More Bloodshed In Bangkok As Red Siege Continues

[whiterussian]

Hang on a sec, you boys say that if I critisise the leadership of Mr A, and this botched attempt to clear the shopping malls of Bangkok that I am a troll? and a wanke_r, just here to wind people up?

My angle is I want to see the yellows and PAD squirm when they lose a general election. That is what I would wish for the reds. An election soon. It might stop all this <deleted>!! if the reds lose, great, if they win.. f**king great. I can only hope for a landslide for one side or the other.

Sorry. I must be a troll for wanting the military to stay the <deleted> out of politics! They have no place in this day and age. They have to learn Thaksins game instead.

Edited May 16, 2010 by whiterussian

[Thai at Heart]

The soldiers seemed constantly caught off-balance by agitators showing a grasp of insurgency that may well derive from their time as army conscripts. They shot M-79 grenades, which can kill within five yards. They aimed slingshots with deadly accuracy. They let off makeshift cannons. Some blazed away with pistols. A Buddhist monk was seen to launch a glowing fire-lantern, normally used in religious rites, into the sky to ward off helicopters. Others fired home-made rockets at the choppers.The wildness was fuelled by more than fury. Crates of Red Bull, the energy drink, were by a barricade where edgy soldiers fingered their assault rifles. A mixture of cheap whiskey and amphetamines was said to be keeping many of their enemies on their toes.

i don't understand. this is saying the former conscripts learned something the current conscripts have not been taught?

they teach insurgency in basic training?

thai army armed with slingshots?

thai army buys makeshift cannon from us defense contractors?

army conscripts taught to blaze away with pistols?

but they only have slingshots?

The quote is about the reds - a bit confused but ok - it is a known fact that a lot of the reds, if not most use Ja baa - every drug dealer must have rushed to the scene once it started to make a killing. The problem with amphetamines is that they give them a lot of energy and cause severe paranoia and delusions as can also be seen with the red supporters on TV. Another side effect is aggression.

Basically the army has to deal with total maniacs

Every Issaner farmer knows the virtue of chewing the leaves of Coca.... they do not need amphetamines

Whilst it makes for a dramatic line, I think Kratom leaves or betel nut would be far more likely.

We aren't living in Colombia.

[ChouDoufu]

sorry, my post was not clear enough. i was referring to this portion:

"The soldiers seemed constantly caught off-balance by agitators showing a grasp of insurgency that may well derive from their time as army conscripts. They shot M-79 grenades, which can kill within five yards. They aimed slingshots with deadly accuracy. They let off makeshift cannons. Some blazed away with pistols."

on one side, a military which is accused of being inept.

on the other, former army conscripts using their former training against the current inept military.

i'll try to be clearer on future posts.

perhaps i'll sign up for that TEFL course.

thanks for the link.

[gemini81]

i am sorry but you have::

this syndrome manifests itself by aggressively, demeaning anyone who dares to speak badly of a red shirt supporter

it can be cured by a short posting holiday from Thai Visa to give you some time to practice courtesy to other posters

i am sure you have probably had one period of enforced rehab before, but multiple doses are often required for serious sufferers

sadly for some, red head syndrome can be a terminal disease

You learn fast. Same approach as the junta.

Courtesy? I beg your forgiveness oh junta supporter. forgive me. Oh the shame. You boys have stockholm syndrome.

Every time you open your mouth you lose more respect on here, White Russian.

Why don't you go inside the red zone and take one for Thaksin if you're such a die hard supporter and sympathizer? Why not?

fair enough question but would guess the answer is because trolling on here is much more fun for the likes of whiterussian, kissdani, red parrot.....with all of the info out there now about what these thugs are up to, the undeniable TRUTH that's as plain as day to anyone with half a brain the only conclusion I can come up with is that these pathetic little wanke_rs enjoy winding everyone up.

I made the same observation, and the number of posts by redparrot is astronomical for the short amount of time for being a member on here. sounds like a group of unemployed keyboard warrior wan_ers to me too, trying to stir up trouble for fun, like seh daeng. those folks always pay a price sooner or later dont they?

speaking of which, did anyone observe the news yesterday? On the thai news, Dubai and Monte.' have not welcomed Thaksin back, that they consider him a bad image to them. the news said they will not let him enter on any of his visas. hope thats true and not just talk

[Netfan]

This is the demonstration of what I have stated already several times : Militias are unacceptable in democratic Countries: it brings the level of violence to the highest during social unrests. More it can jeopardise the future of a Country. And if my numerous american friend of this forum continue to think about more tough and military actions, just remember Mogadishio, Somalia.... Militias are a Cancer (Yellows, Nedwin, Pattayas, Ronin...any militia)

In case of crushing the reds, you should see the consequences on the economy: Spain during Franco period, has been sulked during years in spite marketing efforts. most of europeans avoiding Spain as tourist destination and spanish products.

