Can Thailand Really Do Anything Else To Alienate The Tourists And Expats?

[Tejas]

samuiman

I liked the place enough to even pick a place to settle down and I leased some land and built a lovely villa on Koh Samui. I lived in the villa for almost two years but things were not perfect in paradise. The scams and rip offs slowly grind you down until you realise you are no longer enjoying yourself. I got tired of being continually ripped off by the Thais and I sold up. Now I holiday in Cambodia and Vietnam spending about two to three months in each. Although no place is perfect, I have found the other Asian countries I have spent time in to be considerably better than Thailand with respect to corruption and in your face rip offs. They are also much cheaper for almost everything.

Have you ever actually been to Thailand or any of these other countries? Everything you say is the opposite of my experiences and I have lived in Thailand for over 20 years as well as Vietnam for a short time and talked with many expats in Cambodia. I am really not sure if you are trolling, have had really bad luck, or - like many expats - just like complaining.

Ulysses G........you always say the same thing..........and then I respond with pretty much the same thing.

We have both been here for similar periods (me longer).

We have both traveled all over the region.

But I just do not get where you are coming from.......it is like you are ignoring the real and growing problems in Thailand: corruption, stealing, lying, xenophobia (especially with regard to how they are playing the immigration/visa cards these days).

Maybe you are a huge optimist who refuses to come down from that high.

I can assure you the OP is not a Troll. Many expats and tourists are disappointed with what has been happening here.

Cambodia? I have always found them to be much nicer than Thais.......I never have been fearful of crime............no xenophobia............no problems at all with the police and immigration.

Does Cambodia have a problem with corruption. Sure. So does the USA.

I just think, and many others do too, that corruption is now part of Thai culture.........almost the "thing to do." It is like a culturally accepted game.

Back to the topic: They have done virtually everything imaginable to alienate tourists and expats, especially over the past ten years.

It was first disguised as security (the lets get the bad guys crap). Then it morphed into security PLUS social engineering (the quality tourist/expat crap).

Then they move on to attack mixed race families............why? Xenophobia is the only answer.

What surprises me is the guy who started this is no longer in power.......he is a wanted terrorist.

Why the new guy does not do something to reverse all of the damage done in the past is a mystery to me.........maybe he is too busy with other things.

Sometimes I wish all of us would stop arguing, get on the same page, sell all of our assets, and leave..........no more spending money or supporting honeys in Thailand-Titanic.

That would send them a big message.

[slapout]

Would those whom the message is aimed at, have the where with all to decipher it? Somehow I doubt the reasons for any coordinated effort as suggested would be acknowledged

[Ulysses G.]

You can bet your life that Berkshire and UG haven't done too much of the above and if they had they might be of a different opinion.

I own a chain of stores that are doing pretty well and have never been ripped off by a Thai in 20 years. Think again. 

[dumball]

expatJ , you have written the most off base post I have read in all my time with TV , youi have no idea what so ever what it is like to live in Cambodia as an xpat none .

considering the state the country was in after KR , they have made tremendous steps forward into the future whilst Thailand , at minumum , has stagnated for at least the past 10 years , alienating more and more Westerners as time goes by . Their building standards are good but maybe could be improved , have not seen any collapsing or catching fire and killing numerous people , as to the water supply . In a recent report , Cambodia was awarded the stockholm water industry award for 2010 for consistant supply of potable water with a minimal loss of only 5to9%

The medical facilities are improving and a new up to date hospital is in proccess of being built , accident victims are not 'Tossed wily nily ' into the back of a pick-up truck , but transported in one of many AMBULANCES to the hospital by trained staff , there is free medical available for the poor which has also improved in the 5 years I have been here . There is a huge dentistry building with 100 treatment rooms where any one can go to get first class treatment from zero to low cost , I have first hand knowledge of this , upper plate for $120.00 and I am on the upper charge scale .

Edited June 15, 2010 by 7by7
Flames removed.

[Ulysses G.]

Ulysses G........you always say the same thing..........and then I respond with pretty much the same thing.

We have both been here for similar periods (me longer).

