Thai Authorities To Sever Red-Shirts Supply Lines

[earthpig]

Funny to hear so many farang here condemn corruption and act so concerned about the poor of Thailand. If it wasn't for the corruption, the poor and the neglected most farang would not be here. They could say goodbye to low prices as well as the abundance of low priced working girls and girlfriends half their age and 1/10th their weight.

Well put.

And dont western politicians dont buy votes by all manner of government largess that can only be paid for by the children and grandchildren of today's recipients?

Say what you will--quite correctly i would hasten to add--about Thaksin and his vile corruption. Still he doesnt hold a candle to, say, Clinton's affordable housing vote buying program that set in chain the events that will, over time, cost trillions to savers the world over. Compared to western practitioners such as clinton, in fact thaksin was a rank amateur at POLITICAL corruption.

At least Thaksin had the nam jai to use some of his own money, no?

None of which is said to excuse Thaksin one little bit; only to reinforce jc's good point that condeming thai corruption should be done in a larger context, particularly when done by farangs.

[dhrobertson]

I'm an engineer here and not a day goes by without me being offered bribes and backhanders.

Consider yourself lucky you are the one being offered, not the one being asked to give!

Actually, there have been many occasions when I have walked rather than pay a back hander. I have done some work "pro bono" and I suppose that in itself is corrupt in a way.

I get short changed and generally ripped off continually,

You've been here ten years and are still getting ripped off?! How come?

What I really meant is they're still trying it on. Of course now I am looking for it and catch them out as a rule.

Even family are a bunch of liars and cheats if I am to be honest.

How sad. You seem to be making some bad choices.

Probably, But most of my friends and colleagues who married in to Thai families have had very similar experiences. I started to get suspicious when I paid for the mother in law to have her appendix out. For the third time. It is the complete lack of shame or embarassment when they're caught out that gets me. Believe me, it is completely endemic here from a very young age. What does Buddism have to say about lying, cheating and dishonesty in general I wonder?

Thanks for your concern! I am a bit exasperated actually.

I've added some comments in blue above

[brahmburgers]

The government should declare a general amnesty equally applicable to everyone from Abhisit all the way down to the bamboo spear totting Red.

Spoken like a true Red supporter. Amnesty is wrong for many reasons, not least because it let's murderers off the hook. Abhisit and Sutep have no fear of a judicial trial. They did the least they were expected/required to do, and that is try and disperse a violent mob which had taken over a portion of Bkk.

Part of their job description is to look out for the well-being of Thais, and that includes Bangkokians.

On the other hand, there could be a case against General Anupon who could be found guilty of dereliction of duty. And certainly more than a few police heads should roll, figuratively. Already the police head of Kon Kaen was dismissed, and that should just be the tip of the iceberg.

Here's the latest report card:

Gov't Leaders: Abhisit (too timid and not able to control security forces) D

General Anupon (wet noodle) E

Anupon's 2nd in command (is willing to do his job, but has been stymied) B

Police chiefs (either absent, inept or sleeping with the enemy) E

Red Leaders: Kwanchai Praipana (aborted mission at Don Muang and threatened Dr. Tul with bodily harm for attempting to campaign in Kon Kaen) E

Payap Pongat (stormed hospital) E

Kittaya "Sae Dang" (directed combat operations against CRES) E

Arisman, Natawut Saikua, Jatupon,

Koldaew, Dr. Weng (all mixed up alarmist losers) E

Weera (had a lick of sense, then disappeared) D

Thaksin (keeps shoveling money at a losing cause) E

[gemini81]

A helicopter has flown over the protest sight and:

I was in Rathchadamri when the helicopter flew overhead, witnessed fireworks being fired. Looks like the guys doing were having fun!

Does anyone other than me think this is gross stupidity?

How about if they were to hit the chopper and it came down in the middle of the city? "What fun"

Or if they were to set fire to their own tyre barrier. "More fun a BBQ but who would be the meat?"

I don't know who would be the meat, but I know one group who would eat it (hint: they like cockroaches, dog and field rats)

[jcbangkok]

A helicopter has flown over the protest sight and:

I was in Rathchadamri when the helicopter flew overhead, witnessed fireworks being fired. Looks like the guys doing were having fun!

Does anyone other than me think this is gross stupidity?

How about if they were to hit the chopper and it came down in the middle of the city? "What fun"

Or if they were to set fire to their own tyre barrier. "More fun a BBQ but who would be the meat?"

Sounds more like terrorist activities.... must be fake reds doing this or people the PM sent in to spy on the reds.

[OzMick]

Never served in the military, I guess. First or last light is the usual times to begin a military operation. In a combat zone, everybody stands to, ready to repel an attack at both times. Why? At dawn, non-military types still have their head down sleeping off hangovers, with minimum of awareness. Done well, you can have half the job done before the target realises what's happening. You also get the max. number of hours of preferred conditions (ie light or dark).

Right, and agreed. The key word however may be 'combat zone', above. While it will no doubt turn into a combat zone, it must be kept in mind that it's ALSO a populated civilian business and residential area. When turning that into a combat zone, the preference is likely to not endanger the general public more than necessary. If you start things during the day, with a possibility that it transforms into running battles in the general area, then relatively more people will get caught up in it.

(In addition, there would be more witnesses around, though in this day and age that hardly matters, with the big media presence and with just about anyone having a camera phone. Traditionally though i think this has been a factor on planning these things at night.)

Daylight has the distinct advantage that you (and independent witnesses) can see what's happening - much less confusion. OK, more civilians, but much easier to target those carrying weapons, and much harder for those with weapons to deny carrying and/or involvement. Video evidence also allows you to identify and apprehend those that slip the net at a later date, and this can be a big deterrent for those with a brain.

I was a witness to the Star Hotel riot (Newcastle, Oz, early 70's). Police got film from TV coverage and were making arrests (and getting convictions) years after the event.

[h90]

Anyone know if such a small rocket can harm a helicopter?

[elcent]

It is today when the final (s)election will be held and only 5 from 14 will be accepted.

Both Freedom House and U.N. Watch, two non-governmental organisations (NGOs) monitoring the upcoming elections scheduled to take place May 13, released a report last week critical of the non-competitive nature of the elections by the 192-member General Assembly.

The report said that of the 14 candidates, only five, by their reckoning, are considered to be "qualified" to serve on the Council: Poland, Spain, Switzerland, Guatemala and the Maldives.

But the report also identified five candidates as having "questionable" human rights records: Moldova, Ecuador, Uganda, Libya and Thailand.

Hilel Neuer, executive director of U.N. Watch, went one step further. He has urged delegates "not to write in the name of Libya or other unqualified candidates when filling out the four African slots on their secret ballot".

"They should instead write in the names of African countries with far greater qualifications," he said.

[Herm]

And only a general amnesty will allow that to happen

you forgot to add, until the next time. A general amnesty is a green light to rinse and repeat.

Amnesty???!?!?!?!??!

Are you saying this is not about democracy and holding elections?

Certainly the red mob leaders are not concerned with criminal charges. This would be impossible because nobody would say on a daily basis that "their" people are willing to die for democracy at the hands of soldiers but then not be willing to face criminal charges.

Just look at Thaksin. A lot of people would say he is a coward and punk for running away, from a 2-year sentence that would have almost surely been suspended if he stuck around, but the truth is he went overseas to fight for democracy on a global basis.

I only hope for your sake that the above is mend in a very sarcastic way .... otherwise you should really have your head examined

[Neurath]

A helicopter has flown over the protest sight and:

I was in Rathchadamri when the helicopter flew overhead, witnessed fireworks being fired. Looks like the guys doing were having fun!

Does anyone other than me think this is gross stupidity?

How about if they were to hit the chopper and it came down in the middle of the city? "What fun"

Or if they were to set fire to their own tyre barrier. "More fun a BBQ but who would be the meat?"

Sounds more like terrorist activities.... must be fake reds doing this or people the PM sent in to spy on the reds.

Guy in Australia shone one of those pencil lasers at an airliner recently. Got 5 years in clink.

[dhrobertson]

From my experience, everyone here is corrupt.

In over ten years, I have never had a staight deal. Not once.

Awful place. No natural sence of right and wrong.

Yes , what you say is entirely true .

I was considering about how being brought up culturally in a Christian environment has such a powerful effect on one's moral compass.

Two wrongs don't make a right

Turn the other cheek

Do unto others as you would have others do unto you

Camels and eyes of needles and the such

If I have heard one Thai kid say "but he did it too" as a justification, I have heard it a million times. Of course, the reds are using this against the yellows, and it appears to in some way be acceptable as an excuse. Why do people continue to drive on the wrong side of the road on motor cycles here? Because everyone else does.

All of these small daily mantras that are drummed into us as kids in Europe have a major effect on our moral compass. Last time I looked, Thailand is Buddhist, so don't be surprised if the sense of fairplay is a long way away from back home. Morals are not the same here.

Yes indeed.

I would be interested to know from a Thai contributor if morals are taught in school? What is the buddist line?

[SomTumTiger]

CRES to Surround Red-shirts This Evening, No Live Bullet to Be Used

UPDATE : 13 May 2010

The Center for Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES) has announced that to encourage the protesters to disperse armored vehicles will be used to surround the anti-government red-shirt protesters this evening. No live bullet will be used.

from: http://www.tannetwork.tv/tan/ViewData.aspx?DataID=1029083

maybe happening the same as blocking water and electric since midnight.

This just corrected this to say "Live Bullets will be used". If the Red terrorists fire on them, they should be taken down, post haste. Clear the bastards out and throw the leaders in the Bangkok Hilton.

[OzMick]

Anyone know if such a small rocket can harm a helicopter?

You'd have to be a mug to take the odds! Like pissing on a bushfire.

[jcbangkok]

It is today when the final (s)election will be held and only 5 from 14 will be accepted.

Both Freedom House and U.N. Watch, two non-governmental organisations (NGOs) monitoring the upcoming elections scheduled to take place May 13, released a report last week critical of the non-competitive nature of the elections by the 192-member General Assembly.

The report said that of the 14 candidates, only five, by their reckoning, are considered to be "qualified" to serve on the Council: Poland, Spain, Switzerland, Guatemala and the Maldives.

But the report also identified five candidates as having "questionable" human rights records: Moldova, Ecuador, Uganda, Libya and Thailand.

Hilel Neuer, executive director of U.N. Watch, went one step further. He has urged delegates "not to write in the name of Libya or other unqualified candidates when filling out the four African slots on their secret ballot".

"They should instead write in the names of African countries with far greater qualifications," he said.

In other words my original post, stating that it was an untruth that Thailand had been booted, was in fact factual.

Also, you left out ...

"The Asian states have four candidates (Malaysia, Maldives, Qatar and Thailand) for four (open ) seats ..."

Edited May 13, 2010 by jcbangkok

[gemini81]

Anyone know if such a small rocket can harm a helicopter?

well, it's not an Apache of course! So one accurate shot well placed by an AK or M 16 can take it down (Vietnam War being an example) even any gun with some range on it. And I doubt the glass on the helicopter is bulletproof either.

[dhrobertson]

"Abhisit is about as good a politician as Thailand could ever hope to get," - this HAS to be the most pessimistic comment on ALL of Thaivisa?

Well, I for one really do believe the man to be "a good man". Maybe he could become a politician in the UK?

Sadly, he seems to be the wrong man for the job at this time.

Looks to me like a benevolent dictatorship a la Singapore would be best right now........

[elcent]

It is today when the final (s)election will be held and only 5 from 14 will be accepted.

Both Freedom House and U.N. Watch, two non-governmental organisations (NGOs) monitoring the upcoming elections scheduled to take place May 13, released a report last week critical of the non-competitive nature of the elections by the 192-member General Assembly.

The report said that of the 14 candidates, only five, by their reckoning, are considered to be "qualified" to serve on the Council: Poland, Spain, Switzerland, Guatemala and the Maldives.

But the report also identified five candidates as having "questionable" human rights records: Moldova, Ecuador, Uganda, Libya and Thailand.

Hilel Neuer, executive director of U.N. Watch, went one step further. He has urged delegates "not to write in the name of Libya or other unqualified candidates when filling out the four African slots on their secret ballot".

"They should instead write in the names of African countries with far greater qualifications," he said.

In other words my original post, stating that it was an untruth that Thailand had been booted, was in fact factual.

That what will happen today is just formal. Informally, the countries in question were denied to join by simply looking up their standards and records. Maybe they didn't get the boot(literally) but did block themselves.

[earthpig]

Unless and until the people committing these atrocities against the Thais agree to act like adults and not like children, we need military rule.

Ooops. looks like gregb let slip his real agenda.

We did recently have military rule, remember? Oh, perhaps that was before gregb had ever heard of thailand...

Military rule was so embarrasing that even the generals now are horrified at the idea.

[SomTumTiger]

Wrath of God about to descend on the Red Shirts this evening. Good night to stay home all. For the Reds - they best get the hel_l out of Dodge.

[jcbangkok]

Anyone know if such a small rocket can harm a helicopter?

About the same as pointing a laser pointer at a 747 airplane but unless you want to risk a heck of a lot of time behind bars, it is not something you want to do .. at least in the US.

[hegenious]

update on TAN:

CORRECTION: CRES to Surround Red-shirts This Evening, Live Bullets to Be Used

UPDATE : 13 May 2010

The Center for Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES) has announced that to encourage the protesters to disperse armored vehicles will be used to surround the anti-government red-shirt protesters this evening. Live bullets will be used.

Edited May 13, 2010 by hegenious

[way2muchcoffee]

Wrath of God about to descend on the Red Shirts this evening. Good night to stay home all. For the Reds - they best get the hel_l out of Dodge.

Must approach this with caution. We've heard the same far too many times. Must suspend belief until it actually happens.

Some Americans might remember the old TV show 'Sanford and Son'. I'm getting images in my head of Redd Foxx with one hand clutched over heart and the other hand flailing about, "It's the big one!".

Edited May 13, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[h90]

Anyone know if such a small rocket can harm a helicopter?

well, it's not an Apache of course! So one accurate shot well placed by an AK or M 16 can take it down (Vietnam War being an example) even any gun with some range on it. And I doubt the glass on the helicopter is bulletproof either.

yes the gun...but the simple rockets?

[SomTumTiger]

Wrath of God about to descend on the Red Shirts this evening. Good night to stay home all. For the Reds - they best get the hel_l out of Dodge.

Must approach this with caution. We've heard the same far too many times. Must suspend belief until it actually happens.

I would say discretion is the better part of valor. I'll stay home. You do what you want and God Bless!

[daboyz1]

"Abhisit is about as good a politician as Thailand could ever hope to get," - this HAS to be the most pessimistic comment on ALL of Thaivisa?

Well, I for one really do believe the man to be "a good man". Maybe he could become a politician in the UK?

Sadly, he seems to be the wrong man for the job at this time.

Looks to me like a benevolent dictatorship a la Singapore would be best right now........

Never thought about that. You gotta admit getting Malaysians, Chinese and Indians to all get along seemed to work out quite well for them. I don't personally believe in coups or forced living conditions. (Singapore required that all public housing be 25% Malay, 25% hindu, and 50% chinese based on the population %) the govt. forced them to get along. They all seem to get along quite well.

Not sure if it would work here, but can't be much worse than what is going on.

[OzMick]

you forgot to add, until the next time.

No i didnt.

I specifically said that after a new free and fair election--which cant happen with Red leaders in jail--a new government, untainted by thaksin or coup, would have the legitimacy to use force against red or yellows if they repeat their unlawful behaviours.

Order must be restored. But by a governmet perceived by most of the people of thailand--not to be confused with farang posters on TV--as legitimate.

The wisdom of the current PM and the generals is that by their actions they show that they understand most of this. No doubt there is huge political opposition to a general amnesty; the Red revolt has kicked some very powerful interests where it hurts most.

That's the problem the PM now has to overcome.

Why can't we have a free and fair election with the red leaders in jail? They are the military wing of the PTP, not the political arm. do you expect sitting members to surrender their seats to Arisman and the ilk? PTP and the reds hold as many seats now as they are ever likely to get, so where will Weng stand? BKK is not likely to swing red. Seh Daeng is going up against a wall. The rest go to jail until everyone has forgotten their names.

[way2muchcoffee]

Wrath of God about to descend on the Red Shirts this evening. Good night to stay home all. For the Reds - they best get the hel_l out of Dodge.

Must approach this with caution. We've heard the same far too many times. Must suspend belief until it actually happens.

I would say discretion is the better part of valor. I'll stay home. You do what you want and God Bless!

I'm heading to Rama III to see Iron Man 2. I live just off Sathorn.

[Samuian]

Yep, it's about time - tomorrow is the Ploughing Ceremony!

Let's hope it all disperses peacefully and not ONE drop of blood is spilled - as it would be for absolutely NOTHING!

[brahmburgers]

Anyone know if such a small rocket can harm a helicopter?

You'd have to be a mug to take the odds! Like pissing on a bushfire.

....or pissing on downed electric lines while standing in a puddle.

Seriously though, a SAM (surface to air missile) has a good chance of taking down a military copter from a ground troop. Any decent military copter built in the past 25 years should be able to handle all sorts of small arms fire and keep flying.

There's a story of a US military plane flying up a valley during the Vietnam war, and hundreds, maybe thousands of VC soldiers were firing at it. At one point, a 5 inch round fired from a cannon below, went right by one of the wings, clearly seen by the pilot, as if in slow motion (as he described it).

There are so many tools and tactics available for crowd dispersment nowadays. Of course, I wouldn't expect Thai authorities to be at the vanguard of what's available - as they're usually one to three decades behind the west on such things. Best is to use tactics/tools in combination - though nothing effective can be done if troops are half-hearted and led by inept sops.

[jcbangkok]

It is today when the final (s)election will be held and only 5 from 14 will be accepted.

Both Freedom House and U.N. Watch, two non-governmental organisations (NGOs) monitoring the upcoming elections scheduled to take place May 13, released a report last week critical of the non-competitive nature of the elections by the 192-member General Assembly.

The report said that of the 14 candidates, only five, by their reckoning, are considered to be "qualified" to serve on the Council: Poland, Spain, Switzerland, Guatemala and the Maldives.

But the report also identified five candidates as having "questionable" human rights records: Moldova, Ecuador, Uganda, Libya and Thailand.

Hilel Neuer, executive director of U.N. Watch, went one step further. He has urged delegates "not to write in the name of Libya or other unqualified candidates when filling out the four African slots on their secret ballot".

"They should instead write in the names of African countries with far greater qualifications," he said.

In other words my original post, stating that it was an untruth that Thailand had been booted, was in fact factual.

That what will happen today is just formal. Informally, the countries in question were denied to join by simply looking up their standards and records. Maybe they didn't get the boot(literally) but did block themselves.

LMAO