Chulalongkorn Hospital Evacuated After Stormed By Red-Shirts

[whybother]

Now the red leaders can't control the ... other red leaders.

The red leaders at the stage have "ordered" that the barricade in front of the hospital be removed, but Sae Daeng has rejected the order.

It's a good chance for the red leaders to step back and blame Sae Daeng for all the bad things that the reds have done.

[bkkjames]

What's next, they gonna start searching my groceries on the way out to see if my chicken is free range red or force fed yellow? Thonglor BIB won't be happy about the competition.

[jucel]

A free press would ask "Was it necesary to evacuate?" The hospital search was an absolute disgrace, but is evacuating a hospital for PR gains any better?

How could you possibily know it was for PR gain unless you were a doctor at the hospital? You couldn't and you are not. You are desperately looking for a way to spin this whole mess around and apportion blame away from the culprits.

I too condemn the actions of the reds on thurs night but also being a cynical so and so believe it was just what the govt were waiting for. A big slip up by the reds which they could turn to their advantage. It was pretty obvious by fri morning that the reds were not going back into the hospital. Then to wheel very sick people/kids out for a photo opportunity smacks of desperate measures from abhisit and his cronies to gain back some ground!

Both sides are using people as pawns in an increasingly protracted game of chess

[jdinasia]

A free press would ask "Was it necesary to evacuate?" The hospital search was an absolute disgrace, but is evacuating a hospital for PR gains any better?

How could you possibily know it was for PR gain unless you were a doctor at the hospital? You couldn't and you are not. You are desperately looking for a way to spin this whole mess around and apportion blame away from the culprits.

I too condemn the actions of the reds on thurs night but also being a cynical so and so believe it was just what the govt were waiting for. A big slip up by the reds which they could turn to their advantage. It was pretty obvious by fri morning that the reds were not going back into the hospital. Then to wheel very sick people/kids out for a photo opportunity smacks of desperate measures from abhisit and his cronies to gain back some ground!

Both sides are using people as pawns in an increasingly protracted game of chess

Again a pro-red poster says that the decision made by Doctors and hospital administration is political .. but this one goes on to say it was the PM "and his cronies" that made the decision totally ignoring that hospital employees were taken away as suspected military ....

The Dr's and administration made a decision based upon what they saw as medical neccesity ... please tell us again how it was PR .. then tell us about your medical credentials and if you were there for the decisions that were made!

[whybother]

A free press would ask "Was it necesary to evacuate?" The hospital search was an absolute disgrace, but is evacuating a hospital for PR gains any better?

How could you possibily know it was for PR gain unless you were a doctor at the hospital? You couldn't and you are not. You are desperately looking for a way to spin this whole mess around and apportion blame away from the culprits.

I too condemn the actions of the reds on thurs night but also being a cynical so and so believe it was just what the govt were waiting for. A big slip up by the reds which they could turn to their advantage. It was pretty obvious by fri morning that the reds were not going back into the hospital. Then to wheel very sick people/kids out for a photo opportunity smacks of desperate measures from abhisit and his cronies to gain back some ground!

Both sides are using people as pawns in an increasingly protracted game of chess

Obvious?

A red leader negotiated that 5 reds would search the hospital. 100-200 reds (carrying spears) searched the hospital.

One red leader apologised. Others said it was justified.

One red leader organised the removal of barricades. Another leader ordered it replaced.

The red leaders can't even agree. With Sae Daeng in charge down there, how does anyone know what the protestors are going to do next?

[lazurus]

Everyone agrees that the 2006 Coup was wrong, but everyone should know that its just getting a big PR gain for the Reds.

I don't

I don't agree either. The coup was the most peaceful one in Thai history. The army were welcomed by the people. The situation prior to the coup had become intolerable and unfortunately the coup was the only way forward. Maybe all the red Thaksin supporters agree, but that doesn't include everyone.

[Jingthing]

It is true. The coup was popular. However, enough is enough. Thailand can't do coups forever. Well, it can I suppose, but that's not progress.

Edited May 1, 2010 by Jingthing

[Mosha]

After the coup, the Thais were doing cartwheels down here in the south.

