'expert' Contract

[costas]

Hi all,

I would be very interested to hear from anyone who has first hand (or ear) experience or knowledge regarding the procedures involved for one to be hired by a Uni or Rajabhat as an expert.

I do not talk about teaching English, but rather a very specialised field.

Firstly, do you know the requirements (if any) the Uni has to meet for such a position to be created/established?

Secondly, do you know the requirements the person would have to meet in order to get such a position?

Thirdly, would such a position get me out of the consecutive one year contracts and put me in a more 'permanent' status?

And lastly, how would the salary of such a position compare with the English teacher's one (currently at about 25000)?

Any information - answering those questions or more general- would be very much appreciated.

be well

costas

[chownah]

Its really difficult for anyone to comment on your post unless you give a more specific example of the 'specialised field' you have in mind.

For example...if your specialty was designing rocket motor vibration isolators then there probably would be no need for you anywhere in Thailand since there is no rocket building going on in Thailand.

How could anyone possibly tell you how much you might get paid if you don't give us at least a hint of what it is you intend to do?

In short...your post is a mystery.

[costas]

Its really difficult for anyone to comment on your post unless  you give a more specific example of the 'specialised field' you have in mind.

For example...if your specialty was designing rocket motor vibration isolators then there probably would be no need for you anywhere in Thailand since there is no rocket building going on in Thailand.

How could anyone possibly tell you how much you might get paid if you don't give us at least a hint of what it is you intend to do?

In short...your post is a mystery.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hi chownah,

apologies,

my questions were not 'field specific' but if you think it makes a difference:

i am a food scientist with three years postdoctoral experience working for the british goverment. There is a Food Science department in almost every Uni in Thailand, so i am glad i moved on from those isolators

I intend to do research, on a basic level at first and then hopefully get it up to a higher standard, plus establishing a postgraduate program (MSc at first and possibly PhD later).

First i am interested on how those positions are created.

Then I am wondering how the positions of expert are paid,

is it on a pre-established scale ,

is it negotiable and totally open,

that sort of question.

Since i have now idea i did not know that the field of expertise would be crucial, but if you say so..

Maybe now that you know the field you can offer some answers or do i have to show my CV?

cheers

costas

[paully]

hi chownah,

apologies,

my questions were not 'field specific' but if you think it makes a difference:

i am a food scientist with three years postdoctoral experience working for the british goverment. There is a Food Science department in almost every Uni in Thailand, so i am glad i moved on from those isolators 

I intend to do research, on a basic level at first and then hopefully get it up to a higher standard, plus establishing a postgraduate program (MSc at first and possibly PhD later).

First i am interested on how those positions are created.

Then I am wondering how the positions of expert are  paid,

is it on a pre-established scale ,

is it negotiable and totally open,

that sort of question.

Since i have now idea i did not know that the field of expertise would be crucial, but if you say so..

Maybe now that you know the field you can offer some answers or do i have to show my CV?

cheers

costas

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A University or Rajabhat department head here could offer you a job as a professor in food science, they would need to get authorisation from the relevant Dean to employ you. Depending on the programmes taught, etc you could get paid more than the foreign language ajarns (you would be on a different scale) and possibly on a longer contract than one year.

But, the big problem you face is how are you going to perform as an expert in an ordinary Thai Food Science Department? Can you teach, or advise or research in Thai? If not, how will the students/academic staff understand you? There are a few 'international' (ie: English-language) programmes here at universities in the area of hospitality, hotel management etc which you may be able to approach, but they tend to be more on the management, not food science side. But, it's worth a try if you can talk yourself into a position. These international programmes pay much better than 25,000 baht a month, maybe 1,000-2,000 baht an hour if you can get on them.

Edited June 22, 2005 by paully

[costas]

A University or Rajabhat department head here could offer you a job as a professor in food science, they would need to get authorisation from the relevant Dean to employ you.  Depending on the programmes taught, etc you could get paid more than the foreign language ajarns (you would be on a different scale) and possibly on a longer contract than one year. 

But, the big problem you face is how are you going to perform as an expert in an ordinary Thai Food Science Department?  Can you teach, or advise or research in Thai?  If not, how will the students/academic staff understand you?  There are a few 'international' (ie: English-language) programmes here at universities in the area of hospitality, hotel management etc which you may be able to approach, but they tend to be more on the management, not food science side.  But, it's worth a try if you can talk yourself into a position.  These international programmes pay much better than 25,000 baht a month, maybe 1,000-2,000 baht an hour if you can get on them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks very much paully,

i am off to speak with the head of the school and the dean just above her.

As to how, you're right it will not be easy. Luckily the only other PhD holder in the department is my wife, so hopefully this will make things easier. i.e. i write the proposal, get -hopefully- some grants and then with her help , and untill my thai is at a half desent level, i could attempt it.

resources is a bigger problem in my opinion...., i.e can they pay those salaries if an MSc is not up and running?

