Economics Of Isaan

[IsaanAussie]

Thanks Kandahar,

It like most things here though, must be priced affordably. So the return rate for hours spent isn't what you could get "working" but who cares. It the thrill of it. Wish I had the drill press when I made te BBQ trolley though, a lot of dowels to align. Each of piece of the insert panels in the storage box requires 32 different cuts with router and saw. Heaps on reasons to spend time on a few simple jigs when router tables and drill presses aren't available.

All good fun.

For those interested in the finish on the teak. Firstly treat with chaindrite timber preserver, not that teak needs it but as a surface preparation. Next soak in Teak Oil and sand (I use a palm sander) wet until it forms a paste on the surface. This is the trick to getting a really good finish as the sanding dust combined with the il fills the surface. Let that get almost dry then wipe off the excess. Finish with teak coloured ICI external door finish. Four or five very thin layers, wet and dry sand between coats. Final polish with wax.

I dont like really shiny finishes but I do like smooth silky feeling ones.

Isaanaussie

[kandahar]

That's another thing that keeps me from becoming a wood guy. I haven't the patience for the finish. It just isn't in me. But I'm glad that you do have it. I always tend to think of woodworkers as artists, more than craftsmen.

[IsaanAussie]

That's another thing that keeps me from becoming a wood guy. I haven't the patience for the finish. It just isn't in me. But I'm glad that you do have it. I always tend to think of woodworkers as artists, more than craftsmen.

Painting used to be something I hated. But since I started this sort of work about 8 years ago the attitude has changed, now its "Can't wait to see it finished".

Here is another construction technic I use. Instead of teak and solid timber, using ply inserts into a solid frame structure. I think it looks pretty good and sure is better than many of the store bought tables I've seen. The table has three drawers, large one for place mats and table clothes, a cutlery drawer and a general storage drawer for bills and junk.

I will make tables like this without the drawers for the restaurant yet to be finished.

As a closing comment, I suppose my life now has a focused plan instead of just adapting to the twists and turns of a career. Make sense?

Isaanaussie

[kandahar]

It seems to me that you are focused enough. Success comes your way, I'm sure.

[IsaanAussie]

It seems to me that you are focused enough. Success comes your way, I'm sure.

I hope so, but of one thing I am certain, I have ten piglets who will be hungry as hel_l at the moment and probably have made quite a contribution to the compost bin. Time to go socialise, keep the ball rolling.

IA

[jubby]

Thats beautiful work IssanAussie; I've seen Khandahars work up close and its something special also. he's not kidding about the 100 year product lifetime.

Its a shame the rules about us working are so strict. must be there for a reason I suppose. Its not that thai's can't produce some beautiful stuff cause they can, but its top end and expensive.

but the normal stuff churned out does seem to be missing something, attention to detail maybe. I've got lots of teak garden Furniture myself, its just knocked together and licked with varnish and whats with the one size fits all screws they use, sticking out an inch everywhere.

I reckon you guys could keep up with the competition if it was a level playing field and turn your Hobbies into successful Business Ventures.

Maybe one day you'll both find a Thai Helper who's as passionate about his work as you two.

[IsaanAussie]

Thats beautiful work IssanAussie; I've seen Khandahars work up close and its something special also. he's not kidding about the 100 year product lifetime.

Its a shame the rules about us working are so strict. must be there for a reason I suppose. Its not that thai's can't produce some beautiful stuff cause they can, but its top end and expensive.

but the normal stuff churned out does seem to be missing something, attention to detail maybe. I've got lots of teak garden Furniture myself, its just knocked together and licked with varnish and whats with the one size fits all screws they use, sticking out an inch everywhere.

I reckon you guys could keep up with the competition if it was a level playing field and turn your Hobbies into successful Business Ventures.

Maybe one day you'll both find a Thai Helper who's as passionate about his work as you two.

Jubby thanks for the kind words. But if that happened, then it would just become yet another job. I hope that I continue to get a trickle of people wanting something that bit special that can challenge me to do the best I can. A few dollars, a challenge and an appreciated, quality result, that's motivating.

IA

[jubby]

Yeah, I can see that but never felt it. I can do a lot of things, but such attention to detail is beyond me. I've spent or should I say, wasted most of my adult life assisting a bank to make money

[IsaanAussie]

Kandahar,

Thought I would drop a few pictures of the pig sty steel work in the post. Probably 6 months ago, newer stuff still in my old fashioned camera.