We have both traveled all over the region.

But I just do not get where you are coming from.......it is like you are ignoring the real and growing problems in Thailand: corruption, stealing, lying, xenophobia (especially with regard to how they are playing the immigration/visa cards these days).

Thailand has ALWAYS been a shady place for shady people and with all of the things you claim have just started happening in the "last 10 years". I have no idea how you missed them before, but if anything some of these things have improved.

It is not as bad as the Philippines or Cambodia, but it has always been a place to keep your guard up and watch your back, but the danger is subtler than other such other places, so it is more pleasant.

A lot of expats and tourists seem to think that it is an all-year summer camp for cheap Charlies and the Thais are supposed to put up with all of their crap, but the truth is that certain things like cars, imports and electronics have always been expensive and violence has always been lurking right below the surface if one asks for it (and sometimes just because of bad luck).

I have never thought otherwise, but I was willing to accept it because I like it here and the truth is that no place is perfect. Too many posters seem to have had unreal expectations of Thailand being a peaceful, cheap paradise and are seething with anger because they misjudged the ways things are - they also seem to have the same exact problem with Thai women. Maybe some of them need to realize that the problem is with them, not Thailand.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[anonymouse]

I also wonder why people join Thai Visa just to tell everyone how bad their life was in Thailand

If you go over to one of the Cambodia sites you hear all the same whining that you get here about owning land etc

here's an example, one of many

from khmer440.com

"My advice is not to buy anything that is remotely desirable to another khmer.

Title means nothing,if a khmer wants it he will steal it.

Then if you go to court the person who pays the most to the judge gets the verdict.

I have 1500 sq meters in kep,soft title but probably not worth stealing.

I HAD another 5000 sq metres,soft title and stolen by the governor.

Ordered to pay compo by hun sen and was given the money which he stole also.

Also have a 1500 sq metre block down the bassac river,communal title.

This means that the commune chief can sell the land to the powerful c%nt and pocket the money.

Now have a shophouse on a block with a real title,too shitty and small to steal.

There is no system of land titles in this country and there probably never will be.

Why would the rich and powerful want a system that prevents them from stealing?"

different Asian country same sh&t

Edited June 15, 2010 by anonymouse

[Tejas]

Ulysses G........you always say the same thing..........and then I respond with pretty much the same thing.

We have both been here for similar periods (me longer).

We have both traveled all over the region.

But I just do not get where you are coming from.......it is like you are ignoring the real and growing problems in Thailand: corruption, stealing, lying, xenophobia (especially with regard to how they are playing the immigration/visa cards these days).

Thailand has ALWAYS been a shady place for shady people and with all of the things you claim have just started happening in the "last 10 years". I have no idea how you missed them before, but if anything some of these things have improved.

It is not as bad as the Philippines or Cambodia, but it has always been a place to keep your guard up and watch your back, but the danger is subtler than other such other places, so it is more pleasant.

A lot of expats and tourists seem to think that it is an all-year summer camp for cheap Charlies and the Thais are supposed to put up with all of their crap, but the truth is that certain things like cars, imports and electronics have always been expensive and violence has always been lurking right below the surface if one asks for it (and sometimes just because of bad luck).

I have never thought otherwise, but I was willing to accept it because I like it here and the truth is that no place is perfect. Too many posters seem to have had unreal expectations of Thailand being a peaceful, cheap paradise and are seething with anger because they misjudged the ways things are - they also seem to have the same exact problem with Thai women. Maybe some of them need to realize that the problem is with them, not Thailand.

You are twisting what I said.

Yes, I am fully aware that Thailand has always been a "shady place for shady people" and never said otherwise. So, I did not "miss them before."

I also never claimed anything "just started happening over the past ten years." I am stating the "bad stuff" has accelerated and intensified, especially over the past ten years.

I disagree that the danger element in Thailand is less than in the Philippines or Cambodia (we can agree to disagree.......but statistics on violent crime this might surprise you.......still, in all of these countries most of the serious crime is localized in particular regions or parts of cities).

