PM Abhisit With Grave Concern Over Thailand's Severe Drought Problem

[RickBradford]

^^^

That was a report, not a forecast.

[dumball]

'RickBradford' date='2010-06-11 10:14' timestamp='1276226046' post='3679374']

^^^

That was a report, not a forecast.

Thank you for the nudge , I stand corrected , dumball .

[BlackJack]

this is Thailand - its reactive and not proactive

and so bores maybe the go and longer term find another solution if needed

Bangkok is built on the old waterways and so this is why its sinking

The situation is more complicated that what you stated.

Bangkok is sinking............true. Why?

There is an aquifer beneath Bangkok. Above the aquifer is a clay layer.

The aquifer is being drained to support economic activity (among other things).....that is the main cause of sinking.

In addition, the destruction of mangrove forests is playing a role.

On the other side, climate change is causing the sea level to rise.

The combination of sinking plus sea level rise will lead to massive flooding in years to come.

That will be an economic disaster the likes of which Thailand has never seen.

But we are off topic again..............this is about drought in Thailand.

If you and the other "skeptics" want to debate global warming and climate change (and it seems that you do), start a new thread.

But I will have nothing to say to most of you...........already put most of you on "ignore."

The MOD clearly does not want us debating global warming and climate change on this thread.

Readers do, however, deserve an xplanation when misleading information is posted.

I am sorry MOD but have a look at this

nothing i have said warrants this rhetoric

using my post to reply(when he said he wouldnt ever in an earlier post) to drum up the old name calling nonsense again is just not on!

Nothing said in my post debates global warming or change and nothing i have said is misleading.

[BlackJack]

So , In a nutshell 'The whole of Thailand is about to experience a deluge ' , that most certainly is good news , as long as the forecast is correct .

its rained for 4 nights here in Chonburi area

lots of run off into the sea

i wont be swimming there for a while now

BTW - a mining co in northern Thailand sunk a bore for a neighboring farm and they are now getting 4 crops of rice per year

[RickBradford]

It seems to be raining rather more heavily than in the typical 'severe drought'.

From the Thai Meteorological Department:

Northern Part: Scattered to fairly widespread rain and heavy to very heavy rainfall in some areas, except for widely scattered rain with heavy rainfall in some areas on 5 and 6 Jun.

Northeastern Part: Scattered to fairly widespread rain and heavy to very heavy rainfall in some areas. (115.0mm at Khon Kaen on 4 Jun.)

Central Part: Widely scattered to scattered rain and heavy rainfall in some areas, except for fairly widespread rain with heavy to very heavy rainfall in some areas on 4, 8 and 9 Jun.

Eastern Part: Scattered to fairly widespread rain and heavy rainfall in some areas.

Southern Part (East Coast): Widely scattered to scattered rain and heavy rainfall in some areas.

Southern Part (West Coast): Widespread rain and heavy rainfall in some areas. Thunderstorms and land slide at Phuket on 6 Jun. 76.9 mm at Phuket Airport

Metropolitan: Fairly widespread rain and heavy to very heavy rainfall in some areas.

Edited June 13, 2010 by RickBradford

[elkangorito]

I shall reiterate that it needs to rain in catchment areas before rainfall is beneficial for storage areas?

About 10 or so years ago in Australia, many people (city folk) were saying that the water level reports were lies. Their reasoning was that "It's been raining a lot in my location." Little did these people realise THEN, that the rain was not being caught (by catchment areas).

In the last 5 years or so, it's been realised by many Australians that rain does not necessarily equate to an abundance of water. Mind you, the 'country folk' always knew this.

[Tejas]

I shall reiterate that it needs to rain in catchment areas before rainfall is beneficial for storage areas?

About 10 or so years ago in Australia, many people (city folk) were saying that the water level reports were lies. Their reasoning was that "It's been raining a lot in my location." Little did these people realise THEN, that the rain was not being caught (by catchment areas).

