Ex-Thai PM Thaksin Hires War Crimes Lawyer

[JohanV]

What I don't understand is why the current government does not do the same thing.

They should hire not one, but a whole team of international war crime lawyers - and one or two good PR firms, too,

too dig up and publicly expose all the dirt Thaksin hid under the carpet when he was in charge.

Like the 2500 killings during the war on drugs, Tak Bai etc.

I'm stunned by the lame inability of this government to act pre-emptively in a case like this.

It would not be too hard to figure out that this might come up, would it ?

They seem totally stuck in the 'small world view' where they seem to think this is an internal Thai issue, which it - of course - is not.

Edited May 31, 2010 by JohanV

[jonclark]

Hi Level Head,

You state that "It has been reported that some death certificates have been filled in incorrectly"

Where has this been reported?

Do you have a link to the original story?

Also stating that cutting off peoples internet access is an infringement of basic human rights, may be a bit of a stretch.

The red shirts were gathered illegally, and the response that they got was a long time coming.

In any other country on earth they would have been moved on with force after hours, not weeks.

Case in point, Akkaradej Khankaew from Kalasin.

//URL removed by Admin

On your other point the illegal gathering should have been dealt with by police, with tear gas and batons if necessary, as was the case under the PPP government. It should not have been dealt with by the Army, and the use of the army, and using of live ammo by the army is something that is going to be investigated by top human rights and war crimes lawyers, as it should be.

The world is going to ask why the police were not used, why no attempt was made to use them and why the government so quickly brought in the army with the ability to use lethal force against civilians.

If it transpires the government is not in control of its police force due to questions over its legitimacy or whatever, then a government not in control should have made way for elections for a new government that is.

The police were not used simply because the police are crap and are unable to organise a piss up in a brewery. Remember what happen when the PM sent them to arrest Arisman and co at the hotel, absolutly f**king hilarious. If the police had been sent in to remove the protesters from Ratchaprasong at the mere sight of a few thousand reds the police would have shit themselves, given the reds their guns, body armour, batons, shields etc and run away, leaving the reds more empowered and better armed.

In an ideal world the police would have been used, but the Thai police as all Thais, and the outside world knows are utter <deleted> and a disgrace to the uniform they wear and the ideals the took an oath to uphold.

So when negotiations fail and the police prove ineffective - what options would you suggest??

[yoshiwara]

Hi Level Head,

You state that "It has been reported that some death certificates have been filled in incorrectly"

Where has this been reported?

Do you have a link to the original story?

Also stating that cutting off peoples internet access is an infringement of basic human rights, may be a bit of a stretch.

The red shirts were gathered illegally, and the response that they got was a long time coming.

In any other country on earth they would have been moved on with force after hours, not weeks.

Case in point, Akkaradej Khankaew from Kalasin.

//URL removed by Admin

On your other point the illegal gathering should have been dealt with by police, with tear gas and batons if necessary, as was the case under the PPP government. It should not have been dealt with by the Army, and the use of the army, and using of live ammo by the army is something that is going to be investigated by top human rights and war crimes lawyers, as it should be.

The world is going to ask why the police were not used, why no attempt was made to use them and why the government so quickly brought in the army with the ability to use lethal force against civilians.

If it transpires the government is not in control of its police force due to questions over its legitimacy or whatever, then a government not in control should have made way for elections for a new government that is.

The red apologists emerge from their bunkers and brush off their new arguments.

Same as the old ones mainly.

As for the reference to the police force here we have a coy reference to 'its legistimacy or whatever'.

Some points, firstly the police force showed itself to be unreliable in carrying out its duties.

(We know that Thaksin had his claws into the police force, something he wasn't quite able to do with the army except small pockets)

Secondly, the level of violence instigated by the reds went beyond the capabilities of the police force to respond.

Thirdly, what really irks the Thaksin cheerleaders is that against the police force they think they might have prevailed,

but against the army they lost.

As soon as you read references to 'civilians' you know where the propaganda is coming from.

