Bitter Thai Red Shirts Promise Further Rallies In North

[yoshiwara]

I am sorry to say I agree with the woman from Chiang Mai, the Abhisit government is not legitimate, it rorted the normal electoral process.

It is also cynical, shameless and unprincipled. I believe Abhisit's objective is simply to hold on to power and he doesn't much mind at what cost.

You are a newbie on TV maybe that's why you didn't read the hundreds of topics were they explaine that the present government is 100 % legit . This in accordance with all the rules of democracy as they are implemented in any democratic country.

I value your contributions but would you please stop the hoax that this government os not democratic elected and have an democratic majority in the parlilament.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair

You do realise don't you, that you are talking to a flowerpot?

[zydeco]

World, outside?

the rural thai have no idea about life outside. Show them a map of the far east and they cant even identify thailand properly let alone the major cities. They dont even understand what a map is - cant visualise.

When I taught in a primary school I realised that they had never seen a world globe before, didn't know what it was, couldn't grasp the idea of a round earth and my thai supervisor advised against this path to knowledge as its never in the curriculum even in high school. This was quite a progressive school as they go btw

Absolutely spot on! My thai ex had twin girls who were coming with us to Australia. I bought an inflatable globe (in oz) and brought back to help them understand where they were going. Everyone was really interested, especially their older brother. As soon as I left the house, he and his uncle used it for a football.

Yes when I say Im from Canada I often get "oh nearly Africa?" and another one that makes me laugh is when I explain about North America and mention Mexico - "Mexico is very rich country like a hi-so right?"

Mexico IS a rich country. It's just that most of the country's wealth is held by one person, Carlos Slim, a billionaire telecom monopolist (sound familiar?). He's smart enough, however, to stay out of politics personally.

[gerrythepoet]

Nice to know this woman is happy that poor people in Bangkok (many of whom actually come from the same kind of background as her) have lost their jobs thanks to all the burning she is happy about. Seems nobody is picking up on all the poor that are suffering because of the red arson and violence. There is a big irony in that albeit a sad one. Bnagkok is not full; of only rich people and it is the poor who are suffering most from the attacks through lost work.

We know for a fact that the Red supporters were paid on a daily basis in cash as well as given food and their transport provided down to Bangkok for the drivers were paid. So this woman has been given time to air a fabrication and perhaps paid for it as well. Journalists not all but some need to create a storm or keep the water boiling. We need reconciliation before the thought of a Civil War becomes a reality. Those out of work will not find work in the North or North East so there lies the question where will they go and what will they do? Abhisit has worked tirelessly to sort the mess out especially with the divisions of loyalty some for the Reds and others for the Yellows if one can separate them so neatly. I believe in Abhisit and I feel that if not for him the old routine will just keep rolling on and the International Community would not be so comfortable in seeing another Myanmar appear. Try and look for the big picture, a harmonious Thailand that brought us here in the first place.

[JetsetBkk]

Nice to know this woman is happy that poor people in Bangkok (many of whom actually come from the same kind of background as her) have lost their jobs thanks to all the burning she is happy about. Seems nobody is picking up on all the poor that are suffering because of the red arson and violence. There is a big irony in that albeit a sad one. Bnagkok is not full; of only rich people and it is the poor who are suffering most from the attacks through lost work.

My Thai wife tells me things back in her village are really bad

No one has any money as their sons and daughter and husbands have no work in the big city and therefore sending nothing home

Sham on these people who just say they rally enjoyed doing this

They are only important to them selves and have no feeling for the real people that are hurting

What they are really after is to see there names in the Press

Self importance

and hopefully some financial future

The poor are nothing but pawns in a method for some to gain gain gain

Possibly the daftest post ever on Thaivisa.

So it was all about getting their names in the press, eh?

[JetsetBkk]

I am sorry to say I agree with the woman from Chiang Mai, the Abhisit government is not legitimate, it rorted the normal electoral process.

It is also cynical, shameless and unprincipled. I believe Abhisit's objective is simply to hold on to power and he doesn't much mind at what cost.

ENOUGH! Haven't you "redshirts" done enough damage to the country? Where was the peaceful protests? Why could you all not go home and prepare for an election. Was it not political parties that seperated from Puea Thai that installed this government? Where is your hero Thaksin, shopping, looking for more investments / Is there no end to his greed?

The peaceful protest started, got taken over by the nutters, and the rest is history.

Yes, they could've agreed to a November election, maybe had a chance at what they wanted, but they blew it because of their cretinous leadership who were so stupid you might even think they were "bought" by an anti-red entity to go too far and screw it all up.

Or, more likely, their "face" got too big for their brains.

This could go down in Thai history as one of the biggest lost opportunities for the rural poor.

[jdinasia]

I am sorry to say I agree with the woman from Chiang Mai, the Abhisit government is not legitimate, it rorted the normal electoral process.

It is also cynical, shameless and unprincipled. I believe Abhisit's objective is simply to hold on to power and he doesn't much mind at what cost.

ENOUGH! Haven't you "redshirts" done enough damage to the country? Where was the peaceful protests? Why could you all not go home and prepare for an election. Was it not political parties that seperated from Puea Thai that installed this government? Where is your hero Thaksin, shopping, looking for more investments / Is there no end to his greed?

The peaceful protest started, got taken over by the nutters, and the rest is history.

Yes, they could've agreed to a November election, maybe had a chance at what they wanted, but they blew it because of their cretinous leadership who were so stupid you might even think they were "bought" by an anti-red entity to go too far and screw it all up.

Or, more likely, their "face" got too big for their brains.

This could go down in Thai history as one of the biggest lost opportunities for the rural poor.

The "peaceful protest" was just an idea that could be sold to people too foolish to pay attention to what was going on. Arisaman was announcing plans for violence (as were others) from LONG before the rally started.

[tropo]

Nice to know this woman is happy that poor people in Bangkok (many of whom actually come from the same kind of background as her) have lost their jobs thanks to all the burning she is happy about. Seems nobody is picking up on all the poor that are suffering because of the red arson and violence. There is a big irony in that albeit a sad one. Bnagkok is not full; of only rich people and it is the poor who are suffering most from the attacks through lost work.

It's not nice to know that you consider that every Red Shirt is responsible for the arson last week.

[jdinasia]

Nice to know this woman is happy that poor people in Bangkok (many of whom actually come from the same kind of background as her) have lost their jobs thanks to all the burning she is happy about. Seems nobody is picking up on all the poor that are suffering because of the red arson and violence. There is a big irony in that albeit a sad one. Bnagkok is not full; of only rich people and it is the poor who are suffering most from the attacks through lost work.

It's not nice to know that you consider that every Red Shirt is responsible for the arson last week.

Strawman === that isn't what he wrote.

[gl9999]

Nice to know this woman is happy that poor people in Bangkok (many of whom actually come from the same kind of background as her) have lost their jobs thanks to all the burning she is happy about. Seems nobody is picking up on all the poor that are suffering because of the red arson and violence. There is a big irony in that albeit a sad one. Bnagkok is not full; of only rich people and it is the poor who are suffering most from the attacks through lost work.

It's not nice to know that you consider that every Red Shirt is responsible for the arson last week.

Not all of them were responsible but none of them at this moment seem remorseful and if they're all like this crazy bitch 'happy that Bangkok is burning', then they can all starve to death and burn in hel_l.

[Skywalker69]

World, outside?

the rural thai have no idea about life outside. Show them a map of the far east and they cant even identify thailand properly let alone the major cities. They dont even understand what a map is - cant visualise.

When I taught in a primary school I realised that they had never seen a world globe before, didn't know what it was, couldn't grasp the idea of a round earth and my thai supervisor advised against this path to knowledge as its never in the curriculum even in high school. This was quite a progressive school as they go btw

You´r right, then ask them to define "True Democrazy"

[Skywalker69]

Quote: "My task was to make sure no weapons were brought into the camps".

She did a lousy job.

Mabye she was payed to look the other way.

[Skywalker69]

- Frustrated, homeless and bitterly disappointed -- this is the reality for "Red Shirt" Parichart Chanmanee as she returns to her northern hometown after two months of protesting in Bangkok.

The single mother-of-two made the long journey back by bus on Thursday after a deadly military crackdown forced the anti-government movement's leaders to surrender, sparking looting and major arson attacks by hardcore protestors.

As she came home angered by the protest's failure to bring about the government's downfall, the 52-year-old faced another blow: she was homeless, with her belongings thrown out for failing to pay rent while she was away.

Thrown out by whom, obviously not by the rich Bangkok people, must have been her rural Red land owners.

most of the poor farmers and others, the ones i assumed were at the rally, tend to have family homes (basic, but still theirs) as opposed to paying rent upcountry. I assume this woman just wanted democracy so much, she up and quit her job, went to rally for several months in Bangkok for no payment whatsoever, and pretty much just forgot about the fact that rent would be do each month? And of course her most likely red shirt supportive landlord rather than knowing that she was out there furthering the cause for democracy, decided to throw her out for not paying rent....this reeks of something far stronger than pla ra!

Most likely she was expecting a big money pay off to win parliament dissolution. That's why she risked it all. She lost. Now she's bitter. I can understand that. My suggestion to her, work your profession and stop believing in fairy tales.

100.000 thb if they could oust the government.

[Skywalker69]

It has to said many times.

The reds have no economic programme whatsoever.

Land reform, education, economic developments.

Nothing.

It is quite deliberate.

For Thaksin having no economic demands means that his regional base is not threatened by competing economic interests.

Secondly, he has promised them that if they return him to power, he will be free to distribute largesse to them.

So, he gets the support he pays for.

The other class avenues are shut off.

(notwithstanding the class war bullshit).

Bangkok is turned into the enemy as a blockage to the Thaksin power claim.

Thaksin set out to weaken the state forces against him into capitulation.

But now they are stronger and more confident.

The red supporters may be pawns in Thaksin's game and they may be bitter.

But the game of going on an expedition to attack the Bangkok people is over.

Thaksin is back in his box for now.

Lets hope he stays in that box for a very very long time!

[souvenirdeparis]

The Trickle Down Effect......I am here in Melbourne Australia with my thai partner of 5 years. He is from Roi Et. His family is dirt poor, subsistence rice farmers. We received a phone call from his aunt who told him that she had an accident, yes they have a car, not the parents, the aunt, and that they needed money for repairs. My partner asked to send some money to them. It was a small amount of savings of his own. I explained that money is his. He replied, 'What will happen to me when you die?' 'I have nothing, who will look after me then?" An intelligent reply. I am a pensioner and we live on my pension. He said that in the past these same relatives looked after him when he had no money. He began as factory fodder in Bangkok at the age of 14 with only a primary school education and until I met him at age 27. He worked for a thai chinese company that paid him a pittance. He worked 6 days a week and through the night as a machinist. His overtime rate was around 7 baht an hour. His story is the same as thousands of Isaan unskilled labourers. He is a red shirt supporter openly. A deep dislike of Abhisit and a level of acclamation for Toxin whose populist policies we are all aware of. The aunt and her husband still work for the same company, have a small house rent free in the compound of the Thai Chinese factory owner. Both she and her husband have more than primary education and in my meetings with them they appeared comfortablly off. I became suspicous of the phone call. Why cant they ask the owner of the factory to help out with car repairs. The husband also owns a taxi. They are not stereotypical Isaan poor. I ask myself, was it a genuine request from the nephew who has a tourisf visa in my country and told them he had a few dollars. I understand his vulnerablility about his future. As a same sex couple he will not receive any benefits from my superannuation pension at my death. He will have to return to Thailand. I too would be feeling somewhat anxious about my future. I may have a few years left but there will be no bequest for him. He will be alone again like he was when we met and took him from his only meagre employment. I have cared for him, built a modest house in his village, assisted his parents with some financial hardship and other handouts. They have always been respectful and civil towards me. I cant help but think that there may have been no motor accident. The farang in far off Australia is supporting our nephew maybe he is good for some financial assistance. As to whether they were involved in the BKK crisis I will never know. My partner rang his father who said. 'Do not send money" A wise man. We went to the bank to transfer 100 AUD but could not as we had insufficient banking details. My partner settled down and now seems calm about the situation. I only tell the story as a probable example of the results of the crisis. Of course some of you may say you put your partner in this situation by removing him from a job of nearly 14 years. I am too old to be concerned what people think. It just seemed surreal to receive a phone call from Isaan at this time asking for money. It blew me away and of course the mind and the imagination reel, are these people in trouble due to the crisis. I tend to think "Yes"!

tell them souvenirdeparis hasn't driven for 8 months and once I was 3 years without a car.

Asmall motosaï will help them keep a youthful spirit ; or they can try a chinese bicycle .

(I once had an asking of 1500 euros for my father in law's car ,my own car was more than ten years old at that time . Even his daughter told him to forget it)

[enginerevision]

Nice to know this woman is happy that poor people in Bangkok (many of whom actually come from the same kind of background as her) have lost their jobs thanks to all the burning she is happy about. Seems nobody is picking up on all the poor that are suffering because of the red arson and violence. There is a big irony in that albeit a sad one. Bnagkok is not full; of only rich people and it is the poor who are suffering most from the attacks through lost work.

We know for a fact that the Red supporters were paid on a daily basis in cash as well as given food and their transport provided down to Bangkok for the drivers were paid. So this woman has been given time to air a fabrication and perhaps paid for it as well. Journalists not all but some need to create a storm or keep the water boiling. We need reconciliation before the thought of a Civil War becomes a reality. Those out of work will not find work in the North or North East so there lies the question where will they go and what will they do? Abhisit has worked tirelessly to sort the mess out especially with the divisions of loyalty some for the Reds and others for the Yellows if one can separate them so neatly. I believe in Abhisit and I feel that if not for him the old routine will just keep rolling on and the International Community would not be so comfortable in seeing another Myanmar appear. Try and look for the big picture, a harmonious Thailand that brought us here in the first place.

Saisunee meanwhile helped prepare food for the Red Shirts, and she said she sold her motorcycle, television set and a sewing machine to raise the money she needed to afford travel to the capital.

"I miss my friends who slept with me on the roads in Bangkok. It was hard and hot. But we were all equal. We ate the same food, we laughed and we shared our political views. It was rough and tough," she said.

[OzMick]

True, the red leaders don't want better education. How could they shamelessly manipulate educated people?

to true. both sides don't.

keep the people uneducated and they will not revolt!!!!!! Unless somebody with a lot of money can aid them!! I don't like Thaksin but his greed and selfishness may paradoxically help Thailand in the long run. The system in place is broken beyond repair. Antiquated laws,junta control & corruption by everybody including the whiter than white PM has split the country in two. The poor and uneducated mob now have a voice, albeit funded by a criminal.

The trouble with having a voice when you are uneducated is that you talk crap which nobody wants to listen to except the equally uneducated who don't realize that you are talking crap. Do you go to the village idiot for sage advice?

This leads to dangerous situations such as we have just experienced.

[OzMick]

This government must be dreaming that they will get the situation in hand. They have staged a military coup and asked their corrupted friends in court to send two governments home on very flimsy grounds. We can be pretty sure that if the DP will not be banned anger will spiral out of control.

Please provide some evidence that the court was corrupted, or even that the judge/s were recently appointed. No? The courts findings were based on pretty clear evidence; how much clearer do you want when you have a video of a cash handover?

But now anger will spiral out of control if you don't get the result that you wish for, when no evidence has yet been presented in court, or argument heard. Dearie, dearie me! How barbaric!

[OzMick]

How is the Abhisit government not legitimate?

I think the problem started with the coup. Then PPP won the next elections and the PM (Samak) was disqualified because he ran a cooking show. In any true Democracy, you would see neither a coup, nor a PM disqualified for running a cooking show.

1/ you may well see a coup in a "true" democracy when the incumbents term has expired and he refuses to hold elections while trying to subvert the other pillars.

2/ the cooking show was not the problem per se. The problem was that he was being paid, which is against the constitution for obvious reasons of corruption prevention, and the fact that he lied about being paid. Any MP who knowingly lies to parliament is expected to resign in a "true" democracy.

[Bjorn]

p

Nice to know this woman is happy that poor people in Bangkok (many of whom actually come from the same kind of background as her) have lost their jobs thanks to all the burning she is happy about. Seems nobody is picking up on all the poor that are suffering because of the red arson and violence. There is a big irony in that albeit a sad one. Bnagkok is not full; of only rich people and it is the poor who are suffering most from the attacks through lost work.

I don't understand all the hatred amongs the farangs here (hatred against the red shirts). I know that most of them got very low education and they have jobs that you farangs are looking down at. But they still have feelings.....What they did in Bangkok was ok, or at least 99% of them. (1% screw it up with stupid violence, I admit). I do mean that the demonstrations were justified, the demonstrations should just have been more in control. I live in the "poor" area of Thailand, and have done so for many years, and I can say they are suffering. They can see that their very hard work, for pennies, give them nothing in return.

So, try to understand these people and their anger. Don't just blame them all of them for what happened (some stupid idiots burning down shopping malls etc). I know many of the poor people up north, and they have a real struggle to to even get food for the day even though they are working very hard. You farangs living in Bangkok don't see this, but if you did, you should understand more.

I still hope that it will be, one day, some understanding between "red shirts" and "yellow shirts".

So, before you blame the "red shirts", think about yourself in the same situation, wouldn't you, yourself, be a bit upset with the situation?

NB! Sorry for my English, vut I do believe you all got my point

[Insight]

This government must be dreaming that they will get the situation in hand. They have staged a military coup and asked their corrupted friends in court to send two governments home on very flimsy grounds. We can be pretty sure that if the DP will not be banned anger will spiral out of control.

Yes I did look at your join date straight after reading your post.

And I looked at your user name - any idea where you fit in this society?

Same place I have done for the past 8 years, thanks.

[whybother]

I don't understand all the hatred amongs the farangs here (hatred against the red shirts). I know that most of them got very low education and they have jobs that you farangs are looking down at. But they still have feelings.....What they did in Bangkok was ok, or at least 99% of them. (1% screw it up with stupid violence, I admit). I do mean that the demonstrations were justified, the demonstrations should just have been more in control. I live in the "poor" area of Thailand, and have done so for many years, and I can say they are suffering. They can see that their very hard work, for pennies, give them nothing in return.

So, try to understand these people and their anger. Don't just blame them all of them for what happened (some stupid idiots burning down shopping malls etc). I know many of the poor people up north, and they have a real struggle to to even get food for the day even though they are working very hard. You farangs living in Bangkok don't see this, but if you did, you should understand more.

I still hope that it will be, one day, some understanding between "red shirts" and "yellow shirts".

So, before you blame the "red shirts", think about yourself in the same situation, wouldn't you, yourself, be a bit upset with the situation?

NB! Sorry for my English, vut I do believe you all got my point

Let's look at the numbers for a minute.

On their best day, the reds had 100,000 people. When they stormed parliament and Thaicom, they had at least 5,000 people. On the last days, they had about 3-5,000 people in the centre and 1-2,000 people causing violence on the edges of the protest area. You do the maths.

Even if your numbers are correct, the fact is the majority of protestors supported the violence. When ever the leaders talked about violence, the crowds cheered.

What the protestors did on the first couple of days was OK. It was peaceful. Even the mobile rallies were acceptable.

Although I agreed with what they said they were about (poor, democracy, double standards, corruption), I knew from some of their speeches ("bring bottles to fill with petrol") and who they were supporting ("Thaksin"), that what they said they were about wasn't even close to what they were wanting.

After that, it went down hill. Taking over Ratchaprasong, storming Parliament and Thaicom, storming Chula hospital, shooting soldiers with guns and grenades, shooting grenades at anti-red protestors and by-standers, were what the reds were really about. Violence and mayhem. And the majority of protestors supported that.

When it was announced at the red stage that Sala Daeng BTS had been hit by grenades and people had been killed and wounded, the protestors cheered.

Then at the end of it all, the protestors lit 30+ fires in buildings around Bangkok.

Their anger is caused by their leaders manipulating them, by the hateful speeches and lies on the stage, on their radio and on their TV.

If the poor in the villages want to do something about their plight, they need to look at the corruption in their villages. The rich village leaders and business men are the ones that are keeping the poor down and uneducated. They are the ones that made the most out of Thaksin's corruption, which is the reason that they want the current government out and for Thaksin to come back.

I don't hate the poor. Far from it. But to assume that the red shirts are really wanting to help the poor is a bit of a joke. They are using the poor for their own power and corruption.

[Ulysses G.]

What they did in Bangkok was ok, or at least 99% of them. (1% screw it up with stupid violence, I admit).

Why don't you also admit that blackshirts were mingling freely with the protesters at the baricades and they had no problem with them firing automatic rifles and grenade launchers? If you are with someone who commits murder while commiting a crime, you will also face charges - even if you did not pull the trigger.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[hammered]

p

Nice to know this woman is happy that poor people in Bangkok (many of whom actually come from the same kind of background as her) have lost their jobs thanks to all the burning she is happy about. Seems nobody is picking up on all the poor that are suffering because of the red arson and violence. There is a big irony in that albeit a sad one. Bnagkok is not full; of only rich people and it is the poor who are suffering most from the attacks through lost work.

I don't understand all the hatred amongs the farangs here (hatred against the red shirts). I know that most of them got very low education and they have jobs that you farangs are looking down at. But they still have feelings.....What they did in Bangkok was ok, or at least 99% of them. (1% screw it up with stupid violence, I admit). I do mean that the demonstrations were justified, the demonstrations should just have been more in control. I live in the "poor" area of Thailand, and have done so for many years, and I can say they are suffering. They can see that their very hard work, for pennies, give them nothing in return.

So, try to understand these people and their anger. Don't just blame them all of them for what happened (some stupid idiots burning down shopping malls etc). I know many of the poor people up north, and they have a real struggle to to even get food for the day even though they are working very hard. You farangs living in Bangkok don't see this, but if you did, you should understand more.

I still hope that it will be, one day, some understanding between "red shirts" and "yellow shirts".

So, before you blame the "red shirts", think about yourself in the same situation, wouldn't you, yourself, be a bit upset with the situation?

NB! Sorry for my English, vut I do believe you all got my point

My comment was aimed at the OP and a response to ridiculous comments made (if they really were and she isnt a made up source). Personally I mix freely with red shirt supporters in several upcountry parts of Thailand and dont live in Bangkok. I also mix with yellow shirt supporters and the majority who dont support either. I am fully aware of the stated red demands and sympathise with many of them except for those specifically aimed at returning an extra judicial killer who has unfortuantnaley for the poor and oppressed of this country mixed his own personal issues in with the legitimate issues of the poor. If his issues were removed form the equation this whole mess would be over by now with the poor getting most of their demands

What the woman said was stupid and a failing to understand that the red rally and the continual intimidation and violence that went a long with it caused the biggest loss to the poor may be underreported but is undenaibly true. By the way if you know red shirt supporters it is easy to discuss these points with them and a lot of them are willing to accept this point although not the hardcore and a valid point could be made that those left at the end were the hardcore which would be borne out by this womans silly thoughtless statement which is certainly at odds with other things I have heard form red supporters who didnt glorify in the violence and arson.

[ratcatcher]

I don't understand all the hatred amongs the farangs here (hatred against the red shirts). I know that most of them got very low education and they have jobs that you farangs are looking down at. But they still have feelings.....What they did in Bangkok was ok, or at least 99% of them. (1% screw it up with stupid violence, I admit). I do mean that the demonstrations were justified, the demonstrations should just have been more in control. I live in the "poor" area of Thailand, and have done so for many years, and I can say they are suffering. They can see that their very hard work, for pennies, give them nothing in return.

I still hope that it will be, one day, some understanding between "red shirts" and "yellow shirts".

So, before you blame the "red shirts", think about yourself in the same situation, wouldn't you, yourself, be a bit upset with the situation?

<edit for brevity - snip->

NB! Sorry for my English, vut I do believe you all got my point

Let's look at the numbers for a minute.

On their best day, the reds had 100,000 people. When they stormed parliament and Thaicom, they had at least 5,000 people. On the last days, they had about 3-5,000 people in the centre and 1-2,000 people causing violence on the edges of the protest area. You do the maths.

Even if your numbers are correct, the fact is the majority of protestors supported the violence. When ever the leaders talked about violence, the crowds cheered.

What the protestors did on the first couple of days was OK. It was peaceful. Even the mobile rallies were acceptable.

Although I agreed with what they said they were about (poor, democracy, double standards, corruption), I knew from some of their speeches ("bring bottles to fill with petrol") and who they were supporting ("Thaksin"), that what they said they were about wasn't even close to what they were wanting.

After that, it went down hill. Taking over Ratchaprasong, storming Parliament and Thaicom, storming Chula hospital, shooting soldiers with guns and grenades, shooting grenades at anti-red protestors and by-standers, were what the reds were really about. Violence and mayhem. And the majority of protestors supported that.

When it was announced at the red stage that Sala Daeng BTS had been hit by grenades and people had been killed and wounded, the protestors cheered.

Then at the end of it all, the protestors lit 30+ fires in buildings around Bangkok.

Their anger is caused by their leaders manipulating them, by the hateful speeches and lies on the stage, on their radio and on their TV.

If the poor in the villages want to do something about their plight, they need to look at the corruption in their villages. The rich village leaders and business men are the ones that are keeping the poor down and uneducated. They are the ones that made the most out of Thaksin's corruption, which is the reason that they want the current government out and for Thaksin to come back.

I don't hate the poor. Far from it. But to assume that the red shirts are really wanting to help the poor is a bit of a joke. They are using the poor for their own power and corruption.

I think this reply to your post Bjorn just about sums up the situation.

The vast network of poo yais, village heads, mafia type families etc, etc that Thaksin built up over his years in office has done nothing to improve the lot of 'the poor' that you refer to.

They skimmed off billions of baht to enrich themselves, not by hard work and innovation but by intimidation.

Take a look at their luxurious homes and fancy cars if you care to. The Isaan elite.

Thaksin will never be allowed back to harm Thailand again, I think even you can take that to the bank.

What Abhisit is trying to do, and it's obvious to those who care and understand, is to provide a better system of payments and conditions for the true farmers and workers up there.

As long as the people o0f the north and north east listen to and believe the hate filled rhetoric coming from the P.T.P. and "Red Shirt" organization, their lives will hardly improve.

[hawker9000]

p

Nice to know this woman is happy that poor people in Bangkok (many of whom actually come from the same kind of background as her) have lost their jobs thanks to all the burning she is happy about. Seems nobody is picking up on all the poor that are suffering because of the red arson and violence. There is a big irony in that albeit a sad one. Bnagkok is not full; of only rich people and it is the poor who are suffering most from the attacks through lost work.

I don't understand all the hatred amongs the farangs here (hatred against the red shirts). I know that most of them got very low education and they have jobs that you farangs are looking down at. But they still have feelings.....What they did in Bangkok was ok, or at least 99% of them. (1% screw it up with stupid violence, I admit). I do mean that the demonstrations were justified, the demonstrations should just have been more in control. I live in the "poor" area of Thailand, and have done so for many years, and I can say they are suffering. They can see that their very hard work, for pennies, give them nothing in return.

So, try to understand these people and their anger. Don't just blame them all of them for what happened (some stupid idiots burning down shopping malls etc). I know many of the poor people up north, and they have a real struggle to to even get food for the day even though they are working very hard. You farangs living in Bangkok don't see this, but if you did, you should understand more.

I still hope that it will be, one day, some understanding between "red shirts" and "yellow shirts".

So, before you blame the "red shirts", think about yourself in the same situation, wouldn't you, yourself, be a bit upset with the situation?

NB! Sorry for my English, vut I do believe you all got my point

Muslims suffer the same affliction. The Jihadists chop off innocent heads and blow up busses & planes with women & children, and what do the "non-violent" muslims riot over? Cartoons in newspapers. All manner of mayhem was committed in the name of the red shirts. To some degree all red shirts must bear that shame. Their support, their participation, their "aiding & abetting" helped make the activities of the ruthless possible. Even if it's true that "99%" didn't touch a weapon, throw any rocks, or set anything alight (and I'm skeptical), that 99% truly has something about which to be ashamed, that such a very few could make sheep and unwilling accomplices out of so many, and be allowed to steal the claimed legitimacy of such a vast majority. Invoke mob-rule to get your point across; be prepared to suffer the consequences. "Hey, I was just a cheerleader!" Maybe that's true, maybe it's not, but regardless, no defence. You could have walked away. (Yes you could have. I've heard all the blather about what might've happened to anyone who tried to leave. You know you could have. And if you and the rest of your 99% had done so at the first act of violence, so much would have been avoided.)

[ratcatcher]

Edited May 25, 2010 by ratcatcher

[agord]

How is the Abhisit government not legitimate?

I think the problem started with the coup. Then PPP won the next elections and the PM (Samak) was disqualified because he ran a cooking show. In any true Democracy, you would see neither a coup, nor a PM disqualified for running a cooking show.

Nothing to do with running a cooking show but rather taking money for it then lied about doing so - just to be clear.

[Skywalker69]

How is the Abhisit government not legitimate?

I think the problem started with the coup. Then PPP won the next elections and the PM (Samak) was disqualified because he ran a cooking show. In any true Democracy, you would see neither a coup, nor a PM disqualified for running a cooking show.

I recall it was not the cooking show itself that was the issue. The problem was that he was the priminister of country this and were taking payments for being in that show, which apparently was forbidden by Thai law. Would it be any different if he would take payments from a company that wanted influence over the politics and decisions?

It really amazes me how so many here take so lightly on the laws of this country. As if they sometimes should obeyed and sometimes not. As if one could pick and chose which laws to follow or not. That isn't how laws work. Anyone here should know it, since it is de facto how you obey the laws in your own home country. If it is legal, it is okay. If not, then don't. Even if the Thais themselves sometime are bad at following the laws in this country, you as a guest should make sure to always show the respect of the laws in this country anyway. I'll guess Mr. Savage, for example, didn't understand that part. Bad for him, though. If a priminister are forbidden to take payment from anywhere else, the he must follow that law. He should known better, if he was serious with his job.

I must say I'm really amazed of all this Bull--Shit advocacy that many of the posters here carries.

.

Good post,thanks!

[Grey11]

Nice to know this woman is happy that poor people in Bangkok (many of whom actually come from the same kind of background as her) have lost their jobs thanks to all the burning she is happy about. Seems nobody is picking up on all the poor that are suffering because of the red arson and violence. There is a big irony in that albeit a sad one. Bnagkok is not full; of only rich people and it is the poor who are suffering most from the attacks through lost work.

She, like many in the north & in Isaan, don't have the brains to even realise the thousands of people as poor as herself that her comrades put out of jobs - most were probably from Isaan. The brainwashing of these poor, ignorant people, is complete. They only want to go to Bangkok and do the same thing again. Thailand needs to allow Isaan to become its own country. They have little if any to contribute to Thailand. They never have, and never will. They only have their hands out asking the government to give them something for nothing. In all my visites to Isaan over the past 30 years mostly what I have seen is drinking & gambling by the Thai men. On Friday & Sat. night they are able to spend a full week's salary, leaving their family without. And, I guess they can blame that on the "elites" in Bangkok for shipping cigarettes, cheap Thai whiskey and the lotto to Isaan.

they

[gl9999]

p

Nice to know this woman is happy that poor people in Bangkok (many of whom actually come from the same kind of background as her) have lost their jobs thanks to all the burning she is happy about. Seems nobody is picking up on all the poor that are suffering because of the red arson and violence. There is a big irony in that albeit a sad one. Bnagkok is not full; of only rich people and it is the poor who are suffering most from the attacks through lost work.

I don't understand all the hatred amongs the farangs here (hatred against the red shirts). I know that most of them got very low education and they have jobs that you farangs are looking down at. But they still have feelings.....What they did in Bangkok was ok, or at least 99% of them. (1% screw it up with stupid violence, I admit). I do mean that the demonstrations were justified, the demonstrations should just have been more in control. I live in the "poor" area of Thailand, and have done so for many years, and I can say they are suffering. They can see that their very hard work, for pennies, give them nothing in return.

So, try to understand these people and their anger. Don't just blame them all of them for what happened (some stupid idiots burning down shopping malls etc). I know many of the poor people up north, and they have a real struggle to to even get food for the day even though they are working very hard. You farangs living in Bangkok don't see this, but if you did, you should understand more.

I still hope that it will be, one day, some understanding between "red shirts" and "yellow shirts".

So, before you blame the "red shirts", think about yourself in the same situation, wouldn't you, yourself, be a bit upset with the situation?

NB! Sorry for my English, vut I do believe you all got my point

Being upset gives you the right to hold a city hostage? To burn down the city's buildings? Are you serious? It's like saying the guy who robs you at knifepoint has every right to do so because he's poor and angry!

I'm sorry they are suffering but they have no right to do what they did. Being pissed off at the government because you're too stupid to know you're being led by the nose doesn't give you the right to screw with the lives of everyone else. These red bastards can rot up there in the North for all I care. What little sympathy I had for them is now gone. While not all of them were involved in the violence, I have yet to hear one of them express remorse at being part of burning now our city. Whatever hate they have for us 'Bangkok Elites', well I'm pretty sure after the chaos they've caused, a lot of us feel the same way for them now.