Expats Views Sought On Bangkok's Restoration

[NCFC]

I would like to see more community facilities built, such as local parks. Not in the centre of Bangkok but around all of the districts and suburbs where nothing communal exists at all. I would like to see community swimming pools, and community jogging/roller-blading tracks. Places where kids can play off the streets and where old people can gather for a chat. Facilities that we take for granted in the west but simply do not exist outside the private sector here.

I would like to see the river front developed into a boulevard for stollers with cafes, small shops, places for artists and musicians to hang out and create a good vibe.

I would like energy devoted to re-paving all the pathways and sidewalks in the city so that walking was not a hazardous experience. And I would like to see every public and private building have disabled access.

On a bigger scale I would like to see development of a full-scale mass transit system within the city and schemes to remove traffic from the city centre.

I would like to see illegal vendors removed from the walkways but an increase in legal markets equipped with running water, public toilets, and electricity.

So many things can be done to improve the living experience without taking away the Thai experience. It takes money, of course, but that's why I pay my taxes.

[tingtongfarang]

Its name was the hopewell project and it remains as a monument to government corruption ..the only mistake the hongkong construction company made ( hopewell construction ) was to refuse to get involved in corruption ...a very sad story,

Locals often refure to this mass of concrete pillars as stone henge of bangkok!

Local are familiar with Stonehenge?!

When i first arrived here at donmuang i asked the driver of the company i worked for what this was..his answer with a giggle...stone henge bangkok, in the next week i asked maybe 5-6 different people for an answer...most either said ( oh..stone henge bangkok or oh..just a project not finnished,

Two years later i was fortunate to spend time with the owner of hopewell construction and he went into great detail telling me the complete story from begining to demise and eventual colapse of the project, He also vowed never to take on another project in thailand,

Apart from this one project hopewell construction has a 100% success history in terms of buget and completion date!

[nakachalet]

chaimai ใช่ไหม?

at the very least, he appears to be the first big shot to have asked for farangs' input into something significant for the redevelopment of the capital city....

chaimai.... as a farang in thailand.... won't you give him the opportunity at least to try out his brilliant ideas.... pls?

i am sure there are many farangs who would contribute ideas and more....

if only they can be sure.... that their efforts and time.... are not wasted on some bureaucratic exercises....

and there will be also those who do not believe that anything can be accomplished in this vane....

let everyone who genuinely wants to.... whether you are pro or con to the initiative.... show up....

and express your concerns to your heart content concerning whatever is in your mind....

at the very least, it is a giant step toward the right direction.... bravo....

Didn't you read the OP? It is our business. We've been asked for our opinion.

Yes, I read the headline.

Do you really think that the opinion of Farangs will count for one iota ?

[overhaul38]

Many of us believe that Central World should not be rebuilt. Instead a People's Park should be built with a large memorial to the citizens slaughtered by the military in the 1976, 1992 and 2010 pro-democracy demonstrations.

I am too stunned to respond. The Thai Gov. and people have always make it very clear that farangs/expats should be seen and not heard. Spend your money, keep your mouth shut and go home. Works for me.

[JetsetBkk]

There was hardly a squeak from anyone on this forum at that time.

I wouldn't know. I wasn't a member at that time. Nor were you funnily enough.

It wouldn't surprise me however if what you say were true. Thaksin has always been good at PR, and at the time of his so called war on drugs, he sold it well. When being told that short-cuts were being taken in order to take menaces off the streets, who couldn't or wouldn't applaud that notion?

General public didn't know though exactly what it would lead to: innocents murdered, police settling scores. But Thaksin did - or should have done. It was his job and his decision. Him and his followers can't blame the public for his bad decisions just because they, the public, went along with it, no more than Thaksin would pass over credit for the good things he did in office because of what the public thought at the time.

I researched the subject a year ago and posted about it then.

Here's the link. As the thread is closed, I can't easily copy all of the quotes in my post. But here is the gist of it (my bolding):

[QUOTing name=justanothercybertosser' date='2009-05-29 13:34:25]

Anyhow. Marshbags tries to present the drug war as some sort of elitist conspiracy against the poor, which is a ridiculous misinterpretation. The drug war was popular under all sectors of society<snip>[/quoting]

It has become rather rare here to see a voice, such as Cybertosser, combining both understanding of the Thai reality and reasoning. In my wife's native neighborhood (tambon) the war on drugs was, and is still today, celebrated as a good thing. Yes, a few people lost a distant relative (nephew) including my wife, but all were still overjoyed at the results that included the disappearance of the meth dealers out of the local schools and the almost immediate drop in local crimes such as theft, burglary, and domestic violence that had become truly epidemic. All of those social ills still exist of course, but back at the lower levels that existed before the drug epidemic had become commonplace.

Agreed - excellent post justanother... and that is how I remember it. Also, that is why I went looking for any posts on this web site that were posted at the time of the 'war' (Jan - Apr '03) that were critical of it, and couldn't find any.

The first, I believe, was from sriracha john, about a year and a half after the 'war'. But I guess there wasn't much debate going on at all on the forum in those days - early 2003 - so maybe that was the reason

[dinooz]

My idea on reconstruction,all buisnesses from Central World relocate to Praturnam Center,finish off this ghost building and turn it into something spectacular,knock down Central world and turn it into a huge, world class water world,with artificial beaches and resturaunts,water slides somewhere for BKK peeps to chill out, an oasis in a concrete jungle,connect airport link Makkasan to skytrain along Rachaparop rd,demolish the crap next door to Big C and build a hypermarket and and and...........

[JetsetBkk]

[quoting name=kaengk' post='3649342' date='2010-05-28 18:27:05]Many of us believe that Central World should not be rebuilt. Instead a People's Park should be built with a large memorial to the citizens slaughtered by the military in the 1976, 1992 and 2010 pro-democracy demonstrations.[/quoting]

You and your friends believe the red terrorists who burnt down Central World. Fire comes out of your mouth.

That is correct.

Those who supported the burnings have no say in the rebuilding.

They would like to support more burnings.

The red cheerleaders, only support destruction.

No say? Oh, boo-hoo.

Support more burnings? Hmm, only your PC.

Only support destruction? Dear, oh dear. Your generalisations, stereotyping and bias make your posts quite humorous.

You still read his posts? It's very predictable anti-democratic hate-speech. Skipping is really much better.

I know, but it's fun trying to determine his age. I reckon 14. What about you?

[borisloosebrain]

When I go into BKK I come from the north and it seems to me that it would be a good idea to complete the partly built sky train to Don Muang and use the vacent parts of the old airport as a cheap parking area.

This would keep a lot of traffic out of the city easing congestion and would also provide a direct connection between the buses from the north and speedy way to travel into the city centre.

A similar thing could be considered from the east with the out of town busses connecting with the new airport sky train and a parking area built close to the station.

That's a good idea !!

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

Bkk is still a few decades away from rooftop gardens / solar/wind power generation - which some more forward-looking cities like Chicago are implementing.

<snip>

Now you've got me worried.

Comparing Bangkok to Chicago!

And talking about "wind power"??? in Bangkok!!!

Have you ever been there?

(P.S. You do know that Chicago is called 'The Windy city', don't you. )

[nakachalet]

overhaul38....

just where and whence did you get that splendid idea....?

who the heck have you been talking to....?

who on earth have you been interacting and associating with....?

to come up with the idea that farangs should not be seen nor heard from....?

perhaps, been in the wood too long already.... LOL

farangs who are irresponsible personally and socially are.... definitely not wanted.... nor appreciated any where on earth....

seen plenty of those staggering around in board day light too....

but most farangs are decent and responsible....

and appreciative always....

Many of us believe that Central World should not be rebuilt. Instead a People's Park should be built with a large memorial to the citizens slaughtered by the military in the 1976, 1992 and 2010 pro-democracy demonstrations.

I am too stunned to respond. The Thai Gov. and people have always make it very clear that farangs/expats should be seen and not heard. Spend your money, keep your mouth shut and go home. Works for me.

Edited May 29, 2010 by nakachalet

[mogoso]

Your right, strange that the left-wings support a billionare. I don´t get it.

George Soros receives much acclaim and finances all that is ruining the US with his support of the left, and their support of him. Many rich leftists in the US, why not Thailand?

But as for Thailand, cheese it up at the airports with traditional live music and arts, sorta like Hawaii used to do with hula girls placing leis around the necks of arriving tourists.

Eliminate the reporting every 90 days aspect of visas if you've not moved during that time period. Maybe have 15 days to report after you've moved. Save a lot of paperwork on their end, and a hassles on the ex-pat

Start village beautification projects that Thais and expats can work on together, picking up litter, power washing buildings and streets, neighborhood painting projects, examining sources of pollution and ways to stop it locally that are economically feasible

You don't have to be a global warming disciple to wanna eliminate pollution and trash

Thailand needs to get the expats involved in much that isn't political, we should stay outta their way in so far as gov't in all ways except for our visa issues. It is their country, and residency is granted by them

That being said businesses should be allowed to be owned by a resident 100%. No Thai board of directors unless wanted by owners

[Scully]

"Chaimai" how could I possibly offer an idea when you know it all?

Anyway as for ideas there has been many on here and I personally feel Bangkok is too far from a border and needs some sort of artificial border crossing for the many expats who have to jump through hoops to stay here. The airport needs a regular bus service/sky train to Bangkok and also a dedicated government run non profit tourist information would be a start for those jumping off a plane.

Walking around Bangkok a tourist needs to know where the information is but at present there is very little for them and on many occasions I have seen them panic sticken by such a challenge. Clear sign posts in both Thai and English stating kilometers to destination would help us all. Thai/English bus stops and buses with clear timetables so we use public transport again putting money into Thailand.

There are endless amounts of things to make Bangkok tourist/expat friendly but unhelpful, self righteous people like Chaimai is not one of them.

[brahmburgers]

Its name was the hopewell project and it remains as a monument to government corruption ..the only mistake the hongkong construction company made ( hopewell construction ) was to refuse to get involved in corruption ...a very sad story,

Locals often refure to this mass of concrete pillars as stone henge of bangkok!

Local are familiar with Stonehenge?!

.....i was fortunate to spend time with the owner of Hopewell construction and he went into great detail telling me the complete story from beginning to demise and eventual collapse of the project, He also vowed never to take on another project in Thailand,

Interesting. There should be a brochure written about what you mentioned. If nothing else, it could serve as a warning - for other foreign corporations - of what may lie ahead when considering bidding for a big job in Thailand.

As for the project itself: perhaps it's too late to revive it, but if not, the re-bar sticking up in the air should be spray painted (to lengthen its viability) - otherwise the exposed iron will continue to deteriorate, and any hope of reviving the project will be less plausible. Has there been debate over what other uses those pillions could be used for?

[gregb]

I think Bangkok should have less parking, not more. Especially in downtown areas that are well covered by the BTS and MRT. If parking is to be built, it should be as far away as possible, near those MRT or BTS stations. Parking attracts cars, and Bangkok roads really cannot handle any more of those.

Public transport and covered walkways are the way to go. Take Hong Kong as an example.

Actually, this is one of the most sensible suggestions I have seen on this thread. If you truly want to know what annoys most of us in Bangkok on a day to day basis, traffic would have to be at the top of the list.

I would happily take the skytrain or other means of public transport if there was simply some place to park at terminals. I'm not sure that the government realises exactly how critical this is. I would guess at least 30% of the traffic in the inner city could be removed by providing and promoting appropriate FREE parking along the major corridors entering the city.

I know this is expensive land, but if you want to solve the traffic issues, the BMA will need to pony up for it. I know most of my trips to the CBD could be done without my car if there was simply a convenient place to park it near the skytrain and subway.

I wasn't aware that we were supposed to be making intelligent suggestions on this thread though. I'm not sure you're getting into the spirit of this WTK. Keep it up and you're going to destroy the reputation we have all worked so hard to drive into the gutter.

[IsaanAndy]

I think everything that was destroyed should be rebuilt and that a memorial to people who lost lives should also be apart of the reconstruction.

[Chaimai]

There are endless amounts of things to make Bangkok tourist/expat friendly but unhelpful, self righteous people like Chaimai is not one of them.

Not self-righteous at all - I was just waiting for you to provide an idea. In an earlier post you called for ideas from TV members - and criticised them - without putting something forward yourself.

You now have done (in a limted way) and I agree that better sign-posting would help tourists.

In terms of restoration I think of rebuilding and, for Central World, I go with the bigger and better school of thought. I am not in favour of a park - this is a main tourist area and should have appropriate attractions. The bulk of CW's customers were local and visiting Thais.

(I am now off to apologise to nakachalet for a somewhat cynical response to the Governers initial request)

[Chaimai]

chaimai ใช่ไหม?

at the very least, he appears to be the first big shot to have asked for farangs' input into something significant for the redevelopment of the capital city....

chaimai.... as a farang in thailand.... won't you give him the opportunity at least to try out his brilliant ideas.... pls?

i am sure there are many farangs who would contribute ideas and more....

if only they can be sure.... that their efforts and time.... are not wasted on some bureaucratic exercises....

and there will be also those who do not believe that anything can be accomplished in this vane....

let everyone who genuinely wants to.... whether you are pro or con to the initiative.... show up....

and express your concerns to your heart content concerning whatever is in your mind....

at the very least, it is a giant step toward the right direction.... bravo....

Didn't you read the OP? It is our business. We've been asked for our opinion.

Yes, I read the headline.

Do you really think that the opinion of Farangs will count for one iota ?

I apologise.

I was overly cynical in my reaction to the Governor's initiative and got caught up in the "when have they ever listened to the Falang" school of thought.

On reflection this reaction was hasty and unfair. Whilst I shall never be totally convinced, I should at least applaud the initiative and give it every chance to succeed.

Sorry

[tingtongfarang]

Its name was the hopewell project and it remains as a monument to government corruption ..the only mistake the hongkong construction company made ( hopewell construction ) was to refuse to get involved in corruption ...a very sad story,

Locals often refure to this mass of concrete pillars as stone henge of bangkok!

Local are familiar with Stonehenge?!

.....i was fortunate to spend time with the owner of Hopewell construction and he went into great detail telling me the complete story from beginning to demise and eventual collapse of the project, He also vowed never to take on another project in Thailand,

Interesting. There should be a brochure written about what you mentioned. If nothing else, it could serve as a warning - for other foreign corporations - of what may lie ahead when considering bidding for a big job in Thailand.

As for the project itself: perhaps it's too late to revive it, but if not, the re-bar sticking up in the air should be spray painted (to lengthen its viability) - otherwise the exposed iron will continue to deteriorate, and any hope of reviving the project will be less plausible. Has there been debate over what other uses those pillions could be used for?

Of course all this happened in 1997 together with the asian financial crisis although thailand was also blamed by neighboring countrys for instigating this crisis,

There were many plans over the years to revive the hopewell project, I believe also hopewell construction was also asked but the fear of getting burnt again was too great,

I imagine so many roads and over passes have been built in the last 10 years along the project route it would no longer be viable,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangkok_Eleva...nd_Train_System

[tingtongfarang]

Its name was the hopewell project and it remains as a monument to government corruption ..the only mistake the hongkong construction company made ( hopewell construction ) was to refuse to get involved in corruption ...a very sad story,

Locals often refure to this mass of concrete pillars as stone henge of bangkok!

Local are familiar with Stonehenge?!

.....i was fortunate to spend time with the owner of Hopewell construction and he went into great detail telling me the complete story from beginning to demise and eventual collapse of the project, He also vowed never to take on another project in Thailand,

Interesting. There should be a brochure written about what you mentioned. If nothing else, it could serve as a warning - for other foreign corporations - of what may lie ahead when considering bidding for a big job in Thailand.

As for the project itself: perhaps it's too late to revive it, but if not, the re-bar sticking up in the air should be spray painted (to lengthen its viability) - otherwise the exposed iron will continue to deteriorate, and any hope of reviving the project will be less plausible. Has there been debate over what other uses those pillions could be used for?

As had been explained to me the project was plagued by corruption from the outset ...same same with any plans to revive it the money just dissappeared into every pocket,

If the existing pillars were to be used then hopewell would claim the bond to be returned,

From the beginning pressure was put on hopewell (gordon Wu) to hand over graft money to secure land to be released as the project progressed but was always met with refusal,(almost all land was owned by SRT) After moving the construction site many times the government accused hopewell of not making enough progress for the amount spent and at that point hopewell threw the towel in and cut its losses,

I understand this was the only time in hopewells successful history that a project failed,

Edited May 30, 2010 by tingtongfarang

[Huey]

Many of us believe that Central World should not be rebuilt. Instead a People's Park should be built with a large memorial to the citizens slaughtered by the military in the 1976, 1992 and 2010 pro-democracy demonstrations.

And many of us believe that instead they should rebuild Central World larger, and more grand, than it was before.Thus sending a message to the terrorists and the world, that We will not let a handful of thugs and paid mercenaries hold back progress and democracy in Thailand.

And construction a memorial in Bangkok to the people who fought against the Royal Thai Soldiers on behalf of Taksin, would be like erecting a memorial in New York for the "brave mujahadin"who hijacked the air planes on 9/11.

If anything they should have a simple plaque honouring the fallen soldiers of the nation's armed forces who gave their lives in the fight against terror.

[Huey]

As for how the govt. could make Thailand more Foreigner friendly, the answer is simple but the execution of it would be difficult.

They need to make their business and immigration laws more like Dubai. If it was as easy to do business here as it was in Dubai for a foreigner you would find a ton of investors flock to the country irregardless of the political situation