Catching The Thai Houdini Won't Be Easy

[Samuian]

Reconciliation should be the word of the day, week, month, and year. Unfortunately the government doesn't look like it has any interest

Nor should it. Vast majority of the country is at peace and moving forward. Reds like to paint a picture of the entire country being split down the middle. It's a misconception. Reds need to perpetuate it because for them, they see "reconciliation" as their only chance of being white-washed of their crimes. Their leader is particularly in need.

Can't agree more!

Divide the Nation, split it's unity, make it weak, spread distrust,

blame the powers in charge, the "Elite", for every conceivable shortcoming,

has always been a simple and quite successful tool.

But here it looks the hard red core have taken it a wee bit too far, it had to be

this way, it was all the time on the "map" - desperately the "man behind the scene"

needed violence and dead people, blood in the streets, army, tanks and guns - after all

he got it!

I am not so sure that this plan can go off, after all, part of it has already,

unless that what has been spelled out in Post #76 comes to help, then my

reflections and acceptance of this say no to an "conspiracy" theory it's way too far off ...

then... who knows, I think it's a personal "face" (Ego), thirst for power thing,

and in this particular case has to do with the "marbles" of this former projectionist who came to fame

with the speed of light!

Unthinkable yet, still not impossible, if one looks at the energy,

money, manpower and time is invested in something I think all the time -

why this man doesn't walk off this all and plays golf till the very end of his day's - he won't lack anything!

[mazeltov]

Thaksin isn't my man.

That video is about Tak Bai, was has it to do with the current situation or my argument about the failed state? did thailand improve since Thaksin is gone or did it become worse and worse?

check the failed state index. read what FP mag thinks about Abhisit.

btw. Tak Bai

There was an investigation and a fact finding committee. Khunying Pornthip took part in that investigation.

long read:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/specials/takbai/p1.htm

I just love the way you use the face plams! It shows your maturity.

You claim that you are very educated, intelligent and have a very decent knowledge about Thailand and its history, but you are not able to connect the dots between past atrocities and future atrocities!

If the PM who was in power during the Tak Bai massacre ever returns from Dubai or Montenegro or France or wherever he is, perhaps he will be held accountable for his orders.

did you read the report from the investigation or did you just post your daily line of bitching about Thaksin without being bothered by facts and objectivity that much?

[jayboy]

The big problem with ever getting justice for the Tak Bai victims is that the dots that you refer to join up to Thaksin and many others in The Establishment, including (rather obviously) the army. Consequently, there is no will whatsoever in mainstream Thai politics to get to the bottom of this atrocity. hel_l! We used to have a rabidly anti-Thaksin, Pro PAD/Demo Thai poster going by the name of 'Plus' on TV who went to great lengths to try to pass off Tak Bai as an army logistics issue! Abhisit is one of the few politicians young enough and clean enough to go into this one, but he won't (at least, not properly). Anyway, look where it got him the last time he took on the army, over the 'bomb detector' corruption.

I don't remember Plus making this point.I hardly every agreed with him since we had quite different ideas about the narrative of Thai politics.Nevertheless he had a fiercely penetrating intelligence and was extremely well informed.

[rixalex]

We used to have a rabidly anti-Thaksin, Pro PAD/Demo Thai poster going by the name of 'Plus' on TV who went to great lengths to try to pass off Tak Bai as an army logistics issue!

Considering your posting history, it's interesting that you should be so familiar with a long-since banned member.

Guess you must have simply lurked for five years before joining the party.

[somchaibob]

Reconciliation should be the word of the day, week, month, and year. Unfortunately the government doesn't look like it has any interest

Nor should it. Vast majority of the country is at peace and moving forward. Reds like to paint a picture of the entire country being split down the middle. It's a misconception. Reds need to perpetuate it because for them, they see "reconciliation" as their only chance of being white-washed of their crimes. Their leader is particularly in need.

Exactly. It is a misconception! The country is not split at all. Its one big happy family

[rixalex]

Reconciliation should be the word of the day, week, month, and year. Unfortunately the government doesn't look like it has any interest

Nor should it. Vast majority of the country is at peace and moving forward. Reds like to paint a picture of the entire country being split down the middle. It's a misconception. Reds need to perpetuate it because for them, they see "reconciliation" as their only chance of being white-washed of their crimes. Their leader is particularly in need.

Exactly. It is a misconception! The country is not split at all. Its one big happy family

No, the country is not split. Does that mean that everyone has suddenly become a Democrat / Abhisit supporter? Of course not. It is possible for the citizens of a country to have a diverse range of political opinion without that meaning that the country is split? Yes. How come? Because (in my opinion), the vast vast majority of Thais, whatever their political pursuasion, are peaceful law-abiding people who have had enough of all this Thaksin / red nonsense and simply want the country to get back to normal. That desire unites them far more than any differences of opinion on other matters divides them.

Of course for Thaksin and the reds, national unity and peace is the last thing they need right now. Any chance they have hinges on there being no unity and there being no peace. Hence why we have people like you on here trying to tell us that neither exists.