The whole campaign from Thaksin was about capturing the leadership of the army, (something he failed at in 2006 which has bugged him ever since)

Now that Thaksin's troops on the ground have been kicked out of Bangkok,

he spends his money on lawyers.

The red cheerleaders come for free.

[LuckyLew]

Gotta admit when I read the headline, I thought TS had hired

the war crimes lawyers to defend himself.

[AleG]

I don't know why Thaksin hired Amsterdam. The guy looks like a ferret and is a pretty lousy face man. His performance in the Al Jazeera interview was pitiful.

Give the man a break, it's not easy to polish a turd.

[frankman]

looks like this country is not able to have a democracy, baste. so make it a monarchy or a military regime. kids will be kids and need to be taken care of if they can't play alone. sad but true , for democraty you need education!!! which normal thais DO NOT have so back to the roots as it worked in the past!!!

[ratcatcher]

Gotta admit when I read the headline, I thought TS had hired

the war crimes lawyers to defend himself.

Thaksin is losing the plot if he hasn't done so already. He is squirming like a cornered rattler.

The rumors that the 'poor' fellow has prostate cancer may be real in which case he probably has also sustained brain damage.

Perhaps someone will write a script for the movie.

[rubl]

Case in point, Akkaradej Khankaew from Kalasin.

//URL removed by Admin

On your other point the illegal gathering should have been dealt with by police, with tear gas and batons if necessary, as was the case under the PPP government. It should not have been dealt with by the Army, and the use of the army, and using of live ammo by the army is something that is going to be investigated by top human rights and war crimes lawyers, as it should be.

The world is going to ask why the police were not used, why no attempt was made to use them and why the government so quickly brought in the army with the ability to use lethal force against civilians.

If it transpires the government is not in control of its police force due to questions over its legitimacy or whatever, then a government not in control should have made way for elections for a new government that is.

Although it's only two months ago, details start to esape me. Seems the same for most posters seeing conflicting descriptions .

Initially the police and only the police was involved. I don't want to speculate as to why they didn't seem to be able to get off their ass, but that's the case. Nothing to do with legitimacy, that's just plain 'nightsoil of a well-fed male oxen'. If the world is questioning, it's more likely to be 'why didn't the police do anything, why were they even seen helping those protesters?' It took more than a month before the government was fed up and called in the army as the police was totally ineffective.

No government in Thailand seems to have been in control of the police or the army, only a military government. Sad, but true.

Anyway, my 2 cents, for what it's worth, as far as I can remember

[Samuian]

The "white wash of the last 3 centuries"... is in its kick offstages -

- if this man ever, get it his way - go and run for shelter.... I wonder who will kick ... ah' well ..

promised to stay neat and polite today!

But if I read what is going on.... I just have difficulties to come to terms with reality!

[animatic]

Thaksin gets the big brass balls and coldest heart awards hands down.

But the most rational announcement of the week... not even in the ballpark.

[lannarebirth]

Good news here.

The only way to get a true independent investigation is to get some proper international human rights lawyers and investigators to look into this, and if necessary file charges against the government, and certain people who were in the CRES, with the International Criminal Court, and make the UNHRC fully aware of what has happened.

So, will this guy be investigating what happened to the last human rights lawyer that Thaksin had "disappeared"? You can accuse Thaksin of many things , but you could never accuse him of not being tragically ironic.

[sgtpeppers]

Good to see someone is doing something about making this government accountable for their crimes.

Thai people just don't need scum like him running the country.

very well said.....but sad to say many in this forum still do not believe that innocent civilians were killed by the Ahbishit army....

"Sad" sums it up.

[Rucharee]

Waste of money on Thaksin side.

But he had plenty to spend, so why not?

[lannarebirth]

Good to see someone is doing something about making this government accountable for their crimes.

Thai people just don't need scum like him running the country.

very well said.....but sad to say many in this forum still do not believe that innocent civilians were killed by the Ahbishit army....

