have settled some old accounts. They are now looking at each other: the first who moves is the looser....easy to understand...This comes on top of the Red/yellow shirts differences.

Please feel free to explain all of this to us since you seem to be "in the know", since most of us seem to see this as Sae Daeng's Ronin fighting for Thaksin and the violent red mob and not much really to do with 'factions' in the army.

[way2muchcoffee]

lPlease feel free to explain all of this to us since you seem to be "in the know", since most of us seem to see this as Sae Daeng's Ronin fighting for Thaksin and the violent red mob and not much really to do with 'factions' in the army.

I believe he is referring to the New Mandala article. An article in The Economist also spoke of army factions.

Edited April 27, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[jdinasia]

The Yellows - in a world of their own, not shared by any other peoples of any other nation on the planet, but with the privileges only a Russian landlord in September 1917 could appreciate. :-) God bless their young minds and souls when the hit fits the shan - in about 72 hours. Remove a democratically elected government from power and this is what you get. And the Yellows still think Thaksin is the richest man in Thailand! LOL!

Thankfully no "Democratically elected government" has been removed from power in this decade unless you mean by democratic means There was one caretaker government that was not elected and was extra-constitutional that was removed though .....

(nice try but just not true at all!)

[jdinasia]

lPlease feel free to explain all of this to us since you seem to be "in the know", since most of us seem to see this as Sae Daeng's Ronin fighting for Thaksin and the violent red mob and not much really to do with 'factions' in the army.

I believe he is referring to the New Mandala article. An article in The Economist also spoke of army factions.

I read the articles and they were certainly shy on any facts and had plenty of conjecture. I guess since Sae Daeng is a Maj Gen --- that you might be able to talk about him and his Ronin as a 'faction'.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Of course the majority of the red shirt demonstrators are decent people. Salt of the Earth in many ways. Thais from all walks of life tend to be kind, generous, and fun. The problem is they are demonstrating illegally, harboring terrorists, and holding the citizens of Bangkok hostage.

They just request their share of the wealth accumulated in Thailand than Bankokian Middle/Upper class has appropriate to itself. It is just a fair request for income redistribution. "Please do not less us on the side of the pdevelopment road".

Terrorists???? more and more it seems that is is "OK Corral' between some army factions. Is Army now a bunch of terrorists or potential terrorists? I let the responsability of this opinion to way2muchcoffeee

[tombradly]

Logic here can tell you a lot.

If the current government thought it could win, it would call for a fast election. It is not doing so.

So, it obviously thinks it will lose an election.

The rich are afraid of an uprising from the poor and their fear is legitimate.

The poor are angry of being abused with super low wages and terrible working conditions and they are on solid ground in being angry about these things.

How will reform take place? It must take place you know.

What is really stupid is that the current government could take much of the power away from the reds by simply implementing reforms. Why is it that it does not do so?

Are the rich here so out of touch with reality?

[way2muchcoffee]

Of course the majority of the red shirt demonstrators are decent people. Salt of the Earth in many ways. Thais from all walks of life tend to be kind, generous, and fun. The problem is they are demonstrating illegally, harboring terrorists, and holding the citizens of Bangkok hostage.

They just request their share of the wealth accumulated in Thailand than Bankokian Middle/Upper class has appropriate to itself. It is just a fair request for income redistribution. "Please do not less us on the side of the pdevelopment road".

Terrorists???? more and more it seems that is is "OK Corral' between some army factions. Is Army now a bunch of terrorists or potential terrorists? I let the responsability of this opinion to way2muchcoffeee

Do you not view firing on soldiers, throwing grenades, impaling security personnel with sharpened bamboo rods, threatening to blow up the BTS, blowing up the BTS, throwing molotov cocktails, making death threats to government leaders, kidnapping, etc. etc. etc. as terrorists actions?

The military and police have a duty to uphold the law and protect the monarcy. That is their duty, whether individuals in those forces like it or not. It is a stretch to call them terrorists for firing after they had been violently attacked while doing their duty.