[stepenwolf1958]

He's got the help of the globalists, that's why:

(excerpts)

Thaksin was a member of Carlyle Group’s Asian advisory board. He had bragged to media how, after being elected in 2001, he still served as a “match maker” for foreign investors.

Let there be no mistake that the future of Thailand is in peril. These protesters are not a grassroots freedom movement, but an insidious, engineered wave of violence meant to empty out Thailand’s upper and middle class, and roll the nation over into a fascist dictatorship “republic” under Thaksin Shinwatra and his globalist handlers.

Much more is obviously at work here behind this “red revolution.” The foreign media purposefully pleads ignorant to the statements of violence, admissions to murder, and calls to arms within the pages of the movements official publications. These calls and admissions are repeated on a daily basis by UDD leaders on the stage. BBC or CNN need only a single translator to expose this deadly plot for what it is. Yet they plead ignorant and show only dead protesters and the army relentlessly shooting them.

Freedom is marked by independence, independence is marked by knowledge. Please research the provided links above, and please dig in deeper yet to the crux of the truth. Thailand is the only nation in Southeast Asia to have resisted Western colonization and to this day they have resisted Monsanto’s attempts to spread GMO crops, the movie and music industry’s attempt to impose draconian IP laws, big pharma’s attempts to fleece the Thai people with their overpriced medication, and the overall drive to turn Thailand into yet another centralized consumerist gulag. Free markets (and black markets) still thrive, still do the best job of spreading the wealth and giving people access to modern conveniences. This is an appeal not for your support, but for you to search for the truth and not react instinctively to hyped headlines and one-sided reporting.

Red shirt leaders and Thaksin both told international press unsubstainiated reports that the army had killed “hundreds” and secretly disposed of the bodies, somehow right under the nose of both local and foreign press. It becomes Orwellian when one considers that Thaksin has lobbyists and PR firms working for him with connections in all the major news media outlets and within the government of the United States. Red shirt leaders insist that the foreign media is in fact, working against them.

Sam Moon of the Economist handles Thaksin’s PR and after his hiring, critical articles of both the Thai government and the revered Thai monarchy began immediately appearing in the Economist.

Next on deck is Barbour, Griffith, and Roberts, out of Washington D.C. One of Washington’s most influential lobbyist firms, BGR most likely isn’t merely holding press conferences for their new client Thaksin Shinwatra.

http://www.infowars.com/thailands-thaksin-...ts-and-the-nwo/

Highly appreciate your attitude, your call for calmness and realism here.

I could agree with you in almost all you said.

As you said, red shirts today might be "not a grassroots freedom movement, but an insidious, engineered wave of violence meant to empty out Thailand’s upper and middle class, and roll the nation over into a fascist dictatorship “republic” under Thaksin Shinwatra and his globalist handlers." but even if truth, we should think why is that so?

Decades ago (not a few years), those areas with today's red shirts, were underestimated, ignored, abused, mistreated or treated as a second class citizens and what is going on today is just the price for decades of minorizing those people.

Budget was going all to the Bangkokians and just a few more areas and not any of previous governments thought about Isan people.

So, today even someone who never lived in Thailand, will be able to tell you which area is poorest in Thailand. Yes, it's exactly the area where the red shirts are from.

Next, arrogancy of all previous establishments, which were elected from upper and higher parts of society only or mostly, all of these decades, continued to hold Isan people in poverty.

So, it's always easy to manipulate with porrest part of any society, easy to call them to riots or even to make revolution.

Wisdom of the governments is to pay attention to this delicate category of people, if nothing else then just for their own benfit. To stay on power as long as possible.

In Thailand were not such wisdom in previous governments so Thailand is today in peril.

Not just Mr. Thaksin but any other in his shoes would do the same. Now, all we can do is just to guess did he make good things for poorest people from his heart or just for some his calculation but the FACT IS he madea good things for poor people.

I will not defend him, but he was the only one who made something good for the poorest people in Isan, today's red shirts. Of course, there will be always someone who will use dissatisfaction of the poorest layers, parts of society for his own benefits or power.

That is in nature of human kind and in any part of this world so it's the same maybe here, with acting of Mr. Thaksin toward poorest people in Thailand, Isan or red shirts.

I could agree with you about it but it is fault of previous governments and any arrogancy from present government now would be just puting oil to fire.

Isan area is like an ulcus, will grow and grow until burst out, explode.

As you are speaking about Thai society and as you mentioned classes in Thai society, you should know this is fight between factions.

Doesn't matter it is yellow-red clash, could be any other colour.

The main problem is oligarchy, modern and fast money people, yellows and reds are factions which have to sit and talk. Unfortunatelly not any of them want to sit and talk.

As you said for the reds what they are trying to do, i could say for yellows what they are trying to do but that talk goes nowhere. For me, yellows are the same.

If reds are trying to "clean" the country from upper and middle class, i could say the same for yellows that they are trying to keep money elites and oligarchy intacta.

I mind you as you presented all simplified.

To talk about classes in Thai society but from one point of view only, is very wrong as Thai society is very complex so you should not simplify all.

The present government have a hot potato now to handle it. It is heritage from the careless previous governments.

The problem is not so simple as you presented here and it is far away from way you see it, sorry.

