Ex-Thai PM Thaksin Hires War Crimes Lawyer

[Crushdepth]

The 3000 deaths is deplorable, but that is another story. Really, you have to stop making up excuses for Abhisit. What he did was criminal, plain and simple.

If you mean criminal in a literal sense, you are wrong. Abhisit's actions were legal use of authority and the courts have backed that up. If you personally think it was *morally* wrong, that's just your personal value judgement.

The 3,000 extra-judicial killings under Thaksin's reign certainly were not legal use of authority. And dare I mention the campaign of bombings and intimidation against the courts, banks, public officials and anyone else that sought to enforce the law? That's criminal - literally.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Crushdepth

[scorecard]

Its amazing and somewhat disturbing the number of excuses people are coming up with to defend Abhisit.

Abhisit could have rounded them all off and sent them to gas chambers and we would still have people defending him.

3000 Thai people died under Thaksin, probably more deaths then all the deaths in all the crackdowns Thailand had since 1972 put together. How does one excuse that?

I mean really. If you're going to condemn Prime Minister Abhisit for killing 80 rebels trying to overthrow the government, shouldn't you condemn Thaksin for killing 3000 first?

And let's not forget two of the (many) war-cries of the UDD / red shirts

1. NO DOUBLE STANDARDS

2. DEMOCRACY AND EQUAL JUSTICE

So obviously the red shirts and their sympathizers will ensure that any action against Abhisit is instantly followed with demands for action against thaksin for 2,500 plus murders plus the two incidents in the south when hundreds of young Thai men were axphixiated and murdered.

Fair is fair!

[lannarebirth]

Good news here.

The only way to get a true independent investigation is to get some proper international human rights lawyers and investigators to look into this, and if necessary file charges against the government, and certain people who were in the CRES, with the International Criminal Court, and make the UNHRC fully aware of what has happened.

So, will this guy be investigating what happened to the last human rights lawyer that Thaksin had "disappeared"? You can accuse Thaksin of many things , but you could never accuse him of not being tragically ironic.

Tragically ironic? I believe you're being far too kind Sir! T'is less tragic irony than Galactic Hypocrisy.

And it has always been thus - the king of double standards financing a movement crying for an end to double standards; the standard bearer of despotic paternalism fronting a movement red hand-clapping for an end to elite presumption; the authoritarian plutocrat squealing about democratic rights; the poster boy for kleptomaniacal governance squeaking about corruption. He is a compulsive and expert practitioner of all that he falsely abhors. He is, in short, a hypocrite and false witness - squared.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Too subtle I guess.

[gemini81]

Good news here.

The only way to get a true independent investigation is to get some proper international human rights lawyers and investigators to look into this, and if necessary file charges against the government, and certain people who were in the CRES, with the International Criminal Court, and make the UNHRC fully aware of what has happened.

It is very sad to see army snipers allegedly shooting to kill civilians. It is very sad to see many people reported "missing" and the CRES is not willing to post lists of names of people held in detention. We have seen pictures of red shirts and monks blindfolded and handcuffed, and many people have not returned home. Why is the CRES unwilling to release the list of names of all detained people and where they are ?

It has been reported that some death certificates have been filled in incorrectly, with relatives insisting the cause of death is changed to bullet wound to the head as for some reason this was not recorded as the cause of death even though there is a bullet wound directly through the head. No idea why some people appear to be trying to cover up the cause of death ?? Any ideas ?

Media freedoms and basic human rights were allegedly infringed with the cutting off of media access, internet access, web site access and many other forms of basic human rights.

A full, thorough and proper investigation by international rights experts and war crimes lawyers is a good way of ensuring that if there are any breaches here, they will be found out, and it will also ensure such breaches, if they happened, will never happen again.

If anyone here cares about Thai's they will have no objections to this investigation.

Funny you mention nothing of the crimes commited by Thaksin or the red shirt people.

[rubl]

Its amazing and somewhat disturbing the number of excuses people are coming up with to defend Abhisit.

Abhisit could have rounded them all off and sent them to gas chambers and we would still have people defending him.

3000 Thai people died under Thaksin, probably more deaths then all the deaths in all the crackdowns Thailand had since 1972 put together. How does one excuse that?