Edited April 27, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[lannarebirth]

Of course the majority of the red shirt demonstrators are decent people. Salt of the Earth in many ways. Thais from all walks of life tend to be kind, generous, and fun. The problem is they are demonstrating illegally, harboring terrorists, and holding the citizens of Bangkok hostage.

They just request their share of the wealth accumulated in Thailand than Bankokian Middle/Upper class has appropriate to itself. It is just a fair request for income redistribution. "Please do not less us on the side of the pdevelopment road".

Terrorists???? more and more it seems that is is "OK Corral' between some army factions. Is Army now a bunch of terrorists or potential terrorists? I let the responsability of this opinion to way2muchcoffeee

Ok Jerry, You're the PM and this is the scenario. Family: mother, father, a grandparent an aunty, 2 kids, all sitting on 5 rai of paddy land in the middle of Isaan. One crop per year if the weather gods are smiling. What are you going to do for these people? Should that 5 rai have to support the 2 kids in the next generation?

[cmsally]

Please feel free to explain all of this to us since you seem to be "in the know", since most of us seem to see this as Sae Daeng's Ronin fighting for Thaksin and the violent red mob and not much really to do with 'factions' in the army.

You will need to check on the death of the colonel, who was one of the leaders in the crackdown of last year.

It's in the New Mandala article and essentially the divisions pointed out were very much in existence last year, but not enough preparation was made last year to counteract, however there certainly wasn't a defeat except for the one on the streets.

This year the conflict is essentially the same but more multi faceted. The article seems to suggest that since then more have moved sides also.

[way2muchcoffee]

Ok Jerry, You're the PM and this is the scenario. Family: mother, father, a grandparent an aunty, 2 kids, all sitting on 5 rai of paddy land in the middle of Isaan. One crop per year if the weather gods are smiling. What are you going to do for these people? Should that 5 rai have to support the 2 kids in the next generation?

Or even more realistic. Thirty years ago there is a typical family: mother, father, aunty, and 4 children. They are barely getting by on their 5 rai of land. These 4 children grow up, get married and now there are 16 children from four families for a total of 30 people, including grandma, granddad, and aunty all trying to live off that same 5 rai of land. What is to be done?

Edited April 27, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[lannarebirth]

Ok Jerry, You're the PM and this is the scenario. Family: mother, father, a grandparent an aunty, 2 kids, all sitting on 5 rai of paddy land in the middle of Isaan. One crop per year if the weather gods are smiling. What are you going to do for these people? Should that 5 rai have to support the 2 kids in the next generation?

Or even more realistic. Family: mother, father, aunty, 4 children are barely getting by on their 5 rai of land. These 4 children grow up, get married and now there are 16 children from four families for a total of 24 people all trying to live off that same 5 rai of land. What is to be done?

And what should they be doing for themselves?

[tombradly]

Of course the majority of the red shirt demonstrators are decent people. Salt of the Earth in many ways. Thais from all walks of life tend to be kind, generous, and fun. The problem is they are demonstrating illegally, harboring terrorists, and holding the citizens of Bangkok hostage.

They just request their share of the wealth accumulated in Thailand than Bankokian Middle/Upper class has appropriate to itself. It is just a fair request for income redistribution. "Please do not less us on the side of the development road".

Terrorists???? more and more it seems that is is "OK Corral' between some army factions. Is Army now a bunch of terrorists or potential terrorists? I let the responsibility of this opinion to way2muchcoffeee

Do you not view firing on soldiers, throwing grenades, impaling security personnel with sharpened bamboo rods, threatening to blow up the BTS, blowing up the BTS, making death threats to government leaders, kidnapping, etc. etc. etc. as terrorists actions?

Pardon me for interrupting.

Of course if it were done from some group outside of Thailand to Thailand, it would be terrorism. if it were done by some fringe group inside of Thailand, it also would be terrorism.

But when the group doing the violence likely could win an election, if one were held, it becomes a fight for freedom, democracy, liberty, and human rights.

Which group has been harmed by government action since 2006?

