Thailand Under Intense Pressure To End This Chaos

[zorm999]

If a patient (Bangkok) is suffering a major internal problem (Red occupation), then surgery (crowd dispersement) is a reasonable option. Surgery involves knives cutting in to flesh (military tactics) and no surgery would be viable if the surgeons abandoned their task before its done.

A ceasefire sounds good to observers from afar. But for those who have been following events closely, it's known that a ceasefire would immediately result in retrenchment of Reds. The same cycle of reasonable offers (by gov't) only to be rebuffed or stalled by Thaksin and the Reds would continue. Meanwhile, Reds would stay entrenched and probably increase their barricaded areas, and the continued deterioration of Bangkok.

UN chief and other top bananas can be expected to call for ceasefire and and end to hostilities (what else can they say?), but the reality is more complex.

I tend to agree with your first statement. The problem is at the moment is that the different "experts" can't decide on what kind of surgery is needed - one side says the problem is here, the other says it's somewhere else.

However, I do believe a ceasefire is by far the best option at this point. There are deeper, underlying problems in Thailand that cannot be solved by either allowing the protest to continue, nor by going in and breaking it up. In fact, both of these options can only make the problem bigger.

Until both sides are willing to agree to stop the violence and fighting and both sides retreat for the good of the country and both sides are then willing to seriously look at ways to solve the real problems, then things are not going to improve in the short or long-term.

[lensta]

This sentence "Thailand is not a failed state." seems like a plea from the writer. Thailand may not be a failed state yet, but it is certainly heading in that direction at a rapid pace. I agree with the posters on this forum who have said that there will be no winners out of this conflict now, all sides lose and the biggest loser will be the country itself.

The Thai Government have refused an international mediator to help both sides reach an agreement, saying that this is an internal matter. I may be overly suspicious but I have to wonder what they are trying to hide.

[Sisaketmike]

If the PM does not crush the rebellion he will be criticized. If he does he will be vilified. He is in a no-win situation.

I'm glad we have such a good man in charge at a time like this. Look at some of the past PMs. Who knows what kind of bonehead will replace him?

A good man!!!! What type of narcotics are you on? The whole world is saying he is incompetent and useless have they all got it wrong? Why hasnt he sorted out the demostrators, why is Thailand looking loke the Worlds buffalo? Why have there been assasinations and carnage on the streets of Bangkok? A good man, my arse!

You know what they say about opinions "blah blah blah & everyones entitled to one".

Of course, some people just can't see the forest through the trees

Can't obviously see the forest, too many trees around.....

[jayjay0]

I'm shocked at the continuous support of military intervention in lieu of peace talks I see here on this forum... has everyone forgot that people are dying?

What will it take for calmer heads to prevail?! A 10 year old boy has been killed and his mother is experiencing grief very few have experienced before... all in the name of democracy? I wonder if the mother even understands the meaning?... the child surely did not! What happens when a 1 year old, 2 year old or 3 old life is snuffed out? ... as a result of pure arrogance on behalf of both sides!

I say everyone needs to step back, take a deep breath, swallow their pride and sit down face to face. If that takes weeks, or even months, so be it! A real leader is defined when he/she openly admits the decision is/was incorrect and then revising his/her course.

You are obviously new to this situation. It has been going on for over two months now. Time after time the red shirts have shown that they are only willing to talk and there talk is demands. The Government has tried to talk with them to no avail. The Government has made major concessions to no avail. If you had been following this you would know the red shirts have made no concesions. Over two months and they still insist my way or the highway.

You ask what will it take for calmer heads to prevail. The answer is the death of the leaders and the cutting off of funds to the protesters.

You obviously have no more concern for the people the red shirts are hurting with there ego maniac policy than they do.

Point of fact are you one of them you sound like it. That is what they want leave us alone we want to do what we want to do and we don't care about Thailand.

[landofthefree]

Abhisit peacemaker 37 dead more to come 1600 injured doesnt sound like a very good peacemaker to me

[landofthefree]

This sentence "Thailand is not a failed state." seems like a plea from the writer. Thailand may not be a failed state yet, but it is certainly heading in that direction at a rapid pace. I agree with the posters on this forum who have said that there will be no winners out of this conflict now, all sides lose and the biggest loser will be the country itself.

