Govt To Launch Seawater Desalination Programme

[george]

Govt urged to launch seawater desalination programme

RAYONG: -- A leading industrialist yesterday called on the government to establish seawater treatment plants for the production of freshwater, amid growing fears that crippling drought this year could see a sharp drop in industrial sector manufacturing rates.

Mr. Sombat Praihanwichitranut, director of Peroxi Thai Co. Ltd., told reporters that a desalination plant based in Thailand's eastern coastal province of Rayong would help address water shortages in the industrial Eastern Seaboard area.

Faced with severe water shortages this year, industries have been warned that they might have to slash their rates of production by as much as 10 percent.

The government has indicated that it wants to see a 40 percent drop in water usage, a move which industrialists have denounced as lethal for production efficiency.

Mr. Sombat said that desalination would obviate the need for the government to rely on the creation of artificial rain, and would halt water disputes between industry and the public.

--TNA 2005-06-22

[Jai Dee]

Finally... a Thai speaks the obvious that us falungs have been talking about for months...

<Where's an applauding smilie when you want one?>

Maybe... just maybe... the government will listen and do something now.

[patricktan]

Finally... a Thai speaks the obvious that us falungs have been talking about for months... 

<Where's an applauding smilie when you want one?>

Maybe... just maybe... the government will listen and do something now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It a very good ideal, Singapore have already started.

[mnoorsapl]

Have they considered the high budget to produce desalinated water?

[mrbojangles]

Govt urged to launch seawater desalination programme 

RAYONG: --  A leading industrialist yesterday called on the government to establish seawater treatment plants for the production of freshwater, amid growing fears that crippling drought this year could see a sharp drop in industrial sector manufacturing rates.

--TNA 2005-06-22

The U.K. isn't any better than Thailand. An Island surrounded by water and constantly persisting it down but 2 weeks of nice weather and we're stuffed. Hose pipe bans and all the rest of it.

Mr BoJ

[Thetyim]

How much energy does desalination use.

Is is solar powered ?

[bino]

Have they considered the high budget to produce desalinated water? 

Too right! Producing desalinated water uses an extreme amount of energy.

I recently watched a documentary on Saudi Arabia, and how they depend on desalination for 100% of their water. The documentary stated that 20% of Saudi Arabia's energy costs were spent on water production.

Considering that Saudi Arabia doesn't exactly have an energy shortage, and also probably the cheapest supply of oil, I can't imagine what the costs would be in Thailand who are already trying to cut back on energy comsumption.

[astral]

How much energy does desalination use.

Is is solar powered ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought they already did this on the salt flats around the delta of the Chowpaya river?

Yes it takes a lot of energy.

When I visited Saudi a few years ago, drinking water was more expensive than petrol for the car.

It is not a viable solution for irrigarion water!!

[meom]

How much energy does desalination use.

Is is solar powered ?

I thought they already did this on the salt flats around the delta of the Chowpaya river?

Yes it takes a lot of energy.

When I visited Saudi a few years ago, drinking water was more expensive than petrol for the car.

It is not a viable solution for irrigarion water!!

True; present price of gasoline in Saudi is 0.66 riyal/liter which equal to about 18 dollarcent.

Price of bottled drinking water is 2 riyal/liter which is a little over half a us dollar.

Raw water in bulk is cheaper but can't remember the price.

For irrigation they normally use water recycled from sewage treatment Plants.

[thaibebop]

At least someone is thinking.

[happymanme]

But then look at the uk 1 litre petrol 88pence 1/2 litre of water 95pence

bottled water is expense pretty much every where so not realy a valid comparison.

allan

[thaibebop]

But then look at the uk 1 litre petrol 88pence 1/2 litre of water 95pence

bottled water is expense pretty much every where so not realy a valid comparison.

allan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's expensive because the companies can make it so. Just Big Business there.

[meom]

But then look at the uk 1 litre petrol 88pence 1/2 litre of water 95pence

bottled water is expense pretty much every where so not realy a valid comparison.

allan

Maybe not but then again in the UK bottled water is a luxury since tap water is drinkable in most places unlike Saudi where tap water is not available in a lot of places and where it is available it is not really drinkable.

[mnoorsapl]

Have they considered the high budget to produce desalinated water? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Too right! Producing desalinated water uses an extreme amount of energy.

I recently watched a documentary on Saudi Arabia, and how they depend on desalination for 100% of their water. The documentary stated that 20% of Saudi Arabia's energy costs were spent on water production.

Considering that Saudi Arabia doesn't exactly have an energy shortage, and also probably the cheapest supply of oil, I can't imagine what the costs would be in Thailand who are already trying to cut back on energy comsumption.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Desalination is definately not the solution for Thailand.

[WhiteShiva]

How much energy does desalination use.

Is is solar powered ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought they already did this on the salt flats around the delta of the Chowpaya river?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is dewaterization - unlikely to produce much fresh water.....

[Jai Dee]

Anyone heard of any further developments on this subject yet?