As for the postgrad studies, that would be in English...

when you say' different scale and possibly longer contract' are you telling me that i would be a civil servant, or a different case of a contract teacher?

thanks again

costas

[chownah]

A University or Rajabhat department head here could offer you a job as a professor in food science, they would need to get authorisation from the relevant Dean to employ you.  Depending on the programmes taught, etc you could get paid more than the foreign language ajarns (you would be on a different scale) and possibly on a longer contract than one year. 

But, the big problem you face is how are you going to perform as an expert in an ordinary Thai Food Science Department?   Can you teach, or advise or research in Thai?  If not, how will the students/academic staff understand you?   There are a few 'international' (ie: English-language) programmes here at universities in the area of hospitality, hotel management etc which you may be able to approach, but they tend to be more on the management, not food science side.   But, it's worth a try if you can talk yourself into a position.   These international programmes pay much better than 25,000 baht a month, maybe 1,000-2,000 baht an hour if you can get on them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks very much paully,

i am off to speak with the head of the school and the dean just above her.

As to how, you're right it will not be easy. Luckily the only other PhD holder in the department is my wife, so hopefully this will make things easier. i.e. i write the proposal, get -hopefully- some grants and then with her help , and untill my thai is at a half desent level, i could attempt it.

resources is a bigger problem in my opinion...., i.e can they pay those salaries if an MSc is not up and running?

As for the postgrad studies, that would be in English...

when you say' different scale and possibly longer contract' are you telling me that i would be a civil servant, or a different case of a contract teacher?

thanks again

costas

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If your wife is a PhD holder and is already in the department can't she find out the information you want....and get it straight from the source and not through the grapevine here on TV?

[costas]

A University or Rajabhat department head here could offer you a job as a professor in food science, they would need to get authorisation from the relevant Dean to employ you.  Depending on the programmes taught, etc you could get paid more than the foreign language ajarns (you would be on a different scale) and possibly on a longer contract than one year. 

But, the big problem you face is how are you going to perform as an expert in an ordinary Thai Food Science Department?   Can you teach, or advise or research in Thai?  If not, how will the students/academic staff understand you?   There are a few 'international' (ie: English-language) programmes here at universities in the area of hospitality, hotel management etc which you may be able to approach, but they tend to be more on the management, not food science side.   But, it's worth a try if you can talk yourself into a position.   These international programmes pay much better than 25,000 baht a month, maybe 1,000-2,000 baht an hour if you can get on them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks very much paully,

i am off to speak with the head of the school and the dean just above her.

As to how, you're right it will not be easy. Luckily the only other PhD holder in the department is my wife, so hopefully this will make things easier. i.e. i write the proposal, get -hopefully- some grants and then with her help , and untill my thai is at a half desent level, i could attempt it.

resources is a bigger problem in my opinion...., i.e can they pay those salaries if an MSc is not up and running?

As for the postgrad studies, that would be in English...

when you say' different scale and possibly longer contract' are you telling me that i would be a civil servant, or a different case of a contract teacher?

thanks again

costas

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If your wife is a PhD holder and is already in the department can't she find out the information you want....and get it straight from the source and not through the grapevine here on TV?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

dont you think that this avenue i would have explored before posting?

my wife just (six months ago) came back from England where she was for the last 5 years studying, but has not worked in a Uni before now....

in typical Thai fashion, nobody in the University knows,

- from the last secretary to the heads of departments, faculties, vice-presidents (all 8 of them) and president- because it has not been done before in this particular Uni...

and since them asking would make some people loose face, i thought i would enquire here..

cheers

costas

PS.

do you actually have any answers for me chownah since i provided you with the info you requested, or you are just curious about me?clearly you must believe that i think with my feet if you believe that i would not have asked my wife....

thanks anyway

Edited June 23, 2005 by costas

[Tywais]

First my credentials I have been working as a 'foreign expert' at Chiangmai University for 13 years now going with 1 year contracts. This is because it is a government university and not private. However, a year and a half ago the President of the university came to tour our facility including my research project. My boss, the director, introduced him to me and told him about concerns regarding annual contracts. No guarantee of renewal and the position suddenly might be closed.

The President offered me a full time staff position on the spot as a Senior Researcher. This sets a precedence in that creating a new position for a foreigner has never been done (at CMU). Very long process with all my publications, 12 years of work reports and board reviews. It finally took place a little over a year ago and work under the same umbrella as the Thais. The first year was probation where they review your work progress every 4 months with written an oral presentations at the end which the make the decision to make it truly permanent. Fortunately for me they did.

A private uni has carte blanc on the hiring process. I was originally asked to work at Suranaree (Korat) as campus network manager and it would have been a permanent position and they pay very well (by Thai standards) in the neighborhood of 60k/month up.

If a gov university they usually have a fixed salary rate for the 3 position types that can be held by foreigners with foreign expert paying the most. At CMU that would be 27,500 salary (taxable) and 8,000B for housing (non-taxed).

And your field of expertise is important in the decision process, an MBA (for example) would probably not get you far unless you specialize in international banking, something along those lines. However your field has a much greater possiblity of finding a position (food). There is currently a lot of focus on research in food safety and nano-technology, both of which I am involved. My field of expertise is in computers/electronics and particle beam in applied nuclear (particle) physics, so it is very specific and the place I work had the only nuclear research facility in Thailand and were glad to get me. So it was a lot of luck and a bit of crisma does help (though I sorely lack in the latter)

One thing to note, the Thai government does not allow universities to do research for research sakes but must be able to apply it directly to commercial and industrial applications. They are trying to reduce importing technologies and be more independent.

You can do what I did. Just go knocking on university doors and bring your credentials. They will want your diplomas, CV (called biodata here) and possibly references. Hoevever if you have a very specific geographical location you are limiting your chances (I know this is obvious, but be flexible).

As for the position, they may have one open or if really impressed will generate a new position. Our facility has a position open now as a senior researcher and specifically looking for a farang. Minimum MSc in a technical field (physics, engineering, etc.).

[paully]

^ Nice work! Your proposal could be a runner then, Costas. Good luck.

[costas]

First my credentials    I have been working as a 'foreign expert' at Chiangmai University for 13 years now going with 1 year contracts.  This is because it is a government university and not private.  However, a year and a half ago the President of the university came to tour our facility including my research project.  My boss, the director, introduced him to me and told him about concerns regarding annual contracts.  No guarantee of renewal and the position suddenly might be closed.

The President offered me a full time staff position on the spot as a Senior Researcher.  This sets a precedence in that creating a new position for a foreigner has never been done (at CMU).  Very long process with all my publications, 12 years of work reports and board reviews.  It finally took place a little over a year ago and work under the same umbrella as the Thais.  The first year was probation where they review your work progress every 4 months with written an oral presentations at the end which the make the decision to make it truly permanent.  Fortunately for me they did.

A private uni has carte blanc on the hiring process.  I was originally asked to work at Suranaree (Korat) as campus network manager and it would have been a permanent position and they pay very well (by Thai standards) in the neighborhood of 60k/month up.

If a gov university they usually have a fixed salary rate for the 3 position types that can be held by foreigners with foreign expert paying the most.  At CMU that would be 27,500 salary (taxable) and 8,000B for housing (non-taxed).

And your field of expertise is important in the decision process, an MBA (for example) would probably not get you far unless you specialize in international banking, something along those lines.  However your field has a much greater possiblity of finding a position (food).  There is currently a lot of focus on research in food safety and nano-technology, both of which I am involved.  My field of expertise is in computers/electronics and particle beam in applied nuclear (particle) physics, so it is very specific and the place I work had the only nuclear research facility in Thailand and were glad to get me.  So it was a lot of luck and a bit of crisma does help (though I sorely lack in the latter)

One thing to note, the Thai government does not allow universities to do research for research sakes but must be able to apply it directly to commercial and industrial applications.  They are trying to reduce importing technologies and be more independent.

You can do what I did.  Just go knocking on university doors and bring your credentials.  They will want your diplomas, CV (called biodata here) and possibly references.  Hoevever if you have a very specific geographical location you are limiting your chances (I know this is obvious, but be flexible).

As for the position, they may have one open or if really impressed will generate a new position.  Our facility has a position open now as a senior researcher and specifically looking for a farang.  Minimum MSc in a technical field (physics, engineering, etc.).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

tywais,

Thank you very much for a very helpful and useful answer.

I'll probably print it out and head for the presidents' office....

I am unfortunately extremely limited geographically (i.e. Loei only), otherwise there was (still is not filled as far as i know) a position in the Food department in AIT allegedly paying an international salary!.

Since the lot here are of the poor type (...) i believe that i might have to try and sweeten them by getting a proposal or two in, and if the outcome is good i might have an extra chance...and probably correcting the odd abstract here and there

wouldn't go amiss...

thanks again for a very useful insight, give my best to the Food department people(with at least three of them we studied together in Reading)

cheers

costas

PS. would you PM me the three types of positions so that i can be as informed as possible when i have to make my case?)

[chownah]

............................

PS.

do you actually have any answers for me chownah since i provided you with the info you requested, or you are just curious about me?clearly you must believe that i think with my feet if you believe that i would not have asked my wife....

thanks anyway

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have no answers for you. I just thought it was odd that someone whose wife was "on the inside" could not find out what was up in regards to creating a new position. I still think its a bit odd.....but hey......oddity is the spice of life!!!!