The Thai Government have refused an international mediator to help both sides reach an agreement, saying that this is an internal matter. I may be overly suspicious but I have to wonder what they are trying to hide.

They are hiding because they know a mediator would tell them to have elections and that is what Abhisit is most scared of.

[tfc]

If the PM does not crush the rebellion he will be criticized. If he does he will be vilified. He is in a no-win situation.

I'm glad we have such a good man in charge at a time like this. Look at some of the past PMs. Who knows what kind of bonehead will replace him?

A good leader must be able to do things which do not look good.

You can't cure cancer without cutting.

This is true. The PM's actions should not stem from how he is going to be perceived or liked - his priority should be doing the right thing for his country regardless of what people say or think. It should not be about the PM "winning" it should be about looking after the country of Thailand.

[Ulysses G.]

Abhisit peacemaker 37 dead more to come 1600 injured doesnt sound like a very good peacemaker to me

Most countries would have mowed them all down weeks ago. 37 dead is sad, but it is not Tiananmen Square.

[ETatBKK]

Abhisit peacemaker 37 dead more to come 1600 injured doesnt sound like a very good peacemaker to me

how many among these 37 ( and another 1600 ) are on the band of peacemaker then ?

how many still there in the Rajaprasong are aimming for making peace then ?

[lowbo]

I'm shocked at the continuous support of military intervention in lieu of peace talks I see here on this forum... has everyone forgot that people are dying?

What will it take for calmer heads to prevail?! A 10 year old boy has been killed and his mother is experiencing grief very few have experienced before... all in the name of democracy? I wonder if the mother even understands the meaning?... the child surely did not! What happens when a 1 year old, 2 year old or 3 old life is snuffed out? ... as a result of pure arrogance on behalf of both sides!

I say everyone needs to step back, take a deep breath, swallow their pride and sit down face to face. If that takes weeks, or even months, so be it! A real leader is defined when he/she openly admits the decision is/was incorrect and then revising his/her course.

You are obviously new to this situation. It has been going on for over two months now. Time after time the red shirts have shown that they are only willing to talk and there talk is demands. The Government has tried to talk with them to no avail. The Government has made major concessions to no avail. If you had been following this you would know the red shirts have made no concesions. Over two months and they still insist my way or the highway.

You ask what will it take for calmer heads to prevail. The answer is the death of the leaders and the cutting off of funds to the protesters.

You obviously have no more concern for the people the red shirts are hurting with there ego maniac policy than they do.

Point of fact are you one of them you sound like it. That is what they want leave us alone we want to do what we want to do and we don't care about Thailand.

I beg to differ... you may the one new to this situation. This has been a sore spot in Thailand's side now for many years.

I was in Baghdad when the coups occurred in 2006, and took an immediate flight out when I feared border closures.

I was on my home from Baghdad when the PAD took control of the airports, exhausting 10 days of travel to get back to my family here.

I have seen firsthand what the taste of freedom of speach can do to an individual... as demonstrated previously by the PAD and currently by the UDD... as well as everyone else posting here.

I have also seen firsthand what an 'iron fist' approach to military intervention can do to a nation.

No matter how much good, or bad, the PM has accomplished, he will be remembered for his actions during this single event.

nuff said!

[zorm999]

Abhisit peacemaker 37 dead more to come 1600 injured doesnt sound like a very good peacemaker to me

He was trying for 6 weeks to avoid more bloodshed. What was he supposed to do when the red shirts refused to accept any negotiations offered? If your only definition of peacemaker is to give into demands of the other side in order to maintain peace, then your definition of peacemaker must be identical to your definition of pushover.

Or maybe you just hate Abhisit...

[h90]

For me it sounds like there are secret talks for peace which includes pardon for the leaders.....

If this happens Abhisit goes in the book of history as the worst leader of Thailand behind Samak and Suchinda.

A lot dead people and pardon for criminals.....

Either having deads but law restored or having some bad deal but no one harmed.

Having both was unthinkable for me just a few month ago.

[ETatBKK]

Abhisit peacemaker 37 dead more to come 1600 injured doesnt sound like a very good peacemaker to me

Most countries would have mowed them all down weeks ago. 37 dead is sad, but it is not Tiananmen Square.

I do not encourage any violence nor any fight.

looking at this number 37, is amazing number for a 3 days confrontation between violent riots ( plus terrorists ) and trained armed security personnel. close your eyes and imagine IF it happens in any western country, or any Asian country, what it will be ? obviously Tiananmen Square was a classic and a sad example !

[Thai at Heart]

For me it sounds like there are secret talks for peace which includes pardon for the leaders.....

If this happens Abhisit goes in the book of history as the worst leader of Thailand behind Samak and Suchinda.

A lot dead people and pardon for criminals.....

Either having deads but law restored or having some bad deal but no one harmed.

Having both was unthinkable for me just a few month ago.

Can't be a pardon, that is just unthinkable. Might suit some of the PAD bunch though, coz they will want one too.

He will be toast politically.

[Zolt]

If the PM does not crush the rebellion he will be criticized. If he does he will be vilified. He is in a no-win situation.

I'm glad we have such a good man in charge at a time like this. Look at some of the past PMs. Who knows what kind of bonehead will replace him?

But is crushing the rebellion really an option at all?

I mean, if this crisis proved anything, it's that the Thai army, once feared by all, actually has feet of clay. Their actions since April 10 mostly exposed mixed loyalties, lack of resolve, training and equipment, and even their numbers don't seem sufficient for the matter at hand. Nobody's been counting, but from all reports it doesn't sound like the 32000 men promised by Anupong are accounted for. 32000 trained men could just steamroll the 5000 protesters, armed or unarmed, in a matter of minutes and without even having to use live fire.

I bet most generals in the neighbouring countries are watching this with interest.

[hawker9000]

If the PM does not crush the rebellion he will be criticized. If he does he will be vilified. He is in a no-win situation.

I'm glad we have such a good man in charge at a time like this. Look at some of the past PMs. Who knows what kind of bonehead will replace him?

A good man!!!! What type of narcotics are you on? The whole world is saying he is incompetent and useless have they all got it wrong?

In a word, yes.

(And it's not the first time...)

nuff said!

Oh. Well. That's it then. Nothing to do but wrap this up. We've been told.

Edited May 18, 2010 by hawker9000

[thepodest]

This sentence "Thailand is not a failed state." seems like a plea from the writer. Thailand may not be a failed state yet, but it is certainly heading in that direction at a rapid pace. I agree with the posters on this forum who have said that there will be no winners out of this conflict now, all sides lose and the biggest loser will be the country itself.

The Thai Government have refused an international mediator to help both sides reach an agreement, saying that this is an internal matter. I may be overly suspicious but I have to wonder what they are trying to hide.

They are hiding because they know a mediator would tell them to have elections and that is what Abhisit is most scared of.

Really? Maybe he is. But at least he had the balls to offer early elections which Reds refused to comply.

[ETatBKK]

If the PM does not crush the rebellion he will be criticized. If he does he will be vilified. He is in a no-win situation.

I'm glad we have such a good man in charge at a time like this. Look at some of the past PMs. Who knows what kind of bonehead will replace him?

Because he refuses to go in and slaughter thousands of men, women and children. He is trying to stop the highjacking of the capital and still end this as peacefully as possible. That is why he is a good man.

whatever the reds win, or the soldiers win, Abhisit loss :-(

whatever the reds win, or the government wins, the Thai people loss :-(

now we see too bad loss of life, there will be loss of economy, loss of jobs in coming years ! who suffers ?

[lowbo]

anyone that beleives miltary intervention is acceptible should pay close attention to this video...

[h90]

For me it sounds like there are secret talks for peace which includes pardon for the leaders.....

If this happens Abhisit goes in the book of history as the worst leader of Thailand behind Samak and Suchinda.

A lot dead people and pardon for criminals.....

Either having deads but law restored or having some bad deal but no one harmed.

Having both was unthinkable for me just a few month ago.

Can't be a pardon, that is just unthinkable. Might suit some of the PAD bunch though, coz they will want one too.

He will be toast politically.

Of course no real pardon, just it goes to the court, will be released after say 2 weeks on bail (500.000 Baht), than a hearing after 3 month, another hearing after 6 month, new evidence after 12 month. Some lost documents after 14 month........Everything follows the correct steps of law but 2020 there is still no one in jail.

Additional every violence was from unidentified third party (what a luck Sae Daeng can't speak anymore, so they can load everything on him).

[ETatBKK]

For me it sounds like there are secret talks for peace which includes pardon for the leaders.....

If this happens Abhisit goes in the book of history as the worst leader of Thailand behind Samak and Suchinda.

A lot dead people and pardon for criminals.....

Either having deads but law restored or having some bad deal but no one harmed.

Having both was unthinkable for me just a few month ago.

if you know the Thai society well, they have a lot and a lot of these 'secret deals' in all different levels from business operation to government administration.

if such 'secret deal' is on this crisis, yeah we get 'stop bleeding' very soon, but it just an cover up and eventual one will die by 'internal bleeding'.

now, it is just a case of cutting into the wound with a blunt knife, it is very pain but knows how far it goes !

[ETatBKK]

12 Yr Old Allegedly Responsible for Din Daeng Fire

Police have in custody a twelve year old boy who they believe is responsible for the fire at a 5-storey building in the Din Daeng area.

During questioning, the boy admitted that the wandered into the rally by mistake, but stayed because he enjoyed the free food and activities.

He claimed that setting fire to the building made him feel like a man.

-- Tan Network 2010-05-18

boy, you grow up !

[Wuffy]

If the PM does not crush the rebellion he will be criticized. If he does he will be vilified. He is in a no-win situation.

I'm glad we have such a good man in charge at a time like this. Look at some of the past PMs. Who knows what kind of bonehead will replace him?

Is this the same Ulysses, or have you been taken over by aliens?

Enlightened self interest, I suspect.

Actually, I always said that I prefer the current government to stay in power and I always supported the PM. I support him even more now after seeing how he has handled this. However, I also felt - and still feel - that the redshirts have some legitimate grievances and these need to be addressed if the country is going to move forward.

The spiteful, poison pen red-haters seem to think that anyone who does not rant and rave about them is a redshirt supporter, but some of us have sympathy for their problems while realizing that the leaders are mostly crooks. I live in Chiang Mai and many of these people are my neighbors and most of them are not bad people. They just want a chance to improve their lives.

They made their point several weeks ago and could have had a real chance at a strong voice in Thai politics, but they blew it when they turned down the PM's generous peace deal and now everyone is paying for their leader's stubbornness.

I hope there is some way to salvage some kind of solution, but it is time for them to admit their mistake and give up fighting. They were so close to really accomplishing something important , but they rejected ending this peacefully, so no cigar.

I agree the red's have some legitimate grievances, but the problem is that their grievances have been pushed aside.

The protest didn't come to Bangkok telling us what their grievances were, they came demanding what they were told was the only option.

If the red shirts want their situation resolved burning tires and the city down will not accomplish that.

They need to draw back the movement and step away from the greedy bastards who confused and abused their good will.

Get back to what they really want fixed as opposed to this piss poor solution of immediate dissolution.

I really want to see those issues addressed, I want them to get together and itemized the problems and actually discuss how to solve it with the government. THEN if the government completely fails to aknowledge it to protest and call for dissolution.

[meelousee]

LOL a one sided report

[meelousee]

Holy smoke that is exactly what this protest is about. "he government completely fails to aknowledge it to protest and call for dissolution." and have fail not once but 3 times now.

[DeadPuppy]

For me it sounds like there are secret talks for peace which includes pardon for the leaders.....

If this happens Abhisit goes in the book of history as the worst leader of Thailand behind Samak and Suchinda.

A lot dead people and pardon for criminals.....

Either having deads but law restored or having some bad deal but no one harmed.

Having both was unthinkable for me just a few month ago.

Can't be a pardon, that is just unthinkable. Might suit some of the PAD bunch though, coz they will want one too.

He will be toast politically.

Of course no real pardon, just it goes to the court, will be released after say 2 weeks on bail (500.000 Baht), than a hearing after 3 month, another hearing after 6 month, new evidence after 12 month. Some lost documents after 14 month........Everything follows the correct steps of law but 2020 there is still no one in jail.

Additional every violence was from unidentified third party (what a luck Sae Daeng can't speak anymore, so they can load everything on him).