Something else is on my minds now.

Way you speak here is very interesting and it makes me think who you are and what makes you say like this.

You plead here to all of us "not react instinctively". You are doing opposite by qualifying red shirts and Mr. Thaksin as:

- "These protesters are not a grassroots freedom movement, but an insidious, engineered wave of violence meant to empty out Thailand’s upper and middle class"

- "and roll the nation over into a fascist dictatorship “republic” under Thaksin Shinwatra and his globalist handlers."

- "statements of violence, admissions to murder, and calls to arms within the pages of the movements official publications."

- "These calls and admissions are repeated on a daily basis by UDD leaders on the stage."

- "BBC or CNN need only a single translator to expose this deadly plot for what it is. Yet they plead ignorant and show only dead protesters and the army relentlessly shooting them.

It is very easy to refute the thesis you made here but i will not do it. I am calling you just to see an article in Bangkok Post about the way no confidence debate was made so to see there was not even D of democracy.

Controled channel NBT covered all session, debate but when red shirt presented their footages and videos, there were not zoomed in on that.

Opposite, when Mr. Abhisit presented their footages and videos, there WERE zoomed in on all videos.

Do you know what is that mean? Should i tell you?

All of this made you very, very"coloured" and you have right to have your idol, even if that is government made of 6 parties in coalition, you have right on your opinion but don't call others to don't react instinctively but you are doing it.

Don't try to was the brain to any of us here, please. It is impossible objective for you, even you are using very clever way to try.

Obviously, you are pro yellow but it is your right to be.

That way you only disqualified yourself as objective and realistic observer and commentator here.

[stepenwolf1958]

Thaksin is a failed state.

The only power he has is given to him by the press.

He has hired a team not to protect him but to keep his memory alive in Thailand.

The press is doing a good job of that.

Articles like this one do nothing except give the malcontents room to spew there nonsense

news flash

Thailand is alive and well on the road to recovery after terrorists attacks. If you don't like it go back to where you came from.

yes, right back on the road to ABnormal. Name the countries in the World that would allow someone who commandeered and terrorised an International Airport to be free to run the affairs of the country. Are you one of the hecklers who could not believe the red movement was underestimated, when a few of us were warning?

Only 2 words are needed to prove Thailand is a broken country. Thaksin / Sondhi <<< That is what is killing a beautiful Kingdom folks. That is what is going to destroy it.

What happened in May was the warning shots across the bow. The calm before the storm.

Does anybody think the situation is not, now, worse? One side now has martyrs. NEVER give the enemy martyrs. Oh, there is still the little thing about 'elections' and when the criminal Sondhi will allow that. I think all sides learned, or should have, to not rely on Divine Intervention!

I really, really, really do NOT want to be right, again.

Instead of a complete break up, may I suggest a 'lesser of evils' alternative. Keep the country together by going completely North Korean and Burmese style, instead of only half/half. That would be less bad than the worse bad coming up.

In other words, wake up as soon as possible.

Comments like this poor guy jayjay and few more here, will not help, for sure.

To jayjay and any other, read please reports from Bangkok Post about WAY that no-confidence debate was made so you will understand what GOODHEARTED farangs here are speaking about your country and why(if you are Thai at all)

I really don't know why they had the no confidence vote. To be Honest I never gave it a thought. I took it as a matter of course that they would. In a transparent democracy that is the only course they can follow. By the way he is still the PM

Did the Bangkok post say they thought it was OK for people who would be on welfare in any other country to hold a gun to Thailand's head. In case you slept through it after ten days the whole world knew what they wanted. They knew they would not get it and the whole world knew they would not get it. Yet they chose to stay and interfere in the lives of thousands honest hard working Thai's, invade hospitals, bomb public terminals and try to burn the city down

If you followed this whole thing you will note that never did the red shirts try to solve the problem they maintained throughout the whole affair that they would only except a immediate resignation from the PM. The one time they changed that position they were taken by surprise when the government trying to bring a peaceful end to the situation excepted there demands only to have the red shirts add more demands. You are in real good company with them.

Your last words is your problem and many of your people here.

I am not in company with reds but more then sure i am not with yellows and i would never be as they do not know what is democracy, at all.

However, your attitude IF YOU ARE NOT WITH ME-YOU ARE AGAINST ME is pure madness.

You should learn to respect people even they think different then you and THAT is postulate of democracy.

When you learn that, let me know, please.

Until you are so deep coloured yellow and rude and impolite to foreigners in Thailand, i have nothing to tell you more. Radical people i never liked.

[Siam Simon]

We used to have a rabidly anti-Thaksin, Pro PAD/Demo Thai poster going by the name of 'Plus' on TV who went to great lengths to try to pass off Tak Bai as an army logistics issue!

Considering your posting history, it's interesting that you should be so familiar with a long-since banned member.

Guess you must have simply lurked for five years before joining the party.

Probably nearer three years, actually. After I used the visa threads about five years ago and got some good info from The Scouser (what happenned to him?), I was kinda busy with family and business for a couple of years. Then I started reading TV again occasionally, gradually more often. I wasn't really that bothered about posting on internet forums again, but I found my login details in an old email addy that I had all-but abandoned and was searching for some other old info. I thought to myself, why not stick my tuppence in where it's wanted/not wanted?