Anything which can bring Parties to the table of negotiation without conditions is welcome.

Your comparison to Mogadishu is a good one. What we have in Bangkok now is not a group of "protesters", it is a hired well-armed gang, much like the war lords have used to control districts in Mogadishu. Would you say that negotiation without conditions would be a sensible way to deal with the war-lords? For the reds to demand negotiations without conditions at this point, with their only bargaining chip the threat of looting and burning, is not reasonable. The reds need to agree to dis-arm, the leaders turn themselves in as promised, the gangs disperse (the mc taxis will be needed on Monday), and the rest go home, wherever that may be. Then talks can begin on whether early elections can be held.

[mccw]

i wonder if "londonthai" is the same that idiot bbc interviewed helping the reds yesterday

[chrislarsson]

savage. Abhisit is now a world class dictator. Congratulations!

And what is this supposed to show?? some criminals hiding behind barricades that is all

What is shows is the governments claims that "we only shoot in self defence" are totally bogus lies.. As does the CNN footage..

Which then makes his "only trust the official sources, we must maintain the moral high ground" type statements also laughable..

Its currently open season on anything that moves, protesters, journos, medics, etc.. Lets forget this 'only in self defence' PR BS..

And what are these guys doing? Going for a walk? NO. They are attacking the army. The army are responding.

You can find the full story behind this video here:

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2...e-killing-zone/

[kissdani]

Do you notice Wayne Hay is wearing a bullet proof vest and a helment.

The journalist shot yesterday was wearing jeans and a black shirt, and was running between the reds and army shooting each other. Idiot.

It is now part of the job of the security forces to shot at journalists who are not wearing "a bullet proof vest and a helment[sic]"?

The Apologists of this violent crackdown becoming more and more pathetic.

Would you say to him face to face that he is an idiot or are just anotheranonymous hiding behind his keyboard seeding hate?

How's life as a troll? having fun while others are being held hostage by these lunatics?

Canadian journalists holding others at hostage in Bangkok? Who is the troll here or should i use the i... word of whybothers comment?

[iciparis]

It would be nice to have a real TV news station in Bkk.

You mean it would be nice if the reds didn't break the CCTV cams and we could broadcast the livestreaming on-line??

How many browsers would you open??

If looking for blood of sensation is your aim, get out and join, otherways just rely on internet and bad journalism unfortunatly

Some of us live and work in this mess... it's not a question of some voyeuristic blood-lust. It's a bit more to do with...How do I get to work safely, how do kids get to school safely? Life isn't stopping here because of this mess, it continues to go on.

Know what you mean, do not know if daughter can go to school tomorrow as well, but better stay safe and stay home, I will although I need to go to phatunam, where I have my company.

[Britannia]

The soldiers seemed constantly caught off-balance by agitators showing a grasp of insurgency that may well derive from their time as army conscripts. They shot M-79 grenades, which can kill within five yards. They aimed slingshots with deadly accuracy. They let off makeshift cannons. Some blazed away with pistols. A Buddhist monk was seen to launch a glowing fire-lantern, normally used in religious rites, into the sky to ward off helicopters. Others fired home-made rockets at the choppers.The wildness was fuelled by more than fury. Crates of Red Bull, the energy drink, were by a barricade where edgy soldiers fingered their assault rifles. A mixture of cheap whiskey and amphetamines was said to be keeping many of their enemies on their toes.

i don't understand. this is saying the former conscripts learned something the current conscripts have not been taught?

they teach insurgency in basic training?

thai army armed with slingshots?

thai army buys makeshift cannon from us defense contractors?

army conscripts taught to blaze away with pistols?

but they only have slingshots?

The quote is about the reds - a bit confused but ok - it is a known fact that a lot of the reds, if not most use Ja baa - every drug dealer must have rushed to the scene once it started to make a killing. The problem with amphetamines is that they give them a lot of energy and cause severe paranoia and delusions as can also be seen with the red supporters on TV. Another side effect is aggression.