"Sad" sums it up.

I'm prepared to believe that. it's just that I haven't seen any evidence of it yet. What I have seen is a government that has showed more tolerance than any other government on earth would have. What I have seen is a very low inclination to use deadly force. What I do see is markedly lower dead and injured than might be expected given the scale of the conflict and that there were many many armed adversaries, some of whom may have been shooting innocents.

What I also see is an opposition whose sole purpose was to get the government to use deadly force so as to prosecute them for it. I also see an opposition that is at best indifferent to the lives of its supporters and at worst has killed many of them itself.

Edited May 31, 2010 by lannarebirth

[sgtpeppers]

Its amazing and somewhat disturbing the number of excuses people are coming up with to defend Abhisit.

Abhisit could have rounded them all off and sent them to gas chambers and we would still have people defending him.

[Siripon]

Its amazing and somewhat disturbing the number of excuses people are coming up with to defend Abhisit.

Abhisit could have rounded them all off and sent them to gas chambers and we would still have people defending him.

Could the moderators please introduce mandatory IQ tests for posters such as these?

Apart from the sheer stupidity, there's also a question of diabolical taste.

[KireB]

Its amazing and somewhat disturbing the number of excuses people are coming up with to defend Abhisit.

Abhisit could have rounded them all off and sent them to gas chambers and we would still have people defending him.

Your out of line with these remarks! Clearly out of line! Pathetic!

[gl9999]

Its amazing and somewhat disturbing the number of excuses people are coming up with to defend Abhisit.

Abhisit could have rounded them all off and sent them to gas chambers and we would still have people defending him.

3000 Thai people died under Thaksin, probably more deaths then all the deaths in all the crackdowns Thailand had since 1972 put together. How does one excuse that?

I mean really. If you're going to condemn Prime Minister Abhisit for killing 80 rebels trying to overthrow the government, shouldn't you condemn Thaksin for killing 3000 first?

[scorecard]

Well, no real surprise from the megalomaniac. What never ceases to amaze me is how sordid the legal profession is. It is one of the few professions in the world that is truly without morals..... the irony.

I am sure the Dutch Proff is happy to take the money, but when a Government is held to account on war crimes for protecting it's citizens economy and infrastructure then the whole world is on a slippery slope. TiT

Thaksin needs to be careful that he doesn't stir up his own murky past.

Seems to me that Amsterdam (the man, not the city) couldn't care less about the morals and past activities of his clients.

But I wonder about Mr. Knools. Surely this man, given his past track record, would be rather about associating with someone with thskins past record.

[scorecard]

I'm prepared to believe that. it's just that I haven't seen any evidence of it yet. What I have seen is a government that has showed more tolerance than any other government on earth would have. What I have seen is a very low inclination to use deadly force. What I do see is markedly lower dead and injured than might be expected given the scale of the conflict and that there were many many armed adversaries, some of whom may have been shooting innocents.

What I also see is an opposition whose sole purpose was to get the government to use deadly force so as to prosecute them for it. I also see an opposition that is at best indifferent to the lives of its supporters and at worst has killed many of them itself.

Well said!

[sgtpeppers]

Its amazing and somewhat disturbing the number of excuses people are coming up with to defend Abhisit.

Abhisit could have rounded them all off and sent them to gas chambers and we would still have people defending him.

3000 Thai people died under Thaksin, probably more deaths then all the deaths in all the crackdowns Thailand had since 1972 put together. How does one excuse that?

I mean really. If you're going to condemn Prime Minister Abhisit for killing 80 rebels trying to overthrow the government, shouldn't you condemn Thaksin for killing 3000 first?

The 3000 deaths is deplorable, but that is another story. Really, you have to stop making up excuses for Abhisit. What he did was criminal, plain and simple.

[gl9999]

Its amazing and somewhat disturbing the number of excuses people are coming up with to defend Abhisit.

Abhisit could have rounded them all off and sent them to gas chambers and we would still have people defending him.

