Do You See Tefl As A Career

[BOOKEMDANO]

Hi,

Like many of you who have decided to give teaching a chance and have enjoyed it enough to see it as a source of income to fund their futures' in Thailand, I often wonder on the points of view some of you take when considering this line of work, 10, or even 20 years down the line?

Other websites associated with teaching in Thailand often scoff at the mere mention of a career and TEFL being associated with each other, believing that the two are very different and one cannot secure any real future based on teaching English.

Either way, in some respects, I have to agree with those detractors in the sense that teaching in Thailand is not as 'secure' as teaching positions elsewhere in the West might be.

I came here myself when I was in my mid-twenties and taught in a number of schools in BKK but lacked any real 'teaching qualifications' to able me the better paying jobs. I have since told myself that, as a back up plan, teaching will always be there as an option if other plans fail to materialise.

So, for those of you who are teaching and in your 30s, 40s or even 50s how do you view your future in TEFL? Is it a case where after say, 8 years teaching at a school, you have secured a comfortable and established position within the school or are you still an ordinary teacher?

CAN teaching English in Thailand get you a somewhat elevated position within your school this making it a career of sorts?

[maewang99]

my experience, 2 years at a Thai university and 3 years high school, teaching conversational English..

there's a trend where I have worked. it is to get foreign teachers, including 'farlang' of course, at lower salaries because there are more and more folks who need the easy one year visa. those are not teachers. if that's ok with you, fine. Great in fact!

but Thai schools are not poor. they are all businesses under the covers as if government teachers were not already very well paid, especially the government backed benefitts.

I worked very hard to really try to be a good teacher, not easy at all given how many students and classes we are given... and the above facts ate away at me everyday.

so the answer is.... it is what it is: an easy one year visa. you can make it more than that, but does the effort make sense? I thought not. So I quit.

Edited June 8, 2010 by maewang99

[ducksonspeed]

I have been teaching for 7 years. In that time i also completed an education degree. 3 years of 6 months teaching here and 6 months studying in Australia my home country.

The degree was the worst mistake I ever made. If you read the bangkok post education section on the web you will see that most Thai teachers cannot pass a test that the students they are teaching had to take. The education system here is not about educating but promotion and reward.

If you are capable of keeping you head down and teaching while being told you need to lower your teaching standard due to your bosses lack of understanding of the English language and the culture behind it then by all means teach. The kids are great.

The kids make it all worth while. I now have the problem that I know i am setting kids up to fail. The education system is just not interested in teaching students to succeed in life. It is about achieving the correct income and piece of paper so you can enter a university to do exactly the same thing. Not to learn but obtain the correct piece of paper to get the right job.

Sorry I was probably not much help but when I am being lectured by a Thai on the culture of the English language or me that is the height of all arrogance and country deserves everything it gets.

I have not left Thailand because the wife, dogs and the house are here now. I am looking for a future in another industry if anyone has any ideas.

[Scott]

Let's try to make sure we don't make this an anti-teaching thread, however, criticism and suggestions are appropriate. As far as the 'easy' one-year visa, I must disagree. With a few exceptions, teaching is far from easy. Not only can it be physically demanding--standing for hours in hot classrooms with unruly children, but it can, as the above poster has mentioned be quite frustrating.

You really need a positive attitude and a love for the work to keep up appearances.

As for the above post, you need to decide what you want and expect. Education is the groundwork of the culture and it is where and how most people learn to be come a 'productive' member of their society. So is it teaching you don't like or the Thai culture? If it is the 2nd, then you will likely find that many jobs are culturally not much more than an extension of the education system. Of course, there are jobs with foreign firms, but they may be hard to find.

Best of luck in whatever decision you make.

[BOOKEMDANO]

I have been teaching for 7 years. In that time i also completed an education degree. 3 years of 6 months teaching here and 6 months studying in Australia my home country.

The degree was the worst mistake I ever made. If you read the bangkok post education section on the web you will see that most Thai teachers cannot pass a test that the students they are teaching had to take. The education system here is not about educating but promotion and reward.

If you are capable of keeping you head down and teaching while being told you need to lower your teaching standard due to your bosses lack of understanding of the English language and the culture behind it then by all means teach. The kids are great.