I think you nailed it H90...

[ding]

Time for Abhisit to tighten the grip. Thailand will be fine.

[h90]

For me it sounds like there are secret talks for peace which includes pardon for the leaders.....

If this happens Abhisit goes in the book of history as the worst leader of Thailand behind Samak and Suchinda.

A lot dead people and pardon for criminals.....

Either having deads but law restored or having some bad deal but no one harmed.

Having both was unthinkable for me just a few month ago.

Can't be a pardon, that is just unthinkable. Might suit some of the PAD bunch though, coz they will want one too.

He will be toast politically.

Of course no real pardon, just it goes to the court, will be released after say 2 weeks on bail (500.000 Baht), than a hearing after 3 month, another hearing after 6 month, new evidence after 12 month. Some lost documents after 14 month........Everything follows the correct steps of law but 2020 there is still no one in jail.

Additional every violence was from unidentified third party (what a luck Sae Daeng can't speak anymore, so they can load everything on him).

I think you nailed it H90...

I would be more happy if everyone would disagree.....

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Actually, I always said that I prefer the current government to stay in power and I always supported the PM. I support him even more now after seeing how he has handled this. However, I also felt - and still feel - that the redshirts have some legitimate grievances and these need to be addressed if the country is going to move forward.

The spiteful, poison pen red-haters seem to think that anyone who does not rant and rave about them is a redshirt supporter, but some of us have sympathy for their problems while realizing that the leaders are mostly crooks. I live in Chiang Mai and many of these people are my neighbors and most of them are not bad people. They just want a chance to improve their lives.

They made their point several weeks ago and could have had a real chance at a strong voice in Thai politics, but they blew it when they turned down the PM's generous peace deal and now everyone is paying for their leader's stubbornness.

I hope there is some way to salvage some kind of solution, but it is time for them to admit their mistake and give up fighting. They were so close to really accomplishing something important , but they rejected ending this peacefully, so no cigar.

Very well said UG, its amazing how much wider ones perspective can be on situations when they don't have bias to a particular side or regime.

Seconded.

[zorm999]

Enlightened self interest, I suspect.

Actually, I always said that I prefer the current government to stay in power and I always supported the PM. I support him even more now after seeing how he has handled this. However, I also felt - and still feel - that the redshirts have some legitimate grievances and these need to be addressed if the country is going to move forward.

The spiteful, poison pen red-haters seem to think that anyone who does not rant and rave about them is a redshirt supporter, but some of us have sympathy for their problems while realizing that the leaders are mostly crooks. I live in Chiang Mai and many of these people are my neighbors and most of them are not bad people. They just want a chance to improve their lives.

They made their point several weeks ago and could have had a real chance at a strong voice in Thai politics, but they blew it when they turned down the PM's generous peace deal and now everyone is paying for their leader's stubbornness.

I hope there is some way to salvage some kind of solution, but it is time for them to admit their mistake and give up fighting. They were so close to really accomplishing something important , but they rejected ending this peacefully, so no cigar.

I agree the red's have some legitimate grievances, but the problem is that their grievances have been pushed aside.

The protest didn't come to Bangkok telling us what their grievances were, they came demanding what they were told was the only option.

If the red shirts want their situation resolved burning tires and the city down will not accomplish that.

They need to draw back the movement and step away from the greedy bastards who confused and abused their good will.

Get back to what they really want fixed as opposed to this piss poor solution of immediate dissolution.

I really want to see those issues addressed, I want them to get together and itemized the problems and actually discuss how to solve it with the government. THEN if the government completely fails to aknowledge it to protest and call for dissolution.

I agree with both posts. I have no problem with some of what the grass-roots reds are wanting. But the way the current protest has evolved is completely unacceptable.

I think the fact that there are so few red shirts still at the protest suggests that maybe they are thinking the same way. As was stated, the huge majority of red shirts are decent, friendly people who just want more equality in their country and I applaud that.

The sad fact is that these decent red shirts are now being represented by a mixture of stubborn, self-righteous leaders and angry, aggressive street protesters, to the point where their message has got lost a long time ago. I'm sure a lot of the red shirts who were here at the beginning of these protests have since become disillusioned with how their "peaceful" protest has deteriorated into something so hateful and shameful.