[WhiteShiva]

Anyone heard of any further developments on this subject yet?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Man - it's only been a couple of months since the OP. In a year or so, they will have figured out the procedure for deciding who to elect for the fact-finding committee to etc, etc, etc.

Actually - I don't know, but I am pretty sure they have started spending the money!

[monty]

I can't see it as economically viable!

Desalination of seawater burns around 8 to 10 kWh per cubic meter using reverse osmosis.

This is not the same as making drinking water out of dirty water, making it out of seawater is much more harder due to the high saline level! (I now, I have a watermaker on my boat!)

Production cost of 40 Baht/cubic meter, how much are they going to sell it for?

If the government is going to subsidize (current price is around 14 Baht/unit for household, 10 Baht industrial), they'll burn even more money then by subsidizing fuel

Pattaya alone uses 150.000 cubic meters/day, subsidizing to bring it at regular(13 Baht) price would cost a cool 130 million/month

Rayong uses 500.000 cubic/day. do the maths yourself...

[haha]

curious about this subject. so, I did about 30 minutes of research on the topic via the internet. (isn't google incredible?)

from about 30 articles that I've read, it seems that the current cost of desalination ranges from $2.50 us dollars to a low one of about 25 cents per 1000 gallons or 4 cubic meters.

at the high end, we are looking at about 60 us cents per cubic meter.

the consensus of many of the articles were that the technology for desalination is progressing at a fast rate. such that the cost of desalination will decrease drastically in the next few years. to the point where as one source quoted, "it will be cheaper to desalinate sea water than to transport water".

whether these sources are true or not, I don't know. you be the judge. below are some of the articles.

evidently, many countries around the world are investing hundreds of millions of dollars into desalination plants. ...there must be something to it.

http://www.cbn.co.za/dailynews/July2005/article826.htm

http://www.marinwater.org/controller?action=menuclick&id=228

http://www.eelriver.org/html/publications_article_7.html

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:Z2qgahb...alination&hl=en

http://www.wonuc.org/desalination/conf_01conc.htm

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:mbR5ypl...alination&hl=en

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:sLlJSPg...alination&hl=en

http://www.scienceblog.com/community/article4961.html

[haha]

oh. I forgot to mention that these low figures are based on building large desalination plants. smaller plants would cost more.

[Jai Dee]

Last night I was talking to the Thai owner/manager of a large swimming pool company in Pattaya, and he told me that a consortium of business owners had met with the local government to discuss the possibility of building a desalination plant to ease Pattaya's water supply problems...

Heresay at the moment, but the concept does seem to be gathering momentum...

[otherstuff1957]

Investing in a giant government project is all very well, but why don't the residents do some of their own desalinization/water purification? There have been many cheap, small scale, solar powered water purification systems designed over the years. Systems like these are cheap and could be up and running in a matter of days, not months or years.

http://www.epsea.org/stills.html

http://www.permapak.net/solarstill.htm

http://www.solar.demokritos.gr/desabst/1979.htm

http://greenfuture.blogspot.com/2004/02/oneworld.html

www.desline.com/articoli/5143.pdf

[awarrumbungle]

There seems to be a lot of oversight here. Desalinization - wow, what a great idea - sounds like it's going to give someone a lot of face.

Oversight, sorry off track...... Isn't Thailand a tropical country? Hasn't Chiang Mai ust experienced floods? surely there is already enough water. What happened to better water management: Rainwater tanks, increseased efficiency, not watering the road to clean it...... etc etc.

Sounds like another great idea with no thought behind it.

[Jai Dee]

There seems to be a lot of oversight here.  Desalinization - wow,  what a great idea - sounds like it's going to give someone a lot of face. 

Oversight, sorry off track......  Isn't Thailand a tropical country?  Hasn't Chiang Mai ust experienced floods?  surely there is already enough water.  What happened to better water management:  Rainwater tanks, increseased efficiency,  not watering the road to clean it...... etc etc.

Sounds like another great idea with no thought behind it.

Have you been reading the news lately awarrumbungle?

I suggest you read a bit more through the news forum before posting rubbish like that again...

[awarrumbungle]

Jai Dee, I have been reading the news.... whats your point? Industries using a lot of water, Thailand needs more of it..... What am I missing?

In my over cynical way, I just asked why water collection and efficiency isn't focused on more than grand and expensive shemes.

The 3 Gorges Dam sounds and looks impressive, but it ultimately casuses a lot of destruction and environmental problems. Possibly causing more than it fixes.

So please tell me why my suggestion for efficiency and looking at simpler, cheaper and more practical solutions is rubbish.

If I am missing something please tell me, rather than blame me. Excuse my cynicsm.

On a further note, shouldn't we be trying to figure and solve the real underlying problem here. Draught in the tropics and why? A lot of sticky tape won't hold everything together.

Edited August 24, 2005 by awarrumbungle

[Rinrada]

There seems to be a lot of oversight here.  Desalinization - wow,  what a great idea - sounds like it's going to give someone a lot of face. 

Oversight, sorry off track......  Isn't Thailand a tropical country?  Hasn't Chiang Mai ust experienced floods?  surely there is already enough water.  What happened to better water management:  Rainwater tanks, increseased efficiency,  not watering the road to clean it...... etc etc.

