For Some, Thailand's Red-shirt Protests Amplify Calls For Justice

[sabaijai]

For some, Thailand's red-shirt protests amplify calls for justice

Though Thailand’s red-shirt protests are dismissed by some as a political ploy by former Thaksin Shinawatra, they have also tapped into desires in the rural northeast for economic and social justice.

By Simon Montlake, Christian Science Monitor Correspondent

May 10, 2010 at 8:30 am EDT

Nan Nong Thum, Thailand —

Decades of land-rights activism taught Keow Wongkrai a thing or two about street demonstrations. So when he was invited last month to meet with antigovernment "red-shirt" protesters, he went to hear their pitch. But Mr. Keow, a sinewy farmer, declined to join their rally in Bangkok to urge the government to dissolve parliament.

“I don’t think this type of protest can solve our problems,” he says.

In northeast Thailand, where the red shirts draw much of their support, some community activists reject the movement as little more than a political vendetta by former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

But others have linked arms with the red shirts to call for social and economic justice, which resonates deeply in this hardscrabble region. Tapping into this sentiment, the red shirts are adopting the strategies of earlier political movements, adding a dash of communist-style indoctrination by educating recruits at rural retreats and crafting strident pro-poor slogans.

The result is a hybrid of progressive, leftist, and patronage-driven politics that some observers believe has outgrown its veneration of Mr. Thaksin, who was ousted in 2006 in a military coup applauded by Bangkok’s conservative elites.

“I think it’s moved beyond taking Thaksin back to Thailand. It’s become very clear during the past three years,” says Buapun Promphakping, a sociologist at the University of Khon Kaen.

Thais grow politicized

Thaksin is an unlikely symbol of progressive politics. A telecoms billionaire and two-term prime minister, he championed capitalism and showered state benefits on the poor, while taking a hard line on dissent and ignoring human rights concerns.

But the ruptures in Thai politics, starting with yellow-shirt protests against Thaksin in 2006, have energized voters on all sides, a trend accelerated by cheap communications, alternative media, and growing awareness of international norms.

This politicization has included rural areas where community-based groups had already blazed a trail by promoting rights-based activism, often in opposition to Bangkok’s landed elite, says Decha Premrudeelert, a veteran NGO organizer in Khon Kaen.

“Many leaders from our movement have joined the red shirts. Many also joined the yellow shirts,” he says, adding that his sympathies are with the reds, though he opposed Thaksin’s rule.

“The red shirts are using every [protest] group’s experience. They learn from how they operate … and improve the formula,” he says.

Supporting a movement, or a politician?

Prawat Bunnag, a former colleague of Mr. Decha, is firmly in the yellow-shirt camp. He says Thaksin exploited the rural poor with populist schemes that left them dependent on capitalists. “Thai society has lost its capacity for self-reliance,” he says.

Mr. Prawat and other critics see the red shirts as an arm of the opposition Pua Thai party, which stands to gain most if elections are held in Thailand. Some of the red-shirt leaders, known as the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), are Pua Thai lawmakers and in close contact with Thaksin, who is a fugitive from Thai justice.

In this view, supporting the red shirts means helping Thaksin and his allies, many of them old-style party bosses in rural areas where vote-buying is common. Many Thais believe that protesters are also paid for their participation, sullying their cause.

A history of protest

But Mr. Buapun says that the movement, despite its evident flaws, has the potential to become a new force in Thai politics. “You’ve got to walk with two legs. One is you have to support some certain [politician]. The other is to have a mass movement, an independent movement,” he says.

In the 1990s, that description fitted the Assembly of the Poor, which emerged in the northeast from a campaign against an unpopular dam. It allied with disaffected urban workers and slum dwellers to stage prolonged protests similar to the red-shirt rallies that focused on specific government reforms, rather than parliamentary politics.

Landless farmers like Keow joined the movement. He has seen successive governments come and go, without a resolution of his village’s land dispute in this mountainous reserve, formerly a communist stronghold. The current administration led by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has passed a community land-title law that, at least in theory, should strengthen their claim and that of millions of other landless villagers.

For this and other reasons, Keow has kept his distance from the red shirts, ignoring their slogans of economic justice. Indeed, he was happy to see the back of Thaksin in 2006. “We don’t like him. We helped to chase him away,” he says.

David Streckfuss, an independent American scholar in Khon Kaen, says the northeast, which borders Laos and Cambodia and boasts its own dialect and cuisine, has a history of political resistance, including a communist insurgency that peaked in the 1970s. He says Thai politics has long been a tussle between competing elites but may be moving into a new phase of grassroots participation.

If that happens, community-based networks in the northeast deserve at least some of the credit. “There’s quite a historical and social base to work from, and that provides a lot of the context for what we see today,” he says.

Source: http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacifi...ustice/(page)/2

[givenall]

Can somebody ask Thaksin supporter where is Thaksin now

[apex2000]

Can somebody ask Thaksin supporter where is Thaksin now

You seem to be missing a very important point. No one really minds (or cares?) where Khun Thaksin is:

“I think it’s moved beyond taking Thaksin back to Thailand. It’s become very clear during the past three years,” says Buapun Promphakping, a sociologist at the University of Khon Kaen.

Khun Buapan obviously understands the situation a lot better than you.

[shawndoc]

Khun Buapan obviously understands the situation a lot better than you.

But the rogue commander says he has his own authority stemming directly from Mr. Thaksin. He has the ear of the former prime minister, visiting him several times in Dubai and elsewhere since the military coup forced the leader from power in 2006, the major general and Army officers say.

"I won't leave until Mr. Thaksin tells me to," Maj. Gen. Khattiya adds."

I'd say Seh Daeng understands the situation a lot better than you.

http://www.thai360.com/fbb/showtopic.php?tid/537145/

He also said simliar yesterday.

[jayjay0]

The only people who ever made a issue of Thaksin return are the anti red shirts. It has never been a demand with the red shirts.

With all the dirty business the red shirts have done why do the anti red shirts have to bring Thaksin into the picture.

Personally I lost all respect for them when they invaded the hospital and then made light of it. They seem to take no rewsponsability for there actions and continue to put demands on others. If that is there idea of democracy ---- help us

[TheMac]

Thailand is facing a real struggle caused by the disparity of income and do need major social reforms. Unfortunately this need is exploited by all parties for their own benefit. Maybe time for the real "activist" protecting the poor to stand up?

[whybother]

The only people who ever made a issue of Thaksin return are the anti red shirts. It has never been a demand with the red shirts.

With all the dirty business the red shirts have done why do the anti red shirts have to bring Thaksin into the picture.

Personally I lost all respect for them when they invaded the hospital and then made light of it. They seem to take no rewsponsability for there actions and continue to put demands on others. If that is there idea of democracy ---- help us

The reds had pictures of Thaksin everywhere at the start of the rallies. Now they have dissappeared because he is such bad PR.

Thaksin brought himself into the picture every few days with his call in's.

Even just yesterday, some of the red leaders were saying that Thaksin had ordered that the leaders be changed.

The anti-red shirts aren't bringing Thaksin into the picture. The red shirts and Thaksin are.

[Canadianasia]

I just hear the red Shirts were un happy with todays result at DSi so they are now heading to Donmuang Airport area again for Block Road , no answer is any good for them ever, looks like they want a Fight

[steveromagnino]

The only people who ever made a issue of Thaksin return are the anti red shirts. It has never been a demand with the red shirts.

With all the dirty business the red shirts have done why do the anti red shirts have to bring Thaksin into the picture.

Personally I lost all respect for them when they invaded the hospital and then made light of it. They seem to take no rewsponsability for there actions and continue to put demands on others. If that is there idea of democracy ---- help us

If Thaksin is not an issue, then why is it that PT and the red shirts insist on constitutional reform themselves?

(hint - it is to undo the convictions, and get amnesty for Thaksin).

Given that Thaksin has been funding the movement and his phone ins and video link ups are the highlight of the rally when they are on, why do you need to ask 'why do the anti red shirts have to bring Thaksin into the picture' - the red shirt leaders do it themselves as often as they can!

[eljeque]

The only people who ever made a issue of Thaksin return are the anti red shirts. It has never been a demand with the red shirts.

With all the dirty business the red shirts have done why do the anti red shirts have to bring Thaksin into the picture.

Personally I lost all respect for them when they invaded the hospital and then made light of it. They seem to take no rewsponsability for there actions and continue to put demands on others. If that is there idea of democracy ---- help us

The reds had pictures of Thaksin everywhere at the start of the rallies. Now they have dissappeared because he is such bad PR.

Thaksin brought himself into the picture every few days with his call in's.

Even just yesterday, some of the red leaders were saying that Thaksin had ordered that the leaders be changed.

The anti-red shirts aren't bringing Thaksin into the picture. The red shirts and Thaksin are.

It is not the Red Shirts who brought Thaksin in, it is Thaksin who not only brought in the Red Shirts, but created them, and has been paying for them from the very beginning.

[parryhandy]

Absolute rubbish article. Whilst Thailand has a police force like it has, any real democratic upstarts can soon be put back in their box by men like Thaksin.

Edited May 11, 2010 by parryhandy

[thepodest]

Can somebody ask Thaksin supporter where is Thaksin now

You seem to be missing a very important point. No one really minds (or cares?) where Khun Thaksin is:

"I think it's moved beyond taking Thaksin back to Thailand. It's become very clear during the past three years," says Buapun Promphakping, a sociologist at the University of Khon Kaen.

Khun Buapan obviously understands the situation a lot better than you.

Really? I just looked at another source which said that Thaksin just appointed new leaders to the Red movement because the current one bowed to the PM's offer. The source I cannot post here since it is against TV's rules. message me if you want to see it.

[321niti123]

The only people who ever made a issue of Thaksin return are the anti red shirts. It has never been a demand with the red shirts.

With all the dirty business the red shirts have done why do the anti red shirts have to bring Thaksin into the picture.

Personally I lost all respect for them when they invaded the hospital and then made light of it. They seem to take no rewsponsability for there actions and continue to put demands on others. If that is there idea of democracy ---- help us

Not the policy but the underlying goal of the leaders at least (and maybe even some of the supporters)

[scorecard]

Thailand is facing a real struggle caused by the disparity of income and do need major social reforms. Unfortunately this need is exploited by all parties for their own benefit. Maybe time for the real "activist" protecting the poor to stand up?

"Maybe time for the real "activist" protecting the poor to stand up?"

Well somebody has! PM Abhsit has stated many time already (along with K. Korn) that there is a need to reduce the gap, improve education to provide better/wider work opportunities, better share of the wealth for all Thais, etc. And he and K. Korn announced some months ago overriding policy which must be adhered to during lower level policy development and implementation to achieve all of the above higher objectives, and there is action.

Some examples:

- Education. The PM several months ago appointed a non beaurocrat committee of highly capable people, with broad powers and resources, to quickly redevelop education methodology, etc. Why did he do it this way? Simple answer, he knew that directing the current (highly corrupt) boffins the the Ed. ministry would achieve nothing, he knew they they would simply ignore him same as they have done to several other PMs and Education Ministers (including Thaksin), so Abhisit went around them. A first for a Thai PM.

- Income for farmers. Under massive redevelopment whereby farmers get more cash and the whole picture is much more sustainable and lesss drain on state coffers.

- Start up of a 'old-age pension scheme'

And please note that he's not 'fixing' things by handouts/giveaways (a bag of rice, some telephone cards handed out just at the right time - in other words vote buying). He is developing and implementing changes which will bring solid and sustained change in income, sharing of the wealth, quality of living, justice for all etc.

And further, many people seem to have forgotten that:

- PM Abhisit instantly sacked one of his own ministers for corruption - again a first for a Thai PM.

- Stood up to the coalition leaders about corruption and demanded they take action - again a first for a Thai PM.

- Stood up to the disgraceful long-term 'secret' practices of promotion buying in the police. Again a first for a Thai PM.

Edited May 11, 2010 by scorecard

[stingray]

Thailand is facing a real struggle caused by the disparity of income and do need major social reforms. Unfortunately this need is exploited by all parties for their own benefit. Maybe time for the real "activist" protecting the poor to stand up?

"Maybe time for the real "activist" protecting the poor to stand up?"

Well somebody has! PM Abhsit has stated many time already (along with K. Korn) that there is a need to reduce the gap, improve education to provide better/wider work opportunities, better share of the wealth for all Thais, etc. And he and K. Korn announced some months ago overriding policy which must be adhered to during lower level policy development and implementation to achieve all of the above higher objectives, and there is action.

Some examples:

- Education. The PM several months ago appointed a non beaurocrat committee of highly capable people, with broad powers and resources, to quickly redevelop education methodology, etc. Why did he do it this way? Simple answer, he knew that directing the current (highly corrupt) boffins the the Ed. ministry would achieve nothing, he knew they they would simply ignore him same as they have done to several other PMs and Education Ministers (including Thaksin), so Abhisit went around them. A first for a Thai PM.

- Income for farmers. Under massive redevelopment whereby farmers get more cash and the whole picture is much more sustainable and lesss drain on state coffers.

- Start up of a 'old-age pension scheme'

And please note that he's not 'fixing' things by handouts/giveaways (a bag of rice, some telephone cards handed out just at the right time - in other words vote buying). He is developing and implementing changes which will bring solid and sustained change in income, sharing of the wealth, quality of living, justice for all etc.

And further, many people seem to have forgotten that:

- PM Abhisit instantly sacked one of his own ministers for corruption - again a first for a Thai PM.

- Stood up to the coalition leaders about corruption and demanded they take action - again a first for a Thai PM.

- Stood up to the disgraceful long-term 'secret' practices of promotion buying in the police. Again a first for a Thai PM.

The sad thing is: Generaly Asians never think about tomorrow. A free bag of rice or a free Telephone Card today, means more to them than a social security sheme, where they could benefit when they are older.

[yoshiwara]

Can somebody ask Thaksin supporter where is Thaksin now

You seem to be missing a very important point. No one really minds (or cares?) where Khun Thaksin is:

“I think it’s moved beyond taking Thaksin back to Thailand. It’s become very clear during the past three years,” says Buapun Promphakping, a sociologist at the University of Khon Kaen.

Khun Buapan obviously understands the situation a lot better than you.

That's right, as long as the phone line works.

Tap the phone line as the US did/does and the reds go potty.

It is an umbilical cord.

[somo]

Thailand is facing a real struggle caused by the disparity of income and do need major social reforms. Unfortunately this need is exploited by all parties for their own benefit. Maybe time for the real "activist" protecting the poor to stand up?

"Maybe time for the real "activist" protecting the poor to stand up?"

Well somebody has! PM Abhsit has stated many time already (along with K. Korn) that there is a need to reduce the gap, improve education to provide better/wider work opportunities, better share of the wealth for all Thais, etc. And he and K. Korn announced some months ago overriding policy which must be adhered to during lower level policy development and implementation to achieve all of the above higher objectives, and there is action.

Some examples:

- Education. The PM several months ago appointed a non beaurocrat committee of highly capable people, with broad powers and resources, to quickly redevelop education methodology, etc. Why did he do it this way? Simple answer, he knew that directing the current (highly corrupt) boffins the the Ed. ministry would achieve nothing, he knew they they would simply ignore him same as they have done to several other PMs and Education Ministers (including Thaksin), so Abhisit went around them. A first for a Thai PM.

- Income for farmers. Under massive redevelopment whereby farmers get more cash and the whole picture is much more sustainable and lesss drain on state coffers.