I also think the need to "keep your guard up and watch your back" has greatly increased over the past ten years. Again, I am not saying that was not necessary in the past; I am saying that it is more necessary now because of socio-economic problems in the country.

In my view the level of crime and violence today--especially against farangs--is far greater now than ten years ago.

We agree: No place is perfect...............this is a sad reality (wish we could do something about it).

We agree: Too many people have unreal expectations about what Thailand is actually like (and I don't mean you.......nobody has a monopoly on truth.....I sure don't).

We agree: Lots of expats are angry because the reality of Thailand did not come close to the myth of Thailand (people really need to try to separate myth from fact).

We agree: Lots of expats seem to think Thai women are somehow from a different planet where women all worship men Not true.

We agree: Some people need to realize "the problem is with them." [ I would say that pretty much means all of us need to realize the problem is with all of us.....but I get your meaning.]

[Ulysses G.]

If I twisted what you said, it was not on purpose, but I am glad that we can agree on a number of things as I have nothing against you as a person. 

[madmitch]

I've never really been scammed out of money in Thailand other than the usual tuktuk rip-offs and short change at the bar. I have only ever paid tea money once to a public official and that was at the request of the person handling my condo purchase, who knew the official would look 'favourably' at the property tax valuation (saving a lot less than the cash in the brown envelope). OK, I have overlooked a couple of stops in the car as well.

In KL I was scammed out of approximately 800 ringgit by a confidence trickster in broad daylight and in Vietnam a friend and I were followed by two ladies and a pimp, demanding money for the time we spent with the ladies, which was nothing more than a no thanks we are not interested conversation on the street. As a bunch of thugs started arriving we had no option other than to negotiate a payment. I've experienced nothing like that in Thailand and these events occurred during very short stays in those countries.

The same friend became a part owner of a bar in Vietnam which he and his partner have had to put up for sale due to ever increasing demands from landlords, police, licensing authorities and the taxman. Much worse than Thailand.

I can't say anything about Cambodia.

If you keep your wits about you and, for example, know that the Grand Palace doesn't close for lunch, Thailand is not as bad as you might think.

But I have never lived in Samui.

[dumball]

just been off on a tangent to kymer 440 for an hour searching for the xpat complaining abour property ripoff , could not find it anywhere or anything even approaching , in fact all the posters seemed upbeat , looking for apartments and shophouses to start a buisness etc , but of course , I am by no means Sherlock Holmes . I am not decrying the poster , but maybe he went back in history to find what he posted , not fair play to do that if he did as I have not heard of any whiners or a mass exodus , quite the opposite actually .

[yabaaaa]

I can honestly say that I dont feeel unwelcome in Thailand at all and that I havent been ripped off at anytime BUT I do know a lot of people who due to their own choice of "companion" have and through my wife's job know a lot of the women she meets do not care at all for the man/men they are with its solely about money (and they are quite happy to boast about it) which my wife finds rather sad.

Thailand does seem to have a lot of women with extremely low morals whose sole aim in life is to get someone else to pay their bills, maybe one reason is they cant claim it off the state same as the UK in which case would the UK be the same without its benefit system?

Its a sad world.

[Heng]

I also wonder why people join Thai Visa just to tell everyone how bad their life was in Thailand

No idea what the psychological issue is officially diagnosed as but it's like back in school when guys get dumped by their girlfriends, or maybe when someone gets divorced and then they do nothing but talk crap about their exes and sometimes generalize to include all women (all folks from X country, all X types... etc.). And these same folks are the ones that sob when their exes get remarried or move on or whatever (this is what is represented by folks who are just now moving to Thailand or already living here... in their minds, these are guys or gals moving in with their ex).

IMO they don't have closure and maybe they are still in love with the place (good luck trying to get them to admit it though).

[KunMatt]

Another factor in all of this is respect of Farangs by the Thais. In places such as Samui where so many Farangs turn up to simply get off their heads at full-moon parties and generally behave like dicks, its not difficult to understand why the locals have little respect for the average Farang, even if they are perfectly respectable as the OP no doubt is.

One of the worst things about Pattaya is the way in which some Farangs treat the Thais.