Sounds like another great idea with no thought behind it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Crazy innit....LOS without is like Saudi Arabia with no sand.

On the Saudi subject i worked on one of their first De-sal plants in the 70s and although only a pioneer scheme it cost millions of bucks and went bust.

Good water management,containment,storage and transportation policys are needed here not grandiose schemes that have emptied the coffers of so many emerging 3rd world economys.

Only got to look at Africa and the place is littered with refineries that never worked ,car assembly plants that are rusting in the jungle and soft drink supply units that never quenched the throat of the nearest chav on a saturday night in downtown Wombassa,Abbijen or Lazigos....

De-sal is a great idea but "peng mak" and in Thailands case it would probabally be much cheaper to go and tow a lump of ice from Antartica and park it off the shore of Patti.

[DavieA]

There seems to be a lot of oversight here.  Desalinization - wow,  what a great idea - sounds like it's going to give someone a lot of face. 

Oversight, sorry off track......  Isn't Thailand a tropical country?  Hasn't Chiang Mai ust experienced floods?  surely there is already enough water.  What happened to better water management:  Rainwater tanks, increseased efficiency,  not watering the road to clean it...... etc etc.

Sounds like another great idea with no thought behind it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have you been reading the news lately awarrumbungle?

I suggest you read a bit more through the news forum before posting rubbish like that again...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm with Bungle Jai dee, I read the news and I'm not sure what your point is.....please let me know?

I live in South Australia....the driest state in the driest continent in the world and we don't suffer severe water shortages. Yes we might have far fewer people but it is common knowledge to use water wisley. I think that Thailand has more than enough water to go round, as Bungle says, more thought into ways of catching and storing it should be thought of. Look at Thailand and all it's great ideas in the past......quite frankly I think this idea will turn to s..t at a huge expense to the people.

[Galong]

There seems to be a lot of oversight here.  Desalinization - wow,  what a great idea - sounds like it's going to give someone a lot of face. 

Oversight, sorry off track......  Isn't Thailand a tropical country?  Hasn't Chiang Mai ust experienced floods?  surely there is already enough water.  What happened to better water management:  Rainwater tanks, increseased efficiency,  not watering the road to clean it...... etc etc.

Sounds like another great idea with no thought behind it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have you been reading the news lately awarrumbungle?

I suggest you read a bit more through the news forum before posting rubbish like that again...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jai Dee, is English your first language? If not, then I can see how you can misinterpret awarrumbungle's obviously sensible solution or at least contribution to the solving of the problem.

I see water being wasted all the time. In fact, earlier this week in Phuket, my neighbor had his lawn sprinklers going on for about 48 hours straight! His total lack of interest in saving water is likely to be very hard to tackle, but awarrumbungle's argument is sound. There is a lot of water being wasted all over the Kingdom. Common sense, here as well as in other countries, is not all that common.

Why did you call the post "rubbish"? Aren't you educated enough to come up with something more mature than that? How about addressing any weaknesses you may have found in awarrumbungle's argument?

[haha]

my 2 cents...

from reading the newspapers, I have heard that there is a common source of water that several countries here in southeast asia all rely on. I think it was the mekong, but not sure. someone can correct me if they wish.

well, as we all know, china is growing incredibly fast. to the point where their use of oil has increased dramatically. and we all know what is happening to the cost of oil because of this.

...my guess, and this is just a guess on my part, is that their need for water will also increase too in the future.

if they will need more water in the future, does that mean they will take more from the river that all these southeastern asian nations all rely on?

if this is the case, what are the smaller nations along the river suppose to do about this?

the river starts in china. so if they want to create dams and reservoirs to stockpile the water, do they have the right to do so? more importantly, if they do, where are the smaller nations to get their water from then?

I don't know if desalination plants are the way to go. for all I know, maybe the other posters are right - that there is plenty of water to go around, and it only needs to be managed right.

the people who should be really up on all this is the farmers, and the government who is responsible for the people.

if it takes years to build a large desalination plant, somebody had better be talking about it or else we will all be in deep dodo for sure.

would it be better to build more dams and reservoir to stockpile the water that is already here, or to build desalination plants? this seems to be the big question.

which is more expensive? a dam/reservoir or a desalination plant? which takes more space? which is more flexible in location? so many questions. I'm glad I'm not doing all the thinking.

[Tokker]

I don't claim to have all the answers but I've been a watermanagement engineer for almost 8 years now, and to me, building a desalination plant in Pattaya, a place with an average rainfall of more than 100 mm a month (http://www.pattaya.net/weather.htm) is BS.

An example: before my wife takes a shower she turns on the water. Obviously. But after that she starts brushing her teeth, combing her hair or whatever, leaving the water running. In the end she wasted probably about half of the water for nothing. I am convinced this behaviour is typical and not only in Thailand. Can anybody explain to me why an average american uses about 600 liters of water a day, while a European uses only about 150 to 200 liters? At first sight, they seem to have the same style of living.