In the last 5 years or so, it's been realised by many Australians that rain does not necessarily equate to an abundance of water. Mind you, the 'country folk' always knew this.

Thanks for the productive post.

I went to an online site..........a newspaper site we apparently can't mention on ThaiVisa (no idea why)...........and found a front page article on a proposed dam and the drought problem in Thailand.

Perhaps check it out............I would give you the link, but I think you know the paper I am talking about and how to find the online version.

One more thing to think about in relation to drought: Trees.

Trees store a lot of water. You can, in a way, think of them as water capture devices.

Remove them and you risk forming deserts. At the very least you risk causing serious flooding events after the drought breaks during the rainy season (trees store water, hold soil together, provide shade, absorb CO2, and liberate oxygen).

I see way too much tree cutting in Thailand..........often just for energy purposes (to make charcoal).

Hence, once again, the urgent need to develop and deploy a new energy system that can replace the archaic systems--making charcoal, using fossil fuels.

[BlackJack]

Chaiyo.

Khao Yai road project & tree falling to go ahead.

Is this the Thai approach to conservation?

Whatever, no more comments from me.

Might as well let the Trolls have it...........their comments are good for a laugh.

no comment means no comment

[Tejas]

Still trying hard to pick a fight........interesting.........you even followed me to another thread (Alternative Retirement Destinations to Thailand on the Southeast Asia section) and posted a comment designed to provoke an angry response.

Maybe at some point the MODs will decide they have had enough of your trolling.

Why did I say "no more comments from me?"

Simple: it seemed like the thread had ended (at least those that were providing positive and constructive responses had decided to end it).

Unfortunately, a couple of posters decided to give weather reports designed to give people the impression that there is no drought problem because it is raining (of course, denials will come, but the intent of the posts is obvious).

That type of logic is equivalent to going to the Sudan and entering a famine zone, given away a few meals, and then going home thinking there is no famine problem.

Elkangorito attempted to make it clear that there is a problem with the rainfall = no drought problem logic...........I did too (main problem is the dry season, not the wet season.........among other things).

After Elkangorito posted an interesting and productive post, I thought I would add more info.

I was responding to Elkangorito...........not you.

I am not a psychologist, but I think you are too obsessed with my posts (maybe add me to your ignore list).

It is also more than strange that you are apparently following me around ThaiVisa..........sort of like a stalker.

Maybe, if you have nothing to say that is productive, don't say it.

If you want to talk about a subject the MOD has said that we should not talk about on this thread, start a new thread.

I am sure you, RB, TC, and the other worshipers of the George C. Marshall Institute (funded in large part by Exxon-Mobile) will enjoy each others company.

[dumball]

I read an article a long time ago about the need of trees for waterway survival , a huge study showed that where the ( Sorry , forgot the name) barriers had been removed , it was not too great a period of time before the water followed suit , de-forestation is a great threat to peoples survival in more ways than one , think land slides etc . In the dessert , an oasis is invariably surrounded by trees .

[Tejas]

I read an article a long time ago about the need of trees for waterway survival , a huge study showed that where the ( Sorry , forgot the name) barriers had been removed , it was not too great a period of time before the water followed suit , de-forestation is a great threat to peoples survival in more ways than one , think land slides etc . In the dessert , an oasis is invariably surrounded by trees .

I think it might have been a Scientific American article back in the 80s.........with I could locate it again..........it had a fantastic summary section the global water problem..........no doubt there are many similar, more recent articles.

The Amazon region is producing evidence of a link between deforestation and rainfall patterns.

I know I have read about how these variables are all linked in parts of Africa: deforestation, rainfall, soil erosion, land degradation, desertification, famine, migration.

UN documents no doubt contain such information.

The message, of course, is clear for Thailand: If you want to do something positive about the drought problem, stop cutting down so many trees and start planting as many trees as possible.

That is one part of the puzzle.