I mean really. If you're going to condemn Prime Minister Abhisit for killing 80 rebels trying to overthrow the government, shouldn't you condemn Thaksin for killing 3000 first?

And let's not forget two of the (many) war-cries of the UDD / red shirts

1. NO DOUBLE STANDARDS

2. DEMOCRACY AND EQUAL JUSTICE

So obviously the red shirts and their sympathizers will ensure that any action against Abhisit is instantly followed with demands for action against thaksin for 2,500 plus murders plus the two incidents in the south when hundreds of young Thai men were axphixiated and murdered.

Fair is fair!

This being Thailand things are more complex than even a soap on TV would dare to show. Have a look at this article from November 2004

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/nov2004/thai-n26.shtml

[kissdani]

Good to see someone is doing something about making this government accountable for their crimes.

Thai people just don't need scum like him running the country.

very well said.....but sad to say many in this forum still do not believe that innocent civilians were killed by the Ahbishit army....

"Sad" sums it up.

+1

Exactly.

[Bagwan]

I really am so tired of Thaksin's cries of "Infamy,infamy. They've all got it in for me."

How many lunch baskets would it take to influence a War Crimes Court? Hopefully it would provide full employment for several catering companies.

[Neurath]

Good news here.

The only way to get a true independent investigation is to get some proper international human rights lawyers and investigators to look into this, and if necessary file charges against the government, and certain people who were in the CRES, with the International Criminal Court, and make the UNHRC fully aware of what has happened.

So, will this guy be investigating what happened to the last human rights lawyer that Thaksin had "disappeared"? You can accuse Thaksin of many things , but you could never accuse him of not being tragically ironic.

Tragically ironic? I believe you're being far too kind Sir! T'is less tragic irony than Galactic Hypocrisy.

And it has always been thus - the king of double standards financing a movement crying for an end to double standards; the standard bearer of despotic paternalism fronting a movement red hand-clapping for an end to elite presumption; the authoritarian plutocrat squealing about democratic rights; the poster boy for kleptomaniacal governance squeaking about corruption. He is a compulsive and expert practitioner of all that he falsely abhors. He is, in short, a hypocrite and false witness - squared.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Too subtle I guess.

Waaaaaaay too subtle! The times require black/white, red/yellow a couple of other FULL colors and whole lot of hyperbole! Truthyness not truth, and remember - never pick a reason before you pick a side! If in doubt, ask LevelHead - he understands all this and more!

[gemini81]

Good to see someone is doing something about making this government accountable for their crimes.

Thai people just don't need scum like him running the country.

very well said.....but sad to say many in this forum still do not believe that innocent civilians were killed by the Ahbishit army....

"Sad" sums it up.

still sad to see people who are blind as helen keller not to see the videos of all the red violence, and who were evidently far from the scene. those of us who were near the banks and shopping places when the s_it hit the fan have no problem with killing rather than the country's soldiers, especially such senseless looting and rampaging violence near our neighborhoods. too bad the gov't was so nice to let many vandals and thugs free, when it did irreparable damage to their own country.

Edited May 31, 2010 by gemini81

[elliss]

I don't know why Thaksin hired Amsterdam. The guy looks like a ferret and is a pretty lousy face man. His performance in the Al Jazeera interview was pitiful.

AMSTERDAM MAN ,,

was hired by thaskin ,,,

just in case ,, he is detained by interpol .

very unlikely , the thai goverment ,

will ask interpol , to detain thaskin.

[shrekroma]

still sad to see people who are blind as helen keller not to see the videos of all the red violence

Red violence doesnt involve with M16, Tavor, Rifle, Sniper etc.

And if you believe Reds use M79, it's fair for anti-Abhisit/elites to accuse this Gov as criminal against humanity due to the fact that this Gov ordered troops to use live ammu killing civilians.

[AleG]

And if you believe Reds use M79, it's fair for anti-Abhisit/elites to accuse this Gov as criminal against humanity due to the fact that this Gov ordered troops to use live ammu killing civilians.

This logic resembles a pretzel.

[brahmburgers]

To know anything about Thaksin is to know he fires off lawsuits as often as normal people take a pee - about seven times per day. When you've got tons of money and a rusty moral compass, then that's what you're likely to do. Lawyers love the guy. He's filthy rich, always vindictive, and always in trouble.