3000 Thai people died under Thaksin, probably more deaths then all the deaths in all the crackdowns Thailand had since 1972 put together. How does one excuse that?

I mean really. If you're going to condemn Prime Minister Abhisit for killing 80 rebels trying to overthrow the government, shouldn't you condemn Thaksin for killing 3000 first?

The 3000 deaths is deplorable, but that is another story. Really, you have to stop making up excuses for Abhisit. What he did was criminal, plain and simple.

I disagree. Prime Minister Abhisit cracked down on rebels trying to overthrow the government. Rebels who were armed. Why is it criminal?

And no, the 3000 deaths isn't another story. You can't slam one while ignoring the other.

[ChouDoufu]

80 dead. is that the final death toll? all accounted for?

i keep reading abhasit killed/murdered 80 civilians.

does anyone have a breakdown of these 80?

how many were in that first group of soldiers killed by a grenade?

how many were unarmed soldiers executed by the red mob after

dismounting their vehicle?

how many were bystanders shot by reddish snipers at random?

how many were reporters/ambulance drivers shot from the red side apparently for publicity purposes?

how many were simply collateral - they got in the way?

how many of the total were from directed fire from the troops?

of these, how many were armed, or throwing molotovs?

[rabo]

Maybe they can investigate the 3,000 extra-judicial killings that took place under Thaksin's "war on drugs", too.

If Abhisit (yes, the supposed messiah of thai politics etc),

walks away scot free for the extra-judicial killings under his leadership,

its pretty much a carte blanche for PMs past and present to get away with murder.

Precisely and exactly why Mr. Thaksin was removed, exactly why there was a coup, and exactly why Thailand must succeed in it's first attempt to clean up it's political landscape. If Thaksin is to have any legacy at all, it will be that corruption became so great, the Thais had to fix their system.

[animatic]

Maybe they can investigate the 3,000 extra-judicial killings that took place under Thaksin's "war on drugs", too.

If Abhisit (yes, the supposed messiah of thai politics etc),

walks away scot free for the extra-judicial killings under his leadership,

its pretty much a carte blanche for PMs past and present to get away with murder.

Precisely and exactly why Mr. Thaksin was removed, exactly why there was a coup, and exactly why Thailand must succeed in it's first attempt to clean up it's political landscape. If Thaksin is to have any legacy at all, it will be that corruption became so great, the Thais had to fix their system.

Agreed!

[rabo]

Its amazing and somewhat disturbing the number of excuses people are coming up with to defend Abhisit.

Abhisit could have rounded them all off and sent them to gas chambers and we would still have people defending him.

3000 Thai people died under Thaksin, probably more deaths then all the deaths in all the crackdowns Thailand had since 1972 put together. How does one excuse that?

I mean really. If you're going to condemn Prime Minister Abhisit for killing 80 rebels trying to overthrow the government, shouldn't you condemn Thaksin for killing 3000 first?

The 3000 deaths is deplorable, but that is another story. Really, you have to stop making up excuses for Abhisit. What he did was criminal, plain and simple.

"The 3000 deaths is deplorable, but that is another story."

No, that's this story.

[LevelHead]

Maybe they can investigate the 3,000 extra-judicial killings that took place under Thaksin's "war on drugs", too.

If Abhisit (yes, the supposed messiah of thai politics etc),

walks away scot free for the extra-judicial killings under his leadership,

its pretty much a carte blanche for PMs past and present to get away with murder.

Precisely and exactly why Mr. Thaksin was removed, exactly why there was a coup, and exactly why Thailand must succeed in it's first attempt to clean up it's political landscape. If Thaksin is to have any legacy at all, it will be that corruption became so great, the Thais had to fix their system.

But how can a clean up happen under a Democrat government. They are allegedly the most corrupt of them all and recent history backs this up.

There is awful levels of corruption ongoing now, and has been since 2007, Thailand is climbing back up the world corruption ladder again.