[Mosha]

We were visiting family in Hat Yai and driving up to Pak Phanang in Nakhon Sri Thammerat, when the coup was staged. When I found out I was dreading the drive back here, but not one checkpoint except the usual ones in Ranong did we see. Even the Surat Thani traffic cops were absent.

[jdinasia]

After the coup, the Thais were doing cartwheels down here in the south.

Amongst my friends from all over the country they were ALL pleased with the coup at the time. I lived in Kamala (small Muslim village in Phuket) at the time and talked to friends from BKK, KohnKaen, Chiang Mai, Nakhon Nayok, and HadYai --- ALL of them were in favor of the coup.

I agreed.

edit ---

almost all of my friends are University graduates ... none of them are "elite"

Edited May 1, 2010 by jdinasia

[JohnLeech]

What i find difficult to grasp in all of this, is that despite the overwhelming evidence of corruption, murder and intent to harm the Royal Household, there are foreign people on this forum who advocate the actions of the Reds. Many people have linked Thaksin (RIP) and his cronies to Maoism and Communism. Was it a coincidence the leaders of the movement chose the colour red? I try and get inside the head of others to understand fully their opinions, but you know, I just can't get there with you red apologists.

Tigs, don't forget that during the Thaksin years, white collar curruption was rampant. That required a lot of people working in the money laundering business and boiler rooms. That has been cut off. These reds supporters are trained to lie, lie, lie and deny. It is second nature to them to lie. We are left here with these cronic liers. They want their freedom of crime back. They want complete control of the country. And without the monarchy.

Similarily, this was tried in Nepal which resulted in the 28 of the Royal Family being massacred by machine guns in 2001. That resulted in uprising of the Nepal people and backfired on them. Most of them left. They won't do this again.

Let's get real and, just for a change, try to make some posts here that have at least some connection with reality.

The massacre of the Nepalese Royal Family had nothing to do with the Maoists (unless Crown Prince Dipendra was a closet Maoist!) and King Gyanendra was opposed by all five of the main political parties, with popular protests and a general strike involving, literally, millions of people. Far from an "uprising of the Nepal people and backfired on them. Most of them left. They won't do this again", the Unified Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist) became the ruling party after the general election (Nepalese Constituent Assembly election) in 2008, leading a coalition government with 229 of the 601 seats.

"white collar corruption" did not suddenly appear "during the Thaksin years", nor has it "been cut off" by the present government, where it is evidently alive and well. The problem with the current situation is that the vast majority of politicians on all sides still "lie, lie, lie and deny. It is second nature to them to lie" just as they always have; most leaders on all sides are "cronic liers. They want their freedom of crime back. They want complete control of the country". Nothing has changed and until there are leaders who are strong enough to deny political office at any level to those people nothing will.

Edited May 1, 2010 by JohnLeech

[hammered]

Tweet: The Supreme Patriarch is to be moved fr Chula hospital to Siriraj following the concerns of HRH Princess Sirindhorn:@nnanews

[rixalex]

Everyone agrees that the 2006 Coup was wrong, but everyone should know that its just getting a big PR gain for the Reds.

I don't

I don't agree either. The coup was the most peaceful one in Thai history. The army were welcomed by the people. The situation prior to the coup had become intolerable and unfortunately the coup was the only way forward. Maybe all the red Thaksin supporters agree, but that doesn't include everyone.

I think the coup was wrong but don't think it would have happened had Thaksin been running the country responsibly and lawfully. It was Thaksin's actions that brought the coup about and he is to blame for it and the mess that has followed.

[Mosha]

I know she would have been protected, but I think that visit showed guts.

[JohnLeech]

Everyone agrees that the 2006 Coup was wrong, but everyone should know that its just getting a big PR gain for the Reds.

I don't

I don't agree either. The coup was the most peaceful one in Thai history. The army were welcomed by the people. The situation prior to the coup had become intolerable and unfortunately the coup was the only way forward. Maybe all the red Thaksin supporters agree, but that doesn't include everyone.

I don't agree either, except in principle, as although I don't think that miltary coups are the long term answer it was probably the best answer then and it could be the best answer now.