T tried to shut up a young journalist who wrote a non-flattering article about him while he was PM. It was a large amount (anyone recall the number?), and he thought she would wilt from fear like so many others. She didn't, and she had support from a slew of international journalists. It wasn't until HM made a public mention of 'frivolous lawsuits', that Takki withdrew it reluctantly.

Expats are at each other necks as much as Thai's on this issue-From the 2006 coup onward. Suffice to say I am not a Thaksin fan, but the government use of force and the deaths incurred needs to be thoroughly investigated. It is obvious the government cannot be relied upon to investigate itself. You cannot shoot 80 people and then just say "Bangkok is back to normal"

....and what % of those 80 are you assuming were shot by gov't security forces, and what % by Reds/Blacks? The upcoming months should be interesting - re; the evidence that will come forth about mysterious shootings and bombings by grenades.

Very sad also, that Thais will be forced to continue to suffer from the actions initiated mostly by one very rich and vindictive man. Ten points if you guess the name of the troublesome man.

Edited May 31, 2010 by brahmburgers

[shrekroma]

....and what % of those 80 are you assuming were shot by gov't security forces, and what % by Reds/Blacks?

I admire this thoughtful thinking.

From now on there will be blackman at every corner and Gov can shoot anyone.

[yoshiwara]

Good to see someone is doing something about making this government accountable for their crimes.

Thai people just don't need scum like him running the country.

very well said.....but sad to say many in this forum still do not believe that innocent civilians were killed by the Ahbishit army....

"Sad" sums it up.

+1

Exactly.

I'm afraid that too many forum red apologists were cheering on the Thaksin/red insurrection for them to suddenly become virgins in the 'who is responsible' beauty contest.

[shrekroma]

I'm afraid that too many forum red apologists were cheering on the Thaksin/red insurrection for them to suddenly become virgins in the 'who is responsible' beauty contest.

No worry. Not as many as Abhisit defender + Thaksin hater.

[yoshiwara]

I'm afraid that too many forum red apologists were cheering on the Thaksin/red insurrection for them to suddenly become virgins in the 'who is responsible' beauty contest.

No worry. Not as many as Abhisit defender + Thaksin hater.

Less worry now that the red thugs have been kicked out of Bangkok.

[patjem]

still sad to see people who are blind as helen keller not to see the videos of all the red violence

Red violence doesnt involve with M16, Tavor, Rifle, Sniper etc.

And if you believe Reds use M79, it's fair for anti-Abhisit/elites to accuse this Gov as criminal against humanity due to the fact that this Gov ordered troops to use live ammu killing civilians.

You have just proved that very point. BLIND if you cannot face the facts before you. Clearly, there was heavy weapons in circulation amongst the red camp.

[HAL9000]

I'm glad someone is standing up to what happened.

[HAL9000]

You have just proved that very point. BLIND if you cannot face the facts before you. Clearly, there was heavy weapons in circulation amongst the red camp.

And they weren't used because?

[shrekroma]

still sad to see people who are blind as helen keller not to see the videos of all the red violence

Red violence doesnt involve with M16, Tavor, Rifle, Sniper etc.

And if you believe Reds use M79, it's fair for anti-Abhisit/elites to accuse this Gov as criminal against humanity due to the fact that this Gov ordered troops to use live ammu killing civilians.

You have just proved that very point. BLIND if you cannot face the facts before you. Clearly, there was heavy weapons in circulation amongst the red camp.

Yeah right.

Perhaps the Reds are way too idiot for not launching rockets to that freaking APC when it came !!

Then just leave the weapons nicely in their camp and ran out just to be shot in the head !!!!!!

Tell me the Reds also got the nuke and I'll believe you !!

Edited May 31, 2010 by shrekroma

[rubl]

You have just proved that very point. BLIND if you cannot face the facts before you. Clearly, there was heavy weapons in circulation amongst the red camp.

And they weren't used because?

The only 'heavy' weapons I remember are the 60+ M79 grenade attacks, but mostly in the night towards innocent bystanders, police and army. Mind you, even molotov cocktails or simple sharpened bamboo sticks can kill people.

[Crushdepth]

And if you believe Reds use M79, it's fair for anti-Abhisit/elites to accuse this Gov as criminal against humanity due to the fact that this Gov ordered troops to use live ammu killing civilians.