[Tejas]

I read an article a long time ago about the need of trees for waterway survival , a huge study showed that where the ( Sorry , forgot the name) barriers had been removed , it was not too great a period of time before the water followed suit , de-forestation is a great threat to peoples survival in more ways than one , think land slides etc . In the dessert , an oasis is invariably surrounded by trees .

This is interesting and relevant to the drought problem in Thailand: http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2005/deforest_rainfall.html

[BlackJack]

Still trying hard to pick a fight........interesting.........you even followed me to another thread (Alternative Retirement Destinations to Thailand on the Southeast Asia section) and posted a comment designed to provoke an angry response.

Maybe at some point the MODs will decide they have had enough of your trolling.

Why did I say "no more comments from me?"

Simple: it seemed like the thread had ended (at least those that were providing positive and constructive responses had decided to end it).

Unfortunately, a couple of posters decided to give weather reports designed to give people the impression that there is no drought problem because it is raining (of course, denials will come, but the intent of the posts is obvious).

That type of logic is equivalent to going to the Sudan and entering a famine zone, given away a few meals, and then going home thinking there is no famine problem.

Elkangorito attempted to make it clear that there is a problem with the rainfall = no drought problem logic...........I did too (main problem is the dry season, not the wet season.........among other things).

After Elkangorito posted an interesting and productive post, I thought I would add more info.

I was responding to Elkangorito...........not you.

I am not a psychologist, but I think you are too obsessed with my posts (maybe add me to your ignore list).

It is also more than strange that you are apparently following me around ThaiVisa..........sort of like a stalker.

Maybe, if you have nothing to say that is productive, don't say it.

If you want to talk about a subject the MOD has said that we should not talk about on this thread, start a new thread.

I am sure you, RB, TC, and the other worshipers of the George C. Marshall Institute (funded in large part by Exxon-Mobile) will enjoy each others company.

mmm

just love it when someone checks their facts then posts nonsense

signed member since 2003

[Tejas]

Your post has nothing to do with the topic. Perhaps give it a rest or the MODs will no doubt force a rest on you.

The topic is about the severe drought in Thailand.

There are people here who want to discuss this topic and perhaps point out solutions to problems that are causing it.

We have no desire to engage in unproductive (Inflammatory) discussions.

Move on.

[BlackJack]

as suggested i have put texas on ignore as have many others in other forums

so now i can post that its been raining in the CHonburi area for the past week

this area is part of the drought area that the PM refers to and so this is good news.

I think its raining now as its the wet season

Up north i have friends with farms and they are using bore water

this is a start until something else comes along

it should be remembered that Thailand is a reactive country and not proactive and if you dont like the "system" then find somewhere else to retire.

[Maestro]

DROUGHT

PM opposes cash handout plan for drought victims

By The Nation

Published on June 17, 2010

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said yesterday he opposed an Agriculture Ministry's plan to hand out Bt1,000 in cash to farming families affected by drought.

He said a better plan would be to offer manufacturing-material support.

Abhisit said when the Agriculture Ministry first came up with the plan, it proposed the handing out of manufacturing materials to distressed farmers.

"We have no intention of giving cash in this case," Abhisit said yesterday.

His government has called on farmers to postpone the start of their farming activities in the face of the drought to the middle of next month, indicating a plan to offer some compensation for the co-operative farmers is being prepared.

"But if we cannot find an appropriate form of compensation, we may not go ahead with it," Abhisit said.

He was speaking in response to reports the Agriculture Ministry would seek a Bt1billion budget for the plan to give Bt1,000 to each farming family.

Meanwhile, Deputy Prime Minister Sanan Kachornprasart looks set to revive a project to construct the Kaeng Sua Ten Dam in Phrae.

"I will look into its feasibility and its environmental impact," he said.

The project has long been shelved due to opposition from many quarters, but now Sanan suggests the drought has highlighted a need for more dams.

"We may scale down the size of the project," Sanan said.

In response to non-governmental organisations' complaints the project site would cover the country's last golden-teakwood plot, Sanan said the golden teakwood trees there were all gone by now.

