Why Is Everything Closing Down?

[cmdream]

Supply and demand, its that simple. The Thais and bar owners don't seem to understand that basic economic principle !

[Tejas]

Supply and demand, its that simple. The Thais and bar owners don't seem to understand that basic economic principle !

Right.........but unlike the OP, there will be more chatter here about Irish bars.........the OP was talking about Irish bars, but the OP was also talking about businesses in general.

The social engineering project has officially failed.

[hellyes2oo2]

I think people seem to be going off topic here a little. The OP asked why are so many bars closing down.For me the answer is obvious, a lot of ex-pats come to Pattaya, see a bar and think I can do that it's easy,WRONG.They think buy a bar put in a few good looking girls and watch the cash roll in.I reckon that about 90+% of ex-pat bar owners have never run a bar in their lives before they came here.I ran bars in england for almost 30 years, and believe me it is a 24 hour a day job, in fact it is not a job it's a way of life, and you can either love it or hate it, there is no in between in this game.You have to be there as many hours as is physically possible to make sure that you have contact with your customers, and listen to what they want, and then do your best to provide it for them. And then you have to make sure your staff are well trained in what they are doing, the old saying"it's easy to lose customers, but as hard as hel_l to get them back" comes to mind.Customer service is as important as serving good food and good beer.And finally it is up to you as the boss to create the atmosphere in your bar.When you get all these things right, then you are on your way to having a successful bar, and believe me even though you may experience a dip in trade during tough times, you will have the capacity to survive, whereas the other bars where the owner doesn't want to put in the hours, or be bothered getting someone with experience to run it for them will fall by the wayside.

[Tejas]

I think people seem to be going off topic here a little. The OP asked why are so many bars closing down.For me the answer is obvious, a lot of ex-pats come to Pattaya, see a bar and think I can do that it's easy,WRONG.They think buy a bar put in a few good looking girls and watch the cash roll in.I reckon that about 90+% of ex-pat bar owners have never run a bar in their lives before they came here.I ran bars in england for almost 30 years, and believe me it is a 24 hour a day job, in fact it is not a job it's a way of life, and you can either love it or hate it, there is no in between in this game.You have to be there as many hours as is physically possible to make sure that you have contact with your customers, and listen to what they want, and then do your best to provide it for them. And then you have to make sure your staff are well trained in what they are doing, the old saying"it's easy to lose customers, but as hard as hel_l to get them back" comes to mind.Customer service is as important as serving good food and good beer.And finally it is up to you as the boss to create the atmosphere in your bar.When you get all these things right, then you are on your way to having a successful bar, and believe me even though you may experience a dip in trade during tough times, you will have the capacity to survive, whereas the other bars where the owner doesn't want to put in the hours, or be bothered getting someone with experience to run it for them will fall by the wayside.

With due respect, the fine print posted by the OP enlarges the thread. He wants to know why businesses are closing. He gives a few examples, one being Irish bars...but his obvious intent is to get answers as to why businesses, in general, are closing.

It would be nice if the OP would step in and clarify this.

From the OP:

I just read a link from this forum,I think it was a weblink to a site called "pattaya at night " or similar.

Quite interesting,however the amount of Irish bars that seem to be closing has me shocked as well as TIPS Restaurant etc.

Is it a combination of high rents/no customers or mismanagement?

One business mentioned,a irish bar called BOSCos was paying 70k a month so maybe its the rents.

Then again i read of a group called the peppermint group buying similar type businesses ,so they dont seem to concerned of the ecomomic downturn.

I think Pattaya actually has too many of these irish themed bars,im actually surprised that big one in jomtiem is making a profit OR still trading actually.

[tlcwaterfall]

I am talking about the general situation. It does not look good to me. Too many owners who should be dropping prices have refused to do so.

Some expats are convinced that the answer to everything is cheap prices. There is a very good chance that these owners can't drop prices and still pay rent and also make a living.

Correct. Owners may or may not be able to drop their prices but if they can't and the downturn continues they will have to close their doors. Or keep putting their own money into the business to keep it open.

Remember the old saying "Only put money into Thailand that you can afford to lose"

No one wants business owners to lose money as without them having the guts to open the business we as punters would not be able to enjoy their offerings.

Difficult times indeed and it will interesting to see who rides out the current downturn in Pattaya and who does not.

[kopite]

what an amazing thread, clearly none of you have owned or run an establishment in either your home countries or here in thailand.

shenanigans in jomtien struggling???

ive heard it all now

[BugJackBaron]

 My 50 satang. In many  cases it is simply poor value for the money that is

causing customers to abandon ship.

This is why Soi Bookhow, with its cheaper prices and sometimes better food, is relatively OK.

Just Burger in Jomtie is doing OK with its low overhead and more importantly - good food!

Cut prices? Some have done it - The Huntsman  in Bangkok offers half price hour now on food.

Yes, and it has a farang manager in one of the highest rental places(landmark hotel) there is.

 In Pattaya no one seems to want to even try that.

Edited June 4, 2010 by BugJackBaron

[hellyes2oo2]

Hey Kopite, if you read my post I tell you that I have run bars for almost 30 years back in england.I did not mention in my post that "Shennanigans" in Jomtien was losing money.I have only ever been in the place twice, and what I will tell you is that on both occasions,once at peak lunchtime on a thursday, and once on a Saturday evening around 8pm, both times the place was very quiet( not even a dozen customers), and totally lacking in atmosphere of any kind, so I would have to reserve judgement on if the place is making money.But maybe you know better(maybe you are the manager, if you are please come clean and say so).I hear from friends that the General Manager of Shennanigans is from Australia, as is the Manager of the Jomtien branch, so maybe this is a case of jobs for the boys, and not the best man for the job.I will stand by my statement that the reason so many bars(and maybe other business's ) fail is because the owners come to Pattaya thinking everything is easy, don't put in the hours or the effort needed to make it work, and ultimately fail.

[Rimmer]

Off topic post deleted along with two replies. For those that have forgotten the topic is:

Why Is Everything Closing Down?, Irish bars,established buinesses etc?

[kopite]

Hey Kopite, if you read my post I tell you that I have run bars for almost 30 years back in england.I did not mention in my post that "Shennanigans" in Jomtien was losing money.I have only ever been in the place twice, and what I will tell you is that on both occasions,once at peak lunchtime on a thursday, and once on a Saturday evening around 8pm, both times the place was very quiet( not even a dozen customers), and totally lacking in atmosphere of any kind, so I would have to reserve judgement on if the place is making money.But maybe you know better(maybe you are the manager, if you are please come clean and say so).I hear from friends that the General Manager of Shennanigans is from Australia, as is the Manager of the Jomtien branch, so maybe this is a case of jobs for the boys, and not the best man for the job.I will stand by my statement that the reason so many bars(and maybe other business's ) fail is because the owners come to Pattaya thinking everything is easy, don't put in the hours or the effort needed to make it work, and ultimately fail.

i agree with the highlighted 100%. lots of places in pattaya are run by the owner for a few months, then once the establishment has a good reputation, they just seem to vanish.

like any pub/restaurant, you have some busy nights and some quiet night. shenanigans in jomtien, can be quiet like youve said, but 7 out of 10 nights, its busy.

and no im not the manager, and yes i have met him, but only because he greets all of his customers. very nice lad as well.

[Soi Sauce]

With so many bars to choose from, those that do not offer good service will go to the wall. I have walked out of pattaya bars too often thinking that I'd never go back.

Someone mentioned the Soi Bookow area which actually seems to be doing very well. Why? Reasonable prices, owners/managers who are pleased to have customers and also have the ability to remember your name and usual drink.

In other parts of Patts, very often you might as well be home alone.

[gotlost]

A: Over rated.

B: Over priced

C: No tourist

D: No money

E: All the above.

[PhilHarries]

As has been said many times it's simple maths.

You have 100 tourists visit a town where there's only one hotel, one restaurant and one bar.

All three businesses are thriving and making a fortune.

You have the same 100 tourists go to the next town where there are 100 hotels, 100 restaurants and 100 bars.

Nobody is thriving, nobody is making money.

Simples.

[FarangBuddha]

A reasonable theory but the reality is that almost all of the "Irish" bars are both owned and patronised by Brits and Aussies. They are what they are, and I don't want to knock them but it takes more than a few generic bits of Irish decoration to make an Irish pub. When I go home to potato land and walk into the local, having been away for more than a year, I know that the barman will say "Ach it's yourself. How's things out in Bangkok?" and have a pint on the way before I've sat down. It's the people that make a pub, not the wallpaper.

This post describes what seems to be missing in the Irish Bars around Pattaya. Maybe it is a lack of staff with English ability or management not knowing how to build a strong stream of ex-pats living in the area. Having smart chatty staff, who have been trained in how to talk and listen can do wonders to the bottom line.

TheWalkingMan

That's pretty funny...I can just see the help-wanted ads now...local farang drunks wanted to dress badly (socks with sandals part of uniform), sit on a bar stool, and make small talk with visiting farang drunks; salary...what you can drink. The only problem is I don't think the Thais would provide WPs for such positions...though there would undoubtedly be many takers here in Patts. Maybe recruit local Thai drunks as the visiting drunks would likely not notice any difference due to the state they are in

[pepsi666]

I dont suppose the TB to the UK£ has a lot to do with it

Anyone who geta UK pension has seen it halve over the past few years, I daresay they cant spend as much as they used to

I reckon that works for tourists as well, they need to take twice as much as they used to

Hotel prices arent any cheaper (or any better)

There are better value places in other parts of Asia (when I say better value, I mean a better exchange rate)

Not sure of beer prices, but assume it is 100 TB for a bottle, that equates to 2 quid, compared to a short time ago when it was 80Tb to the UK£, just over a quid for a beer

Hence people arent coming over (apart from Russians and Indians) I dont know what the Thais would prefer, but where ever I go, lately, its loudmouth, drunk Russians, they have no idea of manners, queing or simple politeness

If I was to visit TLOS now, it would cost me a lot more, hotel, flight and spending money (I estimated I usually spend a grand when I come over, meals, beer, entertainment (non of the female kind, I bring my wife)

Now I would have to bring 2 grand, I can get better value <better exchange rate> (and probably the same weather) in Egypt, Malasia,The US,Dominican Republiic (I only mention them, because these are the places I have been rather than TLOS over the past 2-3 years)

At the end of the day, no matter where you are, you need people to buy whatever you are selling, (food, beer, hotel room, ice cream,) if the people arent there, you cant sell it to them, so you pay the rent for a while rfrom your own pocket in the hope that things will pick up, then when they dont, you either shut up shop and move on or keep putting your money into the business (and hope that your money lasts)

Thats my tuppence worth

[Tejas]

As has been said many times it's simple maths.

You have 100 tourists visit a town where there's only one hotel, one restaurant and one bar.

All three businesses are thriving and making a fortune.

You have the same 100 tourists go to the next town where there are 100 hotels, 100 restaurants and 100 bars.

Nobody is thriving, nobody is making money.

Simples.

Makes perfect sense to me.

There is an oversupply of virtually everything in relationship to customers...........that goes for malls, restaurants, food stands, bars, condos/hotels.

Developers grossly miscalculated the value of their investments.

Now, some investments are dying........others are never getting off the ground.

And now a word from the Love Pattaya or Leave it Dreamers

[Heng]

As has been said many times it's simple maths.

You have 100 tourists visit a town where there's only one hotel, one restaurant and one bar.

All three businesses are thriving and making a fortune.

You have the same 100 tourists go to the next town where there are 100 hotels, 100 restaurants and 100 bars.

Nobody is thriving, nobody is making money.

Those who rent out to the seemingly endless supply of folks who vacation here and then get stuck here (often with spouse and child) and of course to the legions of locals who don't have a prayer of owning property in this life seem to be making money.

It's also simple math that they aren't making any more land and renters are multiplying a LOT faster than land/property owners. They have to park their rears and take shelter from the rain somewhere.

Edited June 7, 2010 by Heng