Airport Rail Link (again Sorry)

[Lakegeneve]

I posted your query here to keep continuity in the main ARL thread. For those wondering about the context is taken from http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/587663-bt20-fare-for-suvarnabhumi-airport-rail-link-routes-to-start-sunday/#entry5715777

The ARL is two lines, the Express and an all stop suburban line called City Line. In the future this suburban line will have 10 carriages and run at a metro style frequency in peak hours but that was planned for 2026 though pax numbers have been higher so expect a few years earlier. It will also be extended as will the Express line which will go to DMK.

Hi LG,

If there is a plan to have a metro style frequency in the future, how would this work in conjunction with the Express trains? Currently I believe Hua Mark station is the only place where the Express trains can pass the City Line trains. Isn't there a limit to how frequent the City Line trains can be before it impacts on the Express trains (as they would be stacked up behind them)? Just curious.

It is difficult to answer that query beyond what I suggested previously as I am not an expert in the field and much depends on how the line is managed and the expansion of the fleet. Also, remember that the ARL will become the backbone of the BKK to Rayong HSR line so factor in those services as well in future operations.

However, I did go and recheck the Siemens Fact Sheet that was released while construction was still ongoing. It has a table with what is stated as the "fleet size at ultimate stage (Approx. year 2039) " which then lists;

Airport Express 7 10-car trains

Cityline 9 10-car trains

It then states that the "Ultimate Headway in peak hours (Approx. year 2039)" is 8.6 mins for both the Express and the Cityline.

8.6 min headway approaches an off peak metro style frequency and I guess that Siemens is suggesting that will be the limit but really it all depends on how you decide to do your train service planning/run the line.

Now this is obviously just rough planning figures based on expected future growth and on the assumption that the line will be well maintained, managed as planned and that there will be adequate fleet expansion. There are a lot of IFs there.....

As we have already seen the expected patterns of the two services have not met with original planning consultants expectations insofar as the Express was unrealistically & optimistically expected to be carrying many more pax and the Cityline has carried more pax than was originally envisaged at this age of the service.

The current fleet is 5 3-car Cityline trains and 4 3-car Express trains.

Current headways

If you remember when the service first started in Aug 2010 the headway for both services were 15 mins each and operated without major problems given the passing loop at Hua Mark. This headway was always ambitious for the Express which was overpriced from the start. Currently, we have the Cityline at 12min peak headway and 20 off peak. The Express at 30 mins to/from Phayathai and 40 min to/from Makkasan and of course with the much more reasonable 'temporary' price reduction extended until the end of 2012.

New rolling stock from 2014

The SRT was granted money in May (4.2 billion baht) to purchase 7 new 4-car Cityline trains and if they ordered them on time they should be in service by 2014.

Pax numbers and growth

Currently, Cityline the daily average pax is between 48-50K and for the Express 2600-3000. At the start of the year the Cityline daily ave was 45k and in 2011 it was 40k so you can see the growth which tends to match similar patterns to what thew MRT and BTS experienced in their first few years. (No, don't ask me for a comparative growth chart).

Let's assume that the SRT will get the 17m baht trackwork done by 1st quarter next year to connect the terminating Express line east of Makkasan with the Cityline line thus allowing that Express trains to have one service PT- Makkasan-Airport. Whenever that occurs, I think the SRT should revert to a increased frequency of a 20 min headway which should be easily manageable.

Ideally, once extra rolling stock is available the Cityline needs to get to a around a 10 min peak frequency and a 15 min off peak frequency. That will be easily possible with the extra 7 sets from 2014 and even a 8-9 min headway may be possible if needed.

DMK extension

With the change in the govts Two Airport policy the previously planned extension of the Express service to DMK has a higher priority. If all goes well, which it won't, work should start later next year and be finished by 2016ish. (Which it won't). I would suggest that the easiest thing to do headway wise is stick to the 15 mins to Phayathai but have a 30min to DMK, essentially every 2nd train would be a DMK train (Airport-Makkasan-PT-Bang Sue Terminal- DMK). I can't speculate on extra rolling stock as there is no info but obviously a few extra Express sets would be needed once this extension is completed.

Rayong HSR line

With the Rayong HSR line using Makkasan as a terminus and the ARL as a backbone of the new line it will get more interesting. That won't be until 2017-18 if the time frame doesn't get delayed, which it will. It is expected that an extra passing loop will be built for the HSR most likely at either of the two stations (LK or BC) before the airport but nothing is firm yet.

Possible future scenario?

However, let's run a scenario where the Cityline is doing 8 min peak headways, the Express 15 mins and there is a service on the Rayong line every 30 mins to Chonburi & Pattaya, hourly to Rayong via the former. So that would be a max of 13.5 trains per hr using the line if my maths is correct.

It is pure speculation based on little info given we don't yet know the details of the HSR line configuration, nor service levels but there seems to be plenty of track blocks/space to handle a Cityline with 8 min headways and a dwell time of 30secs, an Express every 15 mins and a Eastern HSR line train every 30 mins. I would suggest that this could be achieved even with the one current passing loop. Even with an Eastern HSR service every 20 mins, say for peak, there still appears to be not be any problem.

The issue becomes more fraught if you reduced the Cityline headway down to 5-6 mins AND/OR you need longer dwell times due to greater pax numbers as you haven't expanded your fleet to match pax growth. In the long term, the obvious solution is to duplicate the existing line and separate the HSR & Express to one set while the Cityline has it own dedicated line.

However, for a number of years one can envisage that all three services could use the current line without any great problems.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Good post... great info....

[josephbloggs]

Good post... great info....

Seconded. Excellent stuff LG, thanks.

[Lakegeneve]

Probably should also mention one issue I neglected to detail. That is extra stations being built in the future. I think that we can assume that there will be pressure to build 2-3 extra stations sometime in the future along the ARL for Cityline operations eg. RCA and anywhere east of Hua Mark. Obviously, if extra stations are built it will have an effect on operations especially in relation to dwell timings.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Well, assuming they haven't explicitly planned or even committed to doing those kind of station additions as yet, I'm guessing we won't have too much to worry about in terms of impact.

Since given the pace at which such things progress here, most of us are likely to be dead before those potential stations can ever be built and opened...

[asanee]

in oct big fall in number of EXpress passengers; from previous 4000/month to around 2000, also about 2.500/3.000 less pax on cityline. This likely due to AirAsia moving to DMK-the best source for cheapee riders. And they had some promotions even to cut the fares.

between 11-14.00 the fare on CITYrail is just 20 bt-till 31/12.

[Lakegeneve]

in oct big fall in number of EXpress passengers; from previous 4000/month to around 2000, also about 2.500/3.000 less pax on cityline. This likely due to AirAsia moving to DMK-the best source for cheapee riders. And they had some promotions even to cut the fares.

between 11-14.00 the fare on CITYrail is just 20 bt-till 31/12.

I never saw SRT report figures that the Express ever went over a monthly figure of 3000k ave pax per day, being around 2700-2800 pax per day for many, many months. The reported daily ave since 1 Oct is around 2200 so the drop of around 500-600 pax would be within the expected range.

http://www.manager.co.th/Business/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9550000133319

The drop from 43000 daily pax to 40000 on the Cityline will help with overcrowding until natural pax increase gets us back to that figure probably by the 2nd quarter of next year.

[Lakegeneve]

The construction of the pedestrian link between the CAT and MRT Phetchaburi station is now occurring on both sides of Asoke/Ratchada rd. Expected to be completed by March.

This is the alignment of the bridge;

Installation of extra escalators at 3 stations has also finally begun. Pic of Phayathai station platform;

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Good news comes to those who wait... and wait... and wait.... and wait....

[lomatopo]

No wonder I didn't notice any work being done on the pedestrian link between the CAT and MRT Phetchaburi station; I was looking in the wrong area! That is definitely an interesting routing - certainly not the shortest possible. Any details on the overall length? Covered? Escalators? Will they dump you into the middle of that parking lot? Oh well, at least you won't have to wait at the SRT tracks.

Any news on the track re-configuration west of Makkasan, which will allow for single Express trains to stop at both MAK and PTY? (Currently PTY Express trains route via the City tracks at MAK.)

[Lakegeneve]

No wonder I didn't notice any work being done on the pedestrian link between the CAT and MRT Phetchaburi station; I was looking in the wrong area! That is definitely an interesting routing - certainly not the shortest possible. Any details on the overall length? Covered? Escalators? Will they dump you into the middle of that parking lot? Oh well, at least you won't have to wait at the SRT tracks.

Any news on the track re-configuration west of Makkasan, which will allow for single Express trains to stop at both MAK and PTY? (Currently PTY Express trains route via the City tracks at MAK.)

Loma! I posted a pic of the alignment so that is would be easy to spot and give everyone an idea of where it was going.... I saw a render somewhere but have yet to locate it again. The pedestrian link will have escalators at the MRT end and it won't dump you in the parking lot. Perhaps not the most direct route but this way offers some construction advantages as there is more space around that exit and also it will spread the pax via all MRT exits.

No news on the reconfiguration as far as I have seen. We should at least be thankful that the pedestrian link and extra escalators will be a reality by the 2nd quarter of next year.

Govt. looking seriously at setting up a new agency for HSR lines and ARL and taking it away from the SRT. Big political football involved in that so hard to say what will happen.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I was by the Makkasan ARL station the other day, and took particular note of their "amazing" progress on the pedestrian bridge project...

Below the main ARL terminal building at Makkasan

On the opposite side of Asoke Rd behind the MRT exits

Project Signage Underneath the ARL Station

And of course, the feverish pace of their work has led to other improvements in the local terrain...

This is on the pedestrian sidewalk into the ARL Station at Makkasan, adjoining the construction site.

[NanLaew]

I didn't fancy a taxi so I took the Makkasan Express a couple of weeks back. Waited 30 minutes between ticket purchase and train arrival/departure so that was an hour after actual landing. Usual 12 minute ride. A security guard at Makkasan recommended the walk to Asoke-Din Daeng for a taxi but one miraculously just showed up. Then it took the usual 45 minutes through the gridlock to the bowels of Sukhumvit.... about 2 hours from late morning touchdown to early afternoon check in. I reckon arriving the night before is still the only way to get to morning business meetings on time.

[Baloo22]

I didn't fancy a taxi so I took the Makkasan Express a couple of weeks back. Waited 30 minutes between ticket purchase and train arrival/departure so that was an hour after actual landing. Usual 12 minute ride. A security guard at Makkasan recommended the walk to Asoke-Din Daeng for a taxi but one miraculously just showed up. Then it took the usual 45 minutes through the gridlock to the bowels of Sukhumvit.... about 2 hours from late morning touchdown to early afternoon check in. I reckon arriving the night before is still the only way to get to morning business meetings on time.

Did something similar about three months ago. An alternative route is to take the ARL Express to Phaya Thai (they were selling round-trip ticket for 150baht) and then the BTS to Asok Station. I only had one small suitcase, so that made it a little easier!

[Lakegeneve]

The Minister of Transport has been making noises that the ARL ext from Phaya Thai to Bang Sue and Don Muang will be tender soon. Most likely that means sometime by April with work begging mid year. We'll wait and see how it unfolds.

[michaeltheR]

The Minister of Transport has been making noises that the ARL ext from Phaya Thai to Bang Sue and Don Muang will be tender soon. Most likely that means sometime by April with work begging mid year. We'll wait and see how it unfolds.

Now they have reduced the Cityline frequency from 12 minutes to 15 minutes i rush hours. It is a catastrophe waiting to happen. i feel sorry for

all those passengers who will have to wait for two or three trains to pass just to get inside.

[NanLaew]

I opted to try the Express from Makkasan TO the airport as I had never tried it before. I have done the inbound trip about 10 times now and it gets worse each time with fewer trains so despite still being a 12 minute train ride, the wait at the airport and lack of taxis at the city end makes it a longer trip. Anyway, I walked from the Brit Emb to Makkasan as I reckoned a cab forced to use the wasteful 1-way system near the station would take just as long. Quite amazing to see so many taxis parked up on the one-way (facing the wrong way!) on the south side of the main tracks at ground level. They were still filming a 'Dove' commercial on the main concourse (we had to wait while they did some 'action' takes on the way in earlier in the morning as we were causing shadows with the floodlights all over the place) and the ticket lady seemed shocked to see a walk-in customer. Only one other passenger was waiting on the platform for the trip to the airport. Such a waste but I guess SRT made some money that day from the film crew.

[Lakegeneve]

A few small updates on much delayed improvements

1) MRT pedestrian link-

It appears that the much delayed ARL to MRT pedestrian link is starting to take shape. After three support pillars were installed in late Dec, the initial spans have been on site this week being painted, ready to be installed ...perhaps this weekend?? The timeframe for completion of the MRT pedestrian link is end of April but most likely that will slide into May & early early June...

shshd

2) Extra Escalators at busy stations-

The two extra escalators for Ratchaprarop station are about 1/3 of the way into installation at the eastern end of both platforms. This has required that the eastern gates are closed until installation is complete.

3) Still no sign yet of works commencing to connect the Express line and Cityline tracks at the eastern end of the CAT which will thus allow Phaya Thai Express trains to stop at Makkasan. Thus, the current silly need for two separate services will be dispensed with (hardly anyone catches the Makkasan Express given it is hourly). Most likely the Express can then return to a 15 or 20 min headway.

4) The re configuring of access roads around the CAT and building of new access roads will be done by end of 2013 but as yet no works have started. Extra parking space at Hua Mark and Lat Krabang stations will be completed in 6 months - which means the end of 2013 at the earliest.

5) NESDB finally approved the Cabinet decision of mid last year to purchase the 7 new sets of 4 car rolling stock. Hopefully, the SRT will promptly lodge the confirmed order with Siemens otherwise the 2014 delivery target might slide into 2015 but Siemens is of course aware of the pending order. (Need to check the normal delivery timeframe for the Desiro rolling stock).

[ripstanley]

A few small updates on much delayed improvements

1) MRT pedestrian link-

It appears that the much delayed ARL to MRT pedestrian link is starting to take shape. After three support pillars were installed in late Dec, the initial spans have been on site this week being painted, ready to be installed ...perhaps this weekend?? The timeframe for completion of the MRT pedestrian link is end of April but most likely that will slide into May & early early June...

shshd

2) Extra Escalators at busy stations-

The two extra escalators for Ratchaprarop station are about 1/3 of the way into installation at the eastern end of both platforms. This has required that the eastern gates are closed until installation is complete.

3) Still no sign yet of works commencing to connect the Express line and Cityline tracks at the eastern end of the CAT which will thus allow Phaya Thai Express trains to stop at Makkasan. Thus, the current silly need for two separate services will be dispensed with (hardly anyone catches the Makkasan Express given it is hourly). Most likely the Express can then return to a 15 or 20 min headway.

4) The re configuring of access roads around the CAT and building of new access roads will be done by end of 2013 but as yet no works have started. Extra parking space at Hua Mark and Lat Krabang stations will be completed in 6 months - which means the end of 2013 at the earliest.

5) NESDB finally approved the Cabinet decision of mid last year to purchase the 7 new sets of 4 car rolling stock. Hopefully, the SRT will promptly lodge the confirmed order with Siemens otherwise the 2014 delivery target might slide into 2015 but Siemens is of course aware of the pending order. (Need to check the normal delivery timeframe for the Desiro rolling stock).

Keep up the great work Lakegeneve. I use the express to Praya Thai when I travel to Bangkok.

[Jay Sata]

Let's not forget that while this developing world mass transit system moves from problem to problem the London Underground is 150 years old and shifts 4 million people every day with ease.

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground

[tw25rw]

Let's not forget that while this developing world mass transit system moves from problem to problem the London Underground is 150 years old and shifts 4 million people every day with ease.

http://simple.wikipe...don_Underground

As someone who uses it regularly, I would say "with ease" is an exaggeration.

[Lakegeneve]

Let's not forget that while this developing world mass transit system moves from problem to problem the London Underground is 150 years old and shifts 4 million people every day with ease.

http://simple.wikipe...don_Underground

As someone who uses it regularly, I would say "with ease" is an exaggeration.

The Tube is probably my 6th favourite metro system in the world. What mainly makes it great it that it is a comprehensive interconnected network with well placed stations linked with their surrounds. The introduction of The Oyster ticketing platform made it that much easier to travel.

However, I agree with you. Many Tube riders complain of overcrowding, old rolling stock on some lines and anyone ever been in an old station on a hot summers day? (It has to be noted that overcrowding is a huge problem on the above ground/suburban network in London). The Tube also had its fair of problems as each line was built but people forget such facts.

One cannot compare oranges and apples, it really is silly to do so. I hear as many Londoners talk highly about the wonderful fact that BKK has a new metro system with clean trains & stations, as I do Londoners query why the metro network here is so limited when the traffic is so bad.

You probably should compare BKK with Dehli which has done a wonderful job building a large metro network in 10 yrs or to Jakarta which has spent 10 yrs talking about a single 12km line and still construction has not started - the traffic is worse. Even Manila would be a good comparison. Those make more sense than comparing BKK with London.

[Lakegeneve]

The first pedestrian link spans were lifted into place by Sat evening. A start at least, we'll have to see how long the rest of it takes......

[gk10002000]

I took the rail link from Bangkok to the airport on Jan 12 2013. I was staying at the Nana hotel. I took the BTS skytrain up to the BTS station that had the rail link, then took the rail link over to the airport. Slightly roundabout but not really inconvenient. I was on a liesurely holiday and had plenty of time. I had just one carry on so getting about is no trouble. My impression was that the rail link was not busy at all on that Saturday 1100. It was nonstop express to the airport. Looks like there was an option for a non-express too. I don't mind the ride on the rail and being able to look out the window. Better than being stuck in taxi traffic. A few years ago I even took the bus from Bangkok to the airport. I was staying near the Dusit zoo.

[SeaVisionBurma]

My impression was that the rail link was not busy at all on that Saturday 1100. It was nonstop express to the airport. Looks like there was an option for a non-express too.

For the Express Line - it is never full, in fact it is usually near empty. The City Line (all stops) is usually at capacity, especially in peak hours.

As per some of the previous posts in this thread - it looks as though there will be a re-alignment of the tracks near Makkasan to allow the Express to stop there and continue through to Phaya Thai (thereby allowing more frequency on the City Line)

Please correct me if I am wrong on the Makkasan works bit above. Cheers

[josephbloggs]

I've noticed that for the past few weeks the trains have all been running at a much reduced speed - it feels like almost half their old speed. Does anyone know the reason for this? It's pretty frustrating.

I'm guess it's due to some sort of (lack of) maintenance issue??

[Lakegeneve]

I've noticed that for the past few weeks the trains have all been running at a much reduced speed - it feels like almost half their old speed. Does anyone know the reason for this? It's pretty frustrating.

I'm guess it's due to some sort of (lack of) maintenance issue??

Yes I have noticed the same the last couple of times and given that the SRTET has reduced schedules due to insufficient rolling stock availability arising from some reoccurring maintenance problems this reason would seem to make sense?

[josephbloggs]

I used it again tonight and it seemed worse - even slower than the Skytrain. I would estimate no more than 60kph.

I use it a lot but I'm not going to bother any more, it's quicker for me to get a taxi now, especially if I time it wrong and just miss one.

[josephbloggs]

Also, I've been a staunch defender of the ARL all along and think it has been much maligned (unfairly) but today I really noticed that Makkasan station is becoming delapidated. Toilets out of order, plaster and paint peeling off, escalators taped off and not working. Coupled with the terribly slow running speed of the trains I fear for the service now.

Plus I saw the link to Petchaburi MRT is coming along really well but it looks like there will only be stairs at the MRT end! Nooooooo!! I didn't get to have a good look so I hope I'm wrong.

Is it just reverting true to SRT form after a promising start? Can it not be taken off that incompetent agency and privatised?

[lomatopo]

I've noticed that for the past few weeks the trains have all been running at a much reduced speed - it feels like almost half their old speed. Does anyone know the reason for this? It's pretty frustrating.

I'm guess it's due to some sort of (lack of) maintenance issue??

Yes I have noticed the same the last couple of times and given that the SRTET has reduced schedules due to insufficient rolling stock availability arising from some reoccurring maintenance problems this reason would seem to make sense?

Is this the Express or City Line, or both?

I assume this makes the end-end trips what 50% longer in minutes? More?

Obviously stairs only on the passenger link would be a huge safety concern what with people hoisting 25 kg luggage up/down stairs. It probably looks like stairs now but I think they'll have two escalators? Given how they've had to thread this walkway it already looks like some sort of Disney ride.