Basically the army has to deal with total maniacs

Using ja ba or whatever it’s called? Who has not? that is the biggest problem in the World today. (Drugs of any kind) Even the Great USA President Clinton confessed, to experimenting or taking such substances. Tell me a leader that has not and I’ll laugh at your ignorance. My point is don’t try to make scumbags out of ignorant people, when the educated and high society is equally guilty (Discrimination is good when applied correctly)

[lannarebirth]

This is the demonstration of what I have stated already several times : Militias are unacceptable in democratic Countries: it brings the level of violence to the highest during social unrests. More it can jeopardise the future of a Country. And if my numerous american friend of this forum continue to think about more tough and military actions, just remember Mogadishio, Somalia.... Militias are a Cancer (Yellows, Nedwin, Pattayas, Ronin...any militia)

In case of crushing the reds, you should see the consequences on the economy: Spain during Franco period, has been sulked during years in spite marketing efforts. most of europeans avoiding Spain as tourist destination and spanish products.

Anything which can bring Parties to the table of negotiation without conditions is welcome.

The violence that you see as part of the "negotiations" will end. Thais are not as sophisticated as yourself and will be horrified by it. Then progress can be made.

[BKjohn]

Hang on a sec, you boys say that if I critisise the leadership of Mr A, and this botched attempt to clear the shopping malls of Bangkok that I am a troll? and a wanke_r, just here to wind people up?

My angle is I want to see the yellows and PAD squirm when they lose a general election. That is what I would wish for the reds. An election soon. It might stop all this <deleted>!! if the reds lose, great, if they win.. f**king great. I can only hope for a landslide for one side of the other.

Sorry. I must be a troll.

YEP, you are 100% correct with your last sentence but than look upon it like this "realization is the first step to recovery"

It may have escaped you attention, they were offered elections in November - 6 months from now but did not accept the offer and came up with their ridiculous demands

May be a bit further down your road of recovery you realize that this wasn't about elections which the reds well know they would loose anyway, but one man's attempt at a coup

Now have some more of your medication

[Jerrytheyoung]

This is the demonstration of what I have stated already several times : Militias are unacceptable in democratic Countries: it brings the level of violence to the highest during social unrests. More it can jeopardise the future of a Country. And if my numerous american friend of this forum continue to think about more tough and military actions, just remember Mogadishio, Somalia.... Militias are a Cancer (Yellows, Nedwin, Pattayas, Ronin...any militia)

In case of crushing the reds, you should see the consequences on the economy: Spain during Franco period, has been sulked during years in spite marketing efforts. most of europeans avoiding Spain as tourist destination and spanish products.

Anything which can bring Parties to the table of negotiation without conditions is welcome.

There is one problem you do not understand:

The red leaders do not want to negotiate - they want the government to step down which would mean they succeeded with their / Thaksins coup attempt - they had their chance already

The economic damage has already been done thanks to the reds and only a crackdown, ending this anarchy quickly may offer a slight chance to limit the economic damage

Now don't jump - I would love to see the reds go home peacefully, but as their leaders repeat ad nausea that ain't going to happen unless....

You see only the short term effect on the economy. The sulking of Spain and spanish products has lasted more than 40 years. Half of Europe (I cannot talk for other Countries- because I have not the knowledge) will sulk Thailand and Thai products if there is a tough crushing action on the Red Shirts.

[mccw]

Hang on a sec, you boys say that if I critisise the leadership of Mr A, and this botched attempt to clear the shopping malls of Bangkok that I am a troll? and a wanke_r, just here to wind people up?

My angle is I want to see the yellows and PAD squirm when they lose a general election. That is what I would wish for the reds. An election soon. It might stop all this <deleted>!! if the reds lose, great, if they win.. f**king great. I can only hope for a landslide for one side or the other.

Sorry. I must be a troll for wanting the military to stay the <deleted> out of politics! They have no place in this day and age. They have to learn Thaksins game instead.

mmm yes rich goons with private millitias tearing the country appart rather than an armed forces which maintains order, great idea

[whybother]

Canadian journalists holding others at hostage in Bangkok? Who is the troll here or should i use the i... word of whybothers comment?

What you should do is use a bit of common sense.

A reporter goes in between two groups shooting at each other UNPROTECTED.

He gets shot. No one knows who shot him.

He should have worn protection.

[kissdani]

Thai army snipers in action

[lannarebirth]

"Stop shooting, retreat and we can then negotiate," Natthawut said. Asked by a journalist why he was not ordering the red shirts to stop attacking first, he angrily retorted: "The killers must stop. You cannot possibly expect those being hunted to stop killing. It's as if the red shirts have been abandoned alone in the world."

Derrr, do you think that might be because the redshirts are in the minority and because of the actions they have taken???

The reality is the Red Shirts have the backing of the rural population.

Probably 80% of Thai's support the revolution.

That's a fact!

I'd like to know why my previous post citing this board member as a liar was removed. Is it TV policy to allow the posting of lies but not to allow pointing out the fact what is posted is a lie? I hate liars.

[thepodest]

Armed men in black in action

Edited May 16, 2010 by thepodest

[mccw]

You see only the short term effect on the economy. The sulking of Spain and spanish products has lasted more than 40 years. Half of Europe (I cannot talk for other Countries- because I have not the knowledge) will sulk Thailand and Thai products if there is a tough crushing action on the Red Shirts.

no. bussiness wants to be able to get on with business. if this is seen though firmly, it will b the best thing for thailand.

[ChouDoufu]

this doesn't look good:

as posted in the other thread...

1) "There are still many sois not only there in the red zone where many protesters are camping out and hiding so it is very easy to underestimate their number especially at times when they are not out on the street"

2) "The remaining people are mainly women and children hiding behind barricades made of tires, poles and concrete, topped by razor wire. Other protestors have dispersed elsewhere including the Klong Toey district of the capital."

it appears the most of the hard core fighters have moved out of the central protest area, leaving only women and children.

those fighters remaining are attempting to provoke a response from the surrounding military. when the inevitable response

does come, the waiting video cameras will record the slaughter of innocents. excellent public relations if you're not

worried about your followers, but only about 'proving' the government are barbaric.

[whybother]

Thai army snipers in action

They aren't snipers. They are regular army firing regular guns.

[naughtybadfurrimunki]

It's strange how the international media always seem to leave out the 'Thaksin link' when they report on this. It's such an important piece in the puzzle that to me it even feels suspicious that they don't mention this, almost like he's greased a few palms in the west (oh it does happen!). Instead they talk about the 'rural poor' versus the 'elite', and associate the word democracy with the very people who ruin the very idea by happily selling their vote fot the price of a couple of beers!

I think that the bbc/cnn and the rest of these 'non-biased' organisations should get to the real truth which is far more interesting than the story which they're currently reporting.

Why don't they ask the red shirts how much they're getting paid? Ask them why they think Thaksin is so great and what he could do for the country should he return. Ask them how they think that Thaksin, as a convicted criminal, could possibly plan to be taken seriously by the international community, should he manage to bully his way back into office.

Ask them why they are using women and children as a human shield.

Ask them why they risk their lives for a greedy evil billionaire?

Why can't the press get an interview with Thaksin? A few well placed questions will simply destroy him.

Why don't the international media do their job rather than appearing to be the heroes in the danger zone, reporting alongside the red-shirt 'freedom fighters'?

My point? It appears that Thaksin has more than just a few red-shirts in his back pocket!!!

BBC reporting on this is very poor. Disappointing actually.

The Beeb has always been slightly left wing but in this case they're just not doing the investigative reporting I would expect.

I think I will register this point with them. They'd certainly not want to be seen as being biased

I completely agree. I think western media see the word 'democracy' and immediately presume the reds are the good guys because it appears they want to run their country in a manner that conforms to western ideology. The reality couldn't be further from the truth. This is only about the desire of one man to control a country.

[mccw]

looting and arson spreading, tesco lotus

[whybother]

Armed men in black in action

OK. Red shirt supporters. Defend that!!

[ETatBKK]

This is the demonstration of what I have stated already several times : Militias are unacceptable in democratic Countries: it brings the level of violence to the highest during social unrests. More it can jeopardise the future of a Country. And if my numerous american friend of this forum continue to think about more tough and military actions, just remember Mogadishio, Somalia.... Militias are a Cancer (Yellows, Nedwin, Pattayas, Ronin...any militia)

In case of crushing the reds, you should see the consequences on the economy: Spain during Franco period, has been sulked during years in spite marketing efforts. most of europeans avoiding Spain as tourist destination and spanish products.

Anything which can bring Parties to the table of negotiation without conditions is welcome.

There is one problem you do not understand:

The red leaders do not want to negotiate - they want the government to step down which would mean they succeeded with their / Thaksins coup attempt - they had their chance already

The economic damage has already been done thanks to the reds and only a crackdown, ending this anarchy quickly may offer a slight chance to limit the economic damage

Now don't jump - I would love to see the reds go home peacefully, but as their leaders repeat ad nausea that ain't going to happen unless....

reds' ultimate goal CERTAINLY is not democracy, they just want to throw the current government away with as much blames as possible ( and then they can start whatever ).

now, indeed they are very close to their target :-(

[lannarebirth]

Hang on a sec, you boys say that if I critisise the leadership of Mr A, and this botched attempt to clear the shopping malls of Bangkok that I am a troll? and a wanke_r, just here to wind people up?

