Can Thailand Really Do Anything Else To Alienate The Tourists And Expats?

[samuiman]

Your experience may differ - This is just my 2 cents worth........

I am 54 and retired. I was lucky and made a couple of good money decisions some years ago which meant I could retire a few years early. Over the years, I have made many trips to Thailand (Travelled all over the country, enjoyed myself and happily spent a LOT of money) I liked the place enough to even pick a place to settle down and I leased some land and built a lovely villa on Koh Samui. I lived in the villa for almost two years but things were not perfect in paradise. The scams and rip offs slowly grind you down until you realise you are no longer enjoying yourself. I got tired of being continually ripped off by the Thais and I sold up. Now I holiday in Cambodia and Vietnam spending about two to three months in each. Although no place is perfect, I have found the other Asian countries I have spent time in to be considerably better than Thailand with respect to corruption and in your face rip offs. They are also much cheaper for almost everything. Perhaps they have just not caught up with Thailand. I dont know!

There are good and bad people everywhere but in relation to my time in Thailand, the Thais take corruption to a new level. In almost all of my dealings with land officials, lawyers, management companies, construction company etc. Every one of them was utterly corrupt and either tried to or sucessfully managed to rip me off for quite a bit of money. I am not talking about the type of scams that you can avoid by being street wise. I am talking about things you have no control over, like finding out after you buy the land, that only one specific lawyer or builder is allowed within the development to build your house and guess what....they are massively more expensive than all of the other builders / lawyers.

Even on my last day on Samui, Kasikorn bank ripped me off when I was transferring money back to my normal European bank account. The Baht/euro rate agreed when I did the transfer at 11am in the morning was changed later that day before they did the actual transfer. When I queried this, they said that there was an unforseen delay and after I left they needed to talk to Bangkok and the rate changed before they did the transfer at 4pm. They screwed me for another €1200 with the new shitty rate just to twist the knife before I left.

When I hear of other unfortunate punters being ripped off with their flights, (another posting today) my heart goes out to them but I am not surprised. I hope their insurance compensates them. (Visa is normally good at this if they paid by credit card) The Thai people cant seem to think about tomorrow and its just what they can scam/steal today. Now that I no longer visit Thailand except for visa runs, they will be without the approx €40,000 a year that I spent while living there full time plus I employed a maid and part time gardener. Its Thailands loss as it no longer has anything that I cannot find in other Asian countries. I think Thailand has a lot going for it and I still like the country and many of the people but at the end of the day, what chance do you have when even the police who are there to defend/help you in your hour of need are corrupt?

Chok dee to all.

Edited June 14, 2010 by samuiman

[Heng]

Add a 'ha ha ha' clown stamp to each visa extension stamp?

[samuiman]

Add a 'ha ha ha' clown stamp to each visa extension stamp?

Ha..ha. Good one. Thankfully I will not be needing any more visa extensions.

[CarlBkk]

But is Thailand really more rip-off centric than other similar Asian nations? I just haven't found it to be as hostile to the foreigner as Cambodia, Phils or Indo. But then again I haven't ever lived in those countries, just visited, and that was enough to form my impression.

[dumball]

Cambodia HOSTILE ???? Do not know what area you visited or when , I have lived here for 5+ years and have not met a Kymer that is not laid back and happy go lucky , I can honestly say , it is the easiest place to live I have been to in my adult life . Maybe you are living in a cave in northern Thailand 20 miles from any other habitation and have all of your needs flown in by homing pigeons or on the backs of migrant elephants .

I must digress , I guy asked a young book seller if he could get him a certain book that no one , it seemed , had in their baskets , he was gone about twenty minutes and showed the book he had found especially for him to the customer , the guy just laughed and told him he was only joking . Well , quite rightly so , the young lad became very belligerent and agitated , wasn't you by any chance , was it ???????????????????????

[dumball]

Incidentally , that excuse for a tourist was a German , Carl .

[anotheruser]

If they read this post I am sure they can form a commission to come up with new and innovative ways to alienate people and lose potential visitors.

[Heng]

Add a 'ha ha ha' clown stamp to each visa extension stamp?

Ha..ha. Good one. Thankfully I will not be needing any more visa extensions.

World War 2 style arm bands identifying national origin to help in the alienation process...

[jubby]

Add a 'ha ha ha' clown stamp to each visa extension stamp?

Ha..ha. Good one. Thankfully I will not be needing any more visa extensions.

World War 2 style arm bands identifying national origin to help in the alienation process...

Good Idea, not really necessary because a Falangs a Falang right but it could be a nice little earner , maybe 2000 baht each and issