New Bar Laws..

[smokie36]

Why don't they just ban tourism altogether and be done with it.

Yeah, right? They are doing a dam_n good job of it.

Phnom Penh bar owners will be reading this thread with glee...

[carmine]

Why don't they just ban tourism altogether and be done with it.

Yeah, right? They are doing a dam_n good job of it.

Exactly, no need to worry about tourism, that one's gone already. They might start coming back in two or three years but thats a way off from now

Edited May 25, 2010 by carmine

[neverdie]

Sounds like responsible service of alcohol to me.

Of course, everyone recognises what an aweful substance alcohol is and it playing part in a large amount of assualts, domestic abuse, motor vehicle collisions and so forth.

It's a pity these new laws don't go far enough to ensure safety for all the worlds occupants & of course, irregardless of what the laws are its unlikely they will be enforced fairly.

Do you think people should be allowed to drink in moderation in a bar during the hours of 2 and 5 in the afternoon?

Actually carmine, I'm a bad person to ask that sort of question. Anyway, despite whatever we all think, obviousloy the law makers and policy makers here in LOS think its a bad idea to consume alcohol between these hours. I tend to agree with them but they have only come part way in a soloution to the alcohol problem here.

Of course, I think anyone being objective can see that there may be a problem with some kinds of people starting to consume alcohol early in the day & of course I am referring to those who start drinking then and dont stop until the wee hours & normally those ones are the ones who are later causing problems for the rest of society. I further acknowledge that its hard to pick the mark or selectively enforce the law fairly to all, ie: Allowing responsible drinkers to consume alcohol at 2pm yet stop irresponsible ones.

As I have already stated twice, the authorities have stopped short of addressing the real alcohol issues here, such as serving alcohol to intoxicated people & serving it late or into the early hours of the morning.

In a perfect world, alcohol would be either banned or highly regulated, such as 2 alcoholic beverages per person per day & when one purchases one drink they would have thier skin marked with a dye that didnt wash off easily, this would stop them moving up to the next watering hole for another two drinks. Of course all would be standard type drinks, heavily taxed to support increased enforcement & the drops in Assaults, domestic violence and alcohol related mva's would be overwhelmingly significant.

Of course, some would scream about drops in tourism whilst others would argue that this would attract a different type of tourist.

Alcohol is an evil substance and its costs on society worldwide has far outstripped the costs of illicit drugs. I don't understand people that need abuse drugs in order to enjoy themselves, something is wrong with people that do this.

I understand and agree with a lot of what you say.

However, what about people that "enjoy" a drink, maybe a glass of wine with a meal, others what that meet up a a drink and a chat for an hour. Why penalise them because of a minority?

The root of the problem is generally i believe in the person themself, not the alcohol, otherwise would'nt we all be totally disfunctional?

I agree, but how do you make policies and enforce (police) them as well?

Thailand isnt the only country around the world trying to work out how to deal with the ugly side of alcohol and different things will work for different places, I guess. I don't think anything that is done will be ideal and suitable to 100% of the people.

Its always the minority that spoil it for the majority.

[bkkjames]

I wonder if there is anything official on the OP's friend's experience.

Looking back at some newsclippings I only see this from last Dec...

phuketgazzet.com

Thursday, December 10, 2009

Alcohol act to be strictly enforced in Phuket

PHUKET: Phuket businesses selling and promoting alcohol and tobacco will face stricter enforcement of the Alcohol Control Act in the New Year.

Operators of bars, pubs, restaurants and advertising agencies face fines up to 500,000 baht and prison sentences of up to two years for infringements of the laws.

The imminent crackdown follows a Ministry of Public Health report claiming that despite the introduction of the Alcohol Control Act in February 2008, many businesses are still selling alcohol outside of the regulated hours and to minors.

The report also claims that minors can still easily obtain tobacco.

On Wednesday, Director of the Phuket Public Health Office Dr Pongsawat Rattanasaeng and Phuket Vice-Governor Worapoj Rathasima, announced stricter enforcement of the 2008 Alcohol Control Act in the New Year with tougher monitoring of bars, restaurants and other places selling alcohol and tobacco.

A public relations campaign will also be launched with the aim of creating awareness of the dangers associated with smoking and drinking, especially for minors.

In the past year, investigators have come across many businesses that are not abiding by the law or do not even understand the laws when it comes to alcohol and tobacco sales, said Dr Pongsawat.

“So far, business operators have only received warnings when found to be selling alcohol and tobacco illegally. However, as of January, businesses will face stricter inspections,” he said.

The 2008 Alcohol Control Act states that alcohol cannot be sold at places of worship, health centers and hospitals, government offices, education institutions, and gas stations.

Venue operators found breaking these laws face 10,000-baht fines and/or up to six months in jail.

Alcohol can only be sold between 11am and 2pm and from 5pm until midnight.

Violators face fines of up to 4,000 baht and/or a maximum of two years in jail.

Those found selling alcohol to minors (under 20 years old) face fines of up to 20,000 baht and/or up to one year in jail.

Dr Pongsawat said that alcohol advertising would come under closer scrutiny and that violators could face fines of up to 500,000 baht and/or one-year jail sentences.

He recommended sponsorship of big events as a way for alcohol manufacturers to promote their products.

Dr Pongsawat stressed that the authorities must do their part to educate business operators on alcohol and tobacco laws and punishments for violators while initiating more anti-smoking and anti-alcohol campaigns and clamping down on violators.

– Sitthipong Nongkaew

Now reading this, I wonder, has the Alcohol Control Act changed?

[smokie36]

I agree, but how do you make policies and enforce (police) them as well?

Thailand isnt the only country around the world trying to work out how to deal with the ugly side of alcohol and different things will work for different places, I guess. I don't think anything that is done will be ideal and suitable to 100% of the people.

Its always the minority that spoil it for the majority.

Ban all alcohol sales to under 25s. Enforce this with threats of jail terms for offenders.

This would stop kids getting into a drinking culture at a young age and cut deaths from traffic accidents hugely.

[neverdie]

I agree, but how do you make policies and enforce (police) them as well?

Thailand isnt the only country around the world trying to work out how to deal with the ugly side of alcohol and different things will work for different places, I guess. I don't think anything that is done will be ideal and suitable to 100% of the people.

Its always the minority that spoil it for the majority.

Ban all alcohol sales to under 25s. Enforce this with threats of jail terms for offenders.

This would stop kids getting into a drinking culture at a young age and cut deaths from traffic accidents hugely.

If the statistics support the under 25 group, then sobeit. I'm not sure you will be able to sell the jail terms for the young people of society tho.

[bkkjames]

What would be interesting is to get some stats on booze consumption post the introduction of the 2008 Alcohol Control Act.

Yes I know - so don't even say it.

[schuimpje]

I agree, but how do you make policies and enforce (police) them as well?

Thailand isnt the only country around the world trying to work out how to deal with the ugly side of alcohol and different things will work for different places, I guess. I don't think anything that is done will be ideal and suitable to 100% of the people.

Its always the minority that spoil it for the majority.

Strongly disagree with your stand about banning alcohol or restricting it. Operational problems of enforcement have nothing to do with this, that's a different subject all together.

Ideally, laws have to be designed and enforced in a way that they do not hurt but benefit the majority of good willing/behaving people. Laws (Criminal Laws at least) are supposed to have a deterrence effect. You want people to think twice before doing something wrong.

That is the only way where you can keep a majority happy and free, where you severely punish a minority that potentially spoils it for them.

Very heavy penalties for common offenses like drunk driving, life time driving ban on first offense, no matter if it's only 1 drink. Prison penalties for doing so.

Same for fighting in a bar. You fight after a couple of drinks, serve your long time in a very unpleasant jail. You just proved that you can't handle drinks in a pleasant way.

Hand out 'drink-allowance-cards' or add info to ID's. You want a drink, ID please, oh...it shows you're not allowed...sorry mate.

Immediate closure of bars that have been caught with underage drinkers. Again, heavy penalties for bar-owners and personnel so that there's control from all employed in a bar.

There's endless ways of regulating alcohol without affecting the majority who just enjoys it and has a good time going out drinking. Better still, you'd make the enjoyable experience fantastic because you reduce the chance of people getting trouble in a bar.

No need to restrict it like it seems to be going in Thailand.

Edited May 25, 2010 by schuimpje

[TheWalkingMan]

7-11 must be rubbing there hands together and licking their lips at this law. Is the law such that people cannot buy drinks from the bar or cannot drink in the bar. Maybe you can buy out of a 7-11 or something, keep the receipt, pass a room usage fee of 100b per hour to the bar and enjoy the cool aircon. LOL. I must be dreaming

TheWalkingMan

[smokie36]

If the statistics support the under 25 group, then sobeit. I'm not sure you will be able to sell the jail terms for the young people of society tho.

You misunderstand me. Jail terms for those selling booze to anyone under age. Really its more important to get young people away from thinking a drinking culture is normal.

[Beechboy]

Alcohol is an important part of my life and contributes enormously to my enjoyment of just the one that I have been given.

I have 4-5 small bottles of Tiger EVERY night and drink during the day at week-ends.

I harm nobody but myself.

I resent those who feel they are self-important enough to tell me how to exist.

Alcohol is evil in certain people at certain times, and these individuals and situations should be targetted by legislation. School children drinking is one example, late night drunks causing problems is another, drunken drivers another. Of course I could go on.

However, please do not penalise me or the majority of drinkers like me (and my multitude of friends) by even suggestions of a ban on the substance.

Besides, prohibition does not work. The Human Race has been introduced to alcohol, so it will be around forever.

[BigWheelMan]

My wife’s, cousin’s, half sister’s, friend’s niece, who has an Uncle who knows someone that is connected with a bar in Bangkok, says; they are joking because there`s not one shread of evidence to show that these laws have been imposed.

Edited May 25, 2010 by BigWheelMan

[spud1]

7-11 must be rubbing there hands together and licking their lips at this law. Is the law such that people cannot buy drinks from the bar or cannot drink in the bar. Maybe you can buy out of a 7-11 or something, keep the receipt, pass a room usage fee of 100b per hour to the bar and enjoy the cool aircon. LOL. I must be dreaming

TheWalkingMan

You can't buy alcohol from 7-11 before 5pm.Maybe there the only ones complying with the law.

[tigerfish]

7-11 must be rubbing there hands together and licking their lips at this law. Is the law such that people cannot buy drinks from the bar or cannot drink in the bar. Maybe you can buy out of a 7-11 or something, keep the receipt, pass a room usage fee of 100b per hour to the bar and enjoy the cool aircon. LOL. I must be dreaming

TheWalkingMan

You can't buy alcohol from 7-11 before 5pm.Maybe there the only ones complying with the law.

yes you can 11am-2pm.

[TheLaughingMan]

Sounds like responsible service of alcohol to me.

Of course, everyone recognises what an aweful substance alcohol is and it playing part in a large amount of assualts, domestic abuse, motor vehicle collisions and so forth.

It's a pity these new laws don't go far enough to ensure safety for all the worlds occupants & of course, irregardless of what the laws are its unlikely they will be enforced fairly.

Ya I think these laws are spot on. But...... Why the frik are they busy bodying around with drinking laws when the fuc_king country is in flames. Ok I exaggerate but Jesus, how bout fixing the serious issues and concentrate on fixing the country first. Pure thai logic at work.

[dumball]

'draggons' date='2010-05-25 12:06:08' post='3640466']

How come that the doom and gloomers always come out of the woodwork?

To quote Dumball

"Could this just be some sort of covoluted effort to impress on the Falang population 'We do not like or need you here in our pristine culture country that you are all destroying '."

So as soon as a law is passed it's pertaining to the farang population?

Get a life.

My tongue in cheek add on brought one out of his cage at least , these are things that have been re-itterated a multitude of times over the years concerning Falang and their destructive influence on the young and easily led , Thai are great at 'Finger pointing '.

Have a good life at this current time thank you .

[Jimi007]

I remember over a year ago, the police went around to outdoor restaurants and posted no smoking signs. And they did pass a ban on selling alcohol during certain hours. But I can still buy alcohol everywhere but Tesco, 7-11 and large company shops like that. I can buy anything I want at any local shop, anytime they're are open, even on the Buddha days, they just double bag it and say go quick... I see them selling beer on the beach everyday. Just more un-enforced laws. No wonder no one takes the laws or the police seriously here. Besides the police own many bars or the bar owner has police connections and then there's the tea money. Only when the BIB from Bangkok are down in Phuket is there a "crack down." Everyone gets warned they are coming and close their bars on time...

Years ago, we would take wine or in my case rum and orange juice to restaurants and just ask for a glass and some ice. They hadn't ever heard of a "corkage" fee. But times are changing!

Edited May 25, 2010 by Jimi007

[smokie36]

My tongue in cheek add on brought one out of his cage at least , these are things that have been re-itterated a multitude of times over the years concerning Falang and their destructive influence on the young and easily led , Thai are great at 'Finger pointing '.

Have a good life at this current time thank you.

I might be joining you in Cambodia if this nonsense has any truth to it.

Don't think about following me folks its a terrible place full of crime and way too expensive.

[BSJ]

This has to be a wind-up. When the countries reputation around the world has lost it's shine they introduce this!

[cpofc]

What i find most amusing is that everything the Thais do, there is an abundance of falangs who reckon they do it just to piss THEM off. None of these Laws are about Thais, according to many of you. it is all designed to wreak havoc on tourists and expats.

Not sure what it is now, but a few years ago, Thais were the 5th biggest drinkers of alcohol on the planet. A somewhat outstanding feat for a race of people (Asian) who naturally, biologically and supposedly are intolerant to alcohol. Even Taksin recognised this when he was PM and slapped on the current ban of no alcohol sales between 1400-1700 Daily. he also had alot of other seemingly draconian plans for controlling alcohol sales and service but they were voted down. Just prior to XMAS? About 5 or 6 years ago. I forget now. The Thais not only have a national alcohol problem with their adults. They have a huge underage drinking problem also.

40, 30 even 20 years ago, you never saw Thais drinking like they do today, as a matter of a fact you hardly saw it at all. The product of a more affluent society perhaps?

So, it is no secret that Thai Society has an alcohol problem. I live and socialise, daily, exclusivley with thais, I am a 'one out' farang. And believe me we get stuck into the piss, often, alot more than I would in my own Australian Society. (Darwin Excluded hehehe).

So, if they do bring in new rules and regs, don't be so dimwitted and narrow minded to believe it is all about YOU. It's not.

[jubby]

I wonder what is the deal behind it - and WHO get's laws like this legislated?

it's simply nut's (sorry!) - they only have to enforce the rules OUT ON THE STREETS!

Rules like drink driving, speeding, not road worthy vehicles, rude and offensive driving, curtailing -

I still randomly see people going on to the bike or car definitely too drunk to safely handle a vehicle....

As if the 05:00 PM rule would stop people from getting drunk... yeah... as if.. wonder whom serves this rule!

And thats Just the BIB

[Tony121]

My tongue in cheek add on brought one out of his cage at least , these are things that have been re-itterated a multitude of times over the years concerning Falang and their destructive influence on the young and easily led , Thai are great at 'Finger pointing '.

Have a good life at this current time thank you.

I might be joining you in Cambodia if this nonsense has any truth to it.

Don't think about following me folks its a terrible place full of crime and way too expensive.

Don't think that Cambodia will be better when I was there in 2001 they banned dancing ! yes the evil of dancing all nightclubs where told to shut down a few of the big clubs got round this by putting menu's on the table and saying it was now a restauarant.

[schuimpje]

Alcohol is an important part of my life and contributes enormously to my enjoyment of just the one that I have been given.

I have 4-5 small bottles of Tiger EVERY night and drink during the day at week-ends.

I harm nobody but myself.

I resent those who feel they are self-important enough to tell me how to exist.

Alcohol is evil in certain people at certain times, and these individuals and situations should be targetted by legislation. School children drinking is one example, late night drunks causing problems is another, drunken drivers another. Of course I could go on.

However, please do not penalise me or the majority of drinkers like me (and my multitude of friends) by even suggestions of a ban on the substance.

Besides, prohibition does not work. The Human Race has been introduced to alcohol, so it will be around forever.

+ 1....exactly what I think about it....good post.

Like to add that cost of alcohol falls into the pocket-change category compared to the positive effects of a majority of people feeling happy, relaxed and good after some drinks. The problem is, this is very hard to measure, if not impossible.

Not only the happiness of the people drinking alcohol, but the owners of bars/hotels/restaurants, the people working in factories getting a salary to make beer and other drinks...

That is where you talk real money and really awful lot of it compared to the cost of the other side of the story.

[cpofc]

Confucianism places what is best for society above the individual.

Even if it does happen i would not get too excited or bothered. Those 'Farang hating Thais' are bound to make special allowances and dispensations for the Farang Tourists, whilst the average Thai will be made to toe the line.

In my home city of Melbourne, the problem is out of control, all sorts of draconian recommendations have been put forward. The debate still rages down there.

Personally, It won't bother me. I won't drink any more, or any less than I do now.

Bar owners that make their living or a large part of it, from daytime trade, will obviously suffer. But tourist areas etc., will eventually be given a 'permit'.

Remember the long and drawn out debate and controversy over 'Zoning'

My copper mate in Pattaya loathed the 24 Hr Trading when they introduced it. He said that all the problems happen between 0200-0500. Co-incidently, it is the same in Melbourne too!

[PoorSucker]

No bar sales between 2PM and 5 PM as in the shops.

OK will that also include the rule that you can by if it's over 10 litres?

Bartender give me a case of beer Khrap!

[Jimi007]

What i find most amusing is that everything the Thais do, there is an abundance of falangs who reckon they do it just to piss THEM off. None of these Laws are about Thais, according to many of you. it is all designed to wreak havoc on tourists and expats.

Not sure what it is now, but a few years ago, Thais were the 5th biggest drinkers of alcohol on the planet. A somewhat outstanding feat for a race of people (Asian) who naturally, biologically and supposedly are intolerant to alcohol. Even Taksin recognised this when he was PM and slapped on the current ban of no alcohol sales between 1400-1700 Daily. he also had alot of other seemingly draconian plans for controlling alcohol sales and service but they were voted down. Just prior to XMAS? About 5 or 6 years ago. I forget now. The Thais not only have a national alcohol problem with their adults. They have a huge underage drinking problem also.

40, 30 even 20 years ago, you never saw Thais drinking like they do today, as a matter of a fact you hardly saw it at all. The product of a more affluent society perhaps?

So, it is no secret that Thai Society has an alcohol problem. I live and socialise, daily, exclusivley with thais, I am a 'one out' farang. And believe me we get stuck into the piss, often, alot more than I would in my own Australian Society. (Darwin Excluded hehehe).

So, if they do bring in new rules and regs, don't be so dimwitted and narrow minded to believe it is all about YOU. It's not.

Good post in general I agree! And it was during Thakin's administration that the alcohol laws went into effect. You used to be able to buy beer at all the gas stations too!

Edited May 25, 2010 by Jimi007

[CHdiver]

Sounds like responsible service of alcohol to me.

Of course, everyone recognises what an aweful substance alcohol is and it playing part in a large amount of assualts, domestic abuse, motor vehicle collisions and so forth.

It's a pity these new laws don't go far enough to ensure safety for all the worlds occupants & of course, irregardless of what the laws are its unlikely they will be enforced fairly.

Do you think people should be allowed to drink in moderation in a bar during the hours of 2 and 5 in the afternoon?

Remember in England when pubs had to shut between 3pm and 6pm every weekday? (2 to 7 Sundays)

Just do what you did back then, get a few 6 packs from the off license before closing time, go to the local cemetary and drink them while waiting for the pubs to re-open at 6pm.

Thats very sensitive of the Alcoholics there, if there liver should fail, there are not much transport costs.

[twofortheroad]

I've yet to hear of anyone being fined for disobeying the No Smoking rules. Has anyone heard otherwise?

Is the No Alcohol before 5pm just the old rule (2pn-5pm) or is this an extension? As far as I know that law was restricted to Stores and either didn't apply to or was ignored by bars/restaaurants. Again, I never heard of a bar/restaurant being fined for selling alcohol during those hours. Will the new laws be enforced, is the big question.

[neverdie]

Strongly disagree with your stand about banning alcohol or restricting it. Operational problems of enforcement have nothing to do with this, that's a different subject all together.

First thing, I really like you're idea about the 'drinking licence/id'. That has great potential & its also way for governments to raise more revenue & create jobs, they would love this.

Operational problems of enforcement have alot to do with this. Theres absolutely NO POINT making laws that cant be enforced. I have been involved in this process & one of the things that is looked at when making laws is the practicality of enforcement and regulation.

This is a huge problem around the world and what you are failing to recognise is that already innocent people are being affected by the way alcohol and laws surrounding alcohol fail to control it. Theres more to this problem that a few dopes missing out on their daily fix.

[neverdie]

sorry double post

Edited May 25, 2010 by neverdie