What about you? You've been in Thailand for years but only joined TV relatively recently when things really started heating up in the country's affairs and consequently in the discussions on here. You must've heard about and read TV for a long time before you joined, surely?

[Siam Simon]

The big problem with ever getting justice for the Tak Bai victims is that the dots that you refer to join up to Thaksin and many others in The Establishment, including (rather obviously) the army. Consequently, there is no will whatsoever in mainstream Thai politics to get to the bottom of this atrocity. hel_l! We used to have a rabidly anti-Thaksin, Pro PAD/Demo Thai poster going by the name of 'Plus' on TV who went to great lengths to try to pass off Tak Bai as an army logistics issue! Abhisit is one of the few politicians young enough and clean enough to go into this one, but he won't (at least, not properly). Anyway, look where it got him the last time he took on the army, over the 'bomb detector' corruption.

I don't remember Plus making this point.I hardly every agreed with him since we had quite different ideas about the narrative of Thai politics.Nevertheless he had a fiercely penetrating intelligence and was extremely well informed.

Here you go:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Soldier....html&st=50

[rixalex]

Considering your posting history, it's interesting that you should be so familiar with a long-since banned member.

Guess you must have simply lurked for five years before joining the party.

Probably nearer three years, actually. After I used the visa threads about five years ago and got some good info from The Scouser (what happenned to him?), I was kinda busy with family and business for a couple of years. Then I started reading TV again occasionally, gradually more often. I wasn't really that bothered about posting on internet forums again, but I found my login details in an old email addy that I had all-but abandoned and was searching for some other old info. I thought to myself, why not stick my tuppence in where it's wanted/not wanted?

What about you? You've been in Thailand for years but only joined TV relatively recently when things really started heating up in the country's affairs and consequently in the discussions on here. You must've heard about and read TV for a long time before you joined, surely?

The reason why i think your posting history appears somewhat suspicious and takes / requires a bit of explaining, is that you signed up such a long time ago and then simply left the site in terms of making contributions, to then suddenly appear a few months ago and start posting frequently.

These last few months there have been a number of trolls popping up with the same sort of history. Guess they set up accounts to leave dormant, in the case of being banned and requiring a "new" one that they feel will be less suspicious than opening a new account now.

Suspicions are then raised further when in cases such as yours, you show past knowledge from the site that would require something more than a fleeting visit to know about - ie your comment about ex-member Plus.

Anyway, you have given your explanation, although you weren't obliged to give one - not to me anyway - and that is appreciated and will be taken at face value.

As for me, yes i have lived permanently here for over a decade, but in the early years only really knew about Stickman, in terms of Thai sites. Had heard of Thaivisa but never explored it as the name led me to believe that it was simply a site that discussed visa issues. I'm sure there are many like me who never use the site for the same reason. Crap name. Sorry George.

Anyway, this is way off topic and i apologise for that.

Back to our man Houdini...

[TheOldWolf]

If you are agianst the red shirt movement, their leaders, Dear leader and what they did to Thailand, it doesn´t mean that you are against the rural people in ALL Thailand. But maybe you don´t support easy handouts, but politics that will make things better in the long run, like better education, make people think by themselves, hard work against corruption in EVERY level of the society etc.

I think most of the anti-reds here on TV supports this, but not the red movement and what they stands for.

[SpoliaOpima]

2 logical possibilities

1. I'm the grim reaper

2. jayjay has his head in the sand

------

I believe? we both admire Abhisit, me as a man, JJ as a politician,

and we would all love to see a stable, peaceful and prosperous Thailand...

I actually HOPE I am wrong, but see nothing on the horizon to stop the next big wave.

Written proof, in dozens of posts, and emails to Thais, I predicted these recent events from about a year ago. A brilliant Thai in 2007 told me Thailand will break up into 3 countries.

The situations and signs that led up to Spring 2010 have grown bigger not smaller.

------------

I spent considerable time and effort, last year, trying to warn of what was coming. "two trains heading for collision" "the water is off the beach, the tsunami is coming"

NOW I am saying "the fault lines are in place for a break up of Thailand"

If my Solutions canNOT be adhered to, it would be better to go all Burma N Korea style as a lesser of evils solution. Why be 1/2 an oppresive state and 1/2 a modern open state???

This oil and water situation in Thailand will never, EVER work.

EDIT the ONLY way Thailand will be saved is when the criminal Thaksin AND the criminal Sondhi are behind bars.

What civilised advanced country would allow somebody to like Sondhi to A. walk the streets, B. dictate Government policy.

In my Plan, the reds and yellows are, both, happily and peacefully disbanded.

There's always possibility 3. Your brain has been eaten my snakes:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Happened-Tod...t&p=3669801

[rixalex]

If you are agianst the red shirt movement, their leaders, Dear leader and what they did to Thailand, it doesn´t mean that you are against the rural people in ALL Thailand.

Indeed. If the red shirt movement actually cared about the issues it claims to, it would have very broad appeal. Red shirts like to believe that if you are against them, you are against the down-trodden rural poor. It's simply not true.