I have not left Thailand because the wife, dogs and the house are here now. I am looking for a future in another industry if anyone has any ideas.

As someone with your credentials 'and' experience is there any reason why you are not elevated to a higher position with your respected school?

This is really what i'm trying to get at! The point is, let's assume this is now 10 years into the future and your still in Thailand teaching, is there chance for promotion given your wealth of experience and credentials, or, do the schools favour new fresh faces TEFL kids who they can get away with paying as little as possible?

I have seen on some job sites when advertising their school that any replies should be sent to a 'foreign' member of staff i.e. a farang teacher. So they seem to have got their feer under the table to a certain degree.

If you have the right qualifications could you happily progress up the ladder and teach here for many years to come AND have a salary to match?

[Scott]

A lot of schools will have a foreign head of English, but at some schools the position does not command an increase in salary--at least not much of one. Some schools will keep your pay and there may be a few other benefits, but they justify this because they are decreasing the teaching load.

I know of very few farangs in administrative positions who feel they are utilized appropriately. This doesn't mean they don't enjoy their work, but it means that the decisions are made by the Thai owner/Administrator and most simply get to the dirty work of explaining it to the staff.

This is a country with a lot of 'nong' and 'pee' and not much equality.

[BOOKEMDANO]

A lot of schools will have a foreign head of English, but at some schools the position does not command an increase in salary--at least not much of one. Some schools will keep your pay and there may be a few other benefits, but they justify this because they are decreasing the teaching load.

I know of very few farangs in administrative positions who feel they are utilized appropriately. This doesn't mean they don't enjoy their work, but it means that the decisions are made by the Thai owner/Administrator and most simply get to the dirty work of explaining it to the staff.

This is a country with a lot of 'nong' and 'pee' and not much equality.

Scott,

So what your saying is, TEFL does not generally reward years of experience with pay rises or nice little admin jobs, thus leaving many teachers on a parallel career path leading nowhere in terms of promotion?

I am pondering the thought of slaving away in a Thai classroom for the next 30 years.

Actually, having just said that, isn't that what the majority of the working class do anyway, albeit, in various other sectors of employment?

[elkangorito]

I had an interesting conversation today with one of my work colleagues (Thai) but before I proceed, I consider my current job as a career since I have little hope of returning to my previous profession in Australia (Facilities Management...I'm too old...over 40 & single). I do not currently hold any form of teaching qualification but I have been teaching for about 4 years at a college.

I don't get paid a fortune & nor do I expect so. I enjoy my job greatly, although it can be boring at times (I'm used to much bigger challenges).

My colleague & I talked about 'things' today. The main question was, "Why are many Thai students pathetic at English although they have supposedly been learning this language for a large part of their schooling life."

My answer was (briefly);

1] Many people don't want to learn a foreign language. This should be a choice & not an order, although learning English should start at Kindergarten.

2] Class sizes (& therefore time management) are not conducive to efficient learning given the time in which to cover a subject/topic.

3] Addressing the deficiencies in so called 'advanced' students (the ones who have left Secondary Education & are now in Tertiary Education), which usually means 'going back to basics'. For example, building on vocabulary: Nouns, Verbs & Adjectives. Not strictly grammar but the necessary basic grammar.

Disregarding one's qualifications, this is challenging & will certainly sort the 'men from the boys', which is what the Thai educational system really needs to understand & appreciate.

This has been said many times before: If Thailand is serious about education, it will only employ appropriately qualified teachers (degree in education) & will pay them commensurately.

Notwithstanding this, there are people who are great teachers but do not hold a qualification. These are the people that Thailand needs to nurture. These people, if serious, could provide appropriate education for the poorer institutions at a somewhat cheaper cost than qualified teachers.

Either way I look at it, teaching can easily be a career in Thailand...qualified or not. My place of work seems to value/regard me highly. I don't believe that it's only to do with my 'white face'...it's to do with my attitude & ability. If you wish to teach & are serious about it, there is nothing stopping you from doing so in Thailand disregarding qualifications.

I don't want to be rich...I just want to be happy. For me, this means a somewhat challenging job & good people with whom to work. I have these things at my place of work.