On April 10 the army tried to disperse the crowd with *riot gear only*. Reds threw grenades and shot at them. Next time, of course they used live ammunition.

What did you expect?

[shrekroma]

And if you believe Reds use M79, it's fair for anti-Abhisit/elites to accuse this Gov as criminal against humanity due to the fact that this Gov ordered troops to use live ammu killing civilians.

On April 10 the army tried to disperse the crowd with *riot gear only*. Reds threw grenades and shot at them. Next time, of course they used live ammunition.

What did you expect?

Hunting down blacks by shooting Reds ? brilliant logic.

Before Apr 10, M79 fell off numerous times. Not once this Gov could capture the responsible persons who did it.

Finally when they were believed to stay among reds, this Gov managed to use deadly force to seal the deal.

The result was a catastrophe: 80 people dead, including jounalists, medics, nurses even troops (friendly fire).

Despite 6 dead people killed in temples, I guess you still grade this Gov as doing excellent job.

Edited May 31, 2010 by shrekroma

[rubl]

And if you believe Reds use M79, it's fair for anti-Abhisit/elites to accuse this Gov as criminal against humanity due to the fact that this Gov ordered troops to use live ammu killing civilians.

On April 10 the army tried to disperse the crowd with *riot gear only*. Reds threw grenades and shot at them. Next time, of course they used live ammunition.

What did you expect?

Hunting down blacks by shooting Reds ? brilliant logic.

Before Apr 10, M79 fell off numerous times. Not once this Gov could capture the responsible persons who did it.

Finally when they were believed to stay among reds, this Gov managed to use deadly force to seal the deal.

The result was a catastrophe: 80 people dead, including jounalists, medics, nurses even troops (friendly fire).

Despite 6 dead people killed in temples, I guess you still grade this Gov as doing excellent job.

Excellent may be a bit too much, but not bad, not really

[animatic]

I don't know why Thaksin hired Amsterdam. The guy looks like a ferret and is a pretty lousy face man. His performance in the Al Jazeera interview was pitiful.

AMSTERDAM MAN ,,

was hired by thaskin ,,,

just in case ,, he is detained by interpol .

very unlikely , the thai goverment ,

will ask interpol , to detain thaskin.

More correctly to spin the story Thaksins way, on the world stage,

before it even gets to Interpols desks.

They are trying to sell the Thaksin line world wide using the full posibilities of

mass media and internet connectivity. If you tell a BIG LIE big enough, long enough,

and with little variation, it eventually takes on the patina of facts, without the basis of fact.

As long as other voice don not goe silent in the face of

unrelenting abuse to all those countering that storyline...

And then they whip up some street sentiment from this base

against any kind of thought that goes against this story line.

Lots of different ways to see a story, and they will find those

with a leaning towards a useful thought pattern, and push them

a little in their chosen direction and build a none existent consensus

from many who mostly disagree, but have doubts, but can be led.

They are trying to play the world like their personal violin.

Only takes scads of money and no morals whatsoever.

As individual media consumers, we can read between the lines,

and read from many sources and form our own opinions,

or let them lead around by our underexercised mental nostrils.

This is just one more shot across our mental bows, to make us think

it's a just cause begin fought, when it's really just using a situation

artificialy created to make a cause to fight.

A world class con-job if ever they was one, and it's a long con.

[enginerevision]

The Tak Bai incident is an event that occurred on October 25, 2004 in Tak Bai, Thailand, which resulted in at least 85 deaths.

Six local men were arrested. A demonstration was organized to demand their release and the police called in army reinforcements. After some demonstrators threw rocks and attempted to storm the police station, security forces used tear gas and gunfire in response.

--

Where you guys see 3000 deaths?

[rabo]

Good news here.

The only way to get a true independent investigation is to get some proper international human rights lawyers and investigators to look into this, and if necessary file charges against the government, and certain people who were in the CRES, with the International Criminal Court, and make the UNHRC fully aware of what has happened.

It is very sad to see army snipers allegedly shooting to kill civilians. It is very sad to see many people reported "missing" and the CRES is not willing to post lists of names of people held in detention. We have seen pictures of red shirts and monks blindfolded and handcuffed, and many people have not returned home. Why is the CRES unwilling to release the list of names of all detained people and where they are ?