"The dam, if constructed, would deliver huge benefits. The number of people to benefit from it would be greater than those negatively affected by its construction," Sanan insisted.

2010-06-17

[jombom]

The new proposed dam would add 6 million cubic metres of water to Thailand's storage capacity. This is badly needed, as I pointed out in post 16 on the first page of this thread. However, I was accused of being a troll, but that's life. There are morons with keyboards everywhere.

[Jimi007]

Your post has nothing to do with the topic. Perhaps give it a rest or the MODs will no doubt force a rest on you.

The topic is about the severe drought in Thailand.

There are people here who want to discuss this topic and perhaps point out solutions to problems that are causing it.

We have no desire to engage in unproductive (Inflammatory) discussions.

Move on.

Oh my! How long have you lived here? A lot of posting and not enough reading in the past five months? Hum... There's always a drought before it rains, it's called the dry season... What are the three seasons in Thailand? Old Thais tell me; hot , hotter and hottest... Or "cool," "hot" and wet. The wet season has started in the south... It will be dry in the north and northeast and then flood. Just like every other year.

as suggested i have put texas on ignore as have many others in other forums

so now i can post that its been raining in the CHonburi area for the past week

this area is part of the drought area that the PM refers to and so this is good news.

I think its raining now as its the wet season

Up north i have friends with farms and they are using bore water

this is a start until something else comes along

it should be remembered that Thailand is a reactive country and not proactive and if you dont like the "system" then find somewhere else to retire.

Why is the north poor? Because they rely on a rainy season. It's dry then floods, so what can you grow? Rice? Just the usual cycle, happens most every year. Same as northern India, totally dependent on the monsoon season. Water management, there is some, but not enough. And managing water affects the environment, not always in a good way... But please carry on, I was somewhat amused by the Tex Mex crying for help from moderators!

[Tejas]

Meanwhile, Deputy Prime Minister Sanan Kachornprasart looks set to revive a project to construct the Kaeng Sua Ten Dam in Phrae.

"I will look into its feasibility and its environmental impact," he said.

The project has long been shelved due to opposition from many quarters, but now Sanan suggests the drought has highlighted a need for more dams.

"We may scale down the size of the project," Sanan said.

In response to non-governmental organisations' complaints the project site would cover the country's last golden-teakwood plot, Sanan said the golden teakwood trees there were all gone by now.

"The dam, if constructed, would deliver huge benefits. The number of people to benefit from it would be greater than those negatively affected by its construction," Sanan insisted.

2010-06-17

Clearly Thailand needs to capture more water. Building more dams is a short-term solution.

The "drought" is not temporary in the sense of some short term weather phenomenon.

It is a climate problem............it is a population problem............it is an economic problem.

The rainy season will come............but the problem will persist.

The only way to deal with it is to tackle all of the problems that are causing it.

By the way, Thailand is not unique: the drought problem is impacting all of Southeast Asia and parts of East Asia (and South Asia....among other regions).

One major issue is the Mekong River.

For those who think this is all trivial and/or academic, think again.

Right now Thailand is divided : rural Reds vs urban Yellows. The Reds are, in large part, farmers. They are angry.......(not enough money is one major thing making them angry).

If this "drought" gets worse over the next few years (and there is no reason to assume otherwise), their incomes from farming operations will go down............what do you think will happen?

The "water problem" in Thailand could end up being the most serious strategic threat the country has ever faced.

[RickBradford]

If this "drought" gets worse over the next few years (and there is no reason to assume otherwise)

There is every reason to assume otherwise.

The best assumption is that Thailand's rainfall patterns will continue to show natural variability from year to year around a stable, long-term average. Business as usual.

Whether Thailand puts more pressure on its abundant water resources in future is an important but separate question -- Thailand is currently ranked as a water-rich country by scientists who have assessed water resource, access, capacity and use in countries worldwide.