[jdinasia]

Tweet: The Supreme Patriarch is to be moved fr Chula hospital to Siriraj following the concerns of HRH Princess Sirindhorn:@nnanews

OUCH!

That one will be felt like a kick to the 'eggs"!

[kurtgruen]

A red leader negotiated that 5 reds would search the hospital. 100-200 reds (carrying spears) searched the hospital.

One red leader apologised. Others said it was justified.

One red leader organised the removal of barricades. Another leader ordered it replaced.

The red leaders can't even agree. With Sae Daeng in charge down there, how does anyone know what the protestors are going to do next?

Hmmm....sure makes one wonder, if Thaksin really is still alive? When was the last time, anyone has seen live footage of him? If he was dead, this whole Red thing, would fizzle out and disappear really quick. Without their figure head, there will be nothing, to hold them together and to hold the crowds together.

After all, it's Thaksin (and his money), that keeps most of them there right now. It's hard enough to make a live capitalist criminal the hero of the poor. Wonder how they would see him, if he was dead?

The Reds are quickly running out of options. Today is May Day (May 1st). If he really had the support of the working people, the place would be packed today. One would imagine hundreds of thousands of workers demonstrating, together with their multi-colored comrades. Thaksin's little mafia, tried to paint the picture red and they have failed. Not enough gullable people out there, to fall for it.

Public opinion, is quickly turning against them now and they are scrambling, trying to do damage control. Their propaganda machine, has pretty much been shut down, quite effectively. Meanwhile, the Government and Anti-Thaksin media, such as ASTV, are gaining the ear of the people, more and more every day.

The Government doesn't need to make a move. They can wait, until the Reds do something else stupid. They just need to be there with their cameras.

I have the feeling, that Thaksin is more or less out of the picture. He is the only one, who can keep the crowds, there. I'm sure, that if he was able to, he would be adressing them live, at least once or twice a day.

Ohhhh...what's that?....I think I can hear the fat lady sing.

I'm surprised, nobody has mentioned anything, about Thailand's 93 year old, Supreme Patriarch, laying in the hospital right next to these Red demonstrators, making all that noise, day and night? Why would "good" Buddhists, invade the very place, where one of their highest living spiritual leaders is being treated?

[jdinasia]

Today is exactly one month AFTER Arsaman said he would turn himself into the police. He has been quiet of late, is he still around?

[frodo]

Today is exactly one month AFTER Arsaman said he would turn himself into the police. He has been quiet of late, is he still around?

He was on stage today demanding that the "protesters" be protected from harm. Nevermind the disruption and extreme inconvenience caused by his thugs onto hospital patients. Come to think of it, he has made no apology for his cult followers actions. Shows where his heart really is.

[JohnLeech]

Hmmm....sure makes one wonder, if Thaksin really is still alive? When was the last time, anyone has seen live footage of him? If he was dead, this whole Red thing, would fizzle out and disappear really quick. Without their figure head, there will be nothing, to hold them together and to hold the crowds together.

After all, it's Thaksin (and his money), that keeps most of them there right now. It's hard enough to make a live capitalist criminal the hero of the poor. Wonder how they would see him, if he was dead?

I couldn't disagree more strongly. The best thing that could happen to "the reds", politically and practically, would be for Thaksin to die, preferably as the result of a messy assassination. His sins, real and imagined, would be forgotten/forgiven and he would become a martyr for the "red" cause, linking them together far more effectively than he could ever hope to do when alive, and removing the biggest stick the "yellows" have to use to beat the "reds".

I also disagree (although it has become a rather boring reprise) that all that is keeping "most of them there right now" is Thaksin's money. This may have been the case in the main before, just as it was with the PAD, but I doubt if it is the case now and it is, in any case, a debate supported, on both sides, more by opinion and bias than by fact.

[Robby nz]

I believe The Supreme Patriarch has already been moved

Watched a bit of Thai TV earlier and nothing much seems to be happening except the usual motormouth MrA doing his thing and Sae Deang throwing his weight around and fighting with one of the ordinary people, like the ones they are supposed to represent.

