PM Abhisit Announces Next Election Will Be Held On Nov 14

[jdinasia]

The social elite yellow shirts have finally bowed to the down trodden reds (the working class who keep the yellows in the lifestyle they cherish) They will have an election but the only problem is the yellows will saturate it in corruption an ensure that it is not fair and just. When the yellows demonstrate they target farangs (remember the airport) When the reds demonstrate they keep it in house.

Hmmm International Hotels

Khao San Rd

Banking District

(using bombs and snipers --- terrorism as the PM and others have said --- )

Targetting tourism

Targetting the skytrain

-----

All affect tourism. If you want to call this bowing down to the terrorists then so be it ... but Abhisit still gets all his goals accomplished. He sets the budget, he sets the military reshuffle (names th new head of the military), he sets the stage for a new constitution that EVERYONE and not just a misguided minority has input into.)

That is rubbish the only people that will have input will be the rich social elite yellow shirts. The government could not careless about the rank and file thais. Thier objective is to keep the poor, poor and uneducated because they are a threat to the yellow shirts way of life. You will not see a yellow shirt working 15 hours a day in the rice fields they sit in cafe's and reap the spoils that the reds work hard to give them.

Ah ... countered on your claims of not targetting foreigners ... then you quickly switch to the constitution. Yet, sadly, you are wrong again. Abhisit has always said that any charter revision needs participation from all aspects of Thai society. Your remarks about rice farmers does in fact show you to be not very educated about farming as well. While there are some long hours involved in the planting and harvest times it is FAR from a 15 hour a day job throughout the year. 2 weeks of planting that may extend into 6 weeks IF they have enough land and spend time communally helping neighbors, but normally 2 weeks of prep and planting. Check the fields briefly a few times a week to insure that water levels are adequate etc. Work the fields again at the time the grain is almost ripe and then harvest.

You are correct that you will likely NOT see the average yellow shirt working in the fields in the north east, but the Democrats (not the same as the Yellow shirts even though some people attempt that facile argument) have a STRONG following in the South where agriculture in the form of rubber etc actually takes more time than growing rice in terms of time spent in working the plantation.

Your arguments regarding the yellows realy are not well considered. Business people in the process of growing a new business spend MANY hours working for no or little pay. A new business shows no profit, sometimes for years, but requires a huge investment of time. The middle-classes which constitute the majority of the yellow shirts are a new and emerging group in Thailand. They are the taxpayers and not socially elite or socially "connected". The top echelon of the yellow shirt movement are a varied lot that are made up of everything from Anti-Thaksin people, to top level business people, to former Thaksin allies that are now almost ascetics (like Chamlong SriMuang). The reds --- well you have former Democrats, maoists, members of PTP, convicted felons, people branded terrorists (and that brand may stick internationally) violent extremists, etc

[Deeral]

Abhisit has no mandate - the "opposition" will most likely form the next govt and he knows it.

does he regard these 5 points as prerequisites or are they a wish-list?

Basically they have little or no substance but do seem to represent the first step in trying to wriggle out of a situation without losing too much face.

THe Redshirts too need a way to withdraw gracefully without losing face - there may be a path here.

Either way the crisis CANNOT be ended in bloodshed - quite apart from the loss of life the damage it would do to Thai society and Thailand's relationship with the international community would reduce Thailand's status beyond acceptable parameters.

[jcbangkok]

Don't have silly hopes. The evidence is clear. 2 cases, in one the EC voted 4:1 and in the other 5:0.

It is a save bet to say that the democrats will be dissolved and Abhisit banned from politics.

-----------------

There is no guarantee that even if the charges are substantiated in the courts that this will lead to disbanding of the party. They are not being charged with election fraud.

And let us not forget that the EC only made its recommendation after being overrun and threatened by the reds. Please tell me where in the world rational people would put much weight into this kind of recommendation given the threats and duress they were under? I am not saying the allegations of illegal contributions is not true but it is a long ways from being proven and it is still a very long way from knowing what the results will be if it is proven.

Illegal contributions or misusing money in an election is a far cry from election/voter fraud. In fact it is fairly common in the US with the result almost always being the party simply returning the money. I am not saying this is right but it is what it is in politics and in the grand scheme of corruption in Thailand this is not all the grand.

Edited May 4, 2010 by jcbangkok

[Pax50]

This sounds very nice and like a possible breaktrough ... Reds would be crazy to refuse after the bad days they had. However, with terrorists charges threatening and no mention of amnesty in his 5 point program, they might ask to have amnesty added as a number 6 prior to give in.

