Why Thai Reconciliation Will Never Happen

livinthailandos · May 27, 2010

1. Thai society is divided and animosity now runs deep

2. Thailand remains one of the world's most unequal societies

Redshirts and the pro-government supporters have plenty of accusations they can level at each other. Perfect Examples Include:

The Redshirts can depict the government and army as assassins who fired on unarmed protestors. They can say that the army supports an unelected government, which it previously helped slip into power.

The government and Yellowshirts can describe the Redshirts as violent protestors, as they sheltered or tolerated a violent black-clad militia that ran amok in Bangkok. They can point out that these men set fire to dozens of buildings when they failed to get their way.

The danger now is that all the bitter divisions could lead to an irreversible North-South cleavage ( when this happens time to leave thailand )

Say good bye to tourism, exports and possible anything else

up-country_sinclair · May 27, 2010

Of course obstacles remain in the way of reconciliation, but I think your outlook is overly pessimistic.

SomTumTiger · May 27, 2010

Looks like someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning

jackdawson · May 27, 2010

North-South cleavage

why drag the south into this ?

it's isaan vs. bkk isn't it ?

(they invaded , they squatted , they killed , they burned , they retreated [in disgrace], chai mai?)

Edited May 27, 2010 by jackdawson

hammered · May 27, 2010

You kinda need to factor in that loads of people are not red or yellow and infact dont like either. Yellows and reds (in particular) compleletly ignore this group.

jdinasia · May 27, 2010

The OP misses the most salient points that argue against his premise. Hammered already addressed one.

1) There is REAL animosity between a very limited number of people.

2) Thailand's divide between the "haves" and the "have nots" is not that different than many other places in the world including the USA.

There is no quick fix for Thailand's problems but there is progress being made. The current government is taking some of Thaksin's merely populist schemes and making them functional and useful. Increased government spending for social-welfare, education, and infrastructure in ALL rural areas of Thailand will help ease the tension dramatically.

Revamping the political system and making laws with some real BITE to them for corruption and political malfeasance will go a long way to correcting the other issues. Breaking up the political machines that run areas of the country and increasing the usefulness of real politics will do much of the rest.

cyberia · May 27, 2010

North-South cleavage

why drag the south into this ?

it's isaan vs. bkk isn't it ?

(they invaded , they squatted , they killed , they burned , they retreated [in disgrace], chai mai?)

can you be a little more specific about how many people have been killed by the Reds?

state both the civilians and the servicemen.

Edited May 27, 2010 by cyberia

Samuian · May 27, 2010

.... my guess that the "divide" has never really happened -

this countries citizens supposed to have been duped into it...

hope they never allow the instigators to succeed -

there is much to lose, very, very little to gain - if any!

jdinasia · May 27, 2010

North-South cleavage

why drag the south into this ?

it's isaan vs. bkk isn't it ?

(they invaded , they squatted , they killed , they burned , they retreated [in disgrace], chai mai?)

can you be a little more specific about how many people have been killed by the Reds?

state both the civilians and the servicemen.

The final numbers of who was killed by whom will never be known Just as the numbers of who was actually killed by the military will never be known

There may be a final death count but that will be the extent of it.

mjnaus · May 27, 2010

Seriously, what's with the drama queen acting huh? Maybe cut back on the Thai soap opera series?

In all seriousness; there are always these people who see the worst possible outcome for every situation. Keep in mind that the future is open and situations can develop in any number of ways.... your pessimistic views won't do any good, that's for sure!

Peace

LindsayBKK · May 27, 2010

And as long as there are websites like thaivisa for people to write such negative thoughts I guess it will never go away.

Lucky this is not your country, nor mine, so don't worry about it.

Got any helpful suggestions instead?

I am sure you have sent emails to PM Abhisit of your concerns.

Edited May 27, 2010 by LindsayBKK

hansum · May 27, 2010

North-South cleavage

why drag the south into this ?

it's isaan vs. bkk isn't it ?

(they invaded , they squatted , they killed , they burned , they retreated [in disgrace], chai mai?)

Its widely accepted that it was mainly unarmed Red shirts that GOT killed and injured.

Do you know where Chiang Mai is? and do you not see those uneducted dark skinned masses from rural areas in BKK, maybe some of them support the red cause.

eggomaniac · May 27, 2010

You kinda need to factor in that loads of people are not red or yellow and infact dont like either. Yellows and reds (in particular) compleletly ignore this group.

EGGsactly - the Mute Majority

Then the question is, will they ever open there voice? not likely!

what makes me laugh is every headline about 'back to normal' LOL

hansum · May 27, 2010

Lucky this is not your country, nor mine, so don't worry about it.

But its my childs country! does this allow me an opinion?

StreetCowboy · May 27, 2010

NEVER is a word normally associated with walking on the moon, the earth being round, black presidents, a Ross County Final and drinking again.

Presumably one day it will be used, and turn out correct, but not yet.

SC

BLUEEYEDTHAI · May 27, 2010

North-South cleavage

why drag the south into this ?

it's isaan vs. bkk isn't it ?

(they invaded , they squatted , they killed , they burned , they retreated [in disgrace], chai mai?)

Its widely accepted that it was mainly unarmed Red shirts that GOT killed and injured.

Do you know where Chiang Mai is? and do you not see those uneducted dark skinned masses from rural areas in BKK, maybe some of them support the red cause.

Widely excepted by who? I think I know where CM is,Hmmmmm where do I live,I'm old and forget.

cpofc · May 27, 2010

yeah, I got up this morning and was sitting there sipping away on my coffee, pleasantly comtemplating the Apocalyspe and the end of the world, as I often do, and what do I read?

This.

Stuffed my day up completely.

Roll on 2012.

scorecard · May 27, 2010

The OP misses the most salient points that argue against his premise. Hammered already addressed one.
1) There is REAL animosity between a very limited number of people.

2) Thailand's divide between the "haves" and the "have nots" is not that different than many other places in the world including the USA.

There is no quick fix for Thailand's problems but there is progress being made. The current government is taking some of Thaksin's merely populist schemes and making them functional and useful. Increased government spending for social-welfare, education, and infrastructure in ALL rural areas of Thailand will help ease the tension dramatically.

Revamping the political system and making laws with some real BITE to them for corruption and political malfeasance will go a long way to correcting the other issues. Breaking up the political machines that run areas of the country and increasing the usefulness of real politics will do much of the rest.

Agree, the OPs message is way way too pessimistic and buys into the spin of 'class war' etc., which (in it's current usage) is spin and not much more.

The term 'reconciliation' is also overused.

As already said, yes there is inequality in Thailand (and that's not nice) but there is inequality in every country (US and many more countries, Japan has a sizeable poor and homeless population). In fact there is slowly more and more recognition that 'the gap' is one downside of capitalism, which is why many countries (Sweden, Norway, and more, have implemented strong policies and programs to redress the balance). Persoanlly I believe the time will come when some factors will be seen as needing to be outside of the capitalist appraoch, health care as one example.)

Yes the Thai gap is sizeable (not good) but the statement "one of the biggest in the world" is not true.

All society goes through slow changes, some become more sophisticated more quickly than others, and that's got very strong connection to corruption, and until all Thais stop accepting corruption and stop contributing to corruption (both the poor and the rich) then progress will be slow and the big gap will remain.

IMHO PM Abhisit, with Khun Korn, has already set in motion, many months ago, policy directives and actions which will ultimately reduce the gap, provide more opportunities and sustainable better quality of life for all Thais, and given time I believe Abhisit will make strong inroads into corruption, change the police to make them accountable and more profesional, and more.

I sincerely hope that the adjustments to the constitution include:

- Provisons to ensure that one person / one group can never gain unchallengabel power

- Much stronger checks and balances with some factors being at arms length from the government of the day.

- The requirement that all parties must have a fully detailed specific manifesto.

- The requirment that at election times all parties / all candidates must participate in moderated debate about their policies and their plans, and including a process whereby the public can anonamously submit questions to the candidates which they must answer publically. And with the public encouraged strongly to attend and enouraged to take part.

- Much stronger penalties for vote buying, punishing both parties; those who pay and those who accept payment, including jail.

And let's please remember that thaksins red shirts and the PT and their cronies want a return to a constitution which make vote buying easy and alsost without punishment. If this happens then we go backwards by 20 years or more. Do you call that reconciliation?

Edited May 27, 2010 by scorecard

Heng · May 27, 2010

No issues exporting here. Not even a minor dip in sales and shipments as the APCs were flattening the Ratchaprasong barricades and gunning down Reds (it's okay if you hit them in the knees).

hansum · May 27, 2010

North-South cleavage

why drag the south into this ?

it's isaan vs. bkk isn't it ?

(they invaded , they squatted , they killed , they burned , they retreated [in disgrace], chai mai?)

Its widely accepted that it was mainly unarmed Red shirts that GOT killed and injured.

Do you know where Chiang Mai is? and do you not see those uneducted dark skinned masses from rural areas in BKK, maybe some of them support the red cause.

Widely excepted by who? I think I know where CM is,Hmmmmm where do I live,I'm old and forget.

By the media who were on the ground, and by the army stating how many of their people had been killed.

But please if you believe im making this up and im lying plese prove otherwise.

Ps dont answer questions that werent aimed at you.

clausewitz · May 27, 2010

I think with primeminister Abhist we have the Asian Nelson Mandela. Abhisit always talks about reconciliation- in fact that was his first speech when he came into power almost 18months ago - and he has continually stressed it. His way of showing forgiveness is really Gandhian and it is thanks to him that we now have this great victory last week.