The Reds

Just increase pay

Increase medical treatments

Give better working conditions

The red revolution will fade.

People who are poor in Thailand have every right to be angry here in Thailand don't you think? Again, would any of you work for 2000 baht a month in the fields?

If it is not slavery it is sure close to being slavery.

It is very similar to the share cropping seen in America in the south after the war between the states. You work all month for 2000 baht and have to pay the owner back almost all of the pay to live on his land.

[Netfan]

I see crowds of reds almost daily (outside Bankok) and have never been threatened or felt in any danger. Of course if you just hate flag waving

mulam music and the smell of fermented fish.....you would probably feel terrorized. Good job Nation....nothing like the unbiased truth in journalism.

I spent the weekend with my GF inside the red shirt camp across from the Dusit. We were given free food, water, lots of conversation and even a foot rub. Not for a second did I feel threatened or in danger, other than from the massive police force that was gathering across the street. That made us uneasy. The reds did not cross the road nor solicit fighting of any kind during my stay with them, even when the multi-colored shirts were chanting for them to come out and fight.

While it is none of my business as to why they are doing this, I find their methods acceptable. In events where violence happens, you're not going to make an omelet unless you crack a few eggs. It's going to happen when you have a massive uprising from the people. Personally I feel some other areas of the world (those who want change - US Tea baggers coming to mind) could learn a thing or two from them.

Is it going to get messy? You bet it is. Forced change usually is. It's their country, let them do with it as they wish. Think back to how your own country was forged and how many lives were lost in the process before finally shaping into what it is today. Thailand has always been unstable and truth is, it's going to be unstable for many years to come. Sooner or later they will get it right.

What I do find embarrassing for Thailand is the governments reaction. The police and army are like keystone cops, lucky to not shoot their own feet off. How entire armed units can be stopped and stripped of their weapons by guys with sticks is beyond me. I would like to think they allow it because they do not want to fire on their fellow Thais and not because they are just that poorly trained. It seems the only group to fear is the black masked Rangers ("terrorists") who can put a bullet in the center of your forehead from a mile away. When these guys step back into the shadows, it's going to get ugly again.

All we can do is hope for as little bloodshed as possible, as a solution doesn't seem to be anywhere in sight.

Tokay - my sentiments exactly. My wife and I were also at the Red-Shirt protest site last Friday and Saturday and felt completely safe. The people were friendly and kind.

They're decent and civil people.

Of course you felt safe within the Red camp. The Reds weren't shooting slingshots, throwing firecrackers and firing grenades into their own people - they were shooting them OUT- at the other group, civilians and the BTS station.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Logic here can tell you a lot.

If the current government thought it could win, it would call for a fast election. It is not doing so.

So, it obviously thinks it will lose an election.

The rich are afraid of an uprising from the poor and their fear is legitimate.

The poor are angry of being abused with super low wages and terrible working conditions and they are on solid ground in being angry about these things.

How will reform take place? It must take place you know.

What is really stupid is that the current government could take much of the power away from the reds by simply implementing reforms. Why is it that it does not do so?

Are the rich here so out of touch with reality?

This is exactly what I have explained several times since one month. However, now,the situation is far more complex to defuse, Abhisit has lost a precious time and I do not think he is in a position to make such proposals: too late..... it should be the job of his successor.

[4223rhodes]

I see crowds of reds almost daily (outside Bankok) and have never been threatened or felt in any danger. Of course if you just hate flag waving

mulam music and the smell of fermented fish.....you would probably feel terrorized. Good job Nation....nothing like the unbiased truth in journalism.

I spent the weekend with my GF inside the red shirt camp across from the Dusit. We were given free food, water, lots of conversation and even a foot rub. Not for a second did I feel threatened or in danger, other than from the massive police force that was gathering across the street. That made us uneasy. The reds did not cross the road nor solicit fighting of any kind during my stay with them, even when the multi-colored shirts were chanting for them to come out and fight.