Yes I think this is a main point. Amnesty! Most of them out on bail already. Difficult question, but i think they must face justice, because many of their crimes is to serious.

Amnesty for whom? Minor offences OK but for homocides, terorism NO!!! Abhisit, under difficult circumstances, made a bold and compromising decision. Will all parties respect the results of the November election?

[ChiangMaiFun]

Abhisit has really shown himself to be a stand up guy who has done a lot for Thailand and the poor in the short time since being elected PM. He has done this while having to deal with former Thaksin supporters who have constantly tried to derail any positive growth in Thailand. But he has prevailed and not only has the economy got back on track, he has not taken away any of the policies Thaksin put in place for the poor but in fact has added more real ones and bettered some of Thaksin's failed ones. He has also taken this country in the right direction despite many in the army and police being Thaksin supporters.

Abhisit is incredibly well educated both in Thai ways as well as internationally. He also comes from a very well off family and has little motivation to be corrupt. His words and actions seem to go hand in hand to the best of his ability and there is no reason to believe he cannot be trusted beyond his being a politician. He even was against the coup that ousted the corrupt Thaksin as he knew this was not the democratic way.

Abhisit has shown a true love of Thailand, its people as well as the monarchy.

He asked everyone to be patient and he has now finally delivered a plan as promised to end the current lawless red mob seizure of BKK and hostage taking of Thailand. Clearly the patience has allowed the red mob to be marginalized while giving them enough rope to hang themselves. His road map is not about giving the reds what they want (pretty much the same offer he gave at the start of this) but instead is about getting Thailand back on track and moving in a truly modern democratic way.

If the red leaders don't accept this offer, there numbers in the red mob will be very very small leaving only the hardcore people bent on hurting Thailand at any cost to bring back Thaksin. He has said all along he didn't want to break up the lawless mob until he could do it without harming a great number of civilians in the crowd.

The red mob has no move left but either resorting to an all out terrorist campaign or turn themselves in and/or go home. The red leaders goal of having the authorities move in and face the mob who would react violently is now not an option. Sure they can still do this but they are not going to gain any of the sympathy they want from it and it certainly will not make the PM or gov't look evil. In fact, the gov't would benefit now if they can use force to remove the last remnants and most hardcore of the reds from their illegal seizure of an area in BKK.

The reds had a chance to walk away with credibility and as winner when the PM agreed to sit down with them and the PM's first offer in the negotiation was pretty much what he is offering now. The red mob loses either way now and their only hope it to agree to go home and step up rhetoric of how they won and pretend their movement wasn't incredibly harmful to Thailand and their own movement.

I really disagree with this - without the reds action Abhisit would never have brought forward the election - a very biased view of this outcome (which I hope the reds will accept) - a victory for the reds - if only they can see it and grasp it! they have won now go home and prepare for government.

[rabo]

I'd take my hat off to Abhisit any day ...as soon as he explains on national television as to why he took a 259 million Baht illegal donation during the last election, and approved it as the chairman of the Democrats. Sure, you can try and smear the opposition party as corrupt, but at least you've got to acknowledge you're just as corrupt. Hands caught in the cookie jar

you are grasping at the very few straws left on the table

dissolution will never happen by this route

its a trumped up charge, passed over quickly by the EC commission under death threat by Arisaman and his rent a mob.

when its investigated it will be seen to have been passed upstairs under duress and to be an eroneous charge manufactured by Phua Thai to muddy the waters of the Democrats

it will be seen for what it is and officially dropped when the Red head haze has died down

Korn and Abhissit are both financial wizards, Korn is the 2010 Asian banker of the year

do you really think they couldn't have laundered this in a way so that it would not be discovered by the ex rice pickers/bean counters at the EC?

please grow up........

Don't have silly hopes. The evidence is clear. 2 cases, in one the EC voted 4:1 and in the other 5:0.

It is a save bet to say that the democrats will be dissolved and Abhisit banned from politics.

Korn will go afterwards to New Politics Party and not join the new 'ex-democrats' party.

Dead....., sorry to disappoint , according to my almost a lawyer niece, the 250m baht contribution was made, legally, after the 1997 constitution was revoked and before the 2007 constitution was put in place. It is going to be hard for the courts to find a constitutional law that was violated.

Both illegal contribution charges are less serious charges than election fraud, and could have been decided by the head of the EC alone. He was sitting on the charges until Arisman stormed to EC and the vote was made the next day, by the whole (but not required) committee. This is called buck passing under pressure.

The dems also have the best legal teams in the country.

[jcbangkok]

But do they KNOW WHY they don't like him? Or they just don't like him because that's what they have been trained to do?

news for you !