Still it is Saturday and there may be more opportunities tomorrow, could be a Christian church somewhere to have a go at or possibly terrorise the kids visiting the zoo.

We have eye witness accounts of bottles being filled with presumably petrol behind the barracade if they went up where would that leave the hospital? they have done the right thing getting the patients out of a dangerous situation.

[danc]

A free press would ask "Was it necesary to evacuate?" The hospital search was an absolute disgrace, but is evacuating a hospital for PR gains any better?

How could you possibily know it was for PR gain unless you were a doctor at the hospital? You couldn't and you are not. You are desperately looking for a way to spin this whole mess around and apportion blame away from the culprits.

I too condemn the actions of the reds on thurs night but also being a cynical so and so believe it was just what the govt were waiting for. A big slip up by the reds which they could turn to their advantage. It was pretty obvious by fri morning that the reds were not going back into the hospital. Then to wheel very sick people/kids out for a photo opportunity smacks of desperate measures from abhisit and his cronies to gain back some ground!

Both sides are using people as pawns in an increasingly protracted game of chess

I tend to agree with this point - the hospital scenario was not good, not good any which way you look at it..but..and people will disagree vehemently , I do not totally absolve the government of blame in this.

I would argue, that for some time now (days, couple of weeks), the government's approach has been "let them hoist themselves with their own petard" They have ramped up the pressure with "will they, won't they dispersal", they have hemmed them in more and more, cut off mobile rallies, used the controlled press and TV to highlight every arrest, every lead, every nefarious internecine plot with the 'noble" aim of getting them (The Reds) to crack. It is a game that has its merits in that it does not use force per se, just the show of it satisfies its purpose. Yet, I would argue that the hospital incident is one of its pitfalls. It does make the Reds look like the devil incarnate and the aim is therefore achieved but, like the policeman who died two days ago when making the point that mobile rallies would not be allowed, it does mean that innocent people are affected in order that the government achieves these aims. There is, as it were, collateral damage when you push a bunch of "ner'do wells" , if that is indeed what they are, further and further against the wall in the hope that they will self-implode.

There is an equal chance in this approach that a good percentage of people will argue how has it come to this, why did the government not nip it in the bud at the beginning and so forth. Posters on the forum tend to use their Thai wives as the arbiters and experts on all things but not having one of those, I will use my friend, 60's, American, married locally, she and him both Abhisit supporters. He is fully up to speed on the hospital incident, its aftermath, the pictures and so forth. When I asked his opinion, I was surprised that his reaction was one of utter indifference. His explanation as to why..it is all just so sordid now, the Reds for doing such a thing, the police for letting them do it, the government for stooping to such depths that they see it as a win for the home side when they have allowed it to come to this and many other reasons beside including Thaksin, the PAD, the Army and the unmentionable - not so much something in rotten in the State of Denmark but the whole state is rotten to the core and nobody anymore can come out of this crisis in a positive light.

To end, I appreciate the indignation that posters here feel but I will put my head above the parapet and say that the indignation is sufficient. The self-congratulatory tone that has frequently accompanied the indignation is unnecessary and in itself a little distasteful and does not necessarily help the cause which you espouse.

This is my opinion only and should in now be construed as fact!

[JohnLeech]

Today is exactly one month AFTER Arsaman said he would turn himself into the police. He has been quiet of late, is he still around?

He was on stage today demanding that the "protesters" be protected from harm. Nevermind the disruption and extreme inconvenience caused by his thugs onto hospital patients. Come to think of it, he has made no apology for his cult followers actions. Shows where his heart really is.

I though he said clearly that he would "turn himself into the police" in mid-May.

"Come to think of it" I don't recall any apology from Kasit or Chamlong for their "cult followers actions" either, or much in the way of action against them for "the disruption and extreme inconvenience caused by (their) thugs". "Shows where (their) hearts really are".

I am not saying that the sins of the past justify the sins of today, just that some people have pretty short memories.

(and danc, for what its worth I agree 100% with your friend and his wife, as do many Thais I know who are simply sick of the entire crew).

Edited May 1, 2010 by JohnLeech

[TheOldWolf]

Today is exactly one month AFTER Arsaman said he would turn himself into the police. He has been quiet of late, is he still around?

He was on stage today demanding that the "protesters" be protected from harm. Nevermind the disruption and extreme inconvenience caused by his thugs onto hospital patients. Come to think of it, he has made no apology for his cult followers actions. Shows where his heart really is.

I though he said clearly that he would "turn himself into the police" in mid-May.

"Come to think of it" I don't recall any apology from Kasit or Chamlong for their "cult followers actions" either, or much in the way of action against them for "the disruption and extreme inconvenience caused by (their) thugs". "Shows where (their) hearts really are".

I am not saying that the sins of the past justify the sins of today, just that some people have pretty short memories.

Arsaman cleary stated that he would turn himself to the police 1 april. He got his warrent firs week of the rally.

What hospital was raided that Chamlong should apology for? What come close to anyhing the reds are doing now? And if you not justify the sins of today, why bring old thing up?

[Mitker]

Public opinion, is quickly turning against them now and they are scrambling, trying to do damage control. Their propaganda machine, has pretty much been shut down, quite effectively. Meanwhile, the Government and Anti-Thaksin media, such as ASTV, are gaining the ear of the people, more and more every day.

It's indeed impressive to see how red shirts apologists have vanished among these posts compared with a couple of weeks ago.

A few die-hard still try to justify acts that are condemned even under international war conventions (think I saw here a couple of these daring to ask what was wrong about armed tugs storming a hospital..)

Obviously, their positions are getting harder and harder to defend but be ready for some more nonsense statements. Consistency is one thing, propaganda is another.

[whybother]

A free press would ask "Was it necesary to evacuate?" The hospital search was an absolute disgrace, but is evacuating a hospital for PR gains any better?

How could you possibily know it was for PR gain unless you were a doctor at the hospital? You couldn't and you are not. You are desperately looking for a way to spin this whole mess around and apportion blame away from the culprits.

I too condemn the actions of the reds on thurs night but also being a cynical so and so believe it was just what the govt were waiting for. A big slip up by the reds which they could turn to their advantage. It was pretty obvious by fri morning that the reds were not going back into the hospital. Then to wheel very sick people/kids out for a photo opportunity smacks of desperate measures from abhisit and his cronies to gain back some ground!

Both sides are using people as pawns in an increasingly protracted game of chess

I tend to agree with this point - the hospital scenario was not good, not good any which way you look at it..but..and people will disagree vehemently , I do not totally absolve the government of blame in this.

I would argue, that for some time now (days, couple of weeks), the government's approach has been "let them hoist themselves with their own petard" They have ramped up the pressure with "will they, won't they dispersal", they have hemmed them in more and more, cut off mobile rallies, used the controlled press and TV to highlight every arrest, every lead, every nefarious internecine plot with the 'noble" aim of getting them (The Reds) to crack. It is a game that has its merits in that it does not use force per se, just the show of it satisfies its purpose. Yet, I would argue that the hospital incident is one of its pitfalls. It does make the Reds look like the devil incarnate and the aim is therefore achieved but, like the policeman who died two days ago when making the point that mobile rallies would not be allowed, it does mean that innocent people are affected in order that the government achieves these aims. There is, as it were, collateral damage when you push a bunch of "ner'do wells" , if that is indeed what they are, further and further against the wall in the hope that they will self-implode.

There is an equal chance in this approach that a good percentage of people will argue how has it come to this, why did the government not nip it in the bud at the beginning and so forth. Posters on the forum tend to use their Thai wives as the arbiters and experts on all things but not having one of those, I will use my friend, 60's, American, married locally, she and him both Abhisit supporters. He is fully up to speed on the hospital incident, its aftermath, the pictures and so forth. When I asked his opinion, I was surprised that his reaction was one of utter indifference. His explanation as to why..it is all just so sordid now, the Reds for doing such a thing, the police for letting them do it, the government for stooping to such depths that they see it as a win for the home side when they have allowed it to come to this and many other reasons beside including Thaksin, the PAD, the Army and the unmentionable - not so much something in rotten in the State of Denmark but the whole state is rotten to the core and nobody anymore can come out of this crisis in a positive light.