While it is none of my business as to why they are doing this, I find their methods acceptable. In events where violence happens, you're not going to make an omelet unless you crack a few eggs. It's going to happen when you have a massive uprising from the people. Personally I feel some other areas of the world (those who want change - US Tea baggers coming to mind) could learn a thing or two from them.

Is it going to get messy? You bet it is. Forced change usually is. It's their country, let them do with it as they wish. Think back to how your own country was forged and how many lives were lost in the process before finally shaping into what it is today. Thailand has always been unstable and truth is, it's going to be unstable for many years to come. Sooner or later they will get it right.

What I do find embarrassing for Thailand is the governments reaction. The police and army are like keystone cops, lucky to not shoot their own feet off. How entire armed units can be stopped and stripped of their weapons by guys with sticks is beyond me. I would like to think they allow it because they do not want to fire on their fellow Thais and not because they are just that poorly trained. It seems the only group to fear is the black masked Rangers ("terrorists") who can put a bullet in the center of your forehead from a mile away. When these guys step back into the shadows, it's going to get ugly again.

All we can do is hope for as little bloodshed as possible, as a solution doesn't seem to be anywhere in sight.

Tokay - my sentiments exactly. My wife and I were also at the Red-Shirt protest site last Friday and Saturday and felt completely safe. The people were friendly and kind.

They're decent and civil people.

Of course you felt safe within the Red camp. The Reds weren't shooting slingshots, throwing firecrackers and firing grenades into their own people - they were shooting them OUT- at the other group, civilians and the BTS station.

It's not quite so black and white as it appears. You might glance at new mandala, pundit or a variety of good sources for a clearer view. The Abhisit govt kool-aid a tasty yellow, but very toxic in the end.

[jcbangkok]

At least the current gov't is trying to make this a thing of the past and started with holding Thaksin (once the richest man in The Kingdom) accountable but he ran away because he was scared to face the courts to defend himself. Now he runs from a 2-year sentence while at the very minimum encourages poor Thais to risk their lives for his wealth and power.

Thaksin was once the richest man in the Kingdom? LOL! Surely there are others above him, right?

As a matter of fact, there was and still is one man richer than Taksin, and still is the richest man in Thailand; Forbes richest xxxxx in the world, 2009

You are wrong. Before Thaksin went into politics, he was the richest man in Thailand but because of law had to release all interest but 5% in his companies (which we all know went to his son .. wink wink)

EDIT: From Forbes:

The magazine noted that because many of the royals inherited their wealth, share it with extended families, and often control it “in trust for their nation or territory,” none of those on its list would qualify for the magazine’s famous annual world billionaires ranking.

Edited April 27, 2010 by jcbangkok

[way2muchcoffee]

Of course the majority of the red shirt demonstrators are decent people. Salt of the Earth in many ways. Thais from all walks of life tend to be kind, generous, and fun. The problem is they are demonstrating illegally, harboring terrorists, and holding the citizens of Bangkok hostage.

They just request their share of the wealth accumulated in Thailand than Bankokian Middle/Upper class has appropriate to itself. It is just a fair request for income redistribution. "Please do not less us on the side of the development road".

Terrorists???? more and more it seems that is is "OK Corral' between some army factions. Is Army now a bunch of terrorists or potential terrorists? I let the responsibility of this opinion to way2muchcoffeee

Do you not view firing on soldiers, throwing grenades, impaling security personnel with sharpened bamboo rods, threatening to blow up the BTS, blowing up the BTS, making death threats to government leaders, kidnapping, etc. etc. etc. as terrorists actions?

Pardon me for interrupting.

Of course if it were done from some group outside of Thailand to Thailand, it would be terrorism. if it were done by some fringe group inside of Thailand, it also would be terrorism.

But when the group doing the violence likely could win an election, if one were held, it becomes a fight for freedom, democracy, liberty, and human rights.

Which group has been harmed by government action since 2006?

The Reds

Just increase pay

Increase medical treatments

Give better working conditions

The red revolution will fade.