[mazeltov]

As for me, yes i have lived permanently here for over a decade, but in the early years only really knew about Stickman, in terms of Thai sites. ...

55555

The stickman site kind of expert _expat... no surprise.

[Rucharee]

As for me, yes i have lived permanently here for over a decade, but in the early years only really knew about Stickman, in terms of Thai sites. ...

55555

The stickman site kind of expert _expat... no surprise.

Who is Stickman?

[somchaibob]

The reason why i think your posting history appears somewhat suspicious and takes / requires a bit of explaining, is that you signed up such a long time ago and then simply left the site in terms of making contributions, to then suddenly appear a few months ago and start posting frequently.

These last few months there have been a number of trolls popping up with the same sort of history. Guess they set up accounts to leave dormant, in the case of being banned and requiring a "new" one that they feel will be less suspicious than opening a new account now.

Suspicions are then raised further when in cases such as yours, you show past knowledge from the site that would require something more than a fleeting visit to know about - ie your comment about ex-member Plus.

Anyway, you have given your explanation, although you weren't obliged to give one - not to me anyway - and that is appreciated and will be taken at face value.

As for me, yes i have lived permanently here for over a decade, but in the early years only really knew about Stickman, in terms of Thai sites. Had heard of Thaivisa but never explored it as the name led me to believe that it was simply a site that discussed visa issues. I'm sure there are many like me who never use the site for the same reason. Crap name. Sorry George.

Anyway, this is way off topic and i apologise for that.

Back to our man Houdini...

Keep in mind that this governement is blocking websites that air views that are critical of the governement. Nobody wants this website shut down. Its no wonder then that the political threads have become overrun with pro-government supporters.

[rixalex]

As for me, yes i have lived permanently here for over a decade, but in the early years only really knew about Stickman, in terms of Thai sites. ...

55555

The stickman site kind of expert _expat... no surprise.

My only claim was that Stickman was the only Thai site i knew about. Nothing more. You obviously know about it too. Guess that makes you a stickman site kind of expert_expat as well then - whatever the &lt;deleted&gt; that means....

Edited June 7, 2010 by rixalex

[Insight]

As for me, yes i have lived permanently here for over a decade, but in the early years only really knew about Stickman, in terms of Thai sites. ...

55555

The stickman site kind of expert _expat... no surprise.

It's very much not a political site, but I hope you took the time to read his "No Longer Neutral" article - and this is from somebody who is fluent in Thai, had spoke with many of the protesters and appeared to embrace the red shirt movement when it first started kicking off this year. Here you go.

[Samuian]

<!--quoteo(post=3670174:date=2010-06-06 16:40:18:name=TheOldWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheOldWolf @ 2010-06-06 16:40:18) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3670174"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you are agianst the red shirt movement, their leaders, Dear leader and what they did to Thailand, it doesn´t mean that you are against the rural people in ALL Thailand.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Indeed. If the red shirt movement actually cared about the issues it claims to, it would have very broad appeal. Red shirts like to believe that if you are against them, you are against the down-trodden rural poor. It's simply not true.

Well, Abhisit admitted on his briefing to the DC in Bkk - that there is nothing wrong with the PEACEFUL demonstrating Reds and that they have they right to do so.... but that SOME UDD/DAAD Laeder, who are caught with evidence inciting violence and arson attacks are going tobechaerged according to thelaw.

And that (social) issues regarding the red shirt movement's moaning, will be addressed, step by step..

[animatic]

The reason why i think your posting history appears somewhat suspicious and takes / requires a bit of explaining, is that you signed up such a long time ago and then simply left the site in terms of making contributions, to then suddenly appear a few months ago and start posting frequently.

These last few months there have been a number of trolls popping up with the same sort of history. Guess they set up accounts to leave dormant, in the case of being banned and requiring a "new" one that they feel will be less suspicious than opening a new account now.

Suspicions are then raised further when in cases such as yours, you show past knowledge from the site that would require something more than a fleeting visit to know about - ie your comment about ex-member Plus.

Anyway, you have given your explanation, although you weren't obliged to give one - not to me anyway - and that is appreciated and will be taken at face value.

As for me, yes i have lived permanently here for over a decade, but in the early years only really knew about Stickman, in terms of Thai sites. Had heard of Thaivisa but never explored it as the name led me to believe that it was simply a site that discussed visa issues. I'm sure there are many like me who never use the site for the same reason. Crap name. Sorry George.

Anyway, this is way off topic and i apologise for that.

Back to our man Houdini...

Keep in mind that this governement is blocking websites that air views that are critical of the governement. Nobody wants this website shut down. Its no wonder then that the political threads have become overrun with pro-government supporters.

I guess it never occured to you that so many of us might find this government, while imperfect

head shoulders waist and thighs above the alternative. I have been here during Thaksin's reign,

and never want that to return, nor Chalerm's, nor the ever efficient PPP under Somchai.

Those that can govern can get my support, those that have shown they can NOT, never will.

"Over-run", guess you are feeling a bit marginalized right now... too bad.