If dollars are your main concern, get a 'real' teaching qualification & pursue the money trail. In this case, job satisfaction is possibly more to do with income than anything else.

Edited June 8, 2010 by elkangorito

[BOOKEMDANO]

Either way I look at it, teaching can easily be a career in Thailand...qualified or not. My place of work seems to value/regard me highly. I don't believe that it's only to do with my 'white face'...it's to do with my attitude & ability. If you wish to teach & are serious about it, there is nothing stopping you from doing so in Thailand disregarding qualifications.

I don't want to be rich...I just want to be happy. For me, this means a somewhat challenging job & good people with whom to work. I have these things at my place of work.

Notwithstanding this, there are people who are great teachers but do not hold a qualification. These are the people that Thailand needs to nurture. These people, if serious, could provide appropriate

If dollars are your main concern, get a 'real' teaching qualification & pursue the money trail. In this case, job satisfaction is possibly more to do with income than anything else.

Nice post,

My definition of a 'career' is that of a lifelong job which provides me with security. Some posts refer to ageism as a major factor when looking for work in this industry; this is a major concern, one which I wanted to know what the older generations were experiencing 'now' as many 'younger' teachers have this prejudice yet to come.

A salary which reflects the hard work gaining the necessary qualifications and hours spent teaching the next generation of kids is a fair question, and one which I feel is not justified in many cases. According to Scott, this doesn't improve much as time goes by so I guess that answers my previous question.

Money is not my driving force - nor do I think it's many who live in Thailand - it's a lifestyle choice for most i'm sure; but as you are single, thoughts may or may not turn to securing a future for a potential family. If, or when, this does happen I would need the comfort of that 'career' prospect firmly established by then.

I simply needed to know, from those in the know, how you viewed the prospect of teaching here in years to come as a relatively safe working environment or one which you would view as a bleak one?

I am trying to organise additional assurances now, at 32 years of age, so that when I hit middle age teaching is not the only viable source of income as I would love to make Thailand a safe and secure home for many years to come.

[Scott]

All schools aren't the same with regard to rewarding employees, but much of this has to do with the luck of the draw.

[Phatcharanan]

"Why are many Thai students pathetic at English although they have supposedly been learning this language for a large part of their schooling life."

My answer was (briefly);

1] Many people don't want to learn a foreign language. This should be a choice & not an order, although learning English should start at Kindergarten.

2] Class sizes (& therefore time management) are not conducive to efficient learning given the time in which to cover a subject/topic.

3] Addressing the deficiencies in so called 'advanced' students (the ones who have left Secondary Education & are now in Tertiary Education), which usually means 'going back to basics'. For example, building on vocabulary: Nouns, Verbs & Adjectives. Not strictly grammar but the necessary basic grammar.

Interesting answers. I would actually put at the top of the list the fact they have been poorly taught by teachers not really qualified or experienced enough to do the job.

Is TEFL itself a career? For some it is. Those who have the MA's in TESOL or Applied Linguistics.

For myself, I was one of those 4 week wonders who thought my TESOL certificate made me Gods gift to teaching. How wrong I was. What it did do though was make me realise how much I enjoyed teaching. So much so that after 3 years of 'Tefling' I went back to the UK and did my formal teacher training in Primary.

After my PGCE and 1 year NQT I left for China to join one of the 'true' UK curriculum schools. This was 5 years ago.

Fortune and favour led me to Nigeria as a Deputy Headteacher and finally promotion to Headteacher. UK curriculum school.

In August I am returning to Thailand as Deputy Head of Primary at one of Bangkok's finest. (I have a Thai family from previous Tefling career)

I don't say this to sound arrogant but simply to say that whilst I never saw TEFL as a long-term career goal, it certainly paved the way for my current career now.

I am 52. Never too late I guess.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Phatcharanan

[Loaded]

This has been said many times before: If Thailand is serious about education, it will only employ appropriately qualified teachers (degree in education) & will pay them commensurately.

Nearly all Thai teachers have a B.Ed. but in general they are ineffective. Recent government teacher-knowledge tests confirmed this. I've met farang B.Ed.s and in general although they understand theoretical educational knowledge well, they have few practical skills appropriate for the Thai classroom.

IMO Thais are only serious about being relaxed and having fun and that's one of the reasons why so many foreigners enjoy living here.

[BOOKEMDANO]

"Why are many Thai students pathetic at English although they have supposedly been learning this language for a large part of their schooling life."

My answer was (briefly);

1] Many people don't want to learn a foreign language. This should be a choice & not an order, although learning English should start at Kindergarten.

2] Class sizes (& therefore time management) are not conducive to efficient learning given the time in which to cover a subject/topic.

3] Addressing the deficiencies in so called 'advanced' students (the ones who have left Secondary Education & are now in Tertiary Education), which usually means 'going back to basics'. For example, building on vocabulary: Nouns, Verbs & Adjectives. Not strictly grammar but the necessary basic grammar.

Interesting answers. I would actually put at the top of the list the fact they have been poorly taught by teachers not really qualified or experienced enough to do the job.

Is TEFL itself a career? For some it is. Those who have the MA's in TESOL or Applied Linguistics.

For myself, I was one of those 4 week wonders who thought my TESOL certificate made me Gods gift to teaching. How wrong I was. What it did do though was make me realise how much I enjoyed teaching. So much so that after 3 years of 'Tefling' I went back to the UK and did my formal teacher training in Primary.

After my PGCE and 1 year NQT I left for China to join one of the 'true' UK curriculum schools. This was 5 years ago.

Fortune and favour led me to Nigeria as a Deputy Headteacher and finally promotion to Headteacher. UK curriculum school.

In August I am returning to Thailand as Deputy Head of Primary at one of Bangkok's finest. (I have a Thai family from previous Tefling career)

I don't say this to sound arrogant but simply to say that whilst I never saw TEFL as a long-term career goal, it certainly paved the way for my current career now.

I am 52. Never too late I guess.

Fantastic read,

That is where I want to be in years to come..

This is my definition of a career and I think your post might prove influential to many - it has for me. I think where you hace succeeded, and others simply don't, is the willingness to return back to the UK and gain further qualifications and then go on to gain international work experience abroad in both China and Africa. So many teachers in Thailand have committed themselves to a life here that they either refuse to leave or rule out going back to the West - I know several people like this.

From your post it proves that a career 'can' be made out of TEFL - but only with the right qualifications - and through a sense of direction anf fortune you have found a path, I would say, that many would wish to be in themselves.

I am interested what qualifications you had when you first came to Thailand and what you steadily gained through the years to afford you this position?

I always considered working for the British council a 'nice little number'. Pension, two year contracts, lots of travel, fair rumuneration, and good working conditions. Would you agree?

Also, to gain employment in China's international tier, what qualifications would somebody need to work over there in order to build upon their CV?

I would truely love to be in your position when I reach 50 rather than slaving away in some government school with zero rewards and no chance of any (if little) annual pay increases.

[mizzi39]

I work at a govt school (EP) which is pretty cushy by govt. standards. Not in urban Bangkok, but out in the sticks. I only teach 14 contact hours a week and the foreign teachers are not obligated to stay if we do not have classes, so a lot of "early outs".

No morning or after school "extras". such as morning assembly etc. The govt Thai teachers with their govt. benefits take care of that.

2,000 baht per month raise per new (12 month) contract, so your pay the following year is predictable. No more and no less. Reimbursement for visa and WP fees,10 personal, and 10 sick days per contract year, plus paid holidays, so when school is not in session your monthly pay remains the same.

This is my third year at the same school, and I must say that I honestly like my job. The students are respectful and for the most part well behaved.

My contract only runs year to year. I am not a govt. employee with govt.perks,nor would I qualify since i am not Thai, so "career" really would be an over ambitious term to sum up my job. I like to think of it as a means to an end.

Edited June 9, 2010 by mizzi39

[Phatcharanan]

This is my definition of a career and I think your post might prove influential to many - it has for me. I think where you hace succeeded, and others simply don't, is the willingness to return back to the UK and gain further qualifications and then go on to gain international work experience abroad in both China and Africa. So many teachers in Thailand have committed themselves to a life here that they either refuse to leave or rule out going back to the West - I know several people like this.

From your post it proves that a career 'can' be made out of TEFL - but only with the right qualifications - and through a sense of direction anf fortune you have found a path, I would say, that many would wish to be in themselves.

I am interested what qualifications you had when you first came to Thailand and what you steadily gained through the years to afford you this position?

I always considered working for the British council a 'nice little number'. Pension, two year contracts, lots of travel, fair rumuneration, and good working conditions. Would you agree?

Also, to gain employment in China's international tier, what qualifications would somebody need to work over there in order to build upon their CV?

I would truely love to be in your position when I reach 50 rather than slaving away in some government school with zero rewards and no chance of any (if little) annual pay increases.

Thanks.

I was lucky. Had a very supportive Thai wife. Roughed it in the UK in a small crappy apartment and my wife badly missed her family. We got through it though.

I arrived in Thailand with a BA Eng Lit and no teaching experience at all. Took a TESOL at Chichester College in Bangkok. My previous career was HR Manager for B&Q.

Enjoyed teaching a lot. Read up on all the EFL/ESL strategies etc but deep down always realised that with my current quals I was never going to make good enough money or be truly satisfied with myself.

Deciding to return to the UK and take up an offer of the PGCE Primary was the hardest decision ever. I knew we were going to struggle financially even with the bursary. Worried sick about how my wife would cope but she said (sort of) 'What the hel_l, lets go'. We did.

Whilst the PGCE in itself gets you the QTS it's not enough for a lot of the better Internationals. Hence why we stuck out another year to do my 3 term NQT. Now THAT was the smart move as it turned out. The experience was invaluable.

Anyway, it was enough to secure me a position with Rego in China (Dutch owned UK curriculum schools) The schools were very keen on CPD and I learnt so much from this. Eventually became a Key Stage 2 Co-ordinator and involved myself in lots of extra-curricular activities, PTA etc. Anything to start padding out my CV.

Eventually took a position as Deputy Head in Nigeria (no one wants to go there). Again, learnt a lot by all the mistakes I made. Sink or swim basically. Finally got it right and eventual promotion. I was lucky in that I had good support from KS co-ordinators and teachers.

After 2 years started applying for schools in Thailand (TES website) and finally struck lucky. Back in Bangkok by August, start work September. Wife has been offered work in the Admin on the strength of her English skills, picked up from the 2 years in England. She speaks with a Northern accent, kid you not.

[BlackArtemis]

Yes I do, but I don't see it as a viable future unless you can get a job at an international school or do a hel_l of a lot of side tutoring.

I did the latter for a good portion of my time and I was making 80K/month with my salary and my wife (she was making about 40k) This was 1) not enough for us 2) took up all of our free time.

We are both getting a second degree, I will return to Thailand in the future with a BSED Biology and my wife a MSED Early Childhood Education. THe sad part is that she still will make less than a alcoholic backpacker looking to stay a year since Thai's hate their own it seems...

Many international schools offer 80kish + free or discounted tution for children. IF this does not work out, I have planned an MS in environmental sciences and will use contacts to find a job that way. We will be able to work in the US for a few years as teachers and save up enough to pay for a large chunk of a mortgage.

All in all, my ramble means to say that if you put in the blood sweat and tears, TEFL can be a career in Thailand, but always have a second option.

[BOOKEMDANO]

Yes I do, but I don't see it as a viable future unless you can get a job at an international school or do a hel_l of a lot of side tutoring.

I did the latter for a good portion of my time and I was making 80K/month with my salary and my wife (she was making about 40k) This was 1) not enough for us 2) took up all of our free time.

... my wife a MSED Early Childhood Education. THe sad part is that she still will make less than a alcoholic backpacker looking to stay a year since Thai's hate their own it seems...

All in all, my ramble means to say that if you put in the blood sweat and tears, TEFL can be a career in Thailand, but always have a second option.

Going by your post it seem's that the combined salaries of , 80k + 40k respectively, and your statement about this "not being enough" kind of grates of me to be honest.

You don't mention kids, I take it you were renting, and you do not mention any debts so to speak. Going on how I have interpreted this post, how can 120k 'not' be enough; reads like your just showing off to everybody how much you were earning, as I see this as a very good wage.

As for your wife earning a 'mere' 40k a month - but somehow never as much as an alcoholic tourist - are you for real?

My girlfriend is university educated, yet, only earns 7k at her current job. I also know a number of other blokes who's girlfriends are on a comparable salary of around 8k - 10k: These girls' have MD's.

Maybe you were born into a wealthy family and have come to demand high expectations and the finer things in life; however, from were I am standing, 120k per month is a very comfortable salary to be earning in Thailand for you and yoru wife.

Good luck with your studies. I look forward to your next gripe.

[Scott]

The above post is where I am going to draw the line and what is permissible and what isn't.

If you have a question, then ask it. It you wish to pass judgment on other posters life-style, I would suggest great caution.

Some people have borrowed a great deal of money to attend university (and aren't working).

Some people have a home in another country and a mortgage.

Some people have or plan to have a retirement account.

etc. etc. etc.

[BlackArtemis]

Scott: it's fine I am not offended by his post and he is free to make his own thoughts known.

BookemDano: Sorry, I was making 40 and my wife was making 40 for a total of 80k

We want kids, though we are unsure if we are physically capable of having our own. But if not we WILL adopt.

80k/month is a fantastic salary to live on in Chiang Mai if you don't care about International school tuition, personal savings, and retirement.

First off, we made that money by teaching at a Gov't school 25k for me and 12k for my wife, the rest was tutoring. During the last 6 months we stayed in Thailand my wife switched to tutoring full time.

Making 80k is nice, but it's not so much fun working all day and then tutoring from 4 to 6 and having to wait til almost 7 sometimes for parents to pick up students THEN you can go out and eat, but you still ahve your regular workload to check etc. Plus 4-5hrs on Saturday and my wife taught on Sunday as well.

That is not how I want to spend the rest of my days in Thailand.

I am 28 and my wife is 31, we want to be back in Thailand for good in about 6-7 years. This means we will not have all the retirement benefits many expats currently enjoy, no SS, 401k, etc. What we retire on will be what we earn. I want to put away 20-35k Baht a month. That's about 7.2m Baht in 20 years, that seems like a huge amount but it's really not.

Now a decent mortgage is going to be around 20K and car note around 10k, if I were to pay for my future children's enrollment (not working at an international school) it would come out to an avg of 12-15 per month per child.

So right now I am up to around 75k/month and I have yet to even add utilities, cellphones, internet, Health insurance, life insurance, hel_l house and car insurance, FOOD, daily expenses, money for spending, money for vacation, money to spend on the kids etc etc.

As for the comment about my wife, she made 40k for working her ass off, but I can guarantee you that if she went back to Thailand with an MSED and tried to get a job at a private kindergarten, the application will say "native speakers only" and she won't get the 30k or so a month, but they will have no problem hiring a blond haired blue eyed fresh out of uni girl with an unrelated degree and no experience with children, because Thailand hates on their own.

And yes, I was blessed to grow up in an affluent family and I want to provide the same style of living for my own children. I may inherit money or maybe with today's insane medical costs and my father's conditions it might be spent way before that. Either way I was taught to push on and do for yourself cause no one in the world is going to do it for you. SO I have planned out a roadmap to a life I want as if I have nothing to my name.

I would also like to state that I am not looking down on people who are living on 30k. People can be happy no matter what they make, I simply want to make life easier for my family and I, not roll around in a 3 series or BMW and have them parked in a huge McMansion in Land and House... I just want a life where my children won't have to worry about having to go without, will have an education on par with their western counterparts, maybe even have college paid for, all the meanwhile I don't want to be in debt or worried sick about how I am going to pay for those things.

And if I can't make the $ needed by teaching, I will tailor my further education so that I do.

I'm sorry if you feel that I am griping, but I have only stated what I think is needed to keep up a certain lifestyle. I would be curious to see what others pay if they have a mortgage, car notes, have to plan on retirement SOLELY on what they make in Thailand, international school tuition, and the daily/monthly finances of a family of 3-4. Because when I was making 23k/month as a single guy in a 1 room apartment, I was no where near it, at 80k Baht I was a lot closer, but not quite there.

[BOOKEMDANO]

Scott: it's fine I am not offended by his post and he is free to make his own thoughts known.

BookemDano: Sorry, I was making 40 and my wife was making 40 for a total of 80k

And if I can't make the $ needed by teaching, I will tailor my further education so that I do.

I'm sorry if you feel that I am griping, but I have only stated what I think is needed to keep up a certain lifestyle. I would be curious to see what others pay if they have a mortgage, car notes, have to plan on retirement SOLELY on what they make in Thailand, international school tuition, and the daily/monthly finances of a family of 3-4. Because when I was making 23k/month as a single guy in a 1 room apartment, I was no where near it, at 80k Baht I was a lot closer, but not quite there.

No hard feelings BlackArtemis, I didn't mean anything malicious by that last post as Scott might have suggested.

I was sincere in the fact that I wished you well for your studies and I will take this opportunity to make a mends.

Like you, I am studying too, an English degree (had an exam today infact), in the hope to secure a better teaching position than most of the 30k government gigs offer. I already have a property (paid for) and i'm currently saving 'now' for the down payment on a new car. I am doing all this now at the age of 32 so I can live a comfortable lifestyle in Thailand. Teaching will not be the only income as I am planning other routes to secure future investments which should kick in when i'm around 40 - 45 years of age.

I do consider, like yourself, how a country like Thailand can provide security for myself and any potential family I might have in the future. It is very high up the list infact and the primary reason why I started this thread. All I can say is, I love Thailand, I love where I am, what i'm doing, and the plans i'm making now towards the future. I don't need to live an extravagant lifestyle, just a roof over my head and peace of mind, but I am, after all, from a western society that affords it's citizens' opportunities and free health care and something which many negelct to mention - within close proximity to their family. So sometimes it's a little hard to accept that Thailand isn't quite so forthcoming in these depts which makes life that much harder.

I do wish you the best of luck with your studies. When you return in 5 years time we can go out for a few and both have a good old grip together at the state of our respected schools, which - let's be honest now Scott - a pervasive yet successful feature of many of the posts on this website.

[troehr]

Yes I do, but I don't see it as a viable future unless you can get a job at an international school or do a hel_l of a lot of side tutoring.

I did the latter for a good portion of my time and I was making 80K/month with my salary and my wife (she was making about 40k) This was 1) not enough for us 2) took up all of our free time.

... my wife a MSED Early Childhood Education. THe sad part is that she still will make less than a alcoholic backpacker looking to stay a year since Thai's hate their own it seems...

All in all, my ramble means to say that if you put in the blood sweat and tears, TEFL can be a career in Thailand, but always have a second option.

Going by your post it seem's that the combined salaries of , 80k + 40k respectively, and your statement about this "not being enough" kind of grates of me to be honest.

You don't mention kids, I take it you were renting, and you do not mention any debts so to speak. Going on how I have interpreted this post, how can 120k 'not' be enough; reads like your just showing off to everybody how much you were earning, as I see this as a very good wage.

As for your wife earning a 'mere' 40k a month - but somehow never as much as an alcoholic tourist - are you for real?

My girlfriend is university educated, yet, only earns 7k at her current job. I also know a number of other blokes who's girlfriends are on a comparable salary of around 8k - 10k: These girls' have MD's.

Maybe you were born into a wealthy family and have come to demand high expectations and the finer things in life; however, from were I am standing, 120k per month is a very comfortable salary to be earning in Thailand for you and yoru wife.

Good luck with your studies. I look forward to your next gripe.

You might want to reread his post and then do your math again. He was living on an 80k salary. She made forty of it. As for the forty being realistic, I had a girlfriend here in Issan making 35k a month with just a BA. I know plenty of other Thai's making more. There are lot's of people who would have trouble living high on 80k. All you need to do is drink, smoke, eat foreign food and throw in entertainment.

I make 40k and save at least 10k every month. It can be done. It mostly depends on how hard you are willing to work. Unfortunately many do not treat teaching here as a career. they treat it as something that let's them stay in Thailand.

T

[BlackArtemis]

Not a problem, I never felt any animosity in your post :cheers: