Thai Red-Shirts Vow To Rally Until Deputy PM Suthep Is Charged

[ronthai]

This is I think my third message on TV. After my first I got banned for 3 weeks because I mentioned K I do not care if again the same, I have been reading TV for more then 4 years and just signed up 4-5 weeks ago. When I read I have nothing to say because some-one else said it alrteady.

Probably just the same now, but after 25 holidaqys and now living in Thailand almost 7 years I think I am allowed to an apinion. I know wrong spelling because I am DUTCH.

The past few weeks/months is just reality what Thailand is!!! B..LL..S...TT

I have been since I singed up as ronthai everyday reading all number1, sub number sub-sub and sub-sub-sub forum.

I nevr read newspapers. All info I get is from TV and Thais in Pattaya I talk with.

I have no idea what I want to say because I am DRUNK.

NOW I remember, Thailand has been going down for years and this situation (friendly) is the kill zone.

Maybe TV will ban me now forever, so waht, I do not care, it is just the truth.

[Roadman]

Suthep, along with Anupong (although why is his feral still loose on parade at the lockdown with the blood of a high ranking Army officer on his hands ) and Khun Pinnochio have played this if not to the letter of all "sane" recognised international law, then very close to it. The Reds demands are now just p!ss taking to stall the Thai economy. Khun Pinnochio needs to accept that he has a lockdown looming in Bangkok's CBD as at 15th May the day the Reds said they would hand themselves in to the police. That date has been set by them, and at that date then Khun Pinnochio's offer of the roadmap and the elections is withdrawn and reset to late 2011. If they are still there at the stroke of midnight on that day then lock the place down. Sunday becomes removal day with warnings given that anyone within the lockdown area with a weapon of any sort will be immediately dealt to. The Army needs to understand that as well. Prime target for capture has to be Sae Duang. Remove the barb and the remaining fester can be treated. I hope the so called elite troops have been using the last few weeks wisely training hard tactics and testing command structure communications.

Poor attempt by the Reds to deflect the blood of Black Saturday from their loose feral to Suthep. And by still standing there on Sunday they become guilty of harbouring Sae Duang, and as such are part of a problem that requires a final solution.

[mausplan]

Give AV some credit , imagine you were the Thai PM , Doves tell you to do nothing, Hawks says shoot them all. Reds have a plan to force a fight to become victims and gain members through sympathy ( a standard Thaksin ploy)

AV has faced death threats to his family, a hostile and biased International press -BBC & CNN, a biased US diplomatic service-Ambassadors wife meets Potjaman, envoy meets Reds and so on. Throw in an Army commander who isn't and the Police commander who cant and by any standard it is a tough job

Through it all he has been consistent and honest in trying to end this without more loss of life. He came up with a plan and now sees it screwed most likely by the Red paymaster.

Later this week he may have to declare martial law to take action over the weekend. Armchair experts say do this and that but in your heart be honest and think what you would do and give the guy credit for his steadiness and strength of character. Thaksin cracked down on Ya Ba dealers for his own reasons and 2,500 + died. Imagine if Thaksin was in power and this was the Yellows at Ratchaprasong.

[Pawpcorn]

But bottom line the reds ARE asking for it.

No they arent.

You are.

And just what is the point of your hammer icon smashing that nail?

Like to break a few skulls yourself, is it?

I think it refers to the expression "hitting the nail on the head" as Jingthing's posts CONSISTENTLY do.

You ARE aware of the expression, aren't you? Do you understand the meaning????

In as Jinthing's posts are easily in the top ten list of concise, well-thought-out, insightful and wise posts... I think you might be wise to think a little bit about resorting to posting insulting posts here on ThaiVisa.

Personally insulting posts are simply low class behavior, and may be rewarded by suspension, if it bugs a moderator sufficiently... Lighten up!!!

Edited May 11, 2010 by Pawpcorn

[hextac]

But bottom line the reds ARE asking for it.

No they arent.

You are.

And just what is the point of your hammer icon smashing that nail?

Like to break a few skulls yourself, is it?

I think it refers to the expression "hitting the nail on the head" as Jingthing's posts CONSISTENTLY do.

You ARE aware of the expression, aren't you? Do you understand the meaning????

In as Jinthing's posts are easily in the top ten list of concise, well-thought-out, insightful and wise posts... I think you might be wise to think a little bit about resorting to posting insulting posts here on ThaiVisa.

Personally insulting posts are simply low class behavior, and may be rewarded by suspension, if it bugs a moderator sufficiently... Lighten up!!!

Get a room.

[ozzieman05]

So they are changing their tune. I guess all we have to do now is wait for the crackdown to finally begin.

What crackdown?

Just read this:

MCOTEnglishnews: CRES threatens to retake protest site at Ratchaprasong if Red Shirts don't end protest by Wednesday

THE NATION: PM: No more compromise, tomorrow is the deadline. via NNA

THE NATION: PM: One week is enough. no more talk.

and what will he do? No one will help him. The police don't care, the army don't care.

Law and order must be restored in Bkk

If the Police will not act then people need to be sacked until someone is capable of upholding the law

No police have the right to have an opinion that outways the laws of the land they have sworn to uphold

[thailien8]

Suthep, along with Anupong (although why is his feral still loose on parade at the lockdown with the blood of a high ranking Army officer on his hands ) and Khun Pinnochio have played this if not to the letter of all "sane" recognised international law, then very close to it. The Reds demands are now just p!ss taking to stall the Thai economy. Khun Pinnochio needs to accept that he has a lockdown looming in Bangkok's CBD as at 15th May the day the Reds said they would hand themselves in to the police. That date has been set by them, and at that date then Khun Pinnochio's offer of the roadmap and the elections is withdrawn and reset to late 2011. If they are still there at the stroke of midnight on that day then lock the place down. Sunday becomes removal day with warnings given that anyone within the lockdown area with a weapon of any sort will be immediately dealt to. The Army needs to understand that as well. Prime target for capture has to be Sae Duang. Remove the barb and the remaining fester can be treated. I hope the so called elite troops have been using the last few weeks wisely training hard tactics and testing command structure communications.

Poor attempt by the Reds to deflect the blood of Black Saturday from their loose feral to Suthep. And by still standing there on Sunday they become guilty of harbouring Sae Duang, and as such are part of a problem that requires a final solution.

Let's hope a "final solution" (where have I heard that term before?) will not be necessary.

Soldiers were removing those rolls of razor wire from the sidewalk in front of Times Square this afternoon, as I was headed in to shoot some pool at Hustlers. One soldier smiled at me and I thanked him for being there. I felt good.

A momentary burst of hope dazzled me. I thought maybe this could really portend the end of the red nightmare. It WAS supposed to happen today, wasn't it? ....after Suthep's face-losing visit to the relevant authorities, whereupon the reds would pack up and go home, as per their latest promise.

I had to go take a look. This could be historic. Pool can wait.

I got off Skytrain at Ratchdamri, and started walking thru the red encampment. As on my three previous treks thru the reds, the incessant blaring of Toxic hate speech from the unescapable banks of loudspeakers, was maddening. Earplugs in, I walked thru Lumpini to the tire 'n' stick barricade, that has been lengthened and strengthened, thanks to the diligent tactical military experience of Mad Bomber seh daeng, who is having the time of his life, as Toxin's new supreme red leader.

There was no getting across Rama IV to Subway home from Silom station, as I had done a month ago, before the grenade attacks on my precious and beloved Skytrain, so it was back thru redland to Ratchdamri BTS. On the sidewalk at the park's north end, an extensive display of photos celebrates what little red blood has so far been shed for Toxin so far. There was no sign of any move to decamp.

Not as many people were in the red encampment on Rajdamri as there were on my last visit, last month. More traffic was squeezing thru. My impression was that the peaceful reds at Ratchprasong are gradually leaving, and being supplanted by Toxin's private army behind their barricades at Lumpini. The over-amplified hate speech continued to attack my wounded ears all the while.

How utterly brainwashed must these poor redshirts be by now??? Nobody was smiling.

[ozzieman05]

"The UDD cannot accept the 'show' staged by the DSI and Mr Suthep" said Mr Nathawut,

Therefore, the UDD would not yet end the rally until Mr Suthep had surrendered to police and entered the judicial process, he added.

And if the police say he is not responsible

Then what

The protest goes on for another year or maybe 2 till ellections

Then they will find another reason to stay

[enginerevision]

It's the bloodlust of the redshirts I'm worried about.

once the shooting starts, once reds and soldiers see their comrades fall, then the real slaughter may well begin. What the armchair butchers here may not realize, is that real life violence is not a computer game.

Once the genie of violence is let out of the bottle, he doesnt willingly go back in.

its everyone's bloodlust we should be worried about.

But if they do not then the government can, should, and will remove them using the least force possible.

Aint gonna happen....

[ozzieman05]

those that want to fight can't cry foul if they get hurt or killed, it's their choice.

It rather sounds like these people getting hurt or killed is your choice too.

I can envision you in a former life, dressed in a toga, giving the gladiator the thumbs down.

To think that you are the product of 2,000 years of advancing civilization is, well, a sobering thought.

If you stand in the middle of the hyways

It is the trucks fault if he runs over you

You are using Red Shirt Logic

How many times have we heard

The red shirts are ready to die

[hextac]

those that want to fight can't cry foul if they get hurt or killed, it's their choice.

It rather sounds like these people getting hurt or killed is your choice too.

I can envision you in a former life, dressed in a toga, giving the gladiator the thumbs down.

To think that you are the product of 2,000 years of advancing civilization is, well, a sobering thought.

If you stand in the middle of the hyways

It is the trucks fault if he runs over you

You are using Red Shirt Logic

How many times have we heard

The red shirts are ready to die

Has anyone explained that to the children?

[ozzieman05]

^^ The army should clear the barricades at all the "fortress" entrances during daylight. And then retreat and wait. While doing this, the red thugs will show what they are really about, and will respond with petrol bombs, grenades and live fire. That will leave the army to go in there fully armed to clean out the armed protesters.

That's what I recommended earlier.

.... IF, someone in the red shirt protest site resorts to violence or guns, then it's no longer an innocent and must be dealt with whatever means necessary to stop that person from hurting others. Just as if someone pulls a gun on the street and starts shooting passersby the police is allowed to neutralize that person by any means.

I agree. All but a few of us anti-Red members are against all-out violence. Yet, the Reds have pushed themselves in to a corner - literally, and leave no reasonable way out for authorities, other than concerted crowd dispersal. Abhisit and his meek generals and do-nothing police allowed it to get to this point. Yet the onus falls on the Reds and their paymaster, who have had numerous golden opportunities to end this problem - yet continue to steer factions toward a bloody ending.

Message to the poor sops who say they can't leave the protest site because they haven't yet been paid and/or can't get 'permission' of their minders and/or can't get their ID cards returned: GET OUT NOW! What's more important, your life and limbs, or the little things mentioned in the previous sentence?

And anyone who is keeping a child within the barricades, I would personally smack 'em in the face and grab their child and take the kid somewhere safe.

Are there not laws in Thailand RE: endangering the life of a child

In Australia the parents would loose the rights to have these children

[ozzieman05]

What's with this persistent ID card myth? People lose them all the time. You go to the Amphur, get it replaced. (Get temporary slip first, etc.) Surely you don't think nobody in this country ever loses an ID card in the laundry or elsewhere?

Your comment is VERY disingenuous. It's about GETTING PAID! The ID cards were taken with the idea that they would returned when the job is finished and it is time to get paid. These poor people want their ID cards, yes. They also need to get paid. That was the deal.

I'm going to call bullshit on that one. If hundreds or thousands of people's ID cards would be held hostage or money supposed to be paid that isn't being paid, you'd see them demonstrating against the UDD leaders quite quickly. So your theory is bullshit, sorry.

You do not protest against a group that will break your arms and legs if you do

You just do what your told

[hextac]

^^ The army should clear the barricades at all the "fortress" entrances during daylight. And then retreat and wait. While doing this, the red thugs will show what they are really about, and will respond with petrol bombs, grenades and live fire. That will leave the army to go in there fully armed to clean out the armed protesters.

That's what I recommended earlier.

.... IF, someone in the red shirt protest site resorts to violence or guns, then it's no longer an innocent and must be dealt with whatever means necessary to stop that person from hurting others. Just as if someone pulls a gun on the street and starts shooting passersby the police is allowed to neutralize that person by any means.

I agree. All but a few of us anti-Red members are against all-out violence. Yet, the Reds have pushed themselves in to a corner - literally, and leave no reasonable way out for authorities, other than concerted crowd dispersal. Abhisit and his meek generals and do-nothing police allowed it to get to this point. Yet the onus falls on the Reds and their paymaster, who have had numerous golden opportunities to end this problem - yet continue to steer factions toward a bloody ending.

Message to the poor sops who say they can't leave the protest site because they haven't yet been paid and/or can't get 'permission' of their minders and/or can't get their ID cards returned: GET OUT NOW! What's more important, your life and limbs, or the little things mentioned in the previous sentence?

And anyone who is keeping a child within the barricades, I would personally smack 'em in the face and grab their child and take the kid somewhere safe.

Are there not laws in Thailand RE: endangering the life of a child

In Australia the parents would loose the rights to have these children

Are there not laws in Thailand about shooting unarmed civilians?

[hextac]

What's with this persistent ID card myth? People lose them all the time. You go to the Amphur, get it replaced. (Get temporary slip first, etc.) Surely you don't think nobody in this country ever loses an ID card in the laundry or elsewhere?

Your comment is VERY disingenuous. It's about GETTING PAID! The ID cards were taken with the idea that they would returned when the job is finished and it is time to get paid. These poor people want their ID cards, yes. They also need to get paid. That was the deal.

I'm going to call bullshit on that one. If hundreds or thousands of people's ID cards would be held hostage or money supposed to be paid that isn't being paid, you'd see them demonstrating against the UDD leaders quite quickly. So your theory is bullshit, sorry.

You do not protest against a group that will break your arms and legs if you do

You just do what your told

Given your argument, how could the attendance at Ratphrasong fluctuate so much?

[enginerevision]

Doesn't sound like " Democracy " isn't it ?

v

--

In the evening of 19 September 2006, while Thaksin was visiting New York City, US, to attend a United Nations summit and speak at the Council on Foreign Relations, the army took control of Bangkok. At Government House, some 50 soldiers ordered approximately 220 policemen in the complex to lay down their weapons.

Love it, how people still call him thugsin.. like Thaksin said:

I can't blaim Thai people, their political situation forces them to see fallls patriotism.

[Publicus]

Agreed the Red Shirts and Thaksin are cooking up one scheme after another to attempt to justify their neverending occupation of central Bangkok. Even if the government decided to make Suthep a scapegoat, which it certainly will not do, the Reds would then demand any one or more of a number of impossibilities, such as the government must round up all the soi dogs of the city, because the Reds aren't ever going to quit. The Red Shirts haven't any intention to wait any period of time for an election.

The soi dogs anyway are those who bark into mics on stage platforms...

All else aside, the fact is the cynical and cruel waiting game is just plain out of bounds.

[BigC]

So they are changing their tune. I guess all we have to do now is wait for the crackdown to finally begin.

What crackdown?

Just read this:

MCOTEnglishnews: CRES threatens to retake protest site at Ratchaprasong if Red Shirts don't end protest by Wednesday

THE NATION: PM: No more compromise, tomorrow is the deadline. via NNA

THE NATION: PM: One week is enough. no more talk.

and what will he do? No one will help him. The police don't care, the army don't care.

somebody cares as the country has come to a stand still because of it.

time for curfew and lock and ying! sorry but enugh is enough. It now or never !

[ozzieman05]

Will an election really solve the problems?

If the reds win an election won't the yellows be back on the streets doing the same thing within a year of the election?

Both sides are going to eventually force the military to take over.

Why have an election???

The red shirts are already running the country from the streets

[old wanderer]

I do not believe you will see a massive armed assault on the Red Shirt fort. Instead, (if they are smart), the will simply quarantine the area, TOTALLY.

No food, no water, electricity, no cars, no nothing. If some of the protesters wish to go home, arrest them 1st, book them and let them out on bail, until it is decided what penalties must be paid for this lawlessness.

For the residents, relocate them for a few days, until this work is finished.

Confiscate all vehicles withing the fort.

Give rewards to the soldiers or police that find weapons, (large enough that they are unlikely to be bribed).

There will be a core group that will not give up, (maybe 200) and will fight. Then is the time for the military to do what they are trained to do. When the fight is over, load up the remains and dump them at sea, and deny anyone died. This is a core group that need to be gone, or Thailand will suffer guerrilla warfare for some years to come.

I know some of you bleeding hearts will take issue with this, but sometime hard things are really necessary. Fortunately (for you and some of the militant protesters) I am not in a position to implement any of this, so it is just another "what if" thread here on TV.

[ozzieman05]

Are there not laws in Thailand RE: endangering the life of a child

In Australia the parents would loose the rights to have these children

Are there not laws in Thailand about shooting unarmed civilians?

==================================================================

If the unarmed person was visibly unarmed and not in a situation when it could not be known that he was unarmed

Or he was part of a mob firing at the police

In these circumstance he was in the wrong place at the wrong time

Saddly something he himself is responsible for

[BigC]

Are there not laws in Thailand RE: endangering the life of a child

In Australia the parents would loose the rights to have these children

Are there not laws in Thailand about shooting unarmed civilians?

u have a problem this is not australia. this is thailand and the soldiers are dealing with people that are armed with M16's and M79 grenade lauchers. we ae not talking about some people armed with sticks and battons. these people have serious fire power. now if the people want to danger there kids lives by putting them in the firing range. then the blame be on the parents not the soldiers who have to put the country first. The soldiers jobs are to protect the country at any cost.

as for shooting an armed " cilvilans" i think that by wearing the colour red. means that they are no longer civilans.

there again if the PM was more ruthless. then he know that the majority of the voters staying in one area and well. i did say ruthless. though i am not the PM and i have no voice to i am not insighting anything. just another what if

[4223rhodes]

Are there not laws in Thailand RE: endangering the life of a child

In Australia the parents would loose the rights to have these children

Are there not laws in Thailand about shooting unarmed civilians?

u have a problem this is not australia. this is thailand and the soldiers are dealing with people that are armed with M16's and M79 grenade lauchers. we ae not talking about some people armed with sticks and battons. these people have serious fire power. now if the people want to danger there kids lives by putting them in the firing range. then the blame be on the parents not the soldiers who have to put the country first. The soldiers jobs are to protect the country at any cost.

as for shooting an armed " cilvilans" i think that by wearing the colour red. means that they are no longer civilans.

there again if the PM was more ruthless. then he know that the majority of the voters staying in one area and well. i did say ruthless. though i am not the PM and i have no voice to i am not insighting anything. just another what if

Those wearing the color Red and believing in democracy are Thai civilians and the Yellow chant that they are not "people" is the reason that many in the civilized world are supporting them in their struggle.

[brahmburgers]

And just what is the point of your hammer icon smashing that nail?

There's an English expression, "hit the nail on the head" meaning: got it just right, and that's what jingthing is doing.

protesters around the world protest because they dont like something...issues must be addressed & solutions found. suppression is not a solution

The people and businesses of Bkk are being suppressed, and Thailand's economy is being bolloxed and its reputation is going from bad to worse - particularly as a tourist destination. Also, legislators can't get to other legislative business because the rallies take their complete focus, and immense amounts of resources (legal, security, hospital, etc) are and will have to be devoted to the rowdies in Bkk. You want to talk about suppression?

[Robby nz]

Are there not laws in Thailand about shooting unarmed civilians?

u have a problem this is not australia. this is thailand and the soldiers are dealing with people that are armed with M16's and M79 grenade lauchers. we ae not talking about some people armed with sticks and battons. these people have serious fire power. now if the people want to danger there kids lives by putting them in the firing range. then the blame be on the parents not the soldiers who have to put the country first. The soldiers jobs are to protect the country at any cost.

as for shooting an armed " cilvilans" i think that by wearing the colour red. means that they are no longer civilans.

there again if the PM was more ruthless. then he know that the majority of the voters staying in one area and well. i did say ruthless. though i am not the PM and i have no voice to i am not insighting anything. just another what if

Those wearing the color Red and believing in democracy are Thai civilians and the Yellow chant that they are not "people" is the reason that many in the civilized world are supporting them in their struggle.

Unfortunatly the red leaders have shown time and again that the dont believe in democracy or free speech... unless it is their words.

Here we go again if you dont support the reds you must be yellow.

Could you please let us know who the "many in the civilized world" are. dont tell us the US just because Campbell visited the reds lawyers, that dosnt wash.

And while you are at it: it was mentioned in another post that as well as Thaksin the reds were supported by a supermarket chain and a brewery if this is true could you please let us in on who they are so we can boycot them

[brahmburgers]

Enough with this 'unarmed & innocent civilian stuff' If there was one person in this imbroglio who fits that description, it was the woman who was killed on April 22 by a grenade launched from the Red camp. She was over a hundred meters away on a railroad ramp.

It's silly to say any remaining Reds are 'unarmed & innocent civilians'. Come on, Red supporters, we're not so easily duped by alarmist rhetoric. We can see the weapons and can gauge the bloodlust intentions of those who have barricaded themselves behind bamboo pikes, fuel-soaked tires, and razor wire. Desperate, confused, callous, elite-hating, perhaps, ....but give the 'unarmed and innocent' stuff a break.

[Who, me ?]

Enough with this 'unarmed & innocent civilian stuff' If there was one person in this imbroglio who fits that description, it was the woman who was killed on April 22 by a grenade launched from the Red camp. She was over a hundred meters away on a railroad ramp.

It's silly to say any remaining Reds are 'unarmed & innocent civilians'. Come on, Red supporters, we're not so easily duped by alarmist rhetoric. We can see the weapons and can gauge the bloodlust intentions of those who have barricaded themselves behind bamboo pikes, fuel-soaked tires, and razor wire. Desperate, confused, callous, elite-hating, perhaps, ....but give the 'unarmed and innocent' stuff a break.

REDS ARE NOT INNOCENT UNARMED CIVILIANS....Full stop

[old wanderer]

Enough with this 'unarmed & innocent civilian stuff' If there was one person in this imbroglio who fits that description, it was the woman who was killed on April 22 by a grenade launched from the Red camp. She was over a hundred meters away on a railroad ramp.

I will refresh you red supports of the facts on the women that was killed.

According to the statement of her daughter, she just felt sorry for the soldiers and took them some cold water and a flower to cheer them up.

When it was announced on the stage that one person was killed and a number wounded, these "poor Red Shirts" cheered and turned the music up.

[huanga]

As a conspiracy theorist, I would theorize that a good percentage of the funding behind the scene of the Reds came from Thaksin. I believe almost everyone would agree with that. Seh Daeng has also stated that Thaksin is one of the Reds' leaders and someone that can end the protest. We all also understand that the Abhisit's roadmap proposal and house dissolution are aimed towards ending the protest and possibly put this country on a right footing for the future. However, this proposal does not benefit, of course, Thaksin. We should also agree that Thaksin's ultimate goal is all about money and saving face.

All this charade with Reds agreeing to the roadmap but not willing to disperse is simply, IMHO, Thaksin's leverage and tactic (behind the scene) in trying to broker for the return of his money and possibly some face saving gesture. IMHO, this is not about democracy or helping the rural poor but one's greed!

Abhisit might be a puppet PM because he has no real control over the army or the police. But the real pawns are the rural poor and anyone that is a Red but not really fighting for the true cause of the Red's ideology. IMHO

[Steely Dan]

I do not believe you will see a massive armed assault on the Red Shirt fort. Instead, (if they are smart), the will simply quarantine the area, TOTALLY.

No food, no water, electricity, no cars, no nothing. If some of the protesters wish to go home, arrest them 1st, book them and let them out on bail, until it is decided what penalties must be paid for this lawlessness.

For the residents, relocate them for a few days, until this work is finished.

Confiscate all vehicles withing the fort.

Give rewards to the soldiers or police that find weapons, (large enough that they are unlikely to be bribed).

There will be a core group that will not give up, (maybe 200) and will fight. Then is the time for the military to do what they are trained to do. When the fight is over, load up the remains and dump them at sea, and deny anyone died. This is a core group that need to be gone, or Thailand will suffer guerrilla warfare for some years to come.

I know some of you bleeding hearts will take issue with this, but sometime hard things are really necessary. Fortunately (for you and some of the militant protesters) I am not in a position to implement any of this, so it is just another "what if" thread here on TV.

This would have been my plan too, though in light of this why on earth did they let the recent arrival of Khon Kaen Reds happen? Midnight tonight martial law should begin and the power should be cut. Then anyone with children should be given 24 hours to leave or be prosecuted as unfit guardians.

The election date should then be put back a year, when dealing with spoiled brats you have to treat them in an appropriate manner.