- Start up of a 'old-age pension scheme'

And please note that he's not 'fixing' things by handouts/giveaways (a bag of rice, some telephone cards handed out just at the right time - in other words vote buying). He is developing and implementing changes which will bring solid and sustained change in income, sharing of the wealth, quality of living, justice for all etc.

And further, many people seem to have forgotten that:

- PM Abhisit instantly sacked one of his own ministers for corruption - again a first for a Thai PM.

- Stood up to the coalition leaders about corruption and demanded they take action - again a first for a Thai PM.

- Stood up to the disgraceful long-term 'secret' practices of promotion buying in the police. Again a first for a Thai PM.

Abhisit is clearly well intentioned but it is all a bit too late and you could argue that he is only responding to pressure arising from the polical awareness of those who live outside Bangkok. For decades the Bangkok elite has run Thailand for their own benefit and didn't give a stuff about others. Now the poor have taken to the streets they now need to be pacified so of course they are thrown a bone or two. I doubt what he has done will be nearly enough and is just viewed by many on both sides as political neccessity not a true desire to help the poor. The red shirts want a lot more. They want a say in things!

Edited May 11, 2010 by somo

[whybother]

Abhisit is clearly well intentioned but it is all a bit too late and you could argue that he is only responding to pressure arising from the polical awareness of those who live outside Bangkok. For decades the Bangkok elite has run Thailand for their own benefit and didn't give a stuff about others. Now the poor have taken to the streets they now need to be pacified so of course they are thrown a bone or two. I doubt what he has done will be nearly enough and is just viewed by many on both sides as political neccessity not a true desire to help the poor. The red shirts want a lot more. They want a say in things!

For centuries, Thailand was solely a Kingdom, and it became a Constitutional Monarchy.

Things change.

Abhisit is helping things change with policies that should give long term results, not just cash handouts for short term popularity.

The poor have a voice. It's been heard. Something is being done about it.

Edited May 11, 2010 by whybother

[Lopburi99]

The sad thing is: Generaly Asians never think about tomorrow. A free bag of rice or a free Telephone Card today, means more to them than a social security sheme, where they could benefit when they are older.

This has boggled my mind since I first came here. If their new phone card still has some credit on it the next day, they feel ahead of the game. I don't dare give my gf more than 500 baht at one time because the next morning, "Darling I no money". She is a sweetie, but ....

[somo]

Abhisit is clearly well intentioned but it is all a bit too late and you could argue that he is only responding to pressure arising from the polical awareness of those who live outside Bangkok. For decades the Bangkok elite has run Thailand for their own benefit and didn't give a stuff about others. Now the poor have taken to the streets they now need to be pacified so of course they are thrown a bone or two. I doubt what he has done will be nearly enough and is just viewed by many on both sides as political neccessity not a true desire to help the poor. The red shirts want a lot more. They want a say in things!

For centuries, Thailand was solely a Kingdom, and it became a Constitutional Monarchy.

Things change.

Abhisit is helping things change with policies that should give long term results, not just cash handouts for short term popularity.

The poor have a voice. It's been heard. Something is being done about it.

Yes things are changing but only because protests forced the goverment to listen. Most change to any status quo needs outside force to instigate it. I think we are witnessing a structural change where it is no longer just the small number of Bangkoks elite that run everything. If they want political power in the future they will have to respect the voting power of the poor. They will no longer be able to rely on the military giving it to them or stealing it in the courts. The people will not tolerate a repeat of such episodes without a fight.

[misterjag]

It doesn't matter what Abhisit and the Democrats do in terms of policy. They achieved office through an election that was tainted by the coup and is illegitimate in the eyes of many Thai.

[whybother]

Abhisit is clearly well intentioned but it is all a bit too late and you could argue that he is only responding to pressure arising from the polical awareness of those who live outside Bangkok. For decades the Bangkok elite has run Thailand for their own benefit and didn't give a stuff about others. Now the poor have taken to the streets they now need to be pacified so of course they are thrown a bone or two. I doubt what he has done will be nearly enough and is just viewed by many on both sides as political neccessity not a true desire to help the poor. The red shirts want a lot more. They want a say in things!

For centuries, Thailand was solely a Kingdom, and it became a Constitutional Monarchy.

Things change.

Abhisit is helping things change with policies that should give long term results, not just cash handouts for short term popularity.

The poor have a voice. It's been heard. Something is being done about it.

Yes things are changing but only because protests forced the goverment to listen. Most change to any status quo needs outside force to instigate it. I think we are witnessing a structural change where it is no longer just the small number of Bangkoks elite that run everything. If they want political power in the future they will have to respect the voting power of the poor. They will no longer be able to rely on the military giving it to them or stealing it in the courts. The people will not tolerate a repeat of such episodes without a fight.

And you're ignoring all the rich pooyais and business people from the villages that have been holding back the poor for decades.

The government is listening. They were doing many of these things before teh protests started. Why can't the reds go home now?

[whybother]

It doesn't matter what Abhisit and the Democrats do in terms of policy. They achieved office through an election that was tainted by the coup and is illegitimate in the eyes of many Thai.

arrrrrgggghhhhh

If the election was tainted by the coup, why was the PPP government "legitimate in the eyes of many Thais".

Just because they don't understand, doesn't make them right.

[somo]

And you're ignoring all the rich pooyais and business people from the villages that have been holding back the poor for decades.

The government is listening. They were doing many of these things before teh protests started. Why can't the reds go home now?

Because the goverment have not given them what they really want - a full say in things. Making a conditional offer to hold elections means nothing when those conditions can be used to renage on the commitment.

It is common practice for an elite struggling to cling to power but throwing them a few bones has not been enough. The cat is out of the bag and a few treats are not going to make it go back in as it quite likes it outside.

Next thing is they might start forming unions and asking for a decent minimum wage. How scary is that!

[whybother]

And you're ignoring all the rich pooyais and business people from the villages that have been holding back the poor for decades.

The government is listening. They were doing many of these things before teh protests started. Why can't the reds go home now?

Because the goverment have not given them what they really want - a full say in things. Making a conditional offer to hold elections means nothing when those conditions can be used to renage on the commitment.

It is common practice for an elite struggling to cling to power but throwing them a few bones has not been enough. The cat is out of the bag and a few treats are not going to make it go back in as it quite likes it outside.

Next thing is they might start forming unions and asking for a decent minimum wage. How scary is that!

You're back to the original lies about this protest being all about the poor, aren't you?

So, you mean a minority (because not all the poor support the reds) gets to have a full say in things? The people that the reds elected get to have a say in things as their role of opposition in the parliament. A small minority of thugs do NOT get to say how the country should be run.

Edited May 11, 2010 by whybother

[animatic]

Khun Buapan obviously understands the situation a lot better than you.

But the rogue commander says he has his own authority stemming directly from Mr. Thaksin. He has the ear of the former prime minister, visiting him several times in Dubai and elsewhere since the military coup forced the leader from power in 2006, the major general and Army officers say.

"I won't leave until Mr. Thaksin tells me to," Maj. Gen. Khattiya adds."

I'd say Seh Daeng understands the situation a lot better than you.

http://www.thai360.com/fbb/showtopic.php?tid/537145/

He also said simliar yesterday.

Precisely.

No Thaksin = no faux peasant uprising.

[somo]

And you're ignoring all the rich pooyais and business people from the villages that have been holding back the poor for decades.

The government is listening. They were doing many of these things before teh protests started. Why can't the reds go home now?

Because the goverment have not given them what they really want - a full say in things. Making a conditional offer to hold elections means nothing when those conditions can be used to renage on the commitment.

It is common practice for an elite struggling to cling to power but throwing them a few bones has not been enough. The cat is out of the bag and a few treats are not going to make it go back in as it quite likes it outside.

Next thing is they might start forming unions and asking for a decent minimum wage. How scary is that!