People who are poor in Thailand have every right to be angry here in Thailand don't you think? Again, would any of you work for 2000 baht a month in the fields?

If it is not slavery it is sure close to being slavery.

It is very similar to the share cropping seen in America in the south after the war between the states. You work all month for 2000 baht and have to pay the owner back almost all of the pay to live on his land.

They don't have to be farmers. Rice farming is seasonal, with work for only 4-5 months a year, and even then it isn't steady. Family farming is not a sustainable business model. Already they are being subsidized by the government, and they pay no taxes. The only way to make any money farming is to own very large plots and use modern equipment to farm. This is the state of farming in the modern world.

I certainly understand the anger of low wages though. Minimum wage is ridiculously low here. But at the same time living costs are very low as well. Thailand relies heavily on exports. This means they are competing against China, Myanmar, Cambodia, Viet Nam etc. Wages are even lower in those countries so if Thailand is to compete in the world market wages must be low here as well.

Certainly there is vast room for improvement in regards to infrastructure and other items along the lines that Jerrytheyoung has mentioned in numerous posts. This is where the effort should be made IMO.

Edited April 27, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[featography]

At least the current gov't is trying to make this a thing of the past and started with holding Thaksin (once the richest man in The Kingdom) accountable but he ran away because he was scared to face the courts to defend himself. Now he runs from a 2-year sentence while at the very minimum encourages poor Thais to risk their lives for his wealth and power.

Thaksin was once the richest man in the Kingdom? LOL! Surely there are others above him, right?

As a matter of fact, there was and still is one man richer than Taksin, and still is the richest man in Thailand; Forbes richest xxxxx in the world, 2009

You are wrong. Before Thaksin went into politics, he was the richest man in Thailand but because of law had to release all interest but 5% in his companies (which we all know went to his son .. wink wink)

Ill be sure to notify Forbes and let them know they are wrong and you know the facts.....wink wink)

Edited April 27, 2010 by featography

[tombradly]

At least the current gov't is trying to make this a thing of the past and started with holding Thaksin (once the richest man in The Kingdom) accountable but he ran away because he was scared to face the courts to defend himself. Now he runs from a 2-year sentence while at the very minimum encourages poor Thais to risk their lives for his wealth and power.

Thaksin was once the richest man in the Kingdom? LOL! Surely there are others above him, right?

As a matter of fact, there was and still is one man richer than Taksin, and still is the richest man in Thailand; Forbes richest xxxxx in the world, 2009

You are wrong. Before Thaksin went into politics, he was the richest man in Thailand but because of law had to release all interest but 5% in his companies (which we all know went to his son .. wink wink)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lot of richer in Thailand than Thaksin ever was.

1. Chaleo Yoovidhya
   
2. Charoen Sirivadhanabhakdi
   
3. Dhanin Chearavanont & family
   
4. Vichai Maleenont & family
   
5. Somporn Juangroongruangkit & family
   
6. Prayudh Mahagitsiri & family
   
7. Sunsurn Jurangkool & family
   
8. Vanich Chaiyawan & family
   
9. Sasithorn Ratanarak & family
   
10. William Heinecke
    
11. Anant Asavabhokin
    
12. Nishita Shah
    
13. Wanida Chirathivat & family
    
14. Thaksin Shinawatra
    

[bulmercke]

I see crowds of reds almost daily (outside Bankok) and have never been threatened or felt in any danger. Of course if you just hate flag waving

mulam music and the smell of fermented fish.....you would probably feel terrorized. Good job Nation....nothing like the unbiased truth in journalism.

I spent the weekend with my GF inside the red shirt camp across from the Dusit. We were given free food, water, lots of conversation and even a foot rub. Not for a second did I feel threatened or in danger, other than from the massive police force that was gathering across the street. That made us uneasy. The reds did not cross the road nor solicit fighting of any kind during my stay with them, even when the multi-colored shirts were chanting for them to come out and fight.

While it is none of my business as to why they are doing this, I find their methods acceptable. In events where violence happens, you're not going to make an omelet unless you crack a few eggs. It's going to happen when you have a massive uprising from the people. Personally I feel some other areas of the world (those who want change - US Tea baggers coming to mind) could learn a thing or two from them.