I guess it is hard to imagine for some 'dead set for red' that in spite of

all propaganda to the contrary, many here support the current government

for LOGICAL reasons and not emotional or worse, purchased reasons.

This government gets roundly criticized here, and never has word come down saying to close it.

That's because sedition and insurrection and anti-monarchy talk are not allowed.

As well they should NOT be. They are not germain to critique of the government for it's functioning.

Unless you are lost in Wengs far-leftist world view. Remember this is his SECOND round

at trying to bring down the house around him for his ideology... some zealots never learn.

Edited June 7, 2010 by animatic

[virtualtraveller]

It's so easy for Thaksin and his fans to brush this off as 'politically motivated'. Truth is, it IS politically motivated because you have an exiled criminal former Prime Minister evading justice while simultaneously stirring up a revolution and financing it from abroad. There is plenty of evidence to suggest Thaksin has played a major part in financing, encouraging and directing the recent protests and that certain terrorist elements are linked to him, if not directly, through 'prior knowledge'.

Now, if this case was in the US, or compared to how Bin Laden was behind the terror attacks of 9/11 even though he was sitting in a cave somewhere, then yes, Thaksin should be equally judged as being suspected of encouraging for terrorist activities. Certainly the CIA would be going after him in every corner of the world, invading countries who harbour him and getting away with it (oh, and incidentally not be referred to as a failed state or laughing stock of the world).

It's a pity there is the background of the coup for it gives Thaksin and excuse to rubbish the Thai legal system and claim that every verdict against him is politically motivated. But the truth of the matter is that the cases so far have been thorough, transparent and lengthy (5 hours to read a verdict!), and so far no major international observers or organisations have come out and said the verdicts were questionable.

Everyone sees this warrant for his arrest as a desperate attempt by the govt to get Thaksin but actually they are following the correct procedure to investigate and arrest people involved in terrorist activities that have caused a very serious threat to the nation's security recently. Furthermore, Thaksin is not guilty yet of terrorism, he stands accused on some substantial evidence and if he is confident that he's innocent and had no involvement whatsoever in the terror acts, then why not come to Thailand and fight the charges and clear his name.

[Siam Simon]

<!--quoteo(post=3670102:date=2010-06-06 15:59:55:name=Siam Simon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Siam Simon @ 2010-06-06 15:59:55) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3670102"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=3669575:date=2010-06-06 06:06:55:name=rixalex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rixalex @ 2010-06-06 06:06:55) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3669575"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Considering your posting history, it's interesting that you should be so familiar with a long-since banned member.

Guess you must have simply lurked for five years before joining the party. <img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="biggrin.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Probably nearer three years, actually. After I used the visa threads about five years ago and got some good info from The Scouser (what happenned to him?), I was kinda busy with family and business for a couple of years. Then I started reading TV again occasionally, gradually more often. I wasn't really that bothered about posting on internet forums again, but I found my login details in an old email addy that I had all-but abandoned and was searching for some other old info. I thought to myself, why not stick my tuppence in where it's wanted/not wanted?

What about you? You've been in Thailand for years but only joined TV relatively recently when things really started heating up in the country's affairs and consequently in the discussions on here. You must've heard about and read TV for a long time before you joined, surely?

<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The reason why i think your posting history appears somewhat suspicious and takes / requires a bit of explaining, is that you signed up such a long time ago and then simply left the site in terms of making contributions, to then suddenly appear a few months ago and start posting frequently.

These last few months there have been a number of trolls popping up with the same sort of history. Guess they set up accounts to leave dormant, in the case of being banned and requiring a "new" one that they feel will be less suspicious than opening a new account now.

Suspicions are then raised further when in cases such as yours, you show past knowledge from the site that would require something more than a fleeting visit to know about - ie your comment about ex-member Plus.

Anyway, you have given your explanation, although you weren't obliged to give one - not to me anyway - and that is appreciated and will be taken at face value.

As for me, yes i have lived permanently here for over a decade, but in the early years only really knew about Stickman, in terms of Thai sites. Had heard of Thaivisa but never explored it as the name led me to believe that it was simply a site that discussed visa issues. I'm sure there are many like me who never use the site for the same reason. Crap name. Sorry George. <img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

Anyway, this is way off topic and i apologise for that.

Back to our man Houdini...

Yes, there have been a lot of trolls popping up since the troubles flared again in March, most of them being anti-reds as I'm sure you noticed. I simply don't agree with your theory about posters creating duplicate accounts so early on in TV's history for the simple reason that (as you have noted) TV was not a well-known forum back in the day. And it was not noted as a hotbed of political discussion back then. That only came about around the time that you joined.

I will also accept your explanation, which is also appreciated, at face value.

[Siam Simon]

It's so easy for Thaksin and his fans to brush this off as 'politically motivated'. Truth is, it IS politically motivated because you have an exiled criminal former Prime Minister evading justice while simultaneously stirring up a revolution and financing it from abroad. There is plenty of evidence to suggest Thaksin has played a major part in financing, encouraging and directing the recent protests and that certain terrorist elements are linked to him, if not directly, through 'prior knowledge'.

