Red-Shirt Leaders Turn Themselves In At National Police Office

[MacWalen]

Hey, gentlemen in red, can you please stop burning down the town? I thought it was saying on your banner 'peaceful demonstrators not terrorists', is that really the case? If so show us how peaceful you are. Looting, stealing from ATMs, burning. Oh.. my dear. What to do now? There is no law in the city. Looks like there is also no police.

[whybother]

It is generally believed, and was reported by intellectuals in Thailand and overseas at the time, that the Democrats boycotted the 2006 elections because they knew that they would lose that election. Do some some research yourself.

I understand that is correct. Because Thaksin had rigged the election so much, they had no chance, so didn't bother to stand.

Is there something illegal about not standing for election? I didn't see 65,000,000 other Thais going to jail for not standing for election.

Thaksin tried to circumvent the laws by paying people to stand against him. Even with that, there were enough places without opposition that Thaksin's parties failed to get even 20% of the votes.

[whybother]

double post

Edited May 19, 2010 by whybother

[dobadoy]

Red-shirt key leaders have been transported to a secret location where, under the Emergency Decree, they will be held for at least 7 days.

Reports indicate that key red shirt leaders who surrendered earlier today have been transported to the Narasuan Army Camp in Hua Hin. They will be held for further questioning.

That location is a well-kept secret, indeed.

[BigBikeBKK]

Many countries had simmilar situations but nowhere elections was appointed in so long time. No any country, remember this. This kind of situations demand very short time for elections. This is not about what would you like or what time would you need and your party to be ready for election and to estimate some good result.

So, don't tell me please that 5 months was not put the finger in the eye of tiger now or immature and inexperienced move, based just on political animozity.

You are being naive- how can free elections be held in a country where armed mobs are above the law and opposition parties can not even campaign for fear of getting killed by red shirt terrorists?

[Jirapa]

Abhisit has dug his own grave and will never win an election otherwise he'd have set an election date within the next 3 months. Red shirts would have probably agreed to that as they need a few months to get their electoral campaign in order and 2 weeks would have been too short.

Taksin's not coming back as the head of state unless a sucessful civil war backed by him ousts the military which is highly unlikely. Elections will be held eventually with the international eye of the media beaming down and the majority (we all know who that is) will win so long as the election is fair?

Redshirt leaders will be released from prison by a new government (if encaserated) and Abhist might have to go on the run.

Or the army retake control, learn from their previous mistakes and organise a quick, fresh and fair election without discriminating against any party which could be a good option?

[whybother]

Brainwashed or not there is no way the red movement would have been able to rally so much support if the majority of the protesters didn't believe that they we're coming to bangkok to protest for a fairer Thailand for the poor. No matter how contrived Thaksin's ability to play on the state of the current hierarchy is, he wouldn't be able to do so if there weren't very real injustices taking place here. Ok, he's paying for many of the protesters but they wouldn't be here if they weren't desperate for Change and therefor i still consider this to be a class war no matter how manipulated it has become.

Sadly due to the lack of education for the rural poor in Thailand i just hope they will one day be able to galvanize their numbers and find a united voice without the need for such charlatans taking charge, but sadly it's not going to be easy without a bankroll and those in POWER are hardly going to be tripping over themselves to offer a helping hand up.

and the chump who made the comment about thailand not having a cast system needs to wake up or shut up. Preferably both.

"So much support"?

They paid for a lot of their support and barely got 100,000 on their best day.

Towards the end, they rarely got 10,000.

On their last day, they had about 3000.

Now there are a couple of thousand thugs burning down buildings.

Even in the north (their stronghold), they can only get a few hundred people out protesting.

I would hardly call that support.

[Heng]

Now for them to post bail so that they can attend a few World Cup matches (and then "back for trial, promise!").

[Chinavet]

I can't understand how so many posters on this forum are so staunchly anti Red.

The huge gulf between rich and poor in thailand is quite clear for all to see.

Even if their cause has been hijacked by certain individuals for their own personal gain and their actions somewhat misguided there is still a class war at the core of these troubles. As long as there is a huge underclass in Thailand and until the poor rural folk and anyone not connected to the army, police force, or big business have fair access to healthcare and education and as long as there are monopolies held by the business owners over agricultural products such as Rice and rubber these troubles will continue.

I am glad that bangkok looks like it will be getting back to normal for my own interests, but i just hope that the next protest will be done in a way that will be less alienating for the reds (or whatever colour they choose to wear) and that the normal people of Bangkok wont have their lives turned upside down. I wonder how many people i have met in Bangkok would have been more sympathetic to the reds plight if the protest had been gone about differently.

I think the last couple of months has only strengthened the red cause and in time with the right leadership justice could one day be served in thailand, i hope so any way.

This is far from over.

While your heart is in the right place, you half-answered your own question. My opinion only....the 'staunchly anti red' posters' I am sure can all see the obvious imbalances and injustices that exist in Thailand and hope for positive change. They are not anti-poor. But you make much too light of those that 'hijacked the cause'. They did not. They created it. Blatantly, to enrich themselves and serve the purposes of one dangerous megalomaniac.

There have been some excellent posts on wealth distribution, progress and regional comparisons. The imbalances are not new. The great irony is Thailand currently has some un-corrupted, intelligent, sincere, hard working young men addressing the issues. Even in the face of a hugely funded never ending opposition that only opposes, and never contributes to the proper work of government and welfare of the people. Yes, they are forced to work and unite with some unsavoury characters, thats a reality in all democracies and governments, more so in developing ones. More power to them for having the guts to take on the job....without the goal of enriching themselves.

Through all of this, unfortunately, the label 'Reds or Redshirts' has been applied to all the players on that side of the fence. I have no doubt you, and many other posters refer to the 'poor and the duped'.

The staunchly anti red refer to reds as 'Thaksin and his henchmen' with their own agenda to increase their own wealth and power, using the poor as pawns.

Another major sub-group is being unleashed across the city and country now. The mindless militants, thrill seekers, misfits and criminals that have found a common home under the 'red' banner and are revelling in the power of fear and intimidation.

None of these red groups have the politics you would like them to have (and most of the foreign press believe they have). I suspect these differences in the 'red' label account for much of the friction between TV members lately.

Personally, I am of the group that is deeply offended by the notion that this red movement represents the poor and even more offended that being anti-red suggests ignorance of the poverty and the things that need to be done. The current government is addressing many of those needs, including land reform....directly against the interests of the elite.

While I'm on my soapbox...the constant harping and debate about this government being legitimate...yes, things got very untidy. While legal, there is a shade of grey about the change of power. But in the perspective of all previous governments in Thailand with vote buying, intimidation etc, this is as good as it gets. The circumstances and events that led to Abhasit being PM, in that perspective, in no way justifies anything we have seen (since the courts took Thaksin's money).

BTW, I ain't a yellow supporter either.

[souvenirdeparis]

I am happy those leaders came to their senses and did the right thing, both for their own followers and the other people of Thailand. I hope they get a fair trial and sentence.

like the yellow shirt leaders have??

can it gymboy. this "if the yellows can do it why can't we" reminds me of what my mother used to tell me as a little boy, "If Johnny went and laid down in the middle of the road would you be as stupid as him?". go talk to somchai and samak & the failed PPP government as to why the yellows were allowed to shut down the airport. That was their responsibility.

yellows didn't have paid- dark- shirt snipers on the roof of the airport to shoot down bystanders , which makes a big difference , nor ready- to- burn barricades.

As far as I remember there were no noticable casualties

[sgtpeppers]

Funny to read how one of the nations brain dead reporters are blaming the riots on Thaksin.

Heaven forbid if Thaksin were to be hit by a bus, this reporter would have to actually use his brain to determine the cause of the riots instead.

[SomTumTiger]

Abhisit has dug his own grave and will never win an election otherwise he'd have set an election date within the next 3 months. Red shirts would have probably agreed to that as they need a few months to get their electoral campaign in order and 2 weeks would have been too short.

Taksin's not coming back as the head of state unless a sucessful civil war backed by him ousts the military which is highly unlikely. Elections will be held eventually with the international eye of the media beaming down and the majority (we all know who that is) will win so long as the election is fair?

Redshirt leaders will be released from prison by a new government (if encaserated) and Abhist might have to go on the run.

Or the army retake control, learn from their previous mistakes and organise a quick, fresh and fair election without discriminating against any party which could be a good option?

Thanks for the pronostication Madame Zorba. I would bet you will be proved wrong regarding the current government. Everyone who has counted them out previously has been wrong.

[Mekhong]

Key Red-shirt Leader Arisman Pongruengrong Allegedly Captured

Key red-shirt leader Arisman Pongruengrong, who did not turn himself in with the rest of the core leaders earlier this afternoon, was allegedly apprehended at Ploenchit BTS station.

He's believed to have been transported to Narasuan Army Camp.

Escape rope not long enough this time fat boy?

[gymboy33]

I am happy those leaders came to their senses and did the right thing, both for their own followers and the other people of Thailand. I hope they get a fair trial and sentence.

like the yellow shirt leaders have??

can it gymboy. this "if the yellows can do it why can't we" reminds me of what my mother used to tell me as a little boy, "If Johnny went and laid down in the middle of the road would you be as stupid as him?". go talk to somchai and samak & the failed PPP government as to why the yellows were allowed to shut down the airport. That was their responsibility.

yellows didn't have paid- dark- shirt snipers on the roof of the airport to shoot down bystanders , which makes a big difference , nor ready- to- burn barricades.

As far as I remember there were no noticable casualties

yellow shirts had ARMED men just like the reds..

Both as bad as each other!!

[SomTumTiger]

yellow shirts had ARMED men just like the reds..

Both as bad as each other!!

Did the yellows try to BURN DOWN THE CITY? I'll wait while you get your answer from Montenegro.

[BigBikeBKK]

4. The current arson campaign is the end result of a democratically elected government being thrown out of power by a military coup, the end result of the Thai army shooting and killing Thai people, and the end result of decades of repression by the ruling elite in Bangkok.

With your every post you further prove your ignorance of recent history. The most recent coup did not "throw out" a government, it merely removed a corrupt prime minister (Thaksin). The Thai Army is being used to combat domestic terrorists. We all see now just how "peaceful" the red shirts are...

Just how has the Bangkok 'elite' repressed the country? By fostering development, encouraging foreign investment and tourism, building factories and creating jobs and making Thailand into the 2nd largest economy in SE Asia???

[dobadoy]

I can't understand how so many posters on this forum are so staunchly anti Red.

The huge gulf between rich and poor in thailand is quite clear for all to see.

Even if their cause has been hijacked by certain individuals for their own personal gain and their actions somewhat misguided there is still a class war at the core of these troubles. As long as there is a huge underclass in Thailand and until the poor rural folk and anyone not connected to the army, police force, or big business have fair access to healthcare and education and as long as there are monopolies held by the business owners over agricultural products such as Rice and rubber these troubles will continue.

I am glad that bangkok looks like it will be getting back to normal for my own interests, but i just hope that the next protest will be done in a way that will be less alienating for the reds (or whatever colour they choose to wear) and that the normal people of Bangkok wont have their lives turned upside down. I wonder how many people i have met in Bangkok would have been more sympathetic to the reds plight if the protest had been gone about differently.

I think the last couple of months has only strengthened the red cause and in time with the right leadership justice could one day be served in thailand, i hope so any way.

This is far from over.

While your heart is in the right place, you half-answered your own question. My opinion only....the 'staunchly anti red' posters' I am sure can all see the obvious imbalances and injustices that exist in Thailand and hope for positive change. They are not anti-poor. But you make much too light of those that 'hijacked the cause'. They did not. They created it. Blatantly, to enrich themselves and serve the purposes of one dangerous megalomaniac.

There have been some excellent posts on wealth distribution, progress and regional comparisons. The imbalances are not new. The great irony is Thailand currently has some un-corrupted, intelligent, sincere, hard working young men addressing the issues. Even in the face of a hugely funded never ending opposition that only opposes, and never contributes to the proper work of government and welfare of the people. Yes, they are forced to work and unite with some unsavoury characters, thats a reality in all democracies and governments, more so in developing ones. More power to them for having the guts to take on the job....without the goal of enriching themselves.

Through all of this, unfortunately, the label 'Reds or Redshirts' has been applied to all the players on that side of the fence. I have no doubt you, and many other posters refer to the 'poor and the duped'.

The staunchly anti red refer to reds as 'Thaksin and his henchmen' with their own agenda to increase their own wealth and power, using the poor as pawns.

Another major sub-group is being unleashed across the city and country now. The mindless militants, thrill seekers, misfits and criminals that have found a common home under the 'red' banner and are revelling in the power of fear and intimidation.

None of these red groups have the politics you would like them to have (and most of the foreign press believe they have). I suspect these differences in the 'red' label account for much of the friction between TV members lately.

Personally, I am of the group that is deeply offended by the notion that this red movement represents the poor and even more offended that being anti-red suggests ignorance of the poverty and the things that need to be done. The current government is addressing many of those needs, including land reform....directly against the interests of the elite.

While I'm on my soapbox...the constant harping and debate about this government being legitimate...yes, things got very untidy. While legal, there is a shade of grey about the change of power. But in the perspective of all previous governments in Thailand with vote buying, intimidation etc, this is as good as it gets. The circumstances and events that led to Abhasit being PM, in that perspective, in no way justifies anything we have seen (since the courts took Thaksin's money).

BTW, I ain't a yellow supporter either.

Good post, Chinavet. You've said much that has been said by many a long time ago, but by now most of us have lost patience to keep repeating reasoned argument in the face of a small but determined number of posters who never engage in anything but hyperbole. Good on you to still be offering a bit of sanity to new TV viewers who don't know the background.

[Roadman]

At last peace in our place, in our heart and soul.

Peace on the place to be near the district in Bangkok.

But what is going on?

Is this realy the end?

I hope so, realy I hope so.

For the red shirts and the yellow, police and army.

A lost off lifes for what, for nothing.

I would disagree with the "for nothing" last few words.

There has been a lot come out of this.

It has seen a Thai PM finally draw a line in the sand on his watch at the helm and say enough of this bull crap.

It has seen what the thief Thaksin craved for and lost with the removal of his murdering scum Sae Dung - that was control of the Army with which the thieving pr1ck along with his brought cop buddies and his kwai scum would have plundered Thailand and the Esaan poor equally. The Esaan socially disadvantaged deserve better representation politically than what all the scum on display in the Bangkok CBD over the last few months will ever give them.

It has seen the government and Army working in coalition, albiet slowly at first, as they learnt how to do deal with anarchy and terrorism in the midst of this protest to acceptable international and western standards, so as to remove this mess with what is minimum casualities all around, and with no casualties to the ones that did matter above all at this protest - the women and children in camp center. And that is no mean achievement given the initial possible divided loyalty among the Army ranks and the absolute useless item that passed for a police force.

It has seen any division in Army ranks sorted and troops delivering in their duty to their King, country and fellow citizens when it really mattered.

But more importantly it has already seen before the dust has settled on this day what this government and more importantly its honest and responsible puppet leader is all about with early indications that the roadmap as constantly offered during this terrorist anarchy is already back on the table for the Esaan people.

Well done Khun Abhisit and Khun Anupong and their teams, and as someone else said further up keep up the good work together. And that good work should include politicing the UN for delivery of Thaksin to a Thai jail, the immediate arrest of all his family members upon seeting foot within the country and government completly cleaning out the single last satang in any of their bank accounts and confiscation of any assetts still in Thailand.

[ovenman]

Now for them to post bail so that they can attend a few World Cup matches (and then "back for trial, promise!").

Heng, you old cynic.

[gymboy33]

yellow shirts had ARMED men just like the reds..

Both as bad as each other!!

Did the yellows try to BURN DOWN THE CITY? I'll wait while you get your answer from Montenegro.

so yr not denying the yellow shirts were armed and dangerous???

burn down the city?? theres a few buildings on fire and their burning tyres,,i would hardly call it burning down the city.

and what the hel_l are you going on about get my answer from montenegro??

I dont just churn out the goverment propaganda whats been trickled down to you??

and dont question it!!

got my own mind!

[harsh4]

So good, some of the Red Shirt leaders have turned themselves in. At least that's what we've heard on latest news report, though even such reports are suspect sometimes.

. . . . . . Still, here are some names I didn't see listed:

Lt.Col Wipoj Aponrat

Supon Attaway (main Red attorney)

Kwanchai Praipana (hot head, a tad less ballistic than Seh Daeng)

Payap Pangate (stormed hospital)

Arisman

Aree Krainara (chief of Red security)

Saikua

Weera (he ran off in a huff, but does that excuse him?)

How can you forget Dr. Waeng ? :-) The guy with the oversized glasses...looks like he's on the run too ?

[Rucharee]

Key Red-shirt Leader Arisman Pongruengrong Allegedly Captured

Key red-shirt leader Arisman Pongruengrong, who did not turn himself in with the rest of the core leaders earlier this afternoon, was allegedly apprehended at Ploenchit BTS station.

He's believed to have been transported to Narasuan Army Camp.

Escape rope not long enough this time fat boy?

He didn't know that the train is not running today.

[SomTumTiger]

yellow shirts had ARMED men just like the reds..

Both as bad as each other!!

Did the yellows try to BURN DOWN THE CITY? I'll wait while you get your answer from Montenegro.

so yr not denying the yellow shirts were armed and dangerous???

burn down the city?? theres a few buildings on fire and their burning tyres,,i would hardly call it burning down the city.

and what the hel_l are you going on about get my answer from montenegro??

I dont just churn out the goverment propaganda whats been trickled down to you??

and dont question it!!

got my own mind!

Refuse to get drawn in to your sick cycle of denial. Good luck!

Edited May 19, 2010 by SomTumTiger

[Rucharee]

Red-shirt key leaders have been transported to a secret location where, under the Emergency Decree, they will be held for at least 7 days.

Reports indicate that key red shirt leaders who surrendered earlier today have been transported to the Narasuan Army Camp in Hua Hin. They will be held for further questioning.

That location is a well-kept secret, indeed.

TIT

[jdinasia]

I am happy those leaders came to their senses and did the right thing, both for their own followers and the other people of Thailand. I hope they get a fair trial and sentence.

Now this sets the stage for the politicians to face trial in the the Hague for using the Thai Army against Thai citizens. The killing orchestrated by the politicians will be avenged in the World Court now.

HUH?

This is about as well informed as your previous remarks about the court's "no confidence" vote ..... There is ZERO chance of any charges from anything that has happened in THIS administration's time in office showing up before the World Court.

[Rucharee]

I have no sympathy for Taksin other than the above but he's one of the few sucess stories your talking about as it rarely happens. If your born poor in Thailand your extremly likely to stay poor.

Wow, how do you define "success"? And at what cost? If success to you means amassing enormous wealth at the cost of many lives and the stability of an entire country, then I guess you and I have different definitions of "success".

You go on to say: If your born poor in Thailand your extremly likely to stay poor.

How is that different from any other country in the world today? The rich get richer, the poor get poorer and the middle class gets thinner and thinner. Unfortunately the Red Shirt mobs have never put forth any ideas or plans to actually address this problem- they're only serving the interests of their puppet-master Taksin.

Who gave them free/very cheap education and healthcare? That could be considered a sucess for all I suppose and probably merits some support. If your born rich in Thailand you stay rich. Do you prefer that? Born poor there's plenty of runs missing on the ladder so god help you getting to the top!

What is wrong with being poor.

I am poor, but I still have my dignity.

Get it.

Ex-RED, now YELLOW since 1 pm today.

[SomTumTiger]

Thanong, in his blog on the Nation - reported that Arisman initially escaped the Ratchaprasong rally by donning a dress and wig. Spider Man had transformed into Pretty Woman

[dobadoy]

"No ceasefire until the army withdraws... No ceasefire until the government steps down... We will never give in... We will fight to the bitter end..."

Shinawatra money transactions frozen

"We've had enough... Don't shoot, we're coming out..."

Sure, it's got nothing to do with Thaksin

Nice angle. Like it.

[VictorMeldrewBKK]

I think most posters have moved to this thread ... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Troops-Armou...ge-t366787.html

I wonder if Dan Rivers has been able to see any fires?

[whybother]

yellow shirts had ARMED men just like the reds..

Both as bad as each other!!

The yellow shirts had armed men. A few of them had pistols.

They were not armed JUST LIKE the reds, who had high powered rifles, grenades, and RPGs.