Is it going to get messy? You bet it is. Forced change usually is. It's their country, let them do with it as they wish. Think back to how your own country was forged and how many lives were lost in the process before finally shaping into what it is today. Thailand has always been unstable and truth is, it's going to be unstable for many years to come. Sooner or later they will get it right.

What I do find embarrassing for Thailand is the governments reaction. The police and army are like keystone cops, lucky to not shoot their own feet off. How entire armed units can be stopped and stripped of their weapons by guys with sticks is beyond me. I would like to think they allow it because they do not want to fire on their fellow Thais and not because they are just that poorly trained. It seems the only group to fear is the black masked Rangers ("terrorists") who can put a bullet in the center of your forehead from a mile away. When these guys step back into the shadows, it's going to get ugly again.

All we can do is hope for as little bloodshed as possible, as a solution doesn't seem to be anywhere in sight.

Tokay - my sentiments exactly. My wife and I were also at the Red-Shirt protest site last Friday and Saturday and felt completely safe. The people were friendly and kind.

They're decent and civil people.

Of course you felt safe within the Red camp. The Reds weren't shooting slingshots, throwing firecrackers and firing grenades into their own people - they were shooting them OUT- at the other group, civilians and the BTS station.

You weren't there - so I really don't think you're that qualified to comment.

[jcbangkok]

You are wrong. Before Thaksin went into politics, he was the richest man in Thailand but because of law had to release all interest but 5% in his companies (which we all know went to his son .. wink wink)

Ill be sure to notify Forbes and let them know they are wrong and you know the facts

You may just want to spend a little more time reading.

First of all, you are quoting a year which is clearly numerous years after Thaksin had to divest all his interests but 5%. Second it is clear the person in question's wealth increased 7 fold in just the last year. Third and most importantly this is an article about Royal's wealth around the world and Forbes states:

The magazine noted that because many of the royals inherited their wealth, share it with extended families, and often control it “in trust for their nation or territory,” none of those on its list would qualify for the magazine’s famous annual world billionaires ranking.

Edited April 27, 2010 by jcbangkok

[Jerrytheyoung]

Ok Jerry, You're the PM and this is the scenario. Family: mother, father, a grandparent an aunty, 2 kids, all sitting on 5 rai of paddy land in the middle of Isaan. One crop per year if the weather gods are smiling. What are you going to do for these people? Should that 5 rai have to support the 2 kids in the next generation?

Or even more realistic. Family: mother, father, aunty, 4 children are barely getting by on their 5 rai of land. These 4 children grow up, get married and now there are 16 children from four families for a total of 24 people all trying to live off that same 5 rai of land. What is to be done?

And what should they be doing for themselves?

Wow....I have already explained 4 or 5 times that Thailand need a "Town and Country Planning", that Thailand is exactly in the same situation than France 50 years ago and that French have succeeded to reduced their farming population from 50% of the population to 5%.

It must be a very large policy with infrastructure investments, delocalisation of some industries, modernisation of agriculture (subsidised until the Agriculture reaches International Standards), regrouping of small farmers in cooperative/ associations, banking support and siubsidising for equipment of thoose cooperatives....

A fund for bad weather (drought, flood, storms...) in order to garantee an income, progressively converted in a mandatory insurance.

Prices of major agricultural products sustained in order to garantee a minimum income, until the internatrional Standards are met. (Subsidising Agriculture like we have done in USA or in Europe)

A revision of the Thai Budget is required with a large part allocated to this policy. At the end it will cost less than the migration of the northern population in Bangkokian suburban belt with all the costs associated with the mushrooming of the Megapole.

I have also stated than some Thai Academics well aware of the French policy were very impressed.

I have also stated that this must be accompanied by a Decentralisation (Political and Administrative with elected governors and local parliament- similar to the States in USA or the French regions....

I have developped several times all this. Please look in my previous posts.