My angle is I want to see the yellows and PAD squirm when they lose a general election. That is what I would wish for the reds. An election soon. It might stop all this <deleted>!! if the reds lose, great, if they win.. f**king great. I can only hope for a landslide for one side or the other.

Sorry. I must be a troll for wanting the military to stay the <deleted> out of politics! They have no place in this day and age. They have to learn Thaksins game instead.

You make the mistake of thinking Abhisit and the "yellows" are somehow the same. The yellows are no greater a force than the reds, which are both minorities in Thailand. The vast majority of Thais are neither and will support any government that puts violent members of either group down.

[dru2]

CONCISE AND INFORMED. From Today's Independent:

Background to the current Thai protest

[info] earlywarm wrote:

The Independent (London) Saturday, 15 May 2010 at 12:41 am (UTC)

I suspect that much of the confusion in the reports on the situation in

Thailand is coming from commentators who cannot speak or understand the

Thai language. So much of their analysis is simply a list of cliches

copied from others. Where is the good investigative research on any of the

people involved here, or on the political history in the country over the

past twenty years?

This is not fundamentally a "poor" vs "rich" class war. While there are

certainly elements of this it is entirely too superficial an analysis and

simply caters to western preconceptions about who the "good guys' and 'bad

guys' might be.

It is more correctly part of a phenomenon which is occurring all over

China and South East Asia at the moment: - the massive growth of a vast

new middle class - people who were once poor during the last century, but

who now have access to more money, consumer goods, education, health care,

mobility and entertainment than they have ever had in any previous time in

their history. All across Asia the growth of this demographic is radically

changing the political structure and threatening the old feudal society

which has always depended on 'patronage' and corruption for its power.

Thailand's rural population, like the Philippines is and has been ruled by

local "oligarchs", powerful families, mafia thugs, police chiefs and

village chiefs at least since 1938 when it first became a military

dictatorship under Marshal Phibul. These people are terrified of

progressive democratic changes in society. But such changes are inevitable

as more and more people join the expanding middle classes.

The current revolt has been precipitated by the oligarchs - the corrupt

feudal families. Thaksin is their hero - and because each feifdom controls

its own group of rural people they have been able to make it look like (to

the naive foreign press) a large crowd is clamouring for democracy. But it

is their intense focus on violence that gives them away entirely. They

have a powerful military wing who have no qualms about killing their own

protesters in order to lay blame on the government. They have been

clamouring for bloodletting since the beginning of this protest. They are

fighting back tooth and nail against democracy, education, the welfare

state (attacks on hospitals) and in particular the rule of law.

If we are going to have a discussion in the press, let's have an informed

discussion, please?

[dhrobertson]

"Stop shooting, retreat and we can then negotiate," Natthawut said. Asked by a journalist why he was not ordering the red shirts to stop attacking first, he angrily retorted: "The killers must stop. You cannot possibly expect those being hunted to stop killing. It's as if the red shirts have been abandoned alone in the world."

Derrr, do you think that might be because the redshirts are in the minority and because of the actions they have taken???

The reality is the Red Shirts have the backing of the rural population.

Probably 80% of Thai's support the revolution.

That's a fact!

I'd like to know why my previous post citing this board member as a liar was removed. Is it TV policy to allow the posting of lies but not to allow pointing out the fact what is posted is a lie? I hate liars.

I would GUESS (there are no opinion poles available) that support is about 50:50 in Isaan. Of course 100% of people everywhere want to be better off. However there is a swing against the violence of the reds, it goes against the culture here. Also, a majority of Thais favour the army, unlike the police who are universally despised.

[TAWP]

The troops should storm the Rajdaprasong site, clear up the women and children, put them in fortified buses and ship them to outlying provinces to 'process' before then shipping them home.

Then we'll see just how unarmed the protestors are.

My symapthies are for the emergency workers now. Soldiers join the army, mostly voluntary. The protesters knew what they were getting in to. The ER workers didn't ask for any of this.

It needs sorting now. The army needs to go in hard and end it now or Abhisit needs to pack up and leave with his tail firmly between his legs.

They have the draft in Thailand, soldiers doesn't need to be voluntarily there...

[mccw]

Armed men in black in action

OK. Red shirt supporters. Defend that!!

send it to cnn, bbc