In other places such as Chaing Mai where the Farangs tend to be better behaved there will be a greater degree of respect in general so a better attitude from the Thais. In Vietnam/Cambodia the dick-head brigade have not arrived (yet).

I totally agree with this. In most tourist destinations in Thailand the Thais that have to deal with Farangs every day have put up with a lot of crap and disrespect from dickheads, as well as seeing most of them threat other Thai women like dirt, and it has made them loathe us.

I stayed in Phuket and Samui the first time I visited Thailand 5 years ago and the impression I went away with was that Thais were the most respectful and friendly people I had ever met. Upon going back to the same places (and hotels even) recently it was the exact opposite and right now I never want to return to Samui again. I foresee that this will spread more as Thais are forced to deal with the worst of us and tar us all with the same brush but it's not their fault they were forced to witness lowlifes living their low-lives everyday.

I was reading a Thai writing book recently and one line in the preface really stuck out when it mentions "Thai people's legendary friendliness"; 5 years ago I would have backed this up but if I was visiting Samui for the fist time right now I would dispute it judging the Thais I recently encountered.

[samuiman]

Thanks to all who have replied. (Both the moderate replies and the crazy ones) I am amazed at some of the stinging vitriolic replies my post has generated. I am surprised that the crazies can still see their computer screen there must be so must spittle on it from ranting!

It is a pity that so many threads on this forum irrespective of their value are turned into a slagging match. There is a lot of valuable information on Thai Visa but getting past the rubbish can be hard work. Just for the interest of those who made assumptions about me, hopefully this will put your mind at ease and you can sleep easy tonight. I have worked all of my life, paid my taxes, was lucky with a few property deals, sold at the right time and am now lucky enough to be retired at an age where I can still have some adventures. I am as far from being a shady character as any other normal person you may meet. I may have stolen some sweets as a kid and parked on a few double yellow lines but thats about it. I dont have tatoos, am not a larger lout and I do not wear a football vest when I go to a restaurant. In my travels to Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam, I have been polite to those that were polite to me and generous to those who helped me. If someone does a good job for me, I will compliment them, if they do a bad job, I will tell them so. I only complain when there is something worth complaining about and the rip-offs I experienced in Koh Samui were certainly worth mentioning. I started the thread to see how many others that bought land or a villa faired with the Thai people and officials they encountered.

As I mentioned at the start, I am not talking about the easy to avoid scams and rip-offs that you can avoid if you are streetwise like being short changed etc. Everyone knows that this type of minor scamming and fiddling is part of life in Thailand and other Asian countries to some degree. What I am talking about is almost every Thai person in authority I dealth with being corrupt to some degree. Even getting a telephone line to the house required a bribe to the rep in the telephone company. It was either get the line immediately with a bribe or wait up to 6 months to get the line. I found this same attitude with the land office, Thai builder, lawyer, property management company and even the police. Although buying/selling my villa was not the most pleasant experience, I have chalked it down to being another adventure in Asia.

Anyway, hopefully I have cleared up some grey areas.

Chok Dee to all.

[Ulysses G.]

 What I am talking about is almost every Thai person in authority I dealth with being corrupt to some degree. 

Again, I have had completely the opposite experience (unless I went looking for someone corrupt to deal with). 

[Johpa]

I am just curious as to why someone of apparently substantial means and who can afford to retire relatively young, would build a retirement villa in a tourist center such as Samui. It would be akin to retiring on Waikiki. Samui is a great place to visit, has opportunities for tourist generated income, but is not the place that I would imagine for a retirement location. At least the OP was smart with his money early on to balance out the lack of common sense on retiring into a tourist-we-are out-to-get-you location. I can see how Cambodia or Vietnam would be far more sensible options, but it doesn't really reflect upon Thais in general as rest assured the future tourist centers in those two countries will have the same issues as Samui once fully matured.