Preparing to lay the floor, trenchs for the footings and the whole slab was laid.

3 views of the near completed frame, front view with klong in the foreground, back end which shows the second floor a little better and a side view showing the proportions better.

The building as seen here is 12 metres wide and 27 metres long.

K, heaps of prefabricated truss elements.

IA

[IsaanAussie]

Yeah, I can see that but never felt it. I can do a lot of things, but such attention to detail is beyond me. I've spent or should I say, wasted most of my adult life assisting a bank to make money

I think you have summed up western life for most of us. Despite the gloss of corporate life, we were all just numbers in the payroll book and all had, or have an expiry date. I came here as a member of the Australian diplomatic corp, 11 years ago, and never went back. It wasn't dining with ministers, golfing with the rich, and definitely not the nightlife of Bangkok that has keep me here. I had a regional role covering ASEAN and India, jetset life and despite having a 300 sq metre apartment off Sathorn Road, found I was living out of a suitcase and waiting in airports most of the time.

Compared to today, thats not living.

Isaanaussie

[kandahar]

Kandahar,

Thought I would drop a few pictures of the pig sty steel work in the post. Probably 6 months ago, newer stuff still in my old fashioned camera.

Preparing to lay the floor, trenchs for the footings and the whole slab was laid.

3 views of the near completed frame, front view with klong in the foreground, back end which shows the second floor a little better and a side view showing the proportions better.

The building as seen here is 12 metres wide and 27 metres long.

K, heaps of prefabricated truss elements.

IA

That's a lot of chopping, measuring and welding. Did you set up a jig for the trusses or do it the long way?

Impressive structure. I wish I could have been available to help you.

[IsaanAussie]

That's a lot of chopping, measuring and welding. Did you set up a jig for the trusses or do it the long way?

Impressive structure. I wish I could have been available to help you.

The structure is repetitive, standard lengths and angles. I cut a master part for each element and that was used to cut duplicates then just layout it all out on the ground, square it up and weld away. Tried using length jigs but not as simple for the helpers to use as something they could just lay on top of the next to be cut and clamp up the drop saw when the free ends matched and the master was snug again the blade. Two of us made 10 to 15 trusses a day.

Never turn down a helping hand, thanks for the offer.

IA

[Khonwan]

The answer to your question should be self-evident: size matters!

Most of us (foreigners AND Thais) can make farming work IF we have enough land. With 180 rai of cultivated land (plus 20 rai populated with houses, outbuildings, ponds and roads), I do have enough land to live off…comfortably.

I know many Thai farmers who likewise have sufficient land to enable them to live entirely on the proceeds of their farming (I’m not in Isaan). The problem in Thailand is that the vast majority of farms are just too small.

So how many rai are required for successful farming?

That obviously depends on many factors but I find it indicative that successive governments have upheld the law entitling Thai citizens over the age of 20 who are dependent on farming the right to possess up to 50 rai of Sor Por Kor land. Cohabiting couples therefore have the right to a maximum of 100 rai of such land between them. This title of land was given to poor landless farmers. The fact that a couple can – and often do – have up to 100 rai under this law for poor landless farmers suggests to me to me that 50-100 rai is considered by all recent governments as necessary to meet farmers’ requirements. Unfortunately, I believe that the majority of Thai farms are considerably smaller than 50 rai.

Rgds

Khonwan

[Lickey]

10 days or so ago, some goverment fella phoned the mrs, turns out he is from the present goverment and from south Thailand, [how he got her number, god olny knows?] but he is looking for nor sor sam or chanote land with 6/7 year old rubber trees, 100k per rai or barren land with the same paper for 70k, but will only buy in parcels of 2000 rai or over, so at 3% commision, mrs is very busy,

Im sure i dont have to explain what this would do to the local farmer,

[IsaanAussie]

Khonwan,

I lived in rural central Thailand until quite recently, not actively farming but observing the three to four irrigated rice crops a year. This is the difference for those of us in Isaan, one rain fed crop per year. So I suppose the traditional rice farmer in this area should have at least twice the areas you quote above.