Now, if this case was in the US, or compared to how Bin Laden was behind the terror attacks of 9/11 even though he was sitting in a cave somewhere, then yes, Thaksin should be equally judged as being suspected of encouraging for terrorist activities. Certainly the CIA would be going after him in every corner of the world, invading countries who harbour him and getting away with it (oh, and incidentally not be referred to as a failed state or laughing stock of the world).

It's a pity there is the background of the coup for it gives Thaksin and excuse to rubbish the Thai legal system and claim that every verdict against him is politically motivated. But the truth of the matter is that the cases so far have been thorough, transparent and lengthy (5 hours to read a verdict!), and so far no major international observers or organisations have come out and said the verdicts were questionable.

Everyone sees this warrant for his arrest as a desperate attempt by the govt to get Thaksin but actually they are following the correct procedure to investigate and arrest people involved in terrorist activities that have caused a very serious threat to the nation's security recently. Furthermore, Thaksin is not guilty yet of terrorism, he stands accused on some substantial evidence and if he is confident that he's innocent and had no involvement whatsoever in the terror acts, then why not come to Thailand and fight the charges and clear his name.

Of course Thaksin was/is corrupt, but don't you see that he is being made a scapegoat for a political system that is corrupt and rotten to it's core? If you think that legal agenda are hunky dory, sorry..... They were bad under Thaksin's rule and they are just as bad now. The five hour verdict happened for a reason, believe it-or-not . Why should Thaksin return to Thailand to clear his name? In my opinion he is guilty of so many abuses, but if the legal system was to be applied fairly and across the board, Thailand's political landscape would be all-but wiped out.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Siam Simon

[rabo]

It's so easy for Thaksin and his fans to brush this off as 'politically motivated'. Truth is, it IS politically motivated because you have an exiled criminal former Prime Minister evading justice while simultaneously stirring up a revolution and financing it from abroad. There is plenty of evidence to suggest Thaksin has played a major part in financing, encouraging and directing the recent protests and that certain terrorist elements are linked to him, if not directly, through 'prior knowledge'.

Now, if this case was in the US, or compared to how Bin Laden was behind the terror attacks of 9/11 even though he was sitting in a cave somewhere, then yes, Thaksin should be equally judged as being suspected of encouraging for terrorist activities. Certainly the CIA would be going after him in every corner of the world, invading countries who harbour him and getting away with it (oh, and incidentally not be referred to as a failed state or laughing stock of the world).

It's a pity there is the background of the coup for it gives Thaksin and excuse to rubbish the Thai legal system and claim that every verdict against him is politically motivated. But the truth of the matter is that the cases so far have been thorough, transparent and lengthy (5 hours to read a verdict!), and so far no major international observers or organisations have come out and said the verdicts were questionable.

Everyone sees this warrant for his arrest as a desperate attempt by the govt to get Thaksin but actually they are following the correct procedure to investigate and arrest people involved in terrorist activities that have caused a very serious threat to the nation's security recently. Furthermore, Thaksin is not guilty yet of terrorism, he stands accused on some substantial evidence and if he is confident that he's innocent and had no involvement whatsoever in the terror acts, then why not come to Thailand and fight the charges and clear his name.

Of course Thaksin was/is corrupt, but don't you see that he is being made a scapegoat for a political system that is corrupt and rotten to it's core? If you think that legal agenda are hunky dory, sorry..... They were bad under Thaksin's rule and they are just as bad now. The five hour verdict happened for a reason, believe it-or-not . Why should Thaksin return to Thailand to clear his name? In my opinion he is guilty of so many abuses, but if the legal system was to be applied fairly and across the board, Thailand's political landscape would be all-but wiped out.

There are not many words in your assessment that I could disagree with. The only one might be "scapegoat". One could alternatively view Thaksin as the first to hang. Even the view between scapegoat and first to hang is probably blurred. But honestly, for Thailand to progress, they must start somewhere. The dirty side of Thailand is the politics, not the people, not the military, and obviously not the monarchy. Thaksin was the best there ever was and the best there ever will be as far as all things bad. If Thailand is going to clean up, then Thaksin is the one to hang high for all to see.

The real scenario is more than likely the less bad rejecting the more bad, only to find their actions come back to haunt them. But this is the only way cleanup can start when all the apples are rotting. The only sector of Thai society that can follow through is the judiciary, which is in much better shape that most TV pop cynics snipe. I find it no surprise that the monarch has long bestowed heavy social responsibility on the judiciary.

When Somsak's govt came to power, he bestowed praise and responsibility on the judiciary, to the new politicians he could only say, "I know it's going to be tough for you, but please, at least try to do just a little bit of what you have been elected to do". A great line spoken to a newly elected government!

[Ricardo]

It's very much not a political site, but I hope you took the time to read his "No Longer Neutral" article - and this is from somebody who is fluent in Thai, had spoke with many of the protesters and appeared to embrace the red shirt movement when it first started kicking off this year. Here you go.

Excellent article, many thanks for the link !

I think many Thais will also have changed their view, over the past several months, of the Red-Shirt leadership & their DL, and look forward to seeing how this impacts the PTP's share of the vote, at the next election.