There are some people even in Isaan that can think for themselves - Amazing Thailand

Sorry to say that the red campaign has really done a lot to damage this perception.

[Lost in LOS]

Yep, agree with you totally. Abhisit might want to tell the Thais that an election will come but will they vote with their heart and mind or with the money that Thaskin will give them. This next election will cost Thaskin a lot of bribe money, lets hope he has trouble dispersing it and the election will be "fairer"

Abhisit has really shown himself to be a stand up guy who has done a lot for Thailand and the poor in the short time since being elected PM. He has done this while having to deal with former Thaksin supporters who have constantly tried to derail any positive growth in Thailand. But he has prevailed and not only has the economy got back on track, he has not taken away any of the policies Thaksin put in place for the poor but in fact has added more real ones and bettered some of Thaksin's failed ones. He has also taken this country in the right direction despite many in the army and police being Thaksin supporters.

Abhisit is incredibly well educated both in Thai ways as well as internationally. He also comes from a very well off family and has little motivation to be corrupt. His words and actions seem to go hand in hand to the best of his ability and there is no reason to believe he cannot be trusted beyond his being a politician. He even was against the coup that ousted the corrupt Thaksin as he knew this was not the democratic way.

Abhisit has shown a true love of Thailand, its people as well as the monarchy.

He asked everyone to be patient and he has now finally delivered a plan as promised to end the current lawless red mob seizure of BKK and hostage taking of Thailand. Clearly the patience has allowed the red mob to be marginalized while giving them enough rope to hang themselves. His road map is not about giving the reds what they want (pretty much the same offer he gave at the start of this) but instead is about getting Thailand back on track and moving in a truly modern democratic way.

If the red leaders don't accept this offer, there numbers in the red mob will be very very small leaving only the hardcore people bent on hurting Thailand at any cost to bring back Thaksin. He has said all along he didn't want to break up the lawless mob until he could do it without harming a great number of civilians in the crowd.

The red mob has no move left but either resorting to an all out terrorist campaign or turn themselves in and/or go home. The red leaders goal of having the authorities move in and face the mob who would react violently is now not an option. Sure they can still do this but they are not going to gain any of the sympathy they want from it and it certainly will not make the PM or gov't look evil. In fact, the gov't would benefit now if they can use force to remove the last remnants and most hardcore of the reds from their illegal seizure of an area in BKK.

The reds had a chance to walk away with credibility and as winner when the PM agreed to sit down with them and the PM's first offer in the negotiation was pretty much what he is offering now. The red mob loses either way now and their only hope it to agree to go home and step up rhetoric of how they won and pretend their movement wasn't incredibly harmful to Thailand and their own movement.

[ChiangMaiFun]

The social elite yellow shirts have finally bowed to the down trodden reds (the working class who keep the yellows in the lifestyle they cherish) They will have an election but the only problem is the yellows will saturate it in corruption an ensure that it is not fair and just. When the yellows demonstrate they target farangs (remember the airport) When the reds demonstrate they keep it in house.

Hmmm International Hotels

Khao San Rd

Banking District

(using bombs and snipers --- terrorism as the PM and others have said --- )

Targetting tourism

Targetting the skytrain

-----

All affect tourism. If you want to call this bowing down to the terrorists then so be it ... but Abhisit still gets all his goals accomplished. He sets the budget, he sets the military reshuffle (names th new head of the military), he sets the stage for a new constitution that EVERYONE and not just a misguided minority has input into.)

That is rubbish the only people that will have input will be the rich social elite yellow shirts. The government could not careless about the rank and file thais. Thier objective is to keep the poor, poor and uneducated because they are a threat to the yellow shirts way of life. You will not see a yellow shirt working 15 hours a day in the rice fields they sit in cafe's and reap the spoils that the reds work hard to give them.

Ah ... countered on your claims of not targetting foreigners ... then you quickly switch to the constitution. Yet, sadly, you are wrong again. Abhisit has always said that any charter revision needs participation from all aspects of Thai society. Your remarks about rice farmers does in fact show you to be not very educated about farming as well. While there are some long hours involved in the planting and harvest times it is FAR from a 15 hour a day job throughout the year. 2 weeks of planting that may extend into 6 weeks IF they have enough land and spend time communally helping neighbors, but normally 2 weeks of prep and planting. Check the fields briefly a few times a week to insure that water levels are adequate etc. Work the fields again at the time the grain is almost ripe and then harvest.

