Expats Views Sought On Bangkok's Restoration

[kaengk]

@Peaceful Warrior

Did you live here under Thaksin and his cult of personality style iron fisted rule ? That was far closer to a chinese style of dictatorship than life under Abhisit ever has been.

The red shirt leaders speeches bear remarkable similarities to the khmer rouge in Kampuchea and the maoists during the cultural revolution. Full of vitriolic lies and exhortations to violence and destruction.

Whether you liked Thaksin or not, the Thaksin years were wonderful years for Thailand, probably the best that I've lived here. Even anti-Thaksin free speech activist Supinya proclaimed that the junta and its lapdog govt were more dangerous than Thaksin ever was. If you talked to your maids, the security staff in your building and other Reds, you would see that they are largely nice folks looking for a better future.

[rubl]

The more I read in this thread the more I get the feeling anyone asking expats having posted here must be daft

[lungmi]

That you can get:

1. Stop fooling the people playing this fake left-right paradigm, it's not football but a country!

2. Tell the NWO to F themselves and stop the 'war of terror' Agenda they present to the public

3. Get Abhisit out, the liar Nr.1 : one day "We don't use live ammunition" people die; next day "Now we use live ammo" !?!

4. Let the elites pay more than 150 Baht for their maids a day or better tax them!

5. Being G20 state obviously you have to play stuff like that on the road to more surveillance, ppl know that

6. Commemorate the death of the 88 people, mostly unarmed! and not the death of a fkn shopping mall

7. Get the rich ones and their 150 Baht ice-cram eating, iPhone twittering brats some education that teaches real values, like the life of others and not just how to wring out the next bunch of slave laborers and illegal immigrants which built BKK!

8. Get rid of the military rulers which actually via commands of their rich friends hold the country in their grip.

9. Tell the cyber-police to go and think a moment if they really want China style ruler-ship and 1984 happen to THEM.

10. Ask the real questions, like why are the Democrats not yet dissolved for their illegal party contributions? 236m Bt.?!?

11. Stop media censorship and so called ISA, curfew B$, this is not North Korea or China.

Get a life and move out of those control grid Moloch's like Bangkok. City of Angels and Demons...

Start thinking for yourselves.

All the best,

may Thailand reconcile and the people live in peace together, sharing the wealth of this beautiful, rich country!

Mr. Amsterdam has the son of Pol Pot on his payroll. He is very really busy now.

[Theyreallrubbish]

Many of us believe that Central World should not be rebuilt. Instead a People's Park should be built with a large memorial to the citizens slaughtered by the military in the 1976, 1992 and 2010 pro-democracy demonstrations.

My recommendation to increase and expedite investment and tourism

1. Make it easier to get work permit for the investors

2. Provide security in the tourist area especially Rachataprosong, buy getting especial security force to guard it instead of useless police

3. Provide incentive for the business that have been effected, for example No vet for 6 to 12 month

4. Organize especial programs like music, fair, do not need another night Bazar

5. Need special BTS and MRT fair for next few month

6. Lower the hotel prices and let the world know

I am sure more things can and should be done but these are few quick ones come to my mind

Certainly if you want foreign visitors making the visa and work permit part easier and more predictable will encourage that.

I'm not sure if there's a security problem in that area. My security concerns are that foreigners are increasingly being targeted by Thai criminals, with a not irrational belief that since the foreigners leave, they're more likely to have the police not pursue it. It used to be that crimes against foreigners got extra police attention as they wanted foreigners to feel Thailand was safe. Since criminals knew that they avoided committing crimes against foreigners. Police need to stop delaying investigating crimes against foreigners on the hope they'll leave before any work needs to be done and start making crimes against foreigners at least as risky as crimes against Thais.

I'd also say go back to the old way of not enforcing Thai religious holidays or other restrictions for foreigners. For some poor guy that has worked 50 weeks for a 2 week holiday and then arrives needing to relax and finds that for half his holiday he can't drink is going to make him go somewhere else next time.

Start an education/advertising program like Singapore did telling the Thai people that foreign tourists and investors are important to Thailand so please make them feel welcome. Again, Thailand used to do this and the sense of being made welcome and that the Thais wanted you to love Thailand was much stronger.

All 4 of these things are just going back to the way Thailand was when it became a great success attracting tourists and investors. Thailand seems to have become more anti-foreigner and has taken its continuing success so much for granted that they've made themselves less attractive and less competitive.

None of this is Bangkok specific. For Bangkok's restoration specifically, if you're rebuilding then enforce codes to widen sidewalks/pavements and improve the street furniture. And try to keep the areas cleaner. I see foreigners walking in areas where the sidewalks are good and the city feels safer and more attractive. Where possible plant more trees. Bangkok has one of the smallest proportions of its city green of any major city in the world.

Hide all the telephone and electrical wires wherever possible.

Make crossing the road safer as well by improving crossings so people feel their kids are safer. Put up protection barriers at kerbs where possible.

I'd agree to hold events, but make more of them cultural rather than just shopping events. We tend to forget that the exoticness of being in Asia attracts people. Having a Gucci sale doesn't promote that.

Stop the police scams for cigarette butts. Make taxis always use the meter. Generally just reduce the unnecessary aggravations.

[lungmi]

Governor Sukhumbhand Paripatra yesterday told the Joint Foreign Chambers of Commerce in Thailand that Bangkok nowadays did not belong only to Thais but also to foreigners who work and live in the city.

They should be invited to share their ideas on rehabilitating their current hometown together with the locals.

The BMA plans to hold a forum for expats to provide input for restoration efforts and coordinate with state agencies.

He also pointed out that he is not interested in any opinions from anyone who has ever posted on Thai Visa.

I understand, he cannot realize the difference between the posters. I had the same problem a the beginning of my posts. But I learnt quickly.

[TheLaughingMan]

Many of us believe that Central World should not be rebuilt. Instead a People's Park should be built with a large memorial to the citizens slaughtered by the military in the 1976, 1992 and 2010 pro-democracy demonstrations.

Memorial? Are you completely serious? Comparing 1976 and 1992 to 2010?! How I wish Thaksin had been in charge for these "demonstrations", he would have murdered Thousands...AGAIN. Then you would have CAUSE for a memorial. But no they have a reasonable and responsible government who kept loss of life to a minimum against all odds and efforts by Thaksin to create as much anarchy as possible hoping to force the government to kill more so he can get the government to step down.

[Ulysses G.]

Whether you liked Thaksin or not, the Thaksin years were wonderful years for Thailand, probably the best that I've lived here.

I have no problem with that (although quite a few former alleged drug dealers and their families might). However, should anyone who was complicit in the burning of Bangkok ever hold office again?

Edited May 28, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[TheLaughingMan]

@Peaceful Warrior

Did you live here under Thaksin and his cult of personality style iron fisted rule ? That was far closer to a chinese style of dictatorship than life under Abhisit ever has been.

The red shirt leaders speeches bear remarkable similarities to the khmer rouge in Kampuchea and the maoists during the cultural revolution. Full of vitriolic lies and exhortations to violence and destruction.

Whether you liked Thaksin or not, the Thaksin years were wonderful years for Thailand, probably the best that I've lived here. Even anti-Thaksin free speech activist Supinya proclaimed that the junta and its lapdog govt were more dangerous than Thaksin ever was. If you talked to your maids, the security staff in your building and other Reds, you would see that they are largely nice folks looking for a better future.

Then you are deaf and.... well. Thousands killed under his "reign" were wonderful years and the best youve lived here? You like violence and death or are you simply unaware?

[kaengk]

Many of us believe that Central World should not be rebuilt. Instead a People's Park should be built with a large memorial to the citizens slaughtered by the military in the 1976, 1992 and 2010 pro-democracy demonstrations.

Memorial? Are you completely serious? Comparing 1976 and 1992 to 2010?! How I wish Thaksin had been in charge for these "demonstrations", he would have murdered Thousands...AGAIN. Then you would have CAUSE for a memorial. But no they have a reasonable and responsible government who kept loss of life to a minimum against all odds and efforts by Thaksin to create as much anarchy as possible hoping to force the government to kill more so he can get the government to step down.

Thaksin gently relented when the military took over. He could have easily caused bloodshed but showed patience and restraint. Samak could have caused bloodshed over the ridiculous cooking show coup, but instead he manned up and stepped down as Abhisit should have.

[rubl]

Many of us believe that Central World should not be rebuilt. Instead a People's Park should be built with a large memorial to the citizens slaughtered by the military in the 1976, 1992 and 2010 pro-democracy demonstrations.

Memorial? Are you completely serious? Comparing 1976 and 1992 to 2010?! How I wish Thaksin had been in charge for these "demonstrations", he would have murdered Thousands...AGAIN. Then you would have CAUSE for a memorial. But no they have a reasonable and responsible government who kept loss of life to a minimum against all odds and efforts by Thaksin to create as much anarchy as possible hoping to force the government to kill more so he can get the government to step down.

Thaksin gently relented when the military took over. He could have easily caused bloodshed but showed patience and restraint. Samak could have caused bloodshed over the ridiculous cooking show coup, but instead he manned up and stepped down as Abhisit should have.

Can we go back to discussing the topic of this thread "expats views sought on BKK's restoration"?

[TheLaughingMan]

Many of us believe that Central World should not be rebuilt. Instead a People's Park should be built with a large memorial to the citizens slaughtered by the military in the 1976, 1992 and 2010 pro-democracy demonstrations.

Memorial? Are you completely serious? Comparing 1976 and 1992 to 2010?! How I wish Thaksin had been in charge for these "demonstrations", he would have murdered Thousands...AGAIN. Then you would have CAUSE for a memorial. But no they have a reasonable and responsible government who kept loss of life to a minimum against all odds and efforts by Thaksin to create as much anarchy as possible hoping to force the government to kill more so he can get the government to step down.

Thaksin gently relented when the military took over. He could have easily caused bloodshed but showed patience and restraint. Samak could have caused bloodshed over the ridiculous cooking show coup, but instead he manned up and stepped down as Abhisit should have.

You really believe all that? THAKSIN WASNT EVEN PRIME MINISTER, he wouldnt leave after his term! They had to coup just to get him to do what he was supposed to do. He was completely on the path to being the Tyrant of Thailand. He refused to give up rule. You really dont know this?

[Xangsamhua]

Rebuild Narayana Phand (opp. Central World). That was a popular attraction for visitors for many years and, downstairs, had a market atmosphere. Upstairs was more upmarket. Sending the stallholders to Amarin Plaza has been disastrous for them and visitors alike (the place is like a morgue). Some went to Pratunam Center. I don't know how they've got on.

[Ulysses G.]

Many of us believe that Central World should not be rebuilt. Instead a People's Park should be built with a large memorial to the citizens slaughtered by the military in the 1976, 1992 and 2010 pro-democracy demonstrations.

My recommendation to increase and expedite investment and tourism

1. Make it easier to get work permit for the investors

2. Provide security in the tourist area especially Rachataprosong, buy getting especial security force to guard it instead of useless police

3. Provide incentive for the business that have been effected, for example No vet for 6 to 12 month

4. Organize especial programs like music, fair, do not need another night Bazar

5. Need special BTS and MRT fair for next few month

6. Lower the hotel prices and let the world know

I am sure more things can and should be done but these are few quick ones come to my mind

Certainly if you want foreign visitors making the visa and work permit part easier and more predictable will encourage that.

I'm not sure if there's a security problem in that area. My security concerns are that foreigners are increasingly being targeted by Thai criminals, with a not irrational belief that since the foreigners leave, they're more likely to have the police not pursue it. It used to be that crimes against foreigners got extra police attention as they wanted foreigners to feel Thailand was safe. Since criminals knew that they avoided committing crimes against foreigners. Police need to stop delaying investigating crimes against foreigners on the hope they'll leave before any work needs to be done and start making crimes against foreigners at least as risky as crimes against Thais.

I'd also say go back to the old way of not enforcing Thai religious holidays or other restrictions for foreigners. For some poor guy that has worked 50 weeks for a 2 week holiday and then arrives needing to relax and finds that for half his holiday he can't drink is going to make him go somewhere else next time.

Start an education/advertising program like Singapore did telling the Thai people that foreign tourists and investors are important to Thailand so please make them feel welcome. Again, Thailand used to do this and the sense of being made welcome and that the Thais wanted you to love Thailand was much stronger.

All 4 of these things are just going back to the way Thailand was when it became a great success attracting tourists and investors. Thailand seems to have become more anti-foreigner and has taken its continuing success so much for granted that they've made themselves less attractive and less competitive.

None of this is Bangkok specific. For Bangkok's restoration specifically, if you're rebuilding then enforce codes to widen sidewalks/pavements and improve the street furniture. And try to keep the areas cleaner. I see foreigners walking in areas where the sidewalks are good and the city feels safer and more attractive. Where possible plant more trees. Bangkok has one of the smallest proportions of its city green of any major city in the world.

Hide all the telephone and electrical wires wherever possible.

Make crossing the road safer as well by improving crossings so people feel their kids are safer. Put up protection barriers at kerbs where possible.

I'd agree to hold events, but make more of them cultural rather than just shopping events. We tend to forget that the exoticness of being in Asia attracts people. Having a Gucci sale doesn't promote that.

Stop the police scams for cigarette butts. Make taxis always use the meter. Generally just reduce the unnecessary aggravations.

If they elect Tony Blair as the next PM, all their problems will be solved.

[kaengk]

Many of us believe that Central World should not be rebuilt. Instead a People's Park should be built with a large memorial to the citizens slaughtered by the military in the 1976, 1992 and 2010 pro-democracy demonstrations.

Memorial? Are you completely serious? Comparing 1976 and 1992 to 2010?! How I wish Thaksin had been in charge for these "demonstrations", he would have murdered Thousands...AGAIN. Then you would have CAUSE for a memorial. But no they have a reasonable and responsible government who kept loss of life to a minimum against all odds and efforts by Thaksin to create as much anarchy as possible hoping to force the government to kill more so he can get the government to step down.

Thaksin gently relented when the military took over. He could have easily caused bloodshed but showed patience and restraint. Samak could have caused bloodshed over the ridiculous cooking show coup, but instead he manned up and stepped down as Abhisit should have.

You really believe all that? THAKSIN WASNT EVEN PRIME MINISTER, he wouldnt leave after his term! They had to coup just to get him to do what he was supposed to do. He was completely on the path to being the Tyrant of Thailand. He refused to give up rule. You really dont know this?

Sounds like someone's been drinking the govt-media kool-aid rather heavily!

[anotheruser]

Many of us believe that Central World should not be rebuilt. Instead a People's Park should be built with a large memorial to the citizens slaughtered by the military in the 1976, 1992 and 2010 pro-democracy demonstrations.

Some, inappropriately, emotive words there.

No doubt you would like to call "Thaksin Park" ?

Not our business, let the Thais decide for themselves

Given that they are inviting expat opinions I would say they just made it our business. The repeated comments if you aren't Thai you have no right to any opinion are so ignorant and redundant. If such was really the case no government anywhere in the world would have foreign affairs departments.

[Ulysses G.]

Thaksin gently relented when the military took over.

He didn't have much choice. He wasn't even in the country.

[borisloosebrain]

@Peaceful Warrior

Did you live here under Thaksin and his cult of personality style iron fisted rule ? That was far closer to a chinese style of dictatorship than life under Abhisit ever has been.

The red shirt leaders speeches bear remarkable similarities to the khmer rouge in Kampuchea and the maoists during the cultural revolution. Full of vitriolic lies and exhortations to violence and destruction.

Whether you liked Thaksin or not, the Thaksin years were wonderful years for Thailand, probably the best that I've lived here. Even anti-Thaksin free speech activist Supinya proclaimed that the junta and its lapdog govt were more dangerous than Thaksin ever was. If you talked to your maids, the security staff in your building and other Reds, you would see that they are largely nice folks looking for a better future.

'Talked to my maids' - that's funny ! never had a maid ( nor a gf who cleans up my mess). But i talk to plenty of maids waiters security guys taxi drivers etc

I talk mostly to working class thais- about all sorts of things -often politics - and yes they are very nice folks -who like my thai family just want better opportunities for themselves and their kids. Thaksin was fortunate to be in office when the world economy was booming and Abhisit has been unlucky to have had to deal with the GFC.

I find Thaksin to be far more dishonest and dangerous than any other leader I've seen here. Nothing personal against the guy - but does thailand need a divide and rule guy like Thaksin who has to take a cut of everything for himself. Abhisit for now seems a way better bet for thailands future... IMO - certainly less scary than TSs' autocratic reign.

[toenail]

I like the park idea, but since it is privately owned that idea will not get off the ground.

Go for a top-notch designed skyscraper with exclusive condos, 5 star hotel and such (has to make money) but make the first 4 ? floors into a cultural -art center showing the various handicrafts that come from the various provinces of Thailand (present or past)-- Similar to the Cultural-Art center in Kuala Lumpur but at a bigger scale with the interior being built in Thai-Khmer architecture, replicas of wooden houses with the Ngao roofs and other buildings of interest. Yes, a bit "Vegas- Disney" style but after all, this is for tourist in the city. Also,have one huge amusement park inside the air conditioned building for families to go to ..and rebuild the children's library that once was at Central. Outside, have a large courtyard garden which would be in memory of those who died in the political crisis of '10.--Yes, leaning more toward the family tourist. Plenty in BKK already for the single tourist.

[kaengk]

Thaksin gently relented when the military took over.

He didn't have much choice. He wasn't even in the country.

I'd like to agree with you, how could he possibly retaliate against the military when he wasn't even in the country? Tell that to Abhisit and his masters!

[delboygoeslarge]

MODS: please close this thread as it has turned into yet another poliitcal rant that is WAY off topic. please repost so people with a constructive view for the rebuilding city of bangkok can have there say.....

[MAJIC]

Normally our views are never asked for,and actively resisted,considering Bangkok is heavily financed by Tourism.

Call me cynical if you want,but I can smell Farang cash injections required here , rather than mere ideas and advisory

input.

[tb86]

Thaksin gently relented when the military took over.

He didn't have much choice. He wasn't even in the country.

oh yeah hes given up oh so gently,,, who cares about this guy anymore as he has made himself a non issue... we all know by now he and his family will never be able to return to thailand, well unless theyre looking forward to living out their lives in a bomb shelter... cant feel bad for em, could have done his 2 year bit and been out already shopping at gaysorn

Anyways bact to the topic, guess we gotta attend some meetings to find out if and or when there will be any ways of getting any imput in,

Edited May 28, 2010 by tb86

[tangoll]

The real memorials to destruction do not get rebuilt, such as the atomic bomb memorials in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Chernobyl, the World Trade Center in New York Ciity (even though plans are to rebuild it), and Pompeii. Leave the burnt out hulk of CW as it is, open only the part that can be opened, and, if in the future, the red shirts want to gather again in Bangkok, let them gather inside the burnt out hulk, and keep them there.

[Scully]

BANGKOK: -- The Bangkok Metropolitan Administration will actively seek suggestions from expatriates on ways to revive the capital after the political crisis ebbs.

Governor Sukhumbhand Paripatra yesterday told the Joint Foreign Chambers of Commerce in Thailand that Bangkok nowadays did not belong only to Thais but also to foreigners who work and live in the city.

They should be invited to share their ideas on rehabilitating their current hometown together with the locals.

The BMA plans to hold a forum for expats to provide input for restoration efforts and coordinate with state agencies.

QUOTE

This maybe an empty gesture, however if an educated Govenor who knows how to read English wanted to do a little homework he may target one of the biggest expat sites on the internet. I believe Thai Visa to be one of them and as a person living in Thailand I would be embarrassed to be classed as one of the idiots that post on here who argue and fight all the time over nonesense.

Why not use those brain cells to think of ideas for Bangkok instead of acting like children?.

I have forgotten the amount of stories on TV about farang being classed as second citizens yet once we are asked for our opinion many carry on like the uneducated fools that have caused this mess.

Stop acting like spoilt brats and lets have some ideas.

p.s. not everybody just a select few.

[djayz]

I find this rather confusing... just a few weeks/months ago we were told to "stay out" of Thai politics, protests, marches, etc. and to keep our opinons to ourselves. Now they're singing a completely different tune: they want us to actively participate in rebuilding the city, our ideas and suggestions. So what are we here? "Just guests" with no say - or are we accepted residents? Strange really - they go from "we don't want you to get involed" to "please help us and be apart of BKK, tell us what will the tourists and investors like".

[Ulysses G.]

Not so strange - stay out of politics!

[profijet]

Investor's confidence:

This needs more attention at this time. One of my friend who worked with the EU investor in the past few months had almost closed the deal. Now, after the deadly protest or incident couple of weeks ago the EU investor's are bit worried about the risk investing in Thailand.

1. How can we invest when army control's the country?

2. We can't invest during this uncertainty and high risk.

3. No concrete action plan from government to solve the political problem.

Now, the project has been postponed with no clear deadline. All they mentioned was 'the Thai government must come out with clear plans'.

Still the uncertainty prevails with the foreign investors. Who can help them out? Whether BOI offices in the respective countries meet the investor to boost the confidence? or else the PM should give the confidence to the investors.

Am I missing something here?....

Thanks,

[anotheruser]

They actually have an opportunity to rebuild something that is actually better than what used to be at the site. They could do something incredible if the will is there. Will they do that? No, probably not. It will mostly likely be like Phuket after the tsunami when they squandered a chance to start over and still got it wrong.

It is a very prime piece of land in the center sitting there. The possibilities are only limited by the imagination of the Thai government. Maybe that is the reason Thais have even come to admit that sometimes foreigners could provide some very constructive input.

Look at some of the various developments around the world that foreigners (foreigners of all nations not only farangs) have designed. Of course ideas are just not enough, it will come down to a matter of money. The worlds foremost architect could come in to advise the Thais but the price tag and time line to finish it would probably just be too high.

They should build the largest entertainment zone in Thailand there. A place that could conceivably rival Nana, Soi Cowboy and Patpong all put together. If they can't do that then just throw a Tesco on the spot and call it good enough.

To be serious though if the old mall was successful just do the same thing again but do it better.

[stepenwolf1958]

Many of us believe that Central World should not be rebuilt. Instead a People's Park should be built with a large memorial to the citizens slaughtered by the military in the 1976, 1992 and 2010 pro-democracy demonstrations.

This is not America. Build it bigger and better and fast. The tourist industry needs shopping center like Central world.

I would agree with this. The location is the heart of the tourist part of the city.

An appropriate memorial can be incorporated into the rebuild.

An appropriate memorial?

The only memorial required is to rebuild the damage and keep the red thugs out Bangkok.

The 'many of us' are the red supporters who supported the occupation and destruction.

Certainly not 'pro-Democracy' in 2010.

Just pro-Thaksin.

Chalk and cheese.

Nicelly done mate. You said "...keep the red thugs out Bangkok..." I agree, an excellent idea to leace the Bangkok to yellow thugs only. That is your idea, right?

What occupation? Protesting was an occupation???

Was no any violence until the army didn't start to killing people. In THAT moments, there was no any violence or crime that reds made. After killing started, yes, there started violence but as RESPONSE to cutting supplies, creating Warsaw gheto in BKK, fullfilled with reds.

Remember?

That is chronology, if you want to be honest and to don't look at your yellow idol like a blind man do.

Sorry, no hard feelings but you are blind folded, as you don't remember how all happened and WHO started violence FIRST.

[KireB]

Many of us believe that Central World should not be rebuilt. Instead a People's Park should be built with a large memorial to the citizens slaughtered by the military in the 1976, 1992 and 2010 pro-democracy demonstrations.

Lets be careful when we draw parallels to the 1976 and 1992 massacres till we know all the facts. Just out of respect to the casualties.