Thai Political Violence Far From Over: Analysts

[pornsasi]

Covards. Proves they are terrorist.

Used to symphatize with the red movements but all that is now gone.

I sincerely hope that all foreigners and thais take all this in consideration and do NOT vote for the reds in next election. That would be a clear signal.

Next election! When?

A timely election is precisely what would have prevented this.

Exactly .

Not excusing the arson but thats what happen when 3 PM all legally elected by the ppl

get forcibly removed

[pornsasi]

Friend passed me this link on Facebook and I wanted to share this because I think it is a thoughtful and true understanding of what really happened in the past 2 months and even years.

============================================

Bangkok: To Misunderstand is the Greatest LossShare

Today at 11:48am

Dear Friends,

Yesterday was a day of tragedy for our city and our country. Not since the sacking of our ancient city of Ayudhya has Thailand come under attack in such a manner. And just as then, everything burned. Only this time, it was our own fellow Thais, bred of hatred and greed that did this.

After government forces broke through to the main protest site at Rajaprasong, and the remaining core Red leaders surrendered to authorities, there began a well organized and systematic series of arson attacks on major commercial, financial, and government buildings. The list is long and by now well documented on the front pages of every newspaper in the country. What I found of note was that during the surrender speech, it was the protesters who were most unhappy with the declaration of the 'end' of the fight. Let us be very clear, that after months and some might say years of political and emotional brainwashing, the Red masses now had a mind of their own, and it was apparent that these leaders were quick to wash their hands free of responsibility for the incitement they had created, manipulated and funded for the past three years.

So I ask you all now to once again understand the situation for what it is. This was never a fight for democracy, for fair elections, or even a fight to destroy some invisible barrier against the poor built by the rich. Barriers that never existed in this country beyond the realities of any other developing nation. Last night was the true colors of the movement showing itself for all its shamelessness. This fight was always about political manipulation of the worst kind. It was about a continued and heavily financed campaign of disinformation that lead people to their deaths on the streets of Bangkok and then the blame was cast back at the government. The government did not lead people into the streets. The government did not tell people to set buildings on fire and endanger entire communities. The government did not use force first. These are undeniable. You cannot pose there waving the Thai flag in your hand, claiming to be fighting for this country and at the same time stand by and laugh, clap and dance (as witnessed on TV) as you set this country on fire. That is an image that will forever be engrained into the minds of many Thais.

I was appalled to read some of the comments on the websites of many major news organizations who covered Thailand. I will not begin the debate here about the lack of impartial coverage, that has been well highlighted and argued. What shocks me is the narrow mindedness of individuals who commented from around the world on our government's authoritarian 'crack down'. Not only un-educated individuals, but even the audacity of an organization like Amnesty International, some of whose members I actually consider my friends to make an uninformed, and quite frankly dangerous statement saying that the government was using unnecessary force on unarmed, peaceful protesters. This is the kind of lie that undermines the noteworthy principles of Amnesty international. The organization's country head should be sacked for writing such blatant rubbish, thereby compromising his own mission in Thailand. Do these people have eyes? Do they not see that this government tried so hard to use peaceful means for the last two months to the point where their stance became their biggest weakness? I have never in all my years of living in numerous countries, seen any government who had the patience (justified or not) to deal with such violent and ill-intentioned protesters as peacefully as I have seen here. Not until the country had reach its breaking point, did the government crack down. And I say now, that the majority of people here feel deep down to their core that these actions were absolutely and completely justified.

The tragedy is the misunderstanding. That is what got our country into this mess, and it is also what makes fools of people who comment on things they know nothing about. They think because some poor farmer stands in the middle of the road crying out 'democracy' that that is a battle of the disadvantaged for justice. But if they knew that that farmer sold his land under a scheme by the former PM to foreigners, and now was left only with the remnants of the cash he earned and is angry at this government for not subsidizing the rice prices because he is now only a middle man without land. They foolishly believe that that farmer was systematically prevented from access to opportunities... when in fact he robbed himself of those opportunities when he supported a man who lied to him, who gave him 'tea money' for his vote. And he looks to us as the one who wronged him. He and his like wronged themselves a long time ago. They shout at the coup plotters. They decry that this government is backed by military force. But the reality is democracy is a fluid state of governance. And especially one that is still maturing like Thailand, you cannot stick to absolutes. Remember, America was built on the ashes of a violent revolution, and even after hundreds of years, people in the United Kingdom still had to form a government out of coalition. Democracy is varied. Don't stand there and point fingers at this administration saying they never won an election. Winning an election is only as worthy as the transparency of those votes.

What we can all learn from this is that sometimes what you most want to achieve can be destroyed by your actions. These Red leaders for months have threatened violence on a grand scale in order to change the 'rule' of this country. Well in a moment of desperation their gang of supporters achieved that last night. Violence on a grand scale that hasn't been seen in Thailand in over 200 years. But they have destroyed their goal. Thais have a knack for friendliness and forgiveness, this is a well known trait. But last night, nation wide was fomented a deep sense of resolute purpose. That many people will never forgive these so-called protesters for what they did. What their actions represent, and all who supported them.

Thais are a resilient people, what was burned can be rebuilt and Bangkok will set about doing just that. But these protesters, what they fought for they will now begin to pay a very long and heavy price. For there will be no sympathy, or compassion, or understanding for their suffering in the future. Which is a loss indeed... Because compassion is something we Thais always have for one another. Maybe one day we will come to understand how this one man Thaksin Shinawatra, literally because of his own bitterness managed to nearly destroy a country. That will probably be about the same time I begin to understand how some people could champion his cause as something that was justified, when it was never at all. This man hid behind the veil of democracy and blinded an entire swath of our population.

The tragedy is all those poor souls out there who are only too happy to give their 2 cents worth on a matter they didn't know anything about.

I pity them. But as for Bangkok, we will survive and flourish once again.

You should also pity those on the other side who created this situation in the first place

[bkk75]

pornsasi, if you are really Thai..you should be ashamed of yourself.

Enough said, I don't want to argue with someone who's been so manipulated that he/she cannot distinguish between lies and truths.

Please enough..i'm putting you on ignore.

Edited May 20, 2010 by bkk75

[whybother]

Exactly .

Not excusing the arson but thats what happen when 3 PM all legally elected by the ppl

get forcibly removed

Pornsasi! I've missed you... not.

That's what happens when thugs have been told lies about why PMs are removed.

Thaksin wasn't legally elected when removed. Samak and Somchai broke the law, so, yes, they were forcibly and legally removed.

[noahvail]

Covards. Proves they are terrorist.

Used to symphatize with the red movements but all that is now gone.

I sincerely hope that all foreigners and thais take all this in consideration and do NOT vote for the reds in next election. That would be a clear signal.

Next election! When?

A timely election is precisely what would have prevented this.

Exactly .

Not excusing the arson but thats what happen when 3 PM all legally elected by the ppl

get forcibly removed

1.) Read the constitution.

2.) "Forcibly removed" as you say, but for cause, if they are found guilty. If not, stop worrying about it.

Last one, you're on ignore, as you are on so many peoples' ignore list. Chock dee.

[erniebanks]

Thais are a resilient people, what was burned can be rebuilt and Bangkok will set about doing just that. (What is rebuilt can be destroyed again and again and again if war breaks out.) But these protesters, what they fought for they will now begin to pay a very long and heavy price. For there will be no sympathy, or compassion, or understanding for their suffering in the future.(Like there has been before? You must be kidding.) Which is a loss indeed... Because compassion is something we Thais always have for one another.(I saw the compassion from bothsides shooting unarmed people.) Maybe one day we will come to understand how this one man Thaksin Shinawatra, literally because of his own bitterness managed to nearly destroy a country. That will probably be about the same time I begin to understand how some people could champion his cause as something that was justified, when it was never at all. This man hid behind the veil of democracy and blinded an entire swath of our population. (Boogy man nonsense. People fight for bread and butter and their voting rights.)

The tragedy is all those poor souls out there who are only too happy to give their 2 cents worth on a matter they didn't know anything about. (So all opinionas other than those that agree with you are poor souls? So why talk? Just ignore and let the fight go on.)

I pity them. But as for Bangkok, we will survive and flourish once again.

(They do not want your pity and they do not pity your losses so do not think they are stupid enough to think you pity them. You hate them but do not want to tell the truth.)

[pornsasi]

Covards. Proves they are terrorist.

Used to symphatize with the red movements but all that is now gone.

I sincerely hope that all foreigners and thais take all this in consideration and do NOT vote for the reds in next election. That would be a clear signal.

Next election! When?

A timely election is precisely what would have prevented this.

Exactly .

Not excusing the arson but thats what happen when 3 PM all legally elected by the ppl

get forcibly removed

1.) Read the constitution.

2.) "Forcibly removed" as you say, but for cause, if they are found guilty. If not, stop worrying about it.

Last one, you're on ignore, as you are on so many peoples' ignore list. Chock dee.

Oh yes of course the good excuse , the constitution says a PM can be removed by a coup . hahaha

Well its an honor to be on your ignore list . And on the ignore list of those here who cant accept the truth

Edited May 20, 2010 by pornsasi

[whybother]

Oh yes of course the good excuse , the constitution says a PM can be removed by a coup . hahaha

Well its an honor to be on your ignore list . And on those here who cant accept the truth

Since when have you bothered with the truth?

Was Thaksin an elected PM when he was removed?

[pornsasi]

Oh yes of course the good excuse , the constitution says a PM can be removed by a coup . hahaha

Well its an honor to be on your ignore list . And on those here who cant accept the truth

Since when have you bothered with the truth?

Was Thaksin an elected PM when he was removed?

He was the legal PM of THailand .

If he was not who was ?

You ?

[Old Man River]

Newin becomes crucial in parlaimentary games and he isnt going to favour Thaksin under any circumstances. His family were also targetted by reds last night

My guess it will; go two ways. the political reds will try to play polticial games ie calm down be nice and hope enough ar eignored ala LCM51 today shutting their radio and sending their gang home. The other side will be the rangers, forest dudes, mafiosa and street gangs who work for the PTP mafia and the PTP generals who face ruin at the moment. They will continue to wage a violent campaign. While there may be soem conspiracy developing over who did the arson enough of it can be traced direcvtly to the red klong toei gangs and the regioanl stuff was red mobs. Thjat goes back to the the red leaders statements and ultimately Thaksin. He wont be coming home any tiome soon

There is also going to be a strong demand for security even if it means rights reduced (the 9/11 effect). The army standing for providing security is high (they cleared the reds) while the police standing is extremel;y low (they stood around and did little and the arson was when control was handed to them)

My guess is the ones coming out of this advantaged are the military and Newin. The new DFems are wrecked with their base and the reds are in disarray and disagreement. We already have red leaders admitting Thaksin funded them and considering they called for an arson campaign that means he funded terrorism, so he is also a loser. The other winner is whoever can provide protection and security as the rich and the middle and lower classes who wanbt this will not just be willing to give up some rights but will also in the cases of the rich be willing to pay for it. Thaksin and his allies just spent a fortune on this latest escapapde and it failed and now a lot of them have money and businesses legally locked up. The mnoney game has moved masively to the anti-Thaksin camps advantage. However, they will need now to address issues affecting the poor even if they only target the lower Isaan and lower north in the short term as that will give them a big electoral victory if they pull it off. In the menatime Thaksin and his main allies have to keep PTP MPs onside particualalry those who could easily win under a BJT or Dem banner and who would be able to replenish the funds they have disastrously lost inb the last year or so by making the switch.

Considering quite how many high ranking PTP people are also on the financial list therfe must also be a question of whether the party will even make it to the next election, which again gives Newin etc a big opportunity to poach sitting MPs.

As usual I totally agree.

I just don't understand what benefit the violent campaign will have. It only makes the Reds look worse than they already do, which puts their chance of gaining power further away. In addition, with Gen. Prayuth succeeding Gen. Anupong in a few months, a known hawk whose men were targeted on April 10th, it only invites an even stronger response.

Newin is in the driver's seat. Abhisit and the Dem's will be blamed because this all happened on their watch.

[pornsasi]

Oh yes of course the good excuse , the constitution says a PM can be removed by a coup . hahaha

Well its an honor to be on your ignore list . And on those here who cant accept the truth

Since when have you bothered with the truth?

Was Thaksin an elected PM when he was removed?

So basically you are supporting military coups .

No wonder you dont understand the meaning of popular mandate

[erniebanks]

Oh yes of course the good excuse , the constitution says a PM can be removed by a coup . hahaha

Well its an honor to be on your ignore list . And on those here who cant accept the truth

Since when have you bothered with the truth?

Was Thaksin an elected PM when he was removed?

So basically you are supporting military coups .

No wonder you dont understand the meaning of popular mandate

Is it 18 or 19 or 22 coups? Who is counting.

Just give us one more chance and we can do a real democracy.

We are trying so hard you know.

If the people would only vote for the person we want, all would go well.

[pornsasi]

Newin becomes crucial in parlaimentary games and he isnt going to favour Thaksin under any circumstances. His family were also targetted by reds last night

My guess it will; go two ways. the political reds will try to play polticial games ie calm down be nice and hope enough ar eignored ala LCM51 today shutting their radio and sending their gang home. The other side will be the rangers, forest dudes, mafiosa and street gangs who work for the PTP mafia and the PTP generals who face ruin at the moment. They will continue to wage a violent campaign. While there may be soem conspiracy developing over who did the arson enough of it can be traced direcvtly to the red klong toei gangs and the regioanl stuff was red mobs. Thjat goes back to the the red leaders statements and ultimately Thaksin. He wont be coming home any tiome soon

There is also going to be a strong demand for security even if it means rights reduced (the 9/11 effect). The army standing for providing security is high (they cleared the reds) while the police standing is extremel;y low (they stood around and did little and the arson was when control was handed to them)

My guess is the ones coming out of this advantaged are the military and Newin. The new DFems are wrecked with their base and the reds are in disarray and disagreement. We already have red leaders admitting Thaksin funded them and considering they called for an arson campaign that means he funded terrorism, so he is also a loser. The other winner is whoever can provide protection and security as the rich and the middle and lower classes who wanbt this will not just be willing to give up some rights but will also in the cases of the rich be willing to pay for it. Thaksin and his allies just spent a fortune on this latest escapapde and it failed and now a lot of them have money and businesses legally locked up. The mnoney game has moved masively to the anti-Thaksin camps advantage. However, they will need now to address issues affecting the poor even if they only target the lower Isaan and lower north in the short term as that will give them a big electoral victory if they pull it off. In the menatime Thaksin and his main allies have to keep PTP MPs onside particualalry those who could easily win under a BJT or Dem banner and who would be able to replenish the funds they have disastrously lost inb the last year or so by making the switch.

Considering quite how many high ranking PTP people are also on the financial list therfe must also be a question of whether the party will even make it to the next election, which again gives Newin etc a big opportunity to poach sitting MPs.

As usual I totally agree.

I just don't understand what benefit the violent campaign will have. It only makes the Reds look worse than they already do, which puts their chance of gaining power further away. In addition, with Gen. Prayuth succeeding Gen. Anupong in a few months, a known hawk whose men were targeted on April 10th, it only invites an even stronger response.

Newin is in the driver's seat. Abhisit and the Dem's will be blamed because this all happened on their watch.

I agree with you .

Other then that actually what happen to the PTP does not matter , even if PTP win the next election , with a coalition or without , they will be removed

from power by some general (Prayuth or another) or by a court .

Why hold election in the first place ?

Edited May 20, 2010 by pornsasi

[pornsasi]

Oh yes of course the good excuse , the constitution says a PM can be removed by a coup . hahaha

Well its an honor to be on your ignore list . And on those here who cant accept the truth

Since when have you bothered with the truth?

Was Thaksin an elected PM when he was removed?

So basically you are supporting military coups .

No wonder you dont understand the meaning of popular mandate

Is it 18 or 19 or 22 coups? Who is counting.

Just give us one more chance and we can do a real democracy.

We are trying so hard you know.

If the people would only vote for the person we want, all would go well.

lol

[ETatBKK]

Friend passed me this link on Facebook and I wanted to share this because I think it is a thoughtful and true understanding of what really happened in the past 2 months and even years.

============================================

Bangkok: To Misunderstand is the Greatest LossShare

Today at 11:48am

Dear Friends,

Yesterday was a day of tragedy for our city and our country. Not since the sacking of our ancient city of Ayudhya has Thailand come under attack in such a manner. And just as then, everything burned. Only this time, it was our own fellow Thais, bred of hatred and greed that did this . . .

EXCELLENT, an emotional ( yet very logical ) expression I guess from a Thai !

I am going to re-circulate this letter !

and, for those don't have the heart to understand it ( or even don't have the ability to mis-understand it ), just ignore.

[whybother]

Oh yes of course the good excuse , the constitution says a PM can be removed by a coup . hahaha

Well its an honor to be on your ignore list . And on those here who cant accept the truth

Since when have you bothered with the truth?

Was Thaksin an elected PM when he was removed?

He was the legal PM of THailand .

If he was not who was ?

You ?

Actually, under the constitution there should have been elections. So he was an extra-constitutional care-taker PM. Hardly legal.

[pornsasi]

Oh yes of course the good excuse , the constitution says a PM can be removed by a coup . hahaha

Well its an honor to be on your ignore list . And on those here who cant accept the truth

Since when have you bothered with the truth?

Was Thaksin an elected PM when he was removed?

He was the legal PM of THailand .

If he was not who was ?

You ?

Actually, under the constitution there should have been elections. So he was an extra-constitutional care-taker PM. Hardly legal.

He was not elected ONLY because the dems boycotted the elections and PAID smaller parties to do the same .

Elections were rescheduled in October 2006 . Which he would have won of course .

There was a coup in September 2006 .

As i said to you popular mandate doesnt count .

[pornsasi]

Well the way i look at it , Thailand is retreating from the path of democracy

and becoming like North Korea , except on the ideology of course .

Well one can always think of a retreat , as an advance in another direction .

[thaiphoon]

Why is it illegel to use a proxy in Thailand? ( I know you boys use them.)

It is not illegal to use a proxy in Thailand. What is illegal is to use a proxy as a means to get get round government blocked sites.

[erniebanks]

Topic

"Thai Violence Far From Over."

Nonsense being posted about 4 years ago as if that will somehow stop the violence now. I appreciate your right to post that stuff but what do you think will happen now?

Lots of Expats are worried about their future here in Thailand and this site is a wonderful help to those foreigners who live in Thailand. Will they lose their teaching jobs because the economy collapses? Will their businesses close down due to a lack of customers?

Is it safe to walk or drive yet?

Could the fighting continue with more fires and gun battles?

Does the government have a plan other than a Burma styled crackdown?

Is it even possible for their to be reconciliation now?

I know lots of farangs who are now, for the first time, thinking seriously about going home. They do not want their children to grow up in a place like this.

Too bad for all.

[SomTumTiger]

Why is it illegel to use a proxy in Thailand? ( I know you boys use them.)

It is not illegal to use a proxy in Thailand. What is illegal is to use a proxy as a means to get get round government blocked sites.

Or Thaivisa registration(s)

[erniebanks]

Why is it illegal to use a proxy in Thailand? ( I know you boys use them.)

It is not illegal to use a proxy in Thailand. What is illegal is to use a proxy as a means to get get round government blocked sites.

Or Thaivisa registration(s)

Thank you.

I stand corrected.

You guys really are great with the law stuff and it is appreciated by me and many.

[yesdavy]

Surprisingly enough the name Thaksin still rings a bell here. For what I have been observing , Thanksin is History. Today is the Red . No one except the Reds themselves is going to seek justice for their friends , love ones , relatives and to those who die innocently without knowing what had hit them on the head.

They wants revenge and are after those who thinks they are above the law and ordered the shooting of hundreds or thousands of innocent victims.Everyone saw either on tv. or from web, how Sae Daeng was being assassinated by a sniper right at his temper.

The government can denied anything or having involvement in that action. Very clearly, Sae Daeng is an obstacle, celebrity , enemy and a threat to the government. Whoever holds the power and controlled the military is the one who gave the orders .

No one would think it is Thaksin or the Red protester. Probably they like to blame it on neighboring military who has done the job.

The ones who order the firing spree on the red protesters and the innocence highly believes they are above the law. They never thought of it as murder. Killing of innocence or another human is like having a cup of coffee over lunch. Because, I supposed they do it all the time and has gotten immune to it .

The reds now and future are a unified bunch of dangerous under ground guerrillas. They lead themselves and are revengeful to those who has murdered their comrades.

This will not end soon until the amart steps down and give way for a new election.

Bloop

Good but one error - Min size of bullets by army is a 308 and that takes out half a football of anything in front of it. The 'execution' of Sae Daeng whilst talking to the NY Times reporter was a black shirt and most likely a .222. Army would have blown his head clean off and it had to be small calibre as he lived for 3 days before expiring. A 308 as said, he would be instantly removed from this life

From my General friends they tell me he was taken down as he was no longer listening to the commands of the reds so they executed him then blamed it on the Govt but there is no way they used small calibre. It was a hit from about 100 metres within the red camp. Forensics will verify. The executioner may never be known.

So the army wasn't capable of purchasing or using weapons with a caliber smaller than 308 - interesting but silly. He might well have been killed by reds and the only thing certain about Seh Daengs death is we will never know the truth although someone may eventually be convicted and executed for his murder.

If memory serves, the M-16s so prevalent in images and videos of soldiers and snipers fires .223 caliber rounds.

[pornsasi]

I don't think we will ever get a full picture of who was behind this. Anyway, Thaksin will take the brunt of the blame, hence, I doubt he will be visiting Thailand anytime soon.

My question is what happens now? In order for the Reds to win, they have to either take over the whole country or win an election and it is easier to win an election. They have succeeded in destabilizing the country, but they are no closer to control than they were when they started. Thaksin talked of guerrilla tactics, but again, to what end? They will still have to win an election.

So what now?

What happen now ? Lots of unrest , hope not violence but thats just wishfull thinking .

And rest assured that even if the reds , say PTP , wins the next election , they will be removed

from power , by a junta , a court or whatever other trick as usual .

And then more unrest of course ...

[SomTumTiger]

I don't think we will ever get a full picture of who was behind this. Anyway, Thaksin will take the brunt of the blame, hence, I doubt he will be visiting Thailand anytime soon.

My question is what happens now? In order for the Reds to win, they have to either take over the whole country or win an election and it is easier to win an election. They have succeeded in destabilizing the country, but they are no closer to control than they were when they started. Thaksin talked of guerrilla tactics, but again, to what end? They will still have to win an election.

So what now?

What happen now ? Lots of unrest , hope not violence but thats just wishfull thinking .

And rest assured that even if the reds , say PTP , wins the next election , they will be removed

from power , by a junta , a court or whatever other trick as usual .

And then more unrest of course ...

Barely won the last one initially - damned sure not gonna win the next one.

[pornsasi]

I don't think we will ever get a full picture of who was behind this. Anyway, Thaksin will take the brunt of the blame, hence, I doubt he will be visiting Thailand anytime soon.

My question is what happens now? In order for the Reds to win, they have to either take over the whole country or win an election and it is easier to win an election. They have succeeded in destabilizing the country, but they are no closer to control than they were when they started. Thaksin talked of guerrilla tactics, but again, to what end? They will still have to win an election.

So what now?

What happen now ? Lots of unrest , hope not violence but thats just wishfull thinking .

And rest assured that even if the reds , say PTP , wins the next election , they will be removed

from power , by a junta , a court or whatever other trick as usual .

And then more unrest of course ...

Barely won the last one initially - damned sure not gonna win the next one.

I said IF .

Barely ? ok whatever . Well "barely win" is still win

Besides the PTP loosing election , what you say , remains to be seen .

Lots of Isaan and Bangkok ppl died , thanks to the governement

do you think Isaan will vote for the blood tainted dems ?

[Rideau]

This is really worth a reading ...

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LE13Ae01.html

It is worth a reading indeed.

Division is clearly part of their plan. What the government needs to do is not just busing them back to where they were right away. But to re-educate them. Many of them will be enlightened and even become excellent human resource for democracy. Failing to do so will only allow Thaksin to continue planting seeds of hatred.

[elcent]

Why is it illegel to use a proxy in Thailand? ( I know you boys use them.)

It is not illegal to use a proxy in Thailand. What is illegal is to use a proxy as a means to get get round government blocked sites.

professionals use opera tor you can configure it to your needs, even your mobiles, i-pods etc.

[erniebanks]

I don't think we will ever get a full picture of who was behind this. Anyway, Thaksin will take the brunt of the blame, hence, I doubt he will be visiting Thailand anytime soon.

My question is what happens now? In order for the Reds to win, they have to either take over the whole country or win an election and it is easier to win an election. They have succeeded in destabilizing the country, but they are no closer to control than they were when they started. Thaksin talked of guerrilla tactics, but again, to what end? They will still have to win an election.

So what now?

What happen now ? Lots of unrest , hope not violence but thats just wishfull thinking .

And rest assured that even if the reds , say PTP , wins the next election , they will be removed

from power , by a junta , a court or whatever other trick as usual .

And then more unrest of course ...

Barely won the last one initially - damned sure not gonna win the next one.

I said IF .

Barely ? ok whatever . Well "barely win" is still win

Besides the PTP loosing election , what you say , remains to be seen .

Lots of Isaan and Bangkok ppl died , thanks to the government

do you think Isaan will vote for the blood tainted dems ?

It works this way.

Reds win, government does a coup using the courts or military.

Thai ruling class win-they suddenly love democracy and back the puppet government.

How many times do you need to see this before you get a clue people.

I do not care one way or another but this is how it works and I dislike nonsense being posted that says otherwise.

My point

The reds could win 99% of the votes and they would still not get to have a PM under the current system.

Anyone disagree?

Tell me why.

[Thai at Heart]

something to think about

Suthikiart Jirathiwat and Pracha Maleenont are quite close to Thaksin Shinawatra. They are still on good terms. If the reds set the blaze it would not make sense at all.

Places burnt down are symbolic of regime/system and representation of success. However the perpetrators are sparing many business locations

Dusit, MBK, ASTV, Nation, SisaoTewes, Pullman Kingpower, all left untouched.

Those would've been the reds' targets. Remember who was feuding with Central and BEC before all of this? Who was the biggest enemy of the Central Group and Ch. 3 in the past 3 years? The direct beneficiary of the fire is not reds or Thaksin...it's the man who feuded.

The fire kills 5 birds with one stone: Channel 3, Central, Thaksin, Reds, Anti-Monarchists. Pongpat was used. Game over for Thaksin as he and reds are delegitimized, while opponents of Central/Bangkok Bank/BEC benefit. Think about this for a minute and you'll realise the missing jigsaw of this puzzle.

The men behind the blaze are the men who wanted to drive BEC/Central/BBL out of business and blame it on protestors. The fires irrevocably end the reds shirts movement for now, while Thaksin cannot conceivably ever return to politics or even to Thai soil.

The victims of the fire are not Thaksin/Reds's enemies. They are the enemies of Thaksin's enemies. Ultra-hardcore-right-winged conservative types stand to benefit from this chaos.

Watch the aftermath closely and you'll see. Those who are desperate about clinging on to power are required to create an element of fear in the heart of its population. The incentive is greater than those who are aspiring to attain power.

People will go to great lengths to protect remaining interests while the threat is eliminated to foster a rally-round-the-regime type of feeling.

The goal of the movement to eliminate Thaksin forever from the system was not accomplished until today. It is end-game for him. We lose. Regime wins.

May I stress not coincidence ASTV, Nation, PullmanKingPower, Dusit remain untouched. This battle is deeper than what meets the eyes. And SiSao is untouched.

Too convoluted. We and I emphasize WE do not know who is still allied precisely with who. Some corporations have connections to all sides, some to only one, some are above being touched. The TRT alliances were business based and the business landscape today is very different from the first days of TRT.

Whilst there are many people who could have a reason for torching Channel 3. Sparing a location, or marching into Silom where the army had a significant presence to torch the Dusit simply smacks of practical behaviour by the protesters rather than a grand master plan. The first priority appears that the had to be able to quickly burn the locations down, as opposed to choosing all of their opponents in some grand plan to destroy a family.

In any case, burning down one shop, office or bank doesn't destroy an entire company.

As an aside, if we consider ASTV, I would be more concerned if Thaksin had access to nuclear weapons.