[anonymouse]

I am just curious as to why someone of apparently substantial means and who can afford to retire relatively young, would build a retirement villa in a tourist center such as Samui. It would be akin to retiring on Waikiki. Samui is a great place to visit, has opportunities for tourist generated income, but is not the place that I would imagine for a retirement location. At least the OP was smart with his money early on to balance out the lack of common sense on retiring into a tourist-we-are out-to-get-you location. I can see how Cambodia or Vietnam would be far more sensible options, but it doesn't really reflect upon Thais in general as rest assured the future tourist centers in those two countries will have the same issues as Samui once fully matured.

I'd agree the Samui factor may have had something to do with it. I'm up in Chiang Mai the same as UG and can honestly say I have not been caught out with any scams, maybe it's just luck or the Thai people around me have given me some protection.

When I first came here there was no Thai visa or such like to read or ask people about potential scams, I'd have thought that people are much more clued up these days.

[samuiman]

I am just curious as to why someone of apparently substantial means and who can afford to retire relatively young, would build a retirement villa in a tourist center such as Samui. It would be akin to retiring on Waikiki. Samui is a great place to visit, has opportunities for tourist generated income, but is not the place that I would imagine for a retirement location. At least the OP was smart with his money early on to balance out the lack of common sense on retiring into a tourist-we-are out-to-get-you location. I can see how Cambodia or Vietnam would be far more sensible options, but it doesn't really reflect upon Thais in general as rest assured the future tourist centers in those two countries will have the same issues as Samui once fully matured.

To answer your questions.

The reason I chose Samui were as follows.

1. I have two friends from my home country who had bought property on Samui and were living there.

2. I wanted a base for the rest of my "adventures".

3. I picked the north of the island 3km from Maenam which is very quiet.

As far as substantial means is concerned, I am very far from wealthy.

I have a house and apartment in my home country that I own with no mortgage. The house is rented to a family I do not know through a letting agent and the apartment is rented to a friend. Both of these generate cash for me. I have a apartment in Spain with 10 years remaining on the mortgage. I do not make any cash from the apartment in Spain but it does not cost me any either. It pays for itself. I bought and sold a few houses in my home country and made about €400,000 and that is funding my retirement. By the time I exhaust the cash reserve, the apartment in Spain will be paid for and I will have rentals on 3 properties in total. The key to this was being lucky enough to sell my property before the crash. If this had not happened, I would be at home licking my wounds and wondering where it all went wrong.

Chok Dee to all.

Edited June 15, 2010 by samuiman

[philw]

I own a chain of stores that are doing pretty well and have never been ripped off by a Thai in 20 years. Think again. 

Very nice UG but sorry I find it impossible to accept your statement.

I own a factory employing currently 35 staff, previously owned 2 BOI approved companies,one with over 280 staff and have I lived here for 22 years.

Very sorry but I find it very difficult to believe you.

Every, repeat every, Thai person I have employed with even minor responsibility for cash control, i have caught stealing.

A 100% hit rate. ( probably about the same as Liverpool, I admit )

The never ending hits, scams, distractions, deliberate obstructions, stupidities, Staff dramas, incompetence and just simple Thai bloody mindedness are a constant distraction to the creation of a real business.

It would be a very stupid businessman who did not look at Thailand with a jaundiced eye.

Among the contacts I have in my industry nobody ( American, European, Japanese, Taiwanese, Singaporean or Chinese ) takes Thailand seriously.

I suspect your glasses are overly rosy and I regret that, in my opinion, the prognosis for Thailand is bad and getting worse.

I certainly do not believe your statement that you have never been " ripped off in 20 years ", unless you live in a bunker surrounded by cotton wool.

Ph

[Ulysses G.]

Not believing me is your prerogative,  but as far as I am aware it is true (it is possible that the girl at 7/11 might have short-changed me once or twice). I certainly have never had a Thai official or a Thai that I do business with try to ask for a bribe or cheat me for anything - which is really my point. 

[anonymouse]

Very nice UG but sorry I find it impossible to accept your statement.

I own a factory employing currently 35 staff, previously owned 2 BOI approved companies,one with over 280 staff and have I lived here for 22 years.

Very sorry but I find it very difficult to believe you.

Every, repeat every, Thai person I have employed with even minor responsibility for cash control, i have caught stealing.

A 100% hit rate. ( probably about the same as Liverpool, I admit )

The never ending hits, scams, distractions, deliberate obstructions, stupidities, Staff dramas, incompetence and just simple Thai bloody mindedness are a constant distraction to the creation of a real business.

It would be a very stupid businessman who did not look at Thailand with a jaundiced eye.

Among the contacts I have in my industry nobody ( American, European, Japanese, Taiwanese, Singaporean or Chinese ) takes Thailand seriously.

I suspect your glasses are overly rosy and I regret that, in my opinion, the prognosis for Thailand is bad and getting worse.

I certainly do not believe your statement that you have never been " ripped off in 20 years ", unless you live in a bunker surrounded by cotton wool.

Ph

I can't vouch for the validity of UG's statement but he is a sponsor on Thai visa and is running a successful business.

If you have a 100% hit rate on dishonest staff you are either a really bad judge of character or very unlucky

I do think the strenght of the baht is hurting tourism and exports at the moment.

[philw]

Very nice UG but sorry I find it impossible to accept your statement.

I own a factory employing currently 35 staff, previously owned 2 BOI approved companies,one with over 280 staff and have I lived here for 22 years.

Very sorry but I find it very difficult to believe you.

Every, repeat every, Thai person I have employed with even minor responsibility for cash control, i have caught stealing.

A 100% hit rate. ( probably about the same as Liverpool, I admit )

The never ending hits, scams, distractions, deliberate obstructions, stupidities, Staff dramas, incompetence and just simple Thai bloody mindedness are a constant distraction to the creation of a real business.

It would be a very stupid businessman who did not look at Thailand with a jaundiced eye.

Among the contacts I have in my industry nobody ( American, European, Japanese, Taiwanese, Singaporean or Chinese ) takes Thailand seriously.

I suspect your glasses are overly rosy and I regret that, in my opinion, the prognosis for Thailand is bad and getting worse.

I certainly do not believe your statement that you have never been " ripped off in 20 years ", unless you live in a bunker surrounded by cotton wool.

Ph

I can't vouch for the validity of UG's statement but he is a sponsor on Thai visa and is running a successful business.

If you have a 100% hit rate on dishonest staff you are either a really bad judge of character or very unlucky

I do think the strenght of the baht is hurting tourism and exports at the moment.

What has sponsor got to do with it ?? And by the way, I also run a successful business, possibly with far higher turnover than a bookshop or 4.

Your second sentence is not correct.

Maybe I can catch them, rather than it being my bad character judgement.

Care to visit ?

Pm me and I can show you my operation.

ph

[BigWheelMan]

My grandfather had a chain of successful clothing stores in Gravesend, Kent, England from 1919 up to 1980 when he retired. I used to work with him often. Even in those days, disloyalties, dishonesty and pilfering amongst staff was rife. This is a phenomenon that affects all business owners the world over, always has, always will.

Respectfully saying that if UG has never experienced any of those problems in all his 20 odd years in business, he must be extremely fortunate or has his wits about him and is a very shrewd man.

Good luck to him and may his business thrive, but of course everyone’s experiences are different and can only see the situation as has affected them personally. This is understandable, so in a way, everybody is right.

This problem does not only pertain to Thailand, but the world over, I can assure you.

I do disagree with one poster who quoted that Thailand has become worse for rip-offs and corruption over the last 10 years. I think it`s always been there but maybe we have become more aware of it, more publicized, better ex-pat communication via Internet etc.

Going back to the theme of this thread, I think it`s impossible to assume whether or not Thailand is better or worse than any other country until we`ve actually lived in that other country for a long term.

Edited June 15, 2010 by BigWheelMan

[alfieconn]

You can bet your life that Berkshire and UG haven't done too much of the above and if they had they might be of a different opinion.

I own a chain of stores that are doing pretty well and have never been ripped off by a Thai in 20 years. Think again.

Confirms what i thought,havn't done any of the below

I.E bought a car, leased/bought land and built a house, children going to school, dealt with government offices etc.

Edited June 15, 2010 by alfieconn

[Ulysses G.]

Wrong once again. Very wrong.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

 And by the way, I also run a successful business, possibly with far higher turnover than a bookshop or 4.

That is very impressive, but it does not negate the fact that I have built shop houses, bought company cars and dealt with numerous government officials and offices without ever being approached for a bribe or cheated. That is the subject of the thread.

[tonywebster]

Very nice UG but sorry I find it impossible to accept your statement.

I own a factory employing currently 35 staff, previously owned 2 BOI approved companies,one with over 280 staff and have I lived here for 22 years.

Very sorry but I find it very difficult to believe you.

Every, repeat every, Thai person I have employed with even minor responsibility for cash control, i have caught stealing.

A 100% hit rate. ( probably about the same as Liverpool, I admit )

The never ending hits, scams, distractions, deliberate obstructions, stupidities, Staff dramas, incompetence and just simple Thai bloody mindedness are a constant distraction to the creation of a real business.

It would be a very stupid businessman who did not look at Thailand with a jaundiced eye.

Among the contacts I have in my industry nobody ( American, European, Japanese, Taiwanese, Singaporean or Chinese ) takes Thailand seriously.

I suspect your glasses are overly rosy and I regret that, in my opinion, the prognosis for Thailand is bad and getting worse.

I certainly do not believe your statement that you have never been " ripped off in 20 years ", unless you live in a bunker surrounded by cotton wool.

Ph

I can't vouch for the validity of UG's statement but he is a sponsor on Thai visa and is running a successful business.

If you have a 100% hit rate on dishonest staff you are either a really bad judge of character or very unlucky

I do think the strenght of the baht is hurting tourism and exports at the moment.

What the hel_l is this supposed to mean? Are you suggesting everyone in Liverpool is a thief?

I was with you all the way until this point, certain posters do talk <deleted> and believe that just because they believe they have never been scammed means it NEVER happens to anyone else, or if it does happen to you then it's you fault. These people need to get lives away from their computers and get out in the real world.

[Ulysses G.]

You have mixed up two posts from different people and, apparently, you do not understand what I am saying. You have it backwards. The OP and several others are the ones who are insisting that most Thais are cheats and corrupt. I am not saying that such things do not exist at all. They do.

I am saying that the majority of Thais are honest and that they are blowing things way out of proportion.

Edited June 16, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[tonywebster]

You have mixed up two posts from different people and, apparently, you do not understand what I am saying. You have it backwards. The OP and several others are the ones who are insisting that most Thais are cheats and corrupt. I am not saying that such things do not exist at all. They do.

I am saying that the majority of Thais are honest and that they are blowing things way out of proportion.

Maybe the majority of Thais are honest, but we don't deal with the majority of Thais, we deal with the ones that are in the areas where we live, or in the tourist areas, and these people tend to be scammers, or at the very least tend to be slow coming forward with information that is important to contracts etc.

On my side, as far as I am aware, I have not been scammed too much or I have accepted the scam as a minor inconvenience that if I didn't pay it would cost more and cost more time, I am talking about 300 Baht at the border or 200 Baht paid to the BIB under the 'made up offences act'. Yes I know by doing this I am fuelling it, but its never going to end anyway.

I have never been scammed for major amounts of money as I would simply refuse, I question everything and if something doesn't smell right then I move on. But I am not foolish enough to believe that other people don't get scammed, and when they scammed it is not because of stupidity, generally it is because information has not been given to them or they have been given wrong information that sounds plausible, but I guess they won't get scammed again as they will learn their lesson.

Edit to add that I make no mention of you, and your post just below mine seems to make no sense in relation to my post, maybe your post was not aimed at me as I have clearly not got confused or got it wrong. or is the post I have quoted originally two separate posts from 2 different posters?

Edited June 16, 2010 by tonywebster

[Ulysses G.]

I agree with much of what you say, but I do not remember any posts that claimed that no one gets scammed or I would have disagreed with them. There is certainly cheating and corruption in Thailand - and more than some countries - but plenty of foreigners never have to deal with them. One has to be careful and have good luck, but that is true almost anywhere.

Edited June 16, 2010 by Ulysses G.