Edited June 17, 2010 by RickBradford

[BlackJack]

i can say with certainty that the US Gulf of Mexico oil spill will have a great impact on the Earth and this will make Thailands weather patterns look so small as to not even raise a blip on the map.

As i said before any natural disaster will oversee any man made event.

The oil spill is one thing but scientists have now found that this is more like a volcano head and there are cracks covering hundreds of miles and all spewing oil out. Video is available.

If it blows as predicted it will change everything as we know it.

So peace love and happiness to all as things will start to change forever now.

Eat seafood while you can!!!

[Rucharee]

pay them 1,000 Baht each to buy vote?

[Tejas]

pay them 1,000 Baht each to buy vote?

I am sure farmers (mostly Reds) would feel better about the current govt. if they gave them all 1000 baht each.

No telling what the govt. will do.......... "offer manufacturing-material support" or "give them money."

Either way, it will not address the long term drought/climate problem facing Thailand.

It is good that, with regard to this serious issue, Thai govt. is not locked inside an insane "denial machine."

They do recognize the problem (as do most other countries) and are thinking about solutions.

[Jimi007]

pay them 1,000 Baht each to buy vote?

I am sure farmers (mostly Reds) would feel better about the current govt. if they gave them all 1000 baht each.

No telling what the govt. will do.......... "offer manufacturing-material support" or "give them money."

Either way, it will not address the long term drought/climate problem facing Thailand.

It is good that, with regard to this serious issue, Thai govt. is not locked inside an insane "denial machine."

They do recognize the problem (as do most other countries) and are thinking about solutions.

I disagree... Where I have a home in California has cycles of drought and wet weather. We just had a five year drought, this past winter was one of the wettest. The only dam that has been there for about 100 years still serves as the main water storage for the county. The county has grow in population more than 10 fold since I bought my house there, yet we still haven't run out of water. There are natural cycles, hot, cold, wet and dry...

As for you other assumption that all farmers here are "redshirts" they are not. My wife's parents are farmers and yellow. And others I know as well. But you are entitled to your opinions...

[Tejas]

The weather in California (a state I used to live in) is very different from Thailand and Southeast Asia. You are comparing apples to oranges.

For example, it does not snow in Thailand (snow is frozen water and it goes into the soil). The rainy period in the USA is extended...........it is long in comparison to Thailand.

The dry season is much longer in Thailand.............etc............apples to oranges.

The water management system in the USA is far better than it is in Thailand...........far more deep water lakes with dams...........different and more water-efficient agricultural practices, etc.

The impact of population on any given area is massively influenced by climate, weather, available resources, economic systems, technological innovations, etc. [Good example is the Netherlands]

No, all farmers are not Red shirts...........as I stated: "I am sure farmers (mostly Reds)......." The word is "mostly." That means, of course, not all of them are.

I should know since I live in a farming province.

There is ample evidence that suggest that drought conditions are widespread in Southeast Asia, parts of East Asia, and South Asia..........the dry and hot periods are getting hotter, more dry, and lasting longer.

These are not short-term weather events as some posters think...............these are climate change events that are disrupting natural cycles..........we are seeing "the tip of the iceberg."

But I am not going to debate the obvious here.............waste of time and the OP has told posters not to do it. Not only that, there is no debate

The real issue is what to do about it the problem before it gets out of hand............denial is not an option.

[Jimi007]

The weather in California (a state I used to live in) is very different from Thailand and Southeast Asia. You are comparing apples to oranges.

For example, it does not snow in Thailand (snow is frozen water and it goes into the soil). The rainy period in the USA is extended...........it is long in comparison to Thailand.

The dry season is much longer in Thailand.............etc............apples to oranges.

The water management system in the USA is far better than it is in Thailand...........far more deep water lakes with dams...........different and more water-efficient agricultural practices, etc.

The impact of population on any given area is massively influenced by climate, weather, available resources, economic systems, technological innovations, etc. [Good example is the Netherlands]

No, all farmers are not Red shirts...........as I stated: "I am sure farmers (mostly Reds)......." The word is "mostly." That means, of course, not all of them are.

