Millions Of Thais Lack Welfare Coverage

[MGiacomoCM]

Who owns 5 rai land is not poor, they have a place to live and food (might be rice from their ricefield only)

Compared to Abhisit they are poor All I'm saying is that with policies like that you can't expect Issan people to support anyone else but the Reds. Why not put more tax on cars instead? People who can buy a BMW or Benz here surely could afford to pay a few thousands Baht Tax more every month. But that would hit the Bangkokians right were it hurts wouldn't it?

[slapout]

The sabotage factor within the government, mentioned in post #59 may be more prevalent than anyone wants to consider. The deals made to prevent those who try to help the people, right past wrongs, etc may not be mentioned in public, but some private VDO is spread around (one case locally), a compromising photo, VDO, document is reported to be held (even through individuals know it is altered) but the end results are readily apparent. The depths of dishonesty which do become public are probably like the drug mules who are ratted out so the primary goods move unhindered.

[MGiacomoCM]

Your Issan family and friends might have to switch the tv channel from soap opera to the news. In addition there are educational programs on tv.

\

Are you saying it's all their own fault? Most of the people I'm talking about never had the chance to a good education like you or me, they are not just lazy. But I see where you're coming from. You would like them just to shut up and be happy with what they have, right? Just as someone else said "when they have food and shelter, they are not poor". While the elite ranks in the big money in Bangkok, the farmers should stop complaining, eat their homegrown rice and watch educational TV instead of dreaming about sending their kids to university...

And BTW: It is exactly those news that make people angry, as they report nothing else but Abhisit's POV. Why watch the governtment tell you over and over, you are just fine when in fact you aren't?

[hammered]

Who owns 5 rai land is not poor, they have a place to live and food (might be rice from their ricefield only)

Compared to Abhisit they are poor All I'm saying is that with policies like that you can't expect Issan people to support anyone else but the Reds. Why not put more tax on cars instead? People who can buy a BMW or Benz here surely could afford to pay a few thousands Baht Tax more every month. But that would hit the Bangkokians right were it hurts wouldn't it?

The ones that bneed hitting are the provincial barons but they run redland and PTP and tell farmers that the government wioll tax them when actually the tax hits the barons with thousands of rai of unused land but of course people believe the rice miller who wont buy their rice if they are nasty to him or the money lender who may shoot his cousin who has not repaid etc etc The big problem is lcoal facist control rather than central government who if not represented in the area would love to cary out policies which would change the balance of power by advantaging the local poor which is what is so screwy about all this. The rural PTP/red barons must ensure education remains low and that rice subsidies go to millers not farmers and that nobody checks what local PAO/TAO budgets are used for and that everyone thinks a tax aimed at rich exploiters will hit farmers and that nothing really changes and havinbg everyone hate BKK is an easy way to do it. And even better when you say BKK never sends any mor money hey that means when they do, and they have over the past few years, because you contol all local admin you as a provincial feudal baron can take the whole lot and then say hey BKK never sent anything because they hate you and then you can show what a great guy you are by dishing out 1% of what was sent as though it were your own largesse. And this is the way it was and this is the way it is and this is the way it will be

Thius isnt like some western democracy where the local MPs etc are answerable to the people. The local MPs are dudes put up by the local powerful ones and nobody is realisticaslly going to stand against them. The same peolel who lend the money, mill the rice etc etc have been running the same areas for decades in one party or another. The sitting MP changes parties. The people dont change who they vote for. They have no choice. When yopu are that poor you dont bite the hand that is the only thing that can help you and that is why PTP/red will change nothing that matters but there will likely be a few extra handouts that change nothing

[lannarebirth]

Who owns 5 rai land is not poor, they have a place to live and food (might be rice from their ricefield only)

Compared to Abhisit they are poor All I'm saying is that with policies like that you can't expect Issan people to support anyone else but the Reds. Why not put more tax on cars instead? People who can buy a BMW or Benz here surely could afford to pay a few thousands Baht Tax more every month. But that would hit the Bangkokians right were it hurts wouldn't it?