So how can one on the alleged "most corrupt" party, and one that is presently in power whilst the corruption rating is rising....... how can they clean up anything ?

The sheer vast levels of media control, suppression and propaganda can tell you that things are far from clean, and in fact are getting dirtier and dirtier........

[Publicus]

Good news here.

The only way to get a true independent investigation is to get some proper international human rights lawyers and investigators to look into this, and if necessary file charges against the government, and certain people who were in the CRES, with the International Criminal Court, and make the UNHRC fully aware of what has happened.

It is very sad to see army snipers allegedly shooting to kill civilians. It is very sad to see many people reported "missing" and the CRES is not willing to post lists of names of people held in detention. We have seen pictures of red shirts and monks blindfolded and handcuffed, and many people have not returned home. Why is the CRES unwilling to release the list of names of all detained people and where they are ?

It has been reported that some death certificates have been filled in incorrectly, with relatives insisting the cause of death is changed to bullet wound to the head as for some reason this was not recorded as the cause of death even though there is a bullet wound directly through the head. No idea why some people appear to be trying to cover up the cause of death ?? Any ideas ?

Media freedoms and basic human rights were allegedly infringed with the cutting off of media access, internet access, web site access and many other forms of basic human rights.

A full, thorough and proper investigation by international rights experts and war crimes lawyers is a good way of ensuring that if there are any breaches here, they will be found out, and it will also ensure such breaches, if they happened, will never happen again.

If anyone here cares about Thai's they will have no objections to this investigation.

The investigation and all else aside, let's cut the crap of posters saying or suggesting they alone care for the "Thai People" and that "if" anyone here "cares" about the Thai people and Thailand, we'd have to agree with you, accept what you like, believe what you say, support what you defend; advocate that which you say or propose.

It sounds something like, "I am for the Thai people. (I therefore, I have the right to ask:) Are you now or have you ever been against the Thai people?"

Grow up.

[Neurath]

Good news here.

The only way to get a true independent investigation is to get some proper international human rights lawyers and investigators to look into this, and if necessary file charges against the government, and certain people who were in the CRES, with the International Criminal Court, and make the UNHRC fully aware of what has happened.

So, will this guy be investigating what happened to the last human rights lawyer that Thaksin had "disappeared"? You can accuse Thaksin of many things , but you could never accuse him of not being tragically ironic.

Tragically ironic? I believe you're being far too kind Sir! T'is less tragic irony than Galactic Hypocrisy.

And it has always been thus - the king of double standards financing a movement crying for an end to double standards; the standard bearer of despotic paternalism fronting a movement red hand-clapping for an end to elite presumption; the authoritarian plutocrat squealing about democratic rights; the poster boy for kleptomaniacal governance squeaking about corruption. He is a compulsive and expert practitioner of all that he falsely abhors. He is, in short, a hypocrite and false witness - squared.

[gl9999]

Maybe they can investigate the 3,000 extra-judicial killings that took place under Thaksin's "war on drugs", too.

If Abhisit (yes, the supposed messiah of thai politics etc),

walks away scot free for the extra-judicial killings under his leadership,

its pretty much a carte blanche for PMs past and present to get away with murder.

Precisely and exactly why Mr. Thaksin was removed, exactly why there was a coup, and exactly why Thailand must succeed in it's first attempt to clean up it's political landscape. If Thaksin is to have any legacy at all, it will be that corruption became so great, the Thais had to fix their system.

But how can a clean up happen under a Democrat government. They are allegedly the most corrupt of them all and recent history backs this up.

There is awful levels of corruption ongoing now, and has been since 2007, Thailand is climbing back up the world corruption ladder again.

So how can one on the alleged "most corrupt" party, and one that is presently in power whilst the corruption rating is rising....... how can they clean up anything ?

The sheer vast levels of media control, suppression and propaganda can tell you that things are far from clean, and in fact are getting dirtier and dirtier........

Oh yes the Democrats are sooooo dirty. We should all run to Pheu Thai then! They're known for being the most honest politicians around!