To end, I appreciate the indignation that posters here feel but I will put my head above the parapet and say that the indignation is sufficient. The self-congratulatory tone that has frequently accompanied the indignation is unnecessary and in itself a little distasteful and does not necessarily help the cause which you espouse.

This is my opinion only and should in now be construed as fact!

So you are (partly) blaming the government, because they didn't let the reds continue open slather with their mobile protests?

It has been the reds that have been talking about the "will they, won't they dispersal".

It has been the reds spurting the violent rhetoric on their stage.

It has been the reds with the seige mentality.

It has been the reds that have been consistently pushing the army and the government.

It is only the reds paranoia that is to blame for the hospital fiasco.

And paranoid they should be.

[frodo]

Today is exactly one month AFTER Arsaman said he would turn himself into the police. He has been quiet of late, is he still around?

He was on stage today demanding that the "protesters" be protected from harm. Nevermind the disruption and extreme inconvenience caused by his thugs onto hospital patients. Come to think of it, he has made no apology for his cult followers actions. Shows where his heart really is.

I though he said clearly that he would "turn himself into the police" in mid-May.

"Come to think of it" I don't recall any apology from Kasit or Chamlong for their "cult followers actions" either, or much in the way of action against them for "the disruption and extreme inconvenience caused by (their) thugs". "Shows where (their) hearts really are".

I am not saying that the sins of the past justify the sins of today, just that some people have pretty short memories.

(and danc, for what its worth I agree 100% with your friend and his wife, as do many Thais I know who are simply sick of the entire crew).

Nice try. There is a huge difference between the AOT shutting down an airport and 100-200 thugs rampaging through a hospital with sharpened spears. Perhaps you can't see that difference?

If my memory serves me correctly, nobody at the airport threatened to burn down Bangkok with petrol bombs or other terrorist activities.

Yes, Arisiman did state he would turn himself in on April 1st, but being the coward he is, proved himself to be a liar again.

Edited May 1, 2010 by frodo

[lazurus]

THE NATION: The Supreme Patriarch is to be moved fr Chula hospital to Siriraj following the concerns of HRH Princess Sirindhorn:@nnanews

no comment necessary

[jdinasia]

Today is exactly one month AFTER Arsaman said he would turn himself into the police. He has been quiet of late, is he still around?

He was on stage today demanding that the "protesters" be protected from harm. Nevermind the disruption and extreme inconvenience caused by his thugs onto hospital patients. Come to think of it, he has made no apology for his cult followers actions. Shows where his heart really is.

I though he said clearly that he would "turn himself into the police" in mid-May.

"Come to think of it" I don't recall any apology from Kasit or Chamlong for their "cult followers actions" either, or much in the way of action against them for "the disruption and extreme inconvenience caused by (their) thugs". "Shows where (their) hearts really are".

I am not saying that the sins of the past justify the sins of today, just that some people have pretty short memories.

(and danc, for what its worth I agree 100% with your friend and his wife, as do many Thais I know who are simply sick of the entire crew).

Some people have pretty short memories? Yes, in fact, they do. Arisaman was served with an arrest warrant on the red stage at Pan Fa bridge a long time ago. (He is in violation of his bail from his attacks in April 2009). He refused to go with the police and stated publicly he would turn himself in on April 1st.

So ... Yes ... some people have very short memories.

BTW --- when served with arrest warrants those people that you claim did not apologize (excluding Kasit who was NOT a core leader of the then PAD) turned themselves in almost immediately. They did NOT walk right out of the court the same day. They did in fact apologize for the airport fiasco --- the apology was not apparently accepted --- and I blame nobody for that!

[OhDear]

And didn't the red leaders give a date, that is approaching, that they will turn themselves in to police?

Only a fool (or a horse on the blinkers) will believe what they say.

When the day comes, they probably will say something like.... since the govt haven't dissolve the House, they still have the duty to perform. These people who fight for the democracy still need them [the leaders] to lead this rally. Turning themselves in is no longer an option.