The ones that bneed hitting are the provincial barons but they run redland and PTP and tell farmers that the government wioll tax them when actually the tax hits the barons with thousands of rai of unused land but of course people believe the rice miller who wont buy their rice if they are nasty to him or the money lender who may shoot his cousin who has not repaid etc etc The big problem is lcoal facist control rather than central government who if not represented in the area would love to cary out policies which would change the balance of power by advantaging the local poor which is what is so screwy about all this. The rural PTP/red barons must ensure education remains low and that rice subsidies go to millers not farmers and that nobody checks what local PAO/TAO budgets are used for and that everyone thinks a tax aimed at rich exploiters will hit farmers and that nothing really changes and havinbg everyone hate BKK is an easy way to do it. And even better when you say BKK never sends any mor money hey that means when they do, and they have over the past few years, because you contol all local admin you as a provincial feudal baron can take the whole lot and then say hey BKK never sent anything because they hate you and then you can show what a great guy you are by dishing out 1% of what was sent as though it were your own largesse. And this is the way it was and this is the way it is and this is the way it will be

Thius isnt like some western democracy where the local MPs etc are answerable to the people. The local MPs are dudes put up by the local powerful ones and nobody is realisticaslly going to stand against them. The same peolel who lend the money, mill the rice etc etc have been running the same areas for decades in one party or another. The sitting MP changes parties. The people dont change who they vote for. They have no choice. When yopu are that poor you dont bite the hand that is the only thing that can help you and that is why PTP/red will change nothing that matters but there will likely be a few extra handouts that change nothing

Spot on, it should be pinned till everyone understands what this is really all about. You'd think they'd have wised up by now when the hospitals in their districts look like bomb shelters and the Or Bor Tor's office looks like a palace.

[tonywebster]

The earlier poster who wanted to know what his social security health entitlement covers can look here.

http://www.sso.go.th/english/faq.php?menu_...;content_id=350

Also look at some of the old threads in the insurance sub-forum.

This scheme is not as limited as another poster suggested, though in an ideal world a westerner would probably want private HI coverage as well. It is definitely worth keeping up the contributions as the SSS will cover you after age 65 even with pre-existing conditions (at which stage your private insurer is likely to show you the door). The other two Thai public scheme - the UC scheme and the Civil Servants Medical Benefit Scheme are not normally open to Westerners.

At present every amphur has a public district hospital, albeit of variable quality, and below that there is a network of local health centres. A lot of the current debate concerns what to do at the tambon and sub-tambon levels. After the 30 baht reforms in 2001, the first plan was to beef up the health centres with more qualified staff and form Primary Care Units (PCUs) from clusters of health centres. This was linked to the idea of 'glai baan, glai jai' ('close to the home, close to the heart') health care. This didn't work well because of staff shortages and problems in getting the money to flow through the district hospitals (the CUPs) to the health centres, and so other arrangements involving local medical units and sub-tambon health promotion hospitals are being tried in some areas. Some areas also have community health funds, with part of the funding for health promotion coming through local government. So the plan for the new vocational hospitals is another (experimental?) piece in the jigsaw rather than a new direction for the system.

Thanks for that link

[MGiacomoCM]

The ones that bneed hitting are the provincial barons but they run redland and PTP and tell farmers that the government wioll tax them when actually the tax hits the barons with thousands of rai of unused land but of course people believe the rice miller who wont buy their rice if they are nasty to him or the money lender who may shoot his cousin who has not repaid etc etc The big problem is lcoal facist control rather than central government who if not represented in the area would love to cary out policies which would change the balance of power by advantaging the local poor which is what is so screwy about all this. The rural PTP/red barons must ensure education remains low and that rice subsidies go to millers not farmers and that nobody checks what local PAO/TAO budgets are used for and that everyone thinks a tax aimed at rich exploiters will hit farmers and that nothing really changes and havinbg everyone hate BKK is an easy way to do it. And even better when you say BKK never sends any mor money hey that means when they do, and they have over the past few years, because you contol all local admin you as a provincial feudal baron can take the whole lot and then say hey BKK never sent anything because they hate you and then you can show what a great guy you are by dishing out 1% of what was sent as though it were your own largesse. And this is the way it was and this is the way it is and this is the way it will be

Thius isnt like some western democracy where the local MPs etc are answerable to the people. The local MPs are dudes put up by the local powerful ones and nobody is realisticaslly going to stand against them. The same peolel who lend the money, mill the rice etc etc have been running the same areas for decades in one party or another. The sitting MP changes parties. The people dont change who they vote for. They have no choice. When yopu are that poor you dont bite the hand that is the only thing that can help you and that is why PTP/red will change nothing that matters but there will likely be a few extra handouts that change nothing