You are correct that you will likely NOT see the average yellow shirt working in the fields in the north east, but the Democrats (not the same as the Yellow shirts even though some people attempt that facile argument) have a STRONG following in the South where agriculture in the form of rubber etc actually takes more time than growing rice in terms of time spent in working the plantation.

Your arguments regarding the yellows realy are not well considered. Business people in the process of growing a new business spend MANY hours working for no or little pay. A new business shows no profit, sometimes for years, but requires a huge investment of time. The middle-classes which constitute the majority of the yellow shirts are a new and emerging group in Thailand. They are the taxpayers and not socially elite or socially "connected". The top echelon of the yellow shirt movement are a varied lot that are made up of everything from Anti-Thaksin people, to top level business people, to former Thaksin allies that are now almost ascetics (like Chamlong SriMuang). The reds --- well you have former Democrats, maoists, members of PTP, convicted felons, people branded terrorists (and that brand may stick internationally) violent extremists, etc

oh those poor, poor business people toiling years and years for no profit - my heart bleeds... the reality is the Dems (yellows - just look at their FM) are for the elite and run BY the elite - Abhisit? Eton? Oxford? what ho? son of rich, elitist parents? gimme a break!

[whybother]

But do they KNOW WHY they don't like him? Or they just don't like him because that's what they have been trained to do?

news for you !

There are some people even in Isaan that can think for themselves - Amazing Thailand

Yes, they are the ones that don't support the reds.

[jcbangkok]

I really disagree with this - without the reds action Abhisit would never have brought forward the election - a very biased view of this outcome (which I hope the reds will accept) - a victory for the reds - if only they can see it and grasp it! they have won now go home and prepare for government.

-------------------------

The point is the PM offered this same deal (elections at the end of the year) right at the start of the protests when he agreed to sit down and with red leaders on live TV and the reds refused to negotiate on their 15-day time frame.

Remember too that Thaksin's money is now no longer in frozen accounts but is now in the Thailand treasury. This alone has radically reduced the need for immediate house dissolution and elections.

Edited May 4, 2010 by jcbangkok

[rabo]

Abhisit has really shown himself to be a stand up guy who has done a lot for Thailand and the poor in the short time since being elected PM. He has done this while having to deal with former Thaksin supporters who have constantly tried to derail any positive growth in Thailand. But he has prevailed and not only has the economy got back on track, he has not taken away any of the policies Thaksin put in place for the poor but in fact has added more real ones and bettered some of Thaksin's failed ones. He has also taken this country in the right direction despite many in the army and police being Thaksin supporters.

Abhisit is incredibly well educated both in Thai ways as well as internationally. He also comes from a very well off family and has little motivation to be corrupt. His words and actions seem to go hand in hand to the best of his ability and there is no reason to believe he cannot be trusted beyond his being a politician. He even was against the coup that ousted the corrupt Thaksin as he knew this was not the democratic way.

Abhisit has shown a true love of Thailand, its people as well as the monarchy.

He asked everyone to be patient and he has now finally delivered a plan as promised to end the current lawless red mob seizure of BKK and hostage taking of Thailand. Clearly the patience has allowed the red mob to be marginalized while giving them enough rope to hang themselves. His road map is not about giving the reds what they want (pretty much the same offer he gave at the start of this) but instead is about getting Thailand back on track and moving in a truly modern democratic way.

If the red leaders don't accept this offer, there numbers in the red mob will be very very small leaving only the hardcore people bent on hurting Thailand at any cost to bring back Thaksin. He has said all along he didn't want to break up the lawless mob until he could do it without harming a great number of civilians in the crowd.

The red mob has no move left but either resorting to an all out terrorist campaign or turn themselves in and/or go home. The red leaders goal of having the authorities move in and face the mob who would react violently is now not an option. Sure they can still do this but they are not going to gain any of the sympathy they want from it and it certainly will not make the PM or gov't look evil. In fact, the gov't would benefit now if they can use force to remove the last remnants and most hardcore of the reds from their illegal seizure of an area in BKK.

The reds had a chance to walk away with credibility and as winner when the PM agreed to sit down with them and the PM's first offer in the negotiation was pretty much what he is offering now. The red mob loses either way now and their only hope it to agree to go home and step up rhetoric of how they won and pretend their movement wasn't incredibly harmful to Thailand and their own movement.

I really disagree with this - without the reds action Abhisit would never have brought forward the election - a very biased view of this outcome (which I hope the reds will accept) - a victory for the reds - if only they can see it and grasp it! they have won now go home and prepare for government.

Although I agree this would not have happened without the red protests, I have trouble thinking of it as a red victory. Many (some) of the red leaders are going be be locked up, Thaksin lost what little face he may have had, and Mr. Abhisit and his followers are now in an immensely stronger position. Abhisit is problaby happy to hold the elections in November rather than wait another year.

[timekeeper]

But do they KNOW WHY they don't like him? Or they just don't like him because that's what they have been trained to do?

news for you !

There are some people even in Isaan that can think for themselves - Amazing Thailand

the general overall impression of Isaan people is that they can think for themselves but they allow those thoughts to be bought and sold as a commodity for the benefit of higher up members of the food chain.

[jcbangkok]

But do they KNOW WHY they don't like him? Or they just don't like him because that's what they have been trained to do?

news for you !

There are some people even in Isaan that can think for themselves - Amazing Thailand

Yes, they are the ones that don't support the reds.

or at least the red leaders motivations and actions.

[whybother]

Abhisit has no mandate - the "opposition" will most likely form the next govt and he knows it.

does he regard these 5 points as prerequisites or are they a wish-list?

Basically they have little or no substance but do seem to represent the first step in trying to wriggle out of a situation without losing too much face.

THe Redshirts too need a way to withdraw gracefully without losing face - there may be a path here.

Either way the crisis CANNOT be ended in bloodshed - quite apart from the loss of life the damage it would do to Thai society and Thailand's relationship with the international community would reduce Thailand's status beyond acceptable parameters.

From the results of the last election, no one has a mandate.

But you don't actually need a mandate to govern the country.

[Chaimai]

oh those poor, poor business people toiling years and years for no profit - my heart bleeds... the reality is the Dems (yellows - just look at their FM) are for the elite and run BY the elite - Abhisit? Eton? Oxford? what ho? son of rich, elitist parents? gimme a break!

... and you think 14th November will change this ?

[thaihome]

I have been following the recent events, as a recent 'ex-pat' living in Thailand, and I am not sure of the players, their allegiances or the history.

I live in Ta Phraya (by the Cambodian border - 50km north of Aranya Phratet), (town pop 15,000, amphur pop 45,000) but have had to go to hospital in Pattaya recently (6 times), and went to the British Embassy for an Affirmation to Marry, 2 weeks ago. I haven't witnessed any violent protests in any of these places. I'm not doubting that they haven't happened!

However, here in 'sleepy' Ta Phraya, there are town meetings, not about what colour one should support, but how the teachers and education system, and parents should deal with educating the kids, who are on their 6,7,8 week holiday, who have had the bloodshed pushed in their faces, and their parents talking about it, here in the 'country' there is no yellows, no reds, there are people who beieve that they benefited during Thaksins premiership, but some are waivering, they are not reds, but they want democracy!

I'm quite proud that where I've landed up is still about looking after your friends and neighbours, and worrying about what your children are going to learn on the first day of school in the next couple of weeks!

By the way, November 14th is both my wife's birthday and our first wedding Anniversary - so 'election' party at mine! Orange shirts will be acceptable!

Sorry if I wandered off the direct topic - but it's a forum, so I shared!

Good post and it is good you are making an attempt to understand local politics. Perhaps you should ask your relatives who they voted for Member of Parliment and if they have ever heard of Sanoh Thienthong.

TH

[BexleyBoy]

I have been following the recent events, as a recent 'ex-pat' living in Thailand, and I am not sure of the players, their allegiances or the history.

I live in Ta Phraya (by the Cambodian border - 50km north of Aranya Phratet), (town pop 15,000, amphur pop 45,000) but have had to go to hospital in Pattaya recently (6 times), and went to the British Embassy for an Affirmation to Marry, 2 weeks ago. I haven't witnessed any violent protests in any of these places. I'm not doubting that they haven't happened!

However, here in 'sleepy' Ta Phraya, there are town meetings, not about what colour one should support, but how the teachers and education system, and parents should deal with educating the kids, who are on their 6,7,8 week holiday, who have had the bloodshed pushed in their faces, and their parents talking about it, here in the 'country' there is no yellows, no reds, there are people who beieve that they benefited during Thaksins premiership, but some are waivering, they are not reds, but they want democracy!

I'm quite proud that where I've landed up is still about looking after your friends and neighbours, and worrying about what your children are going to learn on the first day of school in the next couple of weeks!

By the way, November 14th is both my wife's birthday and our first wedding Anniversary - so 'election' party at mine! Orange shirts will be acceptable!

Sorry if I wandered off the direct topic - but it's a forum, so I shared!

So,Happy birthday to your wife, and a very happy Anniversary.... nice to know there are some happy Farangs here in LOS.... WHERES THE PARTY..?

[whybother]

oh those poor, poor business people toiling years and years for no profit - my heart bleeds... the reality is the Dems (yellows - just look at their FM) are for the elite and run BY the elite - Abhisit? Eton? Oxford? what ho? son of rich, elitist parents? gimme a break!

How is a business owner that works 15 hours a day to run his business different to a farmer that works 15 hours a day to run a farm?

What is it, just because they own a business, they must be yellow elite?

[ChiangMaiFun]

Abhisit has really shown himself to be a stand up guy who has done a lot for Thailand and the poor in the short time since being elected PM. He has done this while having to deal with former Thaksin supporters who have constantly tried to derail any positive growth in Thailand. But he has prevailed and not only has the economy got back on track, he has not taken away any of the policies Thaksin put in place for the poor but in fact has added more real ones and bettered some of Thaksin's failed ones. He has also taken this country in the right direction despite many in the army and police being Thaksin supporters.

Abhisit is incredibly well educated both in Thai ways as well as internationally. He also comes from a very well off family and has little motivation to be corrupt. His words and actions seem to go hand in hand to the best of his ability and there is no reason to believe he cannot be trusted beyond his being a politician. He even was against the coup that ousted the corrupt Thaksin as he knew this was not the democratic way.

Abhisit has shown a true love of Thailand, its people as well as the monarchy.

He asked everyone to be patient and he has now finally delivered a plan as promised to end the current lawless red mob seizure of BKK and hostage taking of Thailand. Clearly the patience has allowed the red mob to be marginalized while giving them enough rope to hang themselves. His road map is not about giving the reds what they want (pretty much the same offer he gave at the start of this) but instead is about getting Thailand back on track and moving in a truly modern democratic way.

If the red leaders don't accept this offer, there numbers in the red mob will be very very small leaving only the hardcore people bent on hurting Thailand at any cost to bring back Thaksin. He has said all along he didn't want to break up the lawless mob until he could do it without harming a great number of civilians in the crowd.

The red mob has no move left but either resorting to an all out terrorist campaign or turn themselves in and/or go home. The red leaders goal of having the authorities move in and face the mob who would react violently is now not an option. Sure they can still do this but they are not going to gain any of the sympathy they want from it and it certainly will not make the PM or gov't look evil. In fact, the gov't would benefit now if they can use force to remove the last remnants and most hardcore of the reds from their illegal seizure of an area in BKK.

The reds had a chance to walk away with credibility and as winner when the PM agreed to sit down with them and the PM's first offer in the negotiation was pretty much what he is offering now. The red mob loses either way now and their only hope it to agree to go home and step up rhetoric of how they won and pretend their movement wasn't incredibly harmful to Thailand and their own movement.

I really disagree with this - without the reds action Abhisit would never have brought forward the election - a very biased view of this outcome (which I hope the reds will accept) - a victory for the reds - if only they can see it and grasp it! they have won now go home and prepare for government.

Although I agree this would not have happened without the red protests, I have trouble thinking of it as a red victory. Many (some) of the red leaders are going be be locked up, Thaksin lost what little face he may have had, and Mr. Abhisit and his followers are now in an immensely stronger position. Abhisit is problaby happy to hold the elections in November rather than wait another year.

At LAST someone actually telling the truth - of course it would never have happened without the red protest - that's a fact - it cannot be denied (will be denied of course by my yellow friends but it's not the truth). Maybe 'victory' is a tad overstated but it is, undeniably, a FACT. Forget about Thaksin - he's finished - let's see what the election brings. If Abhisit wins fairly then no arguements from me.

[BexleyBoy]

Hats off to Abisit. This forum is full of self professed experts who can tell exactly what is wrong with almost any topic, person and Abisit as well. I do not recall Abisit advocating that he is infallible. What I do see is that he has done a great job as seeking a political solution against a Para-military action that used innocent peasents as pawns. He has kept a cool head, and he has never given up hope for a peaceful settlement and continues to seek a solution and justice that is good for all Thais, (even if it means his loss of the next election). The man shows vision and foresight and a glimmer of hope for the Thai people. I have seen very little sincere concern for the people from any other politician in Thailand in the last 15 years of self-serving PMs. Sure critics can find fault with Abisit, but he is the best PM by far. He has tabled a proposal that allows the Red's to save face. Yes there are "IFs" and conditions attached to the proposal, as there should be. If the Reds do not play nice, then the deal is off. It looks to me that Abisit is a great leader and the best hope for a nation seeking to mature it's democratic model. Who cares if he is yellow, green or red, a puppet or a visionary... he is what Thailand need most at this time, a catalyst to a new level of maturity for Thailand. I hope that the Thai people see this and support him in future elections. I hope the Red activist seize the chance to promote their cause in the next elections. I pray that the Thai people see their way to a more stable, and humane society reaching a harmony that is right for the people, their values and morals, and to live in happiness and mutual respect.

