Battle In Bangkok - This Is No Peasant's Revolt

[ferd54]

And how is that different from Thaksin?

<snip>the only person I see trying to do anything about it is Abhisit.

Thaksin fits my description too. If you look up arrogant in the dictionary, likely it would have a picture of him. He most definitely operated above and outside the law (the extra-judicial killings of 'drug dealers' springs readily to mind). He was the supreme operator in a supremely corrupt system. He was just too cunning for his own good; he scared the others, who no doubt were concerned they would lose their place at the trough.

While he surely paid big money to fire up the Red protest, my hope is that he will be left behind and the underclass movement take on a life of its own well free from him. We'll see.

Abhisit does seem like the most natural fit to compassionately assist the poor in their efforts at true improvements in the lives. I think he has shown remarkable restraint and balance. Ironically he could be the one to grow into the role so desperately needed in Thailand. I do believe the Reds made their point that the ruling masters of Thailand better begin to listen to them, however "dark-skinned" and "Lao" they are; they are people with as much worth as any other.

[mausplan]

Yesterday morning on the Red stage the notion of looting and burning was mentioned several times. One speaker referred to "instructions " and we will let you know when.

Did you see the TV footage on the Red leaders arriving in the Police Camp at Cha Am yesterday afternoon, no handcuffs , police smiling and saluting.

All is not as it seems. The burning and looting was pre planned to some degree based on the spoken evidence from the Red stage. It seems this was not quite the spontaneous uprising of the oppressed peasants but to some degree an orchestrated plan to sow more dissent.

[Jai Dee]

If the poor are uneducated, why is that? Perhaps the elites who control the country should help to educate them.

Quite. Which is why Abhisit introduced free education across the entire whole school curriculum last year - a policy Thaksin never even considered.

As to other pontificators in this thread, why not put down your beer and romantic notions of class war and instead learn how to read Thai. Then you could spend time on the Thai language boards as well as the English language ones and have a better perspective on what real Thai people are actually saying and thinking.

So true!

Reading the Thai language boards is quite enlightening. I don't see any hate-filled rhetoric on the few I have perused. Would the mods allow a "translated version" of the Thai boards to be presented here? I doubt they could be seen as a competitive threat, though there may be legal issues.

I don't see a problem with that, as long as you provide a link back to the original source and made it perfectly clear that it was a translation from the original Thai quote.

Provide a link (as is done in the News Clippings Forum) and quote the original article along with your translation.

[gemini81]

Now you go to YOU TUBE and all you see is communists taking advantage of this situation and bashing the elites. i suggest they take a long vacation to Cuba or Venezuala and learn the true meaning of communism. They may come back to Thailand and want to join the yellow shirts

I'm tired of even hearing elite this and elite that. the red shirt leaders and their demagogue are quite wealthy. they hoarde it for themselves. why don't the locals take them out then first? guess they're not that bright to see the real problem starts locally in their representation. Its not about class or elite resentment anymore. It was about money and greed. guess the remaining ones who aren't incarcerated will have to go back to ripping off foreigners or naive foreign men who're retarded enough to give money to bar girls' families.

[Pakboong]

OOOH... that word again... BKK elite. Do you even know what that means?

Bangkok is the capitol of Thailand. If they're not allowed to be "elite" (whatever the hel_l that means), WHAT.THE.F_UCK do you suggest them to be?

Instead of throwing xenophobic labels around, why don't you address the real policy issues that disturb you?

I worked for Sutachai Yoon and have been involved with other "upper class" "well educated" Sino-Thai Bangkokians. I will leave aside detailed comment on the work conditions at the Nation, because I am no doubt biased after the shocking treatment I experienced there in 1991. Suffice it to say that foreigners are only tolerated because they are a necessary evil in an English-language newspaper.

I will, however, pass along my general observations on the wealthy in BKK: Their sense of superiority and entitlement is nauseating. They play only by their own rules and are literally above the law when it comes to day-to-day life. And to a person the ones I worked closely with were of Chinese decent, and dam_n*d proud of it.

They have dominated others while operating in a system that is corrupt from top to bottom. Can you do the math?

I have made this point many times on this forum and for the most part, it falls on deaf ears. It is so obvious to me, I don't even know what to say. The heart of the problem is in your simple example that should not escape anyone with and IQ above room temperature and partially awake but it does.

[Samuian]

As a Foreigner here the first thing that came to my mind when seeing the posters in English at predominant locations, children elderly, women the "helpless" up front...