PM-Abhisit needs now to get back to running the country, and doing what he can for the poor, for the remainder of his term. This task will be made less-easy, by the fallout of the riots and terrorist-killings, which were getting wide-publicity overseas, and present yet-another reason for tourists & investors to avoid Thailand.

Nor would his return to Thailand help much. Better for him to continue to pursue his global-investments in far-away 3rd-world countries.

[LomSak27]

The international community will cooperate with Thailand if the government and legal system can show that it is accountable and transparent

The Thai Houdini will never be brought to "justice" until Thailand enters into substantive extradition agreements with foreign goverments and abides by them. They then have to show real substantive reasons why said Hourdini is guilty of whatever crime it is they accuse him of. Given this editorial I can conclude the idea of interpol taking up the case is dead and can be buried ...

Wonder what the next big idea will be ...

[RubbaJohnny]

Interesting about corrupt teachers and phoney degrees ,perhaps responsible for the Thaiglish Nation

While lubricated pundit slike myself typing for pleasure on a foreign keypad you woulld think

The Nation would employ a spellchecker or gadzooks a smellchecker,fortunately its lack of acumen in this area informs us of their jejeune mores and mindless subservience to the status quo ante.

Of course the lesson the students learn from corrupt seniors is that corruption is how to get things done.

A big shake down and a tad of dharma might be the remedy

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes ,who will govern the governors a free translation

[horndevil]

QUOTE When he was a rank-and-file member of the Phalang Dharma Party in the late 1990s, Thaksin boasted repeatedly that for the right amount of money you could get anyone to work for you. Everybody has a price.

This is the key to the whole thing. Thaksin always thought like this. He found out the hard way there are some genuinely good and moral people in Thailand who actually care more about the Thai people than they do about themselves.

No matter how rich he became, he couldn't buy off one group. They were not interested in money. They were interested in helping all Thais with no thoughts towards themselves. This idea is totally incompatible with Thaksin's distorted world view. For Thaksin, somebody with values and morals is a non sequitur.

I will never understand how anyone can support this evil cretin. He is truly an abomination to the human race, and the TV posters who are on his payroll should keep in mind just where that money is coming from. Are those few pieces of silver truly worth going over to the dark side?

The world will be a better place once this hellion of Satan is gone.

Before anyone starts blasting me, i do not support taksin... however he DID do some good for the country - he did get the government to take action and follow through.. i think the issue of Taksin has become so Black and White (with or against) that the middle ground where someone can say that yes, he was a corrupt little a-hole who did just about everything for his benifit - but also did do some good for the country and get it moving, is now lost in the background... just wanted to say that we all need to take a little step back and not only focus on the negative / positive of taksin and look at the man and his policies as a whole.

[clausewitz]

QUOTE (Nowhereman60 @ 2010-06-05 07:42:01) Whoever wrote this article is an idiot. The western world is laughing at Thailand. They know it is all political motivated, and that Thailand is a failed state.

Can you give some evidence to back up your statement...Thailand has and continues to receive Huge investments from overseas investors... this does not and would not happen in "a failed state' exactly the opposite, the world views Thailand as a powerhouse of Asia with a very strong and honest government. Why do you think the economy is still growing and the Thai baht is so strong.. Khwai everywhere..

Here is what NEWSWEEK writes:

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/06/04/the-end-of-brand-thailand.html#<br style=" ">The End of Brand Thailand<br style=">How mismanagement and mistakes turned a high-growth democratic paradise into a violent mess.<

">For years Thailand was synonymous with images of paradise: it was a thriving democracy with a 1997 Constitution that enshrined protections for human rights. It was an economic powerhouse that posted some of the world's highest growth rates in the 1980s and early 1990s, withstood the late '90s Asian financial crisis, and grew by 5.3 percent in 2002 and more than 7 percent the following year, as the rebound from the crisis took shape. Investors and tourists bought into the image of a tranquil kingdom of lush beaches and mountains, welcoming people, and stable politics—a "land of smiles" so alluring, it drew more than 13 million tourists per year. Thanks in part to the "Amazing Thailand" ad campaign—featuring glittering temples and stunning women—

And now? Brand Thailand is shattered. Over the past two months, clashes in Bangkok between the security forces and protesters clad in red have killed at least 80 people, gutted some of Bangkok's most important economic institutions, including the stock exchange and the largest shopping center, and destroyed the image of peace and tranquillity. The critical tourism industry, which accounts for as much as 8 percent of GDP, is gasping, at a time when regional competitors like Cambodia and Singapore are trying to steal Thailand's visitors. Of the nations once touted as the Asian tigers, or tiger cubs, including South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, and Malaysia, only Thailand is disintegrating. Its once vibrant democracy is now widely viewed as an ungovernable and failing state. Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva seems eager to postpone elections, and the last two elected governments were tossed out by undemocratic methods anyway. In its 2010 report, Freedom House scored Thailand as only "partly free" and ranked it among thuggish regimes like Burma for political rights. The U.S. State Department, which praised Thailand in 2000 for free elections and peaceful transfers of power, now chronicles its extrajudicial killings and its limits on freedom of speech and assembly.<

Edited June 8, 2010 by clausewitz