And then again we can always become Jehovas Witnesses.... what did John Lennon say...Imagine..!!!!

[noahvail]

oh those poor, poor business people toiling years and years for no profit - my heart bleeds... the reality is the Dems (yellows - just look at their FM) are for the elite and run BY the elite - Abhisit? Eton? Oxford? what ho? son of rich, elitist parents? gimme a break!

I am very sorry to hear about your heart problems.

Perhaps you will see one of the many fine doctors practicing in Thailand who have received UK and/or US training, acknowledged as the finest medical training in the world. I trust that they will be able to save you.

And if they are, it might be because both parents of the current PM are medical professors in the UK. There are many doctors in government hospitals, and many doctors in Thailand's university-connected teaching hospitals, who have had UK training. With two medical professors from Thailand, there would be a commonality of purpose between those two and their students - bringing the best medical care to the people of Thailand.

Is that an elitist attitude? Perhaps. But then, not wanting to show allegiance to elitists, you will no doubt wish to ensure that your own heart doctors were trained in Granada, Guatemala, or one of the smaller medical schools in rural Mexico - doctors of the people, hardly elitist - but without the training (and perhaps ability) to make them into some of the best doctors in Thailand.

Meh - rich? Sure. But remember that up here in Issan, someone who earns US$2,500 a month is *very* rich - income of nearly a million baht a year. By western standards, they are coming down close to the poverty line.

[ChiangMaiFun]

oh those poor, poor business people toiling years and years for no profit - my heart bleeds... the reality is the Dems (yellows - just look at their FM) are for the elite and run BY the elite - Abhisit? Eton? Oxford? what ho? son of rich, elitist parents? gimme a break!

... and you think 14th November will change this ?

depends on the outcome I guess... but probably not.. alas... but I have a natural aversion to all this 'defferential voting' the elite being 'born' to lead us all - I hate it (nothing against education by the way... I have two degrees) but it's the rich and powerful who 'hold' 85%of the wealth that I despise - my hero's are people like the Dalai Lama etc. I guess ideally I'd like a 'theocracy'.

[ChiangMaiFun]

I can't wait until Thailand establishes a republic form of government.

Arghhh you can't say that they will ban you - it's the 'thing' we can't discuss and of course none of us want

[jcbangkok]

But do they KNOW WHY they don't like him? Or they just don't like him because that's what they have been trained to do?

news for you !

There are some people even in Isaan that can think for themselves - Amazing Thailand

the general overall impression of Isaan people is that they can think for themselves but they allow those thoughts to be bought and sold as a commodity for the benefit of higher up members of the food chain.

I disagree and do believe a good portion of the people outside the Northeast see them as just above the uneducated illegal Laos workers in Thailand. They are without a doubt looked down on by much of Thailand and sadly to say that because they have allowed the red leaders to conduct this war against Thailand, they are now also hated by a good deal of Thais.

There situation is not fair (but who said life is) but they do have the ability to control their destiny. I don't recommend taking this route but Thaksin was born fairly poor and is from the north and he rose up. Family farming is always going to be a poor job in this day and age anywhere in the world but the point is these people need to be able to educate (schooling) their next generation and do a lot more to not latch on to violent leaders but rather charismatic and smart ones that can change perceptions. People in Germany were rightly mad and angry about their conditions and this is why they followed Hitler same as many blacks followed revolutionary leaders in the US but this is not the way to achieve your goals especially when you are dealing with a gov't smart enough not to give in an attack lawless mobs and allow them to be perceived as bullies who truly don't see the underprivileged as non-human.

The other thing these folks need to realize is that Thaksin clearly was not good for them as they are now more in debt than ever and there was no real polices put in place to allow them to prosper on their own. Thaksin's policies were one of hand-outs for votes and making their local leaders rich because the masses up there are so easy to control and manipulate with a few cash handouts here in there or even providing them guaranteed loans that everyone knows they cannot pay back and will just make them more in debt to local leaders.

I can only imagine what would happen if the US just gave out loans to people in the slums in the US without requiring these loans be applied to specific things. I think the result would probably be most everyone in the ghetto driving around in soon to be repo'd Cadillacs and watching flat screens with only a very few using the money to improve their opportunities in life. This would not their fault for many reasons but partly because Thaksin and the local leaders need to keep these people down and encourage this. Also these folks are not mostly not educated or experienced in how to invest in themselves in a world that is not as simple as being able to get ahead if you work hard and produce a product everyone needs.

Edited May 4, 2010 by jcbangkok

[whybother]

I can't wait until Thailand establishes a republic form of government.

Besides the fact that you can't talk about that, it's not going to help.

There will still be power struggles between the haves and the other haves.

[whybother]

I disagree and do believe a good portion of the people outside the Northeast see them as just above the uneducated illegal Lao workers in Thailand. They are without a doubt looked down on by much of Thailand and sadly to say that because they have allowed the red leaders to conduct this war against Thailand, they are now also hated by a good deal of Thais.

There situation is not fair (but who said life is) but they do have the ability to control their destiny. I don't recommend taking this route but Thaksin was born fairly poor and is from the north and he rose up. Family farming is always going to be a poor job in this day and age anywhere in the world but the point is these people need to be able to educate (schooling) their next generation and do a lot more to not latch on to violent leaders but rather charismatic and smart ones that can change perceptions. People in Germany were rightly mad and angry about their conditions and this is why they followed Hitler same as many blacks followed revolutionary leaders in the US but this is not the way to achieve your goals especially when you are dealing with a gov't smart enough not to give in an attack lawless mobs and allow them to be perceived as bullies who truly don't see the underprivileged as non-human.

The other thing these folks need to realize is that Thaksin clearly was not good for them as they are now more in debt than ever and there was no real polices put in place to allow them to prosper on their own. Thaksin's policies were one of hand-outs for votes and making their local leaders rich because the masses up there are so easy to control and manipulate with a few cash handouts here in there or even providing them guaranteed loans that everyone knows they cannot pay back and will just make them more in debt to local leaders.

I can only imagine what would happen if the US just gave out loans to people in the slums in the US without requiring these loans be applied to specific things. I think the result would probably be most everyone in the ghetto driving around in soon to be repo'd Cadillacs and watching flat screens with only a very few using the money to improve their opportunities in life. This would not their fault for many reasons but partly because Thaksin and the local leaders need to keep these people down and encourage this. Also these folks are not mostly not educated or experienced in how to invest in themselves in a world that is not as simple as being able to get ahead if you work hard and produce a product everyone needs.

"Thaksin was born fairly poor"

Maybe you should do a bit of research into Thaksin's "poor" family.

[ChiangMaiFun]

oh those poor, poor business people toiling years and years for no profit - my heart bleeds... the reality is the Dems (yellows - just look at their FM) are for the elite and run BY the elite - Abhisit? Eton? Oxford? what ho? son of rich, elitist parents? gimme a break!

I am very sorry to hear about your heart problems.

Perhaps you will see one of the many fine doctors practicing in Thailand who have received UK and/or US training, acknowledged as the finest medical training in the world. I trust that they will be able to save you.

And if they are, it might be because both parents of the current PM are medical professors in the UK. There are many doctors in government hospitals, and many doctors in Thailand's university-connected teaching hospitals, who have had UK training. With two medical professors from Thailand, there would be a commonality of purpose between those two and their students - bringing the best medical care to the people of Thailand.

Is that an elitist attitude? Perhaps. But then, not wanting to show allegiance to elitists, you will no doubt wish to ensure that your own heart doctors were trained in Granada, Guatemala, or one of the smaller medical schools in rural Mexico - doctors of the people, hardly elitist - but without the training (and perhaps ability) to make them into some of the best doctors in Thailand.

Meh - rich? Sure. But remember that up here in Issan, someone who earns US$2,500 a month is *very* rich - income of nearly a million baht a year. By western standards, they are coming down close to the poverty line.

ouch! I would ideally wish that the very best of medical care should be available to ALL regardless of circumstances - one of the very BEST things that the UK has to offer - in fact I was a senior NHS manager for 20 years myself before I was seduced by the City. The point is that Thailand is desperate for an honest, evolved leader - who can unite the country.

[whybother]

depends on the outcome I guess... but probably not.. alas... but I have a natural aversion to all this 'defferential voting' the elite being 'born' to lead us all - I hate it (nothing against education by the way... I have two degrees) but it's the rich and powerful who 'hold' 85%of the wealth that I despise - my hero's are people like the Dalai Lama etc. I guess ideally I'd like a 'theocracy'.

Do you mean like most of the middle east?

Dalai Lama = good.

Theocracy = bad.

[a99az]

I can't wait until Thailand establishes a republic form of government.

Wonder who would stick there nose in if it went Communist!