Many of the younger folk are "home" for planting and harvest periods only each year, and back to deriving an income taxi driving or whatever in Bangkok. The older folk stay in the village and mind the grandchildren. Bearing that in mind, the income statistics I quoted at the start of this topic make sense.

Last year we grew 13 rai of Hom Mali. Yes we had issues with lodging and broken rice that effected the result but not seriously. Net income 54,000THB. One crop per year off 13 Rai obviously wont make me as comfortable as you Khonwan. Factored up to 130 Rai, or 540,000baht and easy chair moves nearer.

It challenges me to see the many thousands of rai that just sit fallow for more than 6 months here. Groundwater being the only source. Having just had a new bore drilled I discovered that the aquafer on my land is about 6 metres down, I had thought it wasn't so deep. Currently the water table is about 4 metres down. Last year at the end of the rains you hit water at 800mm.

The King's theory of 30% rice, 30%other crops, 30% water storage and 10% for people buildings and animals seems to me to be about right for Isaan

Isaanaussie

[IsaanAussie]

10 days or so ago, some goverment fella phoned the mrs, turns out he is from the present goverment and from south Thailand, [how he got her number, god olny knows?] but he is looking for nor sor sam or chanote land with 6/7 year old rubber trees, 100k per rai or barren land with the same paper for 70k, but will only buy in parcels of 2000 rai or over, so at 3% commision, mrs is very busy,

Im sure i dont have to explain what this would do to the local farmer,

Lickey,

Maybe I am just getting old and cynical, but a government guy from the other end of the country, cold calling to buy land? No I dont think so... I would be seriously cautious of this guy. Tell him nothing and take him nowhere. One to two Lan tip would get most Thais into agent mode. But would you ring a complete stranger and ask them to help you spend 140 to 200 Million Baht?

Mate, cant remember which Python film is was but when confronted with the enemy the command given was "FLEE"

Isaanaussie

[Khonwan]

Hi Isaanaussie

Nakhon Sawan is indeed well known for its ideal rice paddies providing around 3 crops per year but I live quite a bit from those areas – my village, and particularly my farm, is set on much higher ground by the mountains with no access to water other than rainfall (not even mountain streams in the dry season). That’s why I favour cassava.

Most farms in my area are probably around 20 rai – at this size, farmers here suffer too, with many having to supplement their income with their labour in Bkk, etc or with financial support from their kids working there.

The reason, of course, that all those part-time farmers seek employment off-season in Bangkok is because their farms are too small. Those with larger farms stay on their farms since they can earn sufficient income and since larger farms also, of course, consume more time in their management. Even Isaan has its large successful farms.

Rgds

Khonwan

[IsaanAussie]

[Khonwan,

Agree with your comments entirely. Here in Sisaket the situation is largely the same. There some, a very few, traditional families here that have small holdings and enjoy a simple hunter/gather diet who sell enough of their rice to cover what small bills they incur. These simple folk reside in the village full time, grow a few vegetables in the off season, tend a few cows in exchange for everyother offspring, and appear to do little else. I would be jealous but I am corrupted enough by material things to say that I would not like to live that way.

As you point out there also the very large property owners at the other end of the spectrum who in almost fuedal fashion, are well off.

I am one of the wannabes somewhere in the middle enjoying the mirade of daily challenges.

My take on it is the answer lies in having many different interests, a lot of little bits that contribute to the pocket. Are my early efforts profitable? No, but some are now slightly ahead of breakeven and the others arent adding so many negative numbers to the available bank balance.

Good luck to you and the cassava.

Isaanaussie

[IsaanAussie]

As this topic slides down the page, I thought it appropriate to put it to bed by thanking those who appreciated my woodworking etc, as well as those who contributed to the topic discussion. For those that flattered me by suggesting I become some sort of philantrapist teacher, I am afraid my pockets aren't deep enough, nor are my ideals set that high. Happy to share any knowledge I have with anyone who asks when I have the time.

As to the topic itself, I do see my venture as having a chance of succeeding here in Isaan, albeit on my economically jeopardised budget. One thing has not changed, it will take hard work. The key is to align directly with the local economy, anything else that works is a plus. Lots of contributions of a little bit.

Isaanaussie

[Pash]

Maybe I am just getting old and cynical, but a government guy from the other end of the country, cold calling to buy land? No I dont think so... I would be seriously cautious of this guy. Tell him nothing and take him nowhere. One to two Lan tip would get most Thais into agent mode. But would you ring a complete stranger and ask them to help you spend 140 to 200 Million Baht?

Mate, cant remember which Python film is was but when confronted with the enemy the command given was "FLEE"

Isaanaussie

Monty Python & the Holy Grail

Runaway, runaway

It's only a rabitt.

But it has big sharp teeth & claws

[IsaanAussie]

Monty Python & the Holy Grail

Runaway, runaway

It's only a rabitt.

But it has big sharp teeth & claws

Pash,

Thanks for the detail and helping me realise that time dulls the memory. I may be a lapsed fan, but still a lifelong one. Again my thanks for refocusing me.

[ETC]

I understand the pace thing when you put it in that perspective. I am retired also but I work pretty hard most days. And yet, Thailand does offer a life free of most of the hassles of my home country. Hard work or not, it is a much more relaxed lifestyle. Your distinction isn't trivial.

I build furniture as well. But I use steel and Smartwood. Like you, I can't retire and just stop and sit around the house and I can't live in the bars.

Good luck with your future.

I think compared to a fast city life, farming is a slower paced life, as I have experienced both in my 67 years on this planet. Farm life is unquestionably a hard working life, but the personal, community and family rewards have no equal in my books. When given a choice, I will always choose farming or ranching and the old Ford truck. Granted; when you break it down into dollars and cents, farming may not be the smartest choice, but it will always be the right choice for me.

Edited August 27, 2010 by ETC

[IsaanAussie]

I understand the pace thing when you put it in that perspective. I am retired also but I work pretty hard most days. And yet, Thailand does offer a life free of most of the hassles of my home country. Hard work or not, it is a much more relaxed lifestyle. Your distinction isn't trivial.

I build furniture as well. But I use steel and Smartwood. Like you, I can't retire and just stop and sit around the house and I can't live in the bars.

Good luck with your future.

I think compared to a fast city life, farming is a slower paced life, as I have experienced both in my 67 years on this planet. Farm life is unquestionably a hard working life, but the personal, community and family rewards have no equal in my books. When given a choice, I will always choose farming or ranching and the old Ford truck. Granted; when you break it down into dollars and cents, farming may not be the smartest choice, but it will always be the right choice for me.

Extremely well said to both gentlemen.

I have lived most of my life in the fast lane with senior positions. Whilst it wasnt always 7 days a week as now with farming, the hours were just as long and the mental exhaustion more telling than being physically tired at the end of each day. I havent been as fit and alive for many years.

Now like ETC, I would love to improve the returns but I suppose that will improve as things settle down into more productive phase. I just need to get to an integrated income as well as farm. Its getting closer.

Isaanaussie

[ETC]

I understand the pace thing when you put it in that perspective. I am retired also but I work pretty hard most days. And yet, Thailand does offer a life free of most of the hassles of my home country. Hard work or not, it is a much more relaxed lifestyle. Your distinction isn't trivial.

I build furniture as well. But I use steel and Smartwood. Like you, I can't retire and just stop and sit around the house and I can't live in the bars.

Good luck with your future.

I think compared to a fast city life, farming is a slower paced life, as I have experienced both in my 67 years on this planet. Farm life is unquestionably a hard working life, but the personal, community and family rewards have no equal in my books. When given a choice, I will always choose farming or ranching and the old Ford truck. Granted; when you break it down into dollars and cents, farming may not be the smartest choice, but it will always be the right choice for me.

Extremely well said to both gentlemen.

I have lived most of my life in the fast lane with senior positions. Whilst it wasnt always 7 days a week as now with farming, the hours were just as long and the mental exhaustion more telling than being physically tired at the end of each day. I havent been as fit and alive for many years.

Now like ETC, I would love to improve the returns but I suppose that will improve as things settle down into more productive phase. I just need to get to an integrated income as well as farm. Its getting closer.

Isaanaussie

Well said yourself IA. Good farmers, that love the land and the life, become good inovators that are always trying new things to improve their and their families lives. Working the land will always be my base, and everything else will just be gravy on the potatoes I grew myself, or the dressing on the vegetables I grew myself. Like the rooster, when I lay my head down at night, surrounded by my family and the life I love, what can be better?

ETC (Jim)