That's partly true of course. But then I ask you, why does Abhisit self-indulgently sit back and tell people about free education? Shouldn't he know of all the corruption preventing it to get through to the bottom? I'm sure he does. But he also doesn't care. Because the Yellows don't want change anymore than the Reds. They are both just in it for themselves. I'm not a Red supporter even if it sometimes seems so, but I try to understand the POV of my family. The poor got screwed over by both sides numerous times, but now they don't even have a say in who screwes them over. To me it seems sometimes like the situation in my homecountry (Italy). Our prime minister has corruption charges and alleged mafia connections piling up against him for years. When aksed why they still vote for him, many people reply: 'He may be a gangster, but at least he's our gangster.' The Anti-Thaksin propaganda of the government drive people even more in the corner of the Reds, even though everyone knows he wasn't any better.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Since this thread is about social security and before it descends into the usual red vs yellow nonsense I will ask a question.

I pay tax here and social security, I received a card that allows me to go to hospital, my staff tell me that at the hospital I will treated without paying any extra, somehow this does not sound correct to me, can anyone shed light on what is and what is not covered, or steer me to a page that explains this?

Thanks

An Issan story from my direct entourage;

The Father from the Family (Nong Khai village nearby Siwilai) is directed to Khon Khaeng regional hospital for investigation and treatment: there, they diagnostic a lung cancer (He is a medium smoker), told him "treatment is too much expansive', we cannot do anything for you, go home".

The family has sold the pick up in order to buy drugs for smoothing the end life of the father and also spend the money in searching a solution through parallel medicare.....

Sorry to hear that. But your relative should be registered; they should be able to give him the treatment at his local hospital. Places like the Chula hospital would have been a good way to go to, hope you’ll find a way to keep him alive.

He is not my relative. however, I know him well; he is registered and had pay nothing, But Khon Khaen hospital (good reputation) about which he depends told him they will not spend money on his case....Seems not the only case in the region.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Policy issues like this are only going to be solved when a government isnt distracted by other concerns. To be fair it is opne of the few achievements of the current government that it has actually enacted more policies than all governments put together since 2005 which gives an idea of the silly gamesmanship going on. Right now there are all kinds of bits of legislation that havent been passed in which th elegal time frame for them to be passed has expired. In terms of legislation there is a huge backlog and mess and a lot of it relates to issues that directly involve a few hundred thousand peopel here and there. A right mess.

A whole slew of legislation tied to 6 month time frames was completley ignored by the first government after the most recent election and the timne frame on all of those pieces expired in the course of that government without a single one being discussed. Things like this arent brought up in the hate filled simple soundbite world of the current power struggle but they affect a lot of people when you add them all up.

But everybody is rushing to pass the budget bill, because there.... is the money for the Politicians and the next election....All the rhetorics are only "Powder for eyes"... So let discuss seriously, BUDGET what is in your Budget?

Im not commenting on budget. I am talking about a massive backlog in legislation which is a totally different issure

Be aware of a typical politician trick, a law is passed, but neither the application decree neither the budget to apply it.... Your law is just a piece of paper you can use in your bath room....

That is a reason why a Law must be accompanied by a Budget. If not it is a Pi in a violin.

[citizen33]

My situation is not the same as yours, but has some similarities, so perhaps it is not off topic.

I'm on a retirement extension, not working or paying into the system. As soon as I got my yellow Tambien Baan book (states that I am listed as a resident in a particular house), I was given access to the government hospitals - under the same plan as the Thai members of the community.

The 30-baht plan has been reduced to the 0-baht plan for simple emergency or hospital clinic functions. Dentistry costs are greatly reduced: I had two extractions and a 4-tooth plate made for 1,600 baht. I see a few specialists; one I see each month for between one and one-and-a-half hours; this costs me 50 baht.

My town has a PCU and a small hospital, which is more like a large clinic with some limited surgical features. But I go into the next province for treatment whenever practicable, and pay the same (or no) rates. There I'm seen at a teaching hospital, by professors from the University - at less than 10% of what I would be charged for their services at the private hospital. (...)

So in a word, yes, the medical schemes are available to foreigners under certain conditions. Yours appears to be one of them.

This is very interesting. Can Noahvail please tell us if he managed to get a gold card (UC scheme which developed from 30 baht project) on the basis of his house registration document? This would be different from the situation of the other poster who is covered by the SSS. Incidentally, contrary to what somebody said, the SSS normally lets you choose your hospital from a short list which usually does have a private hospital option. The other two Thai public schemes are limited to public hospitals.

Edited May 2, 2010 by citizen33

[fullcave]

Changing potential is a tough nut to crack and one that many experts call a fool's notion.

The Elites as they are called here, can easily afford to double the minimum wage across the board. these people are rediculously wealthy. There will be fall-out but there always is. Something easy to do and will have far reaching results. The uneducable need more resources and they have no other legitimate way to get them. Keeping them in school longer serves only to drag the more capable down with them.

This single policy could affect more people, more quickly that just about any other, including education. Minimum wages raised say 25%/yr for the next 4 years would be a great thing for Thailand and clear out a lot more people loafing around unproductive farms. Kick the taxi rates up at the same rate too.

Your rant is complete drivel. I sincerely hope you didn't spend too much energy writing this nonsense...

[Jerrytheyoung]

If government officials were not so corrupt and the our hard earned tax monies went where they should have gone, then we would not have half the problems we have now.

I'm sick and tired of being responsible for things the government should be responsible for. I do what I can by paying my taxes and serving my community.... these fat, pork barrel spending, lazy, good for nothing, corrupt politicians should all be thrown in jail - the whole lot of them.

That is why half the country does not get the safety net they deserve, without turning China into a Communist state.

I suppose in most of Administrations, the Democrats have promoted their supporters into the good positions, those where the contracts are under control in order to direct the gold mine to friends before the elections.....

One thing about Thai administration, basic pawns are generally very honest. It is at upper level where we have a crowd of "representatives' in a multitude of Committees.

All this because the salaries of executives are too low: so fiddlings through allowances (presence in Committees) for getting a better salary,.....The result is an inextricable network of Committees (officially anti-corruption): only some "specialists" are able to navigate through....

Edited May 2, 2010 by Jerrytheyoung

[tomyummer]

Your Issan family and friends might have to switch the tv channel from soap opera to the news. In addition there are educational programs on tv.

\

Are you saying it's all their own fault? Most of the people I'm talking about never had the chance to a good education like you or me, they are not just lazy. But I see where you're coming from. You would like them just to shut up and be happy with what they have, right? Just as someone else said "when they have food and shelter, they are not poor". While the elite ranks in the big money in Bangkok, the farmers should stop complaining, eat their homegrown rice and watch educational TV instead of dreaming about sending their kids to university...

And BTW: It is exactly those news that make people angry, as they report nothing else but Abhisit's POV. Why watch the governtment tell you over and over, you are just fine when in fact you aren't?

TV sucks in this country. Both the darn soap operas (Thais should learn how to act) and crooked news influence this society too much on the wrong side. The source of the matter is that this country is out of money and is in desperate need of a real leader with ideas that have staying power. No government programs have worked and the longevity of executed programs fall way short. I would hope that Abhisit could do it, but nobody is giving him a chance. Too bad.

With all the tea money being handed out on government contracts, it's a wonder the coffers didn't dry up years ago. Could you imagine if the extra 'commission' of 30% was kept for the citizens of the country on each contract? Does anyone wonder why roads are constantly being re-paved annually? The government agencies keep the quality of work low so that the jobs need to be repeated more frequently. 30% over and over again. It's no wonder that younger generations aspire to go into government. They're the wealthiest workers in this country!

I think that the farmers should stage a rice protest then see what the politicians will do. These countryside farmers are the most important people especially in this day of shortages from energy to food.

As politicians get richer project to project, the rural population loses out the most. When will it end? In Thailand, probably never.

[deadsnoopy]

Abhisit has just allocated 249 million Baht to police in order to better deal with the red shirts. They really earned it, in my opinion, for their efforts so far. That should buy a few Mercedes Benz or BMW motorbikes for those most in need.

[tomyummer]

Abhisit has just allocated 249 million Baht to police in order to better deal with the red shirts. They really earned it, in my opinion, for their efforts so far. That should buy a few Mercedes Benz or BMW motorbikes for those most in need.

With anything extra they can hire the Men in Black to do their work instead. Or Sae Dang's gang.

[noahvail]

This is very interesting. Can Noahvail please tell us if he managed to get a gold card (UC scheme which developed from 30 baht project) on the basis of his house registration document? This would be different from the situation of the other poster who is covered by the SSS. Incidentally, contrary to what somebody said, the SSS normally lets you choose your hospital from a short list which usually does have a private hospital option. The other two Thai public schemes are limited to public hospitals.

Agreed, this is a different situation, which I stated in my original post, and hoped it was not off topic.

I was quite surprised to learn of it myself! I don't have a gold card, no. At the two public hospitals I've used, a copy of the first page of the Tambien Baan, passport, and visa extension was all that was asked for, and now I'm in their system, and they can find my number by accessing my name. Getting appointments is a simple process; but they might put 20 people into the same appointment time for a morning, so as another poster stated, getting there early is desirable.

My understanding is that this only applies to government hospitals, in my case. I have no first-hand experience with anything major, so I can't speak as to whether I would pay the same for a surgical operation as a Thai citizen.

I will state that I used two different private hospitals when I first arrived here. The care was no more than adequate, and the prices were outrageous. I'm not insurable, so everything is out-of-pocket expense for me. My wife convinced me to try the public hospitals, and I was pleasantly surprised at the level of care, and frankly concern, that the staff showed.

My wife is pretty clued in to the system. Without her I probably would never have become aware of this part of the medical program. She spent some 6 years running an NGO foundation tying in disabled people, mostly from the small villages, into the appropriate programs that would assist them for free, or for the most nominal amount.

And that's about as much as I know

[silk]

Your Issan family and friends might have to switch the tv channel from soap opera to the news. In addition there are educational programs on tv.

\

Are you saying it's all their own fault? Most of the people I'm talking about never had the chance to a good education like you or me, they are not just lazy. But I see where you're coming from. You would like them just to shut up and be happy with what they have, right? Just as someone else said "when they have food and shelter, they are not poor". While the elite ranks in the big money in Bangkok, the farmers should stop complaining, eat their homegrown rice and watch educational TV instead of dreaming about sending their kids to university...

And BTW: It is exactly those news that make people angry, as they report nothing else but Abhisit's POV. Why watch the governtment tell you over and over, you are just fine when in fact you aren't?

I did not say anything of what you might read in my quote. I mentioned the reason why this could have happened and nothing more. Stay calm.

[citizen33]

I was quite surprised to learn of it myself! I don't have a gold card, no. At the two public hospitals I've used, a copy of the first page of the Tambien Baan, passport, and visa extension was all that was asked for, and now I'm in their system, and they can find my number by accessing my name. (...)

And that's about as much as I know

I was interested in this because your post suggests that uninsurable expats might be able to get low-cost healthcare on the fringes of the Thai public system. The really intriguing possibility would be that the local health network (the CUP) registered you for the UC scheme on the basis of the housing registration document. This is the document that a Thai citizen needs to get registered but I'd been told this wasn't possible for foreigners, though I think there has been a recent move to cover refugees. The other explanation is that you are simply getting private, pay out-of-pocket treatment in public hospitals/PCUs at very reasonable prices. If you (or your wife) ever get the chance to clarify what your registration number refers to, I'm sure many on the forum would find the information very useful.

[silk]

Who owns 5 rai land is not poor, they have a place to live and food (might be rice from their ricefield only)

Compared to Abhisit they are poor All I'm saying is that with policies like that you can't expect Issan people to support anyone else but the Reds. Why not put more tax on cars instead? People who can buy a BMW or Benz here surely could afford to pay a few thousands Baht Tax more every month. But that would hit the Bangkokians right were it hurts wouldn't it?

Sorry, I did not know that you compare them to Abisith

[Spee]

Nothing exactly new. Why do you think if you're born into an Issan family, you're also basically your parents pension plan?

the democrats are also instituting state pensions and free education for all.

And of course we have seen how well state run pension and education systems have ended in the rest of the civilized world .... insolvent and in the crapper.

These politicians are doing what politicians always do around the world. Address relatively insignificant problems, make a big huge deal out of it, and then mismanage it into a flaming disaster with all kinds of unintended consequences.

Edited May 2, 2010 by Spee

[elcent]

until now, all the money spent by the gov serves only the corrupt system and gang leaders within the gov and extended arms in the villages. We're talking about billions a time which gets channeled to the wrong pockets.

A friend of mine was working for a certain gov department and couldn't stand it any longer. Staff there were forced to change/falsify documents and reports or lose the job. Fortunately my friend found another department to work, which is less corrupted.

About 50% of the budgets assigned for certain projects lands in the hands of these criminals. With the rest of the remaining 50% the contractors are still forced to pay 10 - 20% feedback (almost daily restaurants visits, club visits, massage parlor visits and cash handouts for those involved). Why do you think that everybody is so keen to get a gov seat? Can someone tell me of what's left for the workforce?

This why I urge for a real worker Union, which works external, outside the gov with a controlling function. Things would change quickly.

The WTC would be an ideal to set up a Union HQ with all the branches without any involvement of the gov. The only thing it(gov) could do is to buy the WTC for them and let people elect their staff. After all, the WTC was built on local and international prostitution ring rackets and money laundering.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Nothing exactly new. Why do you think if you're born into an Issan family, you're also basically your parents pension plan?

the democrats are also instituting state pensions and free education for all.

the BUDGET... Show us the budget, the consistency with the speech or is it one more politician empty shell, just a rhetoric....

[noahvail]

I was quite surprised to learn of it myself! I don't have a gold card, no. At the two public hospitals I've used, a copy of the first page of the Tambien Baan, passport, and visa extension was all that was asked for, and now I'm in their system, and they can find my number by accessing my name. (...)

And that's about as much as I know

I was interested in this because your post suggests that uninsurable expats might be able to get low-cost healthcare on the fringes of the Thai public system. The really intriguing possibility would be that the local health network (the CUP) registered you for the UC scheme on the basis of the housing registration document. This is the document that a Thai citizen needs to get registered but I'd been told this wasn't possible for foreigners, though I think there has been a recent move to cover refugees. The other explanation is that you are simply getting private, pay out-of-pocket treatment in public hospitals/PCUs at very reasonable prices. If you (or your wife) ever get the chance to clarify what your registration number refers to, I'm sure many on the forum would find the information very useful.

Ah, ok...to straighten out any confusion: I don't have a Blue Tambien Baan - that is for the owner of the house (and possibly the land, I'm not sure). But my mother-in-law registered me at her house, which granted me a Yellow Tambien Baan. These are available to any foreigner who meets certain conditions, the major one being that some houseowner has to be willing to register you.

As I understand it, that is often not an easy task. However, once you have a Yellow Tambien Baan, other doors can open up to you beyond medical care. It's accepted as your residency address for getting a driver's license, for instance - obviating the need to get a letter from your Embassy or Thai Immigration, which I understand is no longer providing such a letter from all offices. The tambien baan and a 5-year driver's license will often get me Thai prices, instead of the expensive side of the two-tier system. And having it seems to get people to feel you're con thai as opposed to farang.

Any other questions, feel free to PM me.

[plachon]

Since this thread is about social security and before it descends into the usual red vs yellow nonsense I will ask a question.

I pay tax here and social security, I received a card that allows me to go to hospital, my staff tell me that at the hospital I will treated without paying any extra, somehow this does not sound correct to me, can anyone shed light on what is and what is not covered, or steer me to a page that explains this?

Thanks

An Issan story from my direct entourage;

The Father from the Family (Nong Khai village nearby Siwilai) is directed to Khon Khaeng regional hospital for investigation and treatment: there, they diagnostic a lung cancer (He is a medium smoker), told him "treatment is too much expansive', we cannot do anything for you, go home".

The family has sold the pick up in order to buy drugs for smoothing the end life of the father and also spend the money in searching a solution through parallel medicare.....

Here's a true story from 2003 during the early years of the much vaunted TRT "30 baht cures all diseases" policy, told me by the caretaker of the house we were renting at time.

Pregnant wife goes into state run provincial hospital hoping to get 30 B medical care with pre-natal complications. Gets lousy treatment and under the scheme is then moved to a nearby private hospital also supposedly covered by Thaksin's scheme. There they give better treatment, but also demand money for medical care. Wife gets worse. Costs for husband rise, who is on low monthly wage. He has to scrimp and save to pull the money to try and save wife. To no avail as wife and unborn baby dies in hospital. He's presented with 12,000 baht bill and her body. He has to take a loan to pay back this money to hospital.

"30 baht cures all diseases". Nice one Thakky.

My own in-laws experienced similar lousy treatment and fob-offs during same period. "Paracetamol cures all diseases" policy more like.

[deadsnoopy]

"30 baht cures all diseases". Nice one Thakky.

Who's Thakky? Doesn't this forum have a rule that you can't twist someone's real name? You don't see other people writing "Shitty" either, do you?

[elcent]

Here's a true story from 2003 during the early years of the much vaunted TRT "30 baht cures all diseases" policy, told me by the caretaker of the house we were renting at time.

Pregnant wife goes into state run provincial hospital hoping to get 30 B medical care with pre-natal complications. Gets lousy treatment and under the scheme is then moved to a nearby private hospital also supposedly covered by Thaksin's scheme. There they give better treatment, but also demand money for medical care. Wife gets worse. Costs for husband rise, who is on low monthly wage. He has to scrimp and save to pull the money to try and save wife. To no avail as wife and unborn baby dies in hospital. He's presented with 12,000 baht bill and her body. He has to take a loan to pay back this money to hospital.

"30 baht cures all diseases". Nice one Thakky.

My own in-laws experienced similar lousy treatment and fob-offs during same period. "Paracetamol cures all diseases" policy more like.

I don't doubt that for a moment. Most of the victims don't come forward with the truth or what they have experienced during that time. They're shy. I know of a young lady who's father has diabetes, her mother serious issues with her throat. Father, a former road constructor, has to be regularly treated in ICU for 1500 /a day. Mother has to come up for her health expenses. This all mounts up to thousands of Baht for each month, which the daughter has to shoulder with a 8 - 10000 Baht income. Monthly treatment costs are approx. 7000. Sometime 15 000 (ICU) and sometime 5 000.

[Jerrytheyoung]

until now, all the money spent by the gov serves only the corrupt system and gang leaders within the gov and extended arms in the villages. We're talking about billions a time which gets channeled to the wrong pockets.

A friend of mine was working for a certain gov department and couldn't stand it any longer. Staff there were forced to change/falsify documents and reports or lose the job. Fortunately my friend found another department to work, which is less corrupted.

About 50% of the budgets assigned for certain projects lands in the hands of these criminals. With the rest of the remaining 50% the contractors are still forced to pay 10 - 20% feedback (almost daily restaurants visits, club visits, massage parlor visits and cash handouts for those involved). Why do you think that everybody is so keen to get a gov seat? Can someone tell me of what's left for the workforce?

This why I urge for a real worker Union, which works external, outside the gov with a controlling function. Things would change quickly.

The WTC would be an ideal to set up a Union HQ with all the branches without any involvement of the gov. The only thing it(gov) could do is to buy the WTC for them and let people elect their staff. After all, the WTC was built on local and international prostitution ring rackets and money laundering.

I will let open the choice of the International association, but yes Unions are a key fundamental in a Democratic system.

Around 20 years ago, I have met Ernie, then German General Secretary of ITF for Europe (international Transport Federation), and I was attending a conference. We have gotten a very touching moment when Ernie showed us the barn where Hitler has hanged in 1932 the german top unionists (by butcher hooks) - if I remember well 72 people-

Ernie explained us that Hitler has analysed that the Unions were a stronger obstacle to the Nazism than political parties, and it was the first thing to eliminate. One year later, Hitler has eliminated the political opposition.

We have gotten a full history of the after WWII re-building of the New germany, new Constitution and importance and role of the German Unions for avoiding a new adventure...

So, in conclusion, Elcent, I follow you on this point.

[plachon]

"30 baht cures all diseases". Nice one Thakky.

Who's Thakky? Doesn't this forum have a rule that you can't twist someone's real name? You don't see other people writing "Shitty" either, do you?

It was an accidental misspelling of Takki, as in Takki Shinegra - the name he elected for himself on his Monetenegran, Ugandan and Nicaraguan passports. Read all about it here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thaksin-s-Pa...hi-t317055.html

You seem to have a short memory of your hero's chameleon-like nature.

[deadsnoopy]

"30 baht cures all diseases". Nice one Thakky.

Who's Thakky? Doesn't this forum have a rule that you can't twist someone's real name? You don't see other people writing "Shitty" either, do you?

It was an accidental misspelling of Takki, as in Takki Shinegra - the name he elected for himself on his Monetenegran, Ugandan and Nicaraguan passports. Read all about it here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thaksin-s-Pa...hi-t317055.html

You seem to have a short memory of your hero's chameleon-like nature.

That's a false rumor spread by the Thai Foreign Ministry. His passport shows his real name, not Takki Shinegra.

[hardy1943]

Nothing exactly new. Why do you think if you're born into an Issan family, you're also basically your parents pension plan?

Does not need to be in Issan. Why do you think so many pretty young ladies marry us? We are so handsome

We are ticket to a better life and the pension plan for the parents.