You're back to the original lies about this protest being all about the poor, aren't you?

So, you mean a minority (because not all the poor support the reds) gets to have a full say in things? The people that the reds elected get to have a say in things as their role of opposition in the parliament. A small minority of thugs do NOT get to say how the country should be run.

The fact is the reds are mostly poor. As you say many poor are not reds and they can vote for whoever they want.

It is because they know they will lose any election that the goverment is clinging on. By saying he will call elections the PM realizes all is not right with how the existing gov. came to power but trying to trick the reds into leaving by imposing conditions on that promise was too obvious.

Thailand is a fledgling democracy and these protest are just a part of the journey to a fuller democracy. There are thugs on both sides which is usual in any conflict but the main body of the reds are indeed just simple poor folk who for one reason or another (it really doesn't matter) have realized they do have some political power and are determined to excercise it.

Of course there are power struggles amongst the leaders of both sides and they all have their own agendas but the mass of proteters are indeed poor people who feel they have been ignored for too long and on that they are absolutely right.

Of course the staus quo is in a flap at the prospect of losing control and are prepared to go to any lengths to hang in there.

They are fighting a losing battle. They may win this one but eventually they will be voted out. Postponing the inevitable is harming everyone but staus quos resist change by definition.

[SomTumTiger]

As we are seeing, the reds may be poor, and may think they are fighting for justice and equality. But the red leadership is fighting for Thaksin and Thaksin's money, and their own self interests. Nothing else.

[whybother]

The fact is the reds are mostly poor. As you say many poor are not reds and they can vote for whoever they want.

It is because they know they will lose any election that the goverment is clinging on. By saying he will call elections the PM realizes all is not right with how the existing gov. came to power but trying to trick the reds into leaving by imposing conditions on that promise was too obvious.

Thailand is a fledgling democracy and these protest are just a part of the journey to a fuller democracy. There are thugs on both sides which is usual in any conflict but the main body of the reds are indeed just simple poor folk who for one reason or another (it really doesn't matter) have realized they do have some political power and are determined to excercise it.

Of course there are power struggles amongst the leaders of both sides and they all have their own agendas but the mass of proteters are indeed poor people who feel they have been ignored for too long and on that they are absolutely right.

Of course the staus quo is in a flap at the prospect of losing control and are prepared to go to any lengths to hang in there.

They are fighting a losing battle. They may win this one but eventually they will be voted out. Postponing the inevitable is harming everyone but staus quos resist change by definition.

The reds are mostly poor, except for their very rich leaders.

The poor have been sucked in by the handouts of Thaksin, and the red propaganda. It's not that they can't think for themselves, it's that they have not been allowed to think for themselves.

The reds are minority. The poor of Thailand are not protesting. Just the poor of the red areas. Because they are the ones that have been conned.

Abhisit is not "clinging" to power. He has the support of the majority of elected MPs. Just because the MPs that the reds elected are in the minority, does not give the protesters the right to call for new elections.

I agree that the poor need help. But these protests are not the way to force it. They have made their point and they should go home.

[MaiChai]

I agree: absolutely rubbish article.

Thailand is modernising, which includes and benefits everyone. The government and those that are making lots of money from the economic success need to make sure everyone benefits. I think this is happening. The government helps the poor and the farmers in alot of ways. Maybe they can do more. However the route to doing more is through democratic means via the government, election process, debating and making laws in parliament, etc. You don't make these changes via violence, breaking the law and terrorism. Change is happening quickly in Thailand through the normal procedures; it does not need accelerating via demonstrations, breaking the law, violence, miss information via mass media, and turning Thais against Thais.

We all know this red shirt demonstration is being paid for by Taksin and has the sole purpose of getting Taksin back in the country and in power. He should have though about the consequences of his actions when he was in power. No one stays in power for ever. Alot of damage has been done to the country. I get fed up with the red shirt BS and propaganda. People have forgotten what morals are or the difference between right and wrong.