It has been reported that some death certificates have been filled in incorrectly, with relatives insisting the cause of death is changed to bullet wound to the head as for some reason this was not recorded as the cause of death even though there is a bullet wound directly through the head. No idea why some people appear to be trying to cover up the cause of death ?? Any ideas ?

Media freedoms and basic human rights were allegedly infringed with the cutting off of media access, internet access, web site access and many other forms of basic human rights.

A full, thorough and proper investigation by international rights experts and war crimes lawyers is a good way of ensuring that if there are any breaches here, they will be found out, and it will also ensure such breaches, if they happened, will never happen again.

If anyone here cares about Thai's they will have no objections to this investigation.

The investigation and all else aside, let's cut the crap of posters saying or suggesting they alone care for the "Thai People" and that "if" anyone here "cares" about the Thai people and Thailand, we'd have to agree with you, accept what you like, believe what you say, support what you defend; advocate that which you say or propose.

It sounds something like, "I am for the Thai people. (I therefore, I have the right to ask:) Are you now or have you ever been against the Thai people?"

Grow up.

L_head, Glad you are not part of an "independent" investigation, you have, without investigation or evidence, already decided guilt! I can see you selecting a jury, "Do you agree to find the defendent guilty?"

A investigation, a real one, will need to include all participants and understand what really happened, and I think a whole lot of people would welcome that. It must also include the prime suspect Mr. Thaksin and they might as well start with his own human rights violations, which the international community complained about at the time. Before a real investigation can draw conclusions, it will have to answer a lot of tough questions like who was blowing up power pylons, who was sabotaging fuel depots, who shot 100 soldiers on April 10th, who assassinated their commanding officer? Who shot Seh Daeng? Who shot Sondhi? Who fired RPGs at the Dusit Hotel with reporters inside? Who fired hundreds of M79 grenades and other bombs? Who were the Ronin? And, who funded the red operation? Who knew about the torching of the city in advance? How many times did the red leaders call for arson and destruction? Who paid these guys?

Why did the police do nothing? Did the military deploy the 237 million baht worth of riot gear and rubber bullet guns recently purchased? What orders were given to the soldiers? When? Did they follow them? Exactly when and how many times did the soldiers come under fire? Who fired the grenades on April 21? Were reporters and medical workers really targeted? Who targeted them and why? Who was responsible for the shootings at the temple? How many people died, and, who were they, what were they doing? How many weapons did the reds have. Who made the car bombs.

I would also like to see some accountability on the part of the international community on why did they not take Thailand's concerns about Thaksin and his activities more seriously.

Then, figure out who did what and punish anyone who did serious wrong.

[gl9999]

And if you believe Reds use M79, it's fair for anti-Abhisit/elites to accuse this Gov as criminal against humanity due to the fact that this Gov ordered troops to use live ammu killing civilians.

On April 10 the army tried to disperse the crowd with *riot gear only*. Reds threw grenades and shot at them. Next time, of course they used live ammunition.

What did you expect?

Hunting down blacks by shooting Reds ? brilliant logic.

Before Apr 10, M79 fell off numerous times. Not once this Gov could capture the responsible persons who did it.

Finally when they were believed to stay among reds, this Gov managed to use deadly force to seal the deal.

The result was a catastrophe: 80 people dead, including jounalists, medics, nurses even troops (friendly fire).

Despite 6 dead people killed in temples, I guess you still grade this Gov as doing excellent job.

I rate them as only 'good'. I would have given them an 'excellent' rating if their snipers had managed to take out Arisman also.

[rubl]

The Tak Bai incident is an event that occurred on October 25, 2004 in Tak Bai, Thailand, which resulted in at least 85 deaths.

Six local men were arrested. A demonstration was organized to demand their release and the police called in army reinforcements. After some demonstrators threw rocks and attempted to storm the police station, security forces used tear gas and gunfire in response.

--

Where you guys see 3000 deaths?

We were lucky, we didn't SEE it.

Depending on what sources you use you can get to

- 2500+ drugwar deaths

- 85 Tak Bai

- 32+ Krue Sae

Sad, but true and mostly ignored is that down south people are killed on a daily base. Some by terrorists, some by police/army. Try this as a starting point and venture from there

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thailand_insurgency

Edited May 31, 2010 by rubl