I should know since I live in a farming province.

There is ample evidence that suggest that drought conditions are widespread in Southeast Asia, parts of East Asia, and South Asia..........the dry and hot periods are getting hotter, more dry, and lasting longer.

These are not short-term weather events as some posters think...............these are climate change events that are disrupting natural cycles..........we are seeing "the tip of the iceberg."

But I am not going to debate the obvious here.............waste of time and the OP has told posters not to do it. Not only that, there is no debate

The real issue is what to do about it the problem before it gets out of hand............denial is not an option.

Never mind, why bother? I still disagree... We don't have snow where I have a home in CA and we still only have the old dam for the entire county. But by all means, you must know it all... Do you know how to use the quotes in this forum or do you just know how to keep posting? Don't bother responding I've read enough dribble.

Edited June 17, 2010 by Jimi007

[RickBradford]

But I am not going to debate the obvious here

"What is obvious to the Fool is uncertain to the Wise" - ancient Persian saying

the dry and hot periods are getting hotter, more dry, and lasting longer.

In the short term, the Thai Meteorological Department disagrees -- it is predicting a rainy season of normal duration (and normal rainfall). In the long term, I am not aware of any research which finds that rainy seasons in South-East Asia are expected to get shorter -- it would be surprising if there were, given the complexity of the monsoon system and the multiplicity of factors involved. But, no doubt, to some people, this is 'obvious' as well.

Most models of 'climate change' predict that rainfall will be greater during the wet seasons, even if the wet seasons do not last any longer than before. No need for panic.

Edited June 17, 2010 by RickBradford

[Thai at Heart]

The never ending glut and drought of water can never be solved as long as the rural population continue to try to produce ever increasing volumes of rice.

Produce the same from less land, or the rice industry moguls(another euphemism for thieves) will have to accept that in 30 years time, the surplus volumes acceptable for export cannot be produced and they will have to fight over an ever decreasing volume available for export.

I can understand to a degree the government's dilemma. Everyone wants better irrigation systems today, but the farmers of this country are getting older and older. What is the point of providing irrigation systems if the farmers are not there to use it in 20 years time? What is the point in producing a crop that a large percentage has to be put into storage to maintain the global price? Crop diversification and a reduction of the rice production to a more balanced volume and fairer domestic price is the only way.

[Thai at Heart]

The never ending flood and drought of water can never be solved as long as the rural population continue to try to produce ever increasing volumes of rice.

Produce the same from less land, or the rice industry moguls(another euphemism for thieves) will have to accept that in 30 years time, the surplus volumes acceptable for export cannot be produced and they will have to fight over an ever decreasing volume available for export.

I can understand to a degree the government's dilemma. Everyone wants better irrigation systems today, but the farmers of this country are getting older and older. What is the point of providing irrigation systems if the farmers are not there to use it in 20 years time? What is the point in producing a crop that a large percentage has to be put into storage to maintain the global price? Crop diversification and a reduction of the rice production to a more balanced volume and fairer domestic price is the only way.

Edited June 17, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[Tejas]

Thanks for the on topic post.

Rice production is obviously suited for Thailand ( it is a long standing cultural tradition), but they do need to produce it in more efficient ways.

They also must plan for more severe and devastating climate change events. One way to introduce a bit of "protection" in the system is diversification.

So, I think the same as you: more crop diversification is in order.

Diversification is prudent in almost any system, especially agricultural systems.

They could do like many other countries are doing: shifting to drought resistant plants.

But these are all temporary solutions.

Like you, I think they need to consider exporting less food crops (less rice production for export) and move the economy away from agriculture (much less dependent on agriculture for export) to a more modern economy suitable for the 21st century.

Is the number of young Thais willing to engage in farming dwindling? I have no idea..........given population growth and the need for employment, my guess is that there will be plenty of young men willing to engage in farming for years to come.

For now, it seems impossible to get around the need for more deep water storage facilities.