...was "Why in English?" who was the target?

and why was the agenda of "military dictatorship" pushed - just to rectify the demand for new elections?

Why was social inequality pushed by people who obviously weren't poor...

why was there so much hatred against a government which was the legitimate follow up of 2 previous governments

which did use heavy handed tactics against protesters - but this was never ever mentioned..?

Why did they allow "phone ins" by a criminal fugitive without question?

Why, as a self declared movement for Democracy did their leaders condone Violence against anyone who wasn't with them?

Why did they allow the drive by shootings, the grenade attacks, arson attacks and attacks on innocent civilians and public property?

Why?

It doesn't look very democratic to me...

It obvious that there is a hidden agenda if one looks WHICH properties and Banks have been targeted...

isn't their "most beloved Politician, who had been unrightfully ousted from his Premiership and unfairly tried and sentenced by biased courts.. " a self made capitalist too?

Why are the red shirts are so reluctant to look into the accusations, why are they all simply brushed off?

Why, why, why.... well there is an answer to this all,

it's now written all over Bangkok and will soon be visable all over the land of smiles!

Hopefully he and his mercenaries won't be able to turn this in to the land of tears and fears!

[dobadoy]

If the poor are uneducated, why is that? Perhaps the elites who control the country should help to educate them.

Quite. Which is why Abhisit introduced free education across the entire whole school curriculum last year - a policy Thaksin never even considered.

As to other pontificators in this thread, why not put down your beer and romantic notions of class war and instead learn how to read Thai. Then you could spend time on the Thai language boards as well as the English language ones and have a better perspective on what real Thai people are actually saying and thinking.

So true!

Reading the Thai language boards is quite enlightening. I don't see any hate-filled rhetoric on the few I have perused. Would the mods allow a "translated version" of the Thai boards to be presented here? I doubt they could be seen as a competitive threat, though there may be legal issues.

What is the general feeling on the Thai boards?

Some seem more appalled about Central World than anything else (there is now a Thai FB group for people who miss Central World, believe it or not!)

Some are calling for citizens with guns to come out and help the army, and others are claiming Thaksin is the true leader of all Thais.

But the overwhelming majority that I've read are appalled that the reds didn't accept the road map offer. A large proportion of these also blame the escalation of violence since then on the Reds rather than the army.

[slapout]

This morning, I mentioned to a red shirt die hard that the vandals in Bangkok had set fires and generally went on a looting/destruction rampage. The response was, "central was yellow shirt owned so no problem". I think this statement is very inductive of the mindset of some of the people involved from the top down. The mention of brainwashing, pay a rioter, refusal to take responsibility of action, blame the next guy, profess ignorance, and look for a way to protect you a.s and money seem to be a common trait on both sides. The total score of 6 may lean toward the new money and cohorts/cosponsors.

[cougar52]

Do not forget also that it is easily overlooked that Jatuporn, one of the main leaders, would lose his immunity come Monday, May the 24th.

And even though he surrendered with the others, he is now free because of that immunity, even the second in charge of the police would not arrest him because of his immunity when he was in the National Police Headquarters.

He is not free - he is being held in Hua Hin with the others, courtesy of state of emergency laws. They can hold him for 7 days, upon which time, his immunity expires, and he'll be charged with terrorism, just like the others. Don't think that big mouth isn't singing up a storm as we speak.

Then please explain this: Section: Government & Politics - United Front of Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) core leader Jatuporn Prompan reported himself to the police today, but his bid failed when Deputy Metropolitan Police Chief Police Major General Amnuay Nimmano did not allow him to do so.

Puea Thai party-list MP and UDD core leader Jatuporn Prompan reported to inquiry officials of Metropolitan Police Headquarter amid about 300 UDD supporters traveling to give him moral support. The UDD top leader stressed that he had never sought immunity as an MP, but it was an automatic right according to the constitution

[NCFC]

The comparison to the Philippine "People Power" movement might be a good one (excepting that Abhisit cannot be in any way compared to Marcos). Oh, how idealistic Filippinos were enlisted into that with such high hopes for honest government, improvement in their quality of life, political freedom, progress and democracy. But what has the PP movement achieved, this many years later, for Filippinos? Nothing much. Manila infrastructure is in ruins. Westerners more at risk there than ever. Economic growth lagging behind the rest of SE Asia, and its benefits, limited that they are, simply raked into the pockets of the politically advantaged, of whom there are many at the trough. Political corruption is more widespread than ever; politicians live like commissars. Iconic national symbols like the Univ. of the Philippines now an embarrassment. Filippinos still scrambling for overseas positions (or emigration) in order to be able to support their families back home where domestic unemployment is (still) high. Just some new highways (and one has to ask for whose benefit were they actually built)... Oh, and perenially creative statistics at every election cycle - plenty of smoke & mirrors, "talking points", for the massses.

Thailand can expect no better from the redshirt movement. Maybe worse. There'll just be a new policital elite. A changing of the guard. An economic assault on the fledgling middle class Thailand so badly needs. Nothing more. Even if the reds all go to jail and PM Abhisit stays just where he is, I'm pretty sure some of this will still have to come about in the longer term.

You make many good points about the Philippines today. What the country needs is a strong woman like Imelda Marcos to run it.

[thaibai]

I t fail to understand how their surrender yesterday meant they abandoned their followers. Were they supposed to encourage their followers to fight to the death?  

This is a stupid and irresponsible editorial.

I think it is a well writen article by somebody who is well informed, unlike yourself............... Google the "jonestown massacre" and see how that guy Jones led masses of people in the wrong direction (almost a thousand followers commited suicide).............. Just as these lovely Isan folks, Ill-educated as most are, have been easily led astray. If you really think it is about Democracy -- you're naive......... If you notice that most of us back the Govt and a minority back the red-shirts----- If you know anything about Democracy, or life in general, you will know that the majority rules and wins............

I agree, but you lectured him a brutal way

hope he recovers.

[Tim207]

but let me tell you one thing,there is plenty of hatred towards bangkok thais and farangs by thai people in Chonburi,so think about that please.

No offense but considering the farangs I have known that hung out in Chonburi (read that as Pattaya bar flies), I can't blame the locals for having a low opinion of farangs.

[dobadoy]

Do not forget also that it is easily overlooked that Jatuporn, one of the main leaders, would lose his immunity come Monday, May the 24th.

And even though he surrendered with the others, he is now free because of that immunity, even the second in charge of the police would not arrest him because of his immunity when he was in the National Police Headquarters.

He is not free - he is being held in Hua Hin with the others, courtesy of state of emergency laws. They can hold him for 7 days, upon which time, his immunity expires, and he'll be charged with terrorism, just like the others. Don't think that big mouth isn't singing up a storm as we speak.

Then please explain this: Section: Government & Politics - United Front of Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) core leader Jatuporn Prompan reported himself to the police today, but his bid failed when Deputy Metropolitan Police Chief Police Major General Amnuay Nimmano did not allow him to do so.

Puea Thai party-list MP and UDD core leader Jatuporn Prompan reported to inquiry officials of Metropolitan Police Headquarter amid about 300 UDD supporters traveling to give him moral support. The UDD top leader stressed that he had never sought immunity as an MP, but it was an automatic right according to the constitution

Cougar - I can assure you Jatuporn and others are at Hua Hin, there was video of them getting out of helicopters on Thai news about 8pm last night. I suspect the quote you've got above is to do with the technicality of who can formally 'arrest' him, rather than the fact that he is in custody.

What was 'interesting' about the news footage was the relaxed and jocular manner in which Jatuporn was behaving with the officials. Also telling was the sharp look he shot at one sunglass-wearing soldier who grabbed his arm to put him in the waiting van. I don't think the soldier noticed, he was looking the other way, btu Jatuporn's irritation at not being treated VIP was clear.

[viking75]

Sensible Media that will still be players in two years time saying this mighty crackdown by vested elite interests has had opposit affect. it has.

last roudn of propaganda from Nation that is toast when dems fall.

poor people even now have access to internet and don't watch army programs about thai smile

rest of world wonder when army going to spilt because red soldiers soon tire of order to kill poor farmer and maybe look for more well fed wealthy target.

[shadiadi]

How many coups have they had here in the last 70 years?

How often do they have general elections?

Do some research on these questions I think the statistics show democracy doesn't really work here.

[StreetCowboy]

I agree, this editorial is very biased.

The Nation is part of the Yellow camp. Its Sino-Thai owners (the Yoons) have little if anything in common with the peasants of Issan. They are part of the BKK elite.

This is the first overtly racist post I've seen on the topic, which is quite remarkable given the depths of bigotry and prejudice that the debate has plumbed.

Sadly, my education is lacking on English history, but perhaps someone could compare the current troubles to the English War of the Roses - another battle between feudal barons, in which the peasants and the state bore the suffering of others' over-reaching ambition.

SC

[dobadoy]

22,000+ Facebookers missing Central World, concern not just for shopping but also for the many lost jobs.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=115310218489277

[cougar52]

My apologies, it appears that Jatuporn is in custody, my previous post was a mistake of mine, I was reading an article from a year ago, that presented itself and I did not notice the date was 2009

So I apologize, even I can be wrong when speed is so available

[lookpapa]

I quote from the article:"let's imagine if this was Paris, London or New York, the reds doing what they have done, they wouldn't have lasted for more than a week."

The author doesn't realise that this is precisely what happened in Paris a couple or so years ago when tens of thousands rioted with arson, looting and death and injuries but the police were able to contain it within a week. Because they wanted to and did what their Government instructed them as opposed to in Bangkok. The author has to decide whether he's going to depict this in terms of a 1st world democracy or the real facts of the Thai society. I think the author is part of the establishment and by his slant he refuses to acknowledge the injustices of his country. When a society is in turmoil and findemental change is needed the kind of acts by the reds are commonplace. Look at history and revolutions elsewhere. There's a saying that you got to crack eggs to make an omlette.

[jonnog]

I agree, this editorial is very biased.

Of course it is. Thai media - all of it - is pliable and is not a vehicle for free speech. Thailand's media was described in October last year as "restrained" by the Press Freedom Index. In this index - regarded as the most accurate of its kind - Thailand is number 130, behind far behind countries such as Cambodia, Nepal and Angola. I am so sad that most of the farangs writing in Thai Visa demonstrate the same right-wing tendencies that the country's media does. Perhaps most of them are stupid and cannot think for themselves.

[lookpapa]

I agree, this editorial is very biased.

Of course it is. Thai media - all of it - is pliable and is not a vehicle for free speech. Thailand's media was described in October last year as "restrained" by the Press Freedom Index. In this index - regarded as the most accurate of its kind - Thailand is number 130, behind far behind countries such as Cambodia, Nepal and Angola. I am so sad that most of the farangs writing in Thai Visa demonstrate the same right-wing tendencies that the country's media does. Perhaps most of them are stupid and cannot think for themselves.

You're not far wrong.Most expat farangs are only concerned that their little piece of Thai Nirvana is being disturbed to the extent that they may have to leave. That's what's motivating their posts and not the plight of the millions of poor people of Thailand. Why , they also don't want the status quo to change just like those who have all the power now.

[ferd54]

I agree, this editorial is very biased.

The Nation is part of the Yellow camp. Its Sino-Thai owners (the Yoons) have little if anything in common with the peasants of Issan. They are part of the BKK elite.

This is the first overtly racist post I've seen on the topic, which is quite remarkable given the depths of bigotry and prejudice that the debate has plumbed.

Why is that racist? Just pointing out that urban ethnic Chinese who are so very proud of their ancestry have little in common with rural Lao people? Few Thai would find that statement of fact racist, but they might find their treatment in Thailand prejudiced, or indeed, racist.

Back to the original point: Yes, the Nation is biased. Or how about the Manager newspaper? The owner, a Sino-Thai leader of the Yellow shirt movement, is the same guy that shafted a whole lot of foreigners about a decade ago who worked for the paper. Let them go without paying their wages.

These "elite" are a world unto themselves and they are just as racist against white people as they are against Lao people. They think it is their right to screw people over, get away with it, then do it all over again. They've been doing this for generations.

[dobadoy]

I think this is the video CRES are referring to about Nutthawut's call to burn down the country.

Edited May 20, 2010 by dobadoy

[angrypassenger]

I agree that the Red Shirt leadership were foolish in not accepting Abhisit's compromise without trying to attach ridiculous conditions, but fail to understand how their surrender yesterday meant they abandoned their followers. Were they supposed to encourage their followers to fight to the death?

This is a stupid and irresponsible editorial.

Red shirt leaders knew by staying on the stage a bit longer they would have dangered their "own" lives. So, better off with the "red" friendly police and even though, they tried to pain a picture of self sacrifice. Now, the monster they created is out of control and they are there on the streets. I am more worried about those militants plus the useless Thai police. They both killed the feeling of safety and security in BKK.

We -the Thais and Foreign expats -whoever living under jurisdiction of Lumpini Police station-- we should all unite and made an official complaint against the Chief of Lumpini Police station-at the Lumpini Police station and to the CRES for not doing their job to stop arsoning-looting-in our area -

Klongtoei intersection- where militias covered CCTV with plastic -put tyres and parked cars illegally and make tents in the middle fo the orad since 15th May--which is under Lumpini Police station- went there everyday just to see if any representative of Law enforcement are there- till 19th may-Not a single one--

After the surrender -red militias burned tryes infront of Sheraton sukhumvit - no one from govt agencies tried to put off the fire -

We -residents of Sukhumvit-feels so unsecured ever- whose duty to protect us and our lives ?

Soi 12 intersection is always the hub of red shirts posing as motorcycle taxis- anyone care ???

[exvol]

Yesterday morning on the Red stage the notion of looting and burning was mentioned several times. One speaker referred to "instructions " and we will let you know when.

Did you see the TV footage on the Red leaders arriving in the Police Camp at Cha Am yesterday afternoon, no handcuffs , police smiling and saluting.

All is not as it seems. The burning and looting was pre planned to some degree based on the spoken evidence from the Red stage. It seems this was not quite the spontaneous uprising of the oppressed peasants but to some degree an orchestrated plan to sow more dissent.

What was burned undoubtedly proves the notion that this was pre-planned. Of all the banks that were burned, the overwhelming majority were Bangkok Banks. Yes, there were others, but I didn't hear of any SCB or TMB banks that got the torch. Why is that? Anyone who lives in Bangkok knows that there are usually two or three different banks in the same area or on the same street. And why Central World and a couple of Big Cs (owned by the same family if you didn't know)? Why not Siam Paragon which is just down the street? The Bangkok Bank across the street from Paragon got torched as did the Siam Theatre. I read that the owners of the Central properties are close to the govt and the military and I suppose that the owner of Bangkok Bank must be, too. Indeed, this was not random violence. Those men in black and other thugs were told in advance who to target.

[SomTumTiger]

We -the Thais and Foreign expats -whoever living under jurisdiction of Lumpini Police station-- we should all unite and made an official complaint against the Chief of Lumpini Police station-at the Lumpini Police station and to the CRES for not doing their job to stop arsoning-looting-in our area -

Klongtoei intersection- where militias covered CCTV with plastic -put tyres and parked cars illegally and make tents in the middle fo the orad since 15th May--which is under Lumpini Police station- went there everyday just to see if any representative of Law enforcement are there- till 19th may-Not a single one--

After the surrender -red militias burned tryes infront of Sheraton sukhumvit - no one from govt agencies tried to put off the fire -

We -residents of Sukhumvit-feels so unsecured ever- whose duty to protect us and our lives ?

Soi 12 intersection is always the hub of red shirts posing as motorcycle taxis- anyone care ???

Burning tires - perhaps they had bigger worries?

[tominbkk]

...

Edited May 20, 2010 by tominbkk

[tominbkk]

never mind.....

[animatic]

The reds were and remain a cult.

Exactly.

Hammered you always cut to the heart of the matter.

Waco In Bangkok.

[angrypassenger]

I quote from the article:"let's imagine if this was Paris, London or New York, the reds doing what they have done, they wouldn't have lasted for more than a week."

The author doesn't realise that this is precisely what happened in Paris a couple or so years ago when tens of thousands rioted with arson, looting and death and injuries but the police were able to contain it within a week. Because they wanted to and did what their Government instructed them as opposed to in Bangkok. The author has to decide whether he's going to depict this in terms of a 1st world democracy or the real facts of the Thai society. I think the author is part of the establishment and by his slant he refuses to acknowledge the injustices of his country. When a society is in turmoil and findemental change is needed the kind of acts by the reds are commonplace. Look at history and revolutions elsewhere. There's a saying that you got to crack eggs to make an omlette.

heyyyy

Why Mr T will worry? He already said he has nothing to do with UDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But he phoned in - with video links -talking to UDD protesters- " fight -fight _fight !!!!!!!!!

what a liar -- bustard !

And once he commented - "UN is not my father "

Now he asks UN to intervene--

Haha when did the the UN f__k Mr T's Mom ???

what a leader -- a rat ! a coward - an opportunist who came through Khun Chamlong's hand into the picture !

leader escapes with money and family and shops around and his followeres takes bullets for him --

Now he hires human rights lawyer!!!

Shame for all Americans - sides with the one who violated all the rules of human rights- innocent killing s of more tha 2500-then Takbai--then dissapearing and killing of human rights lawyer Khun Somchai!

Mr A-----dam, born somewhere -named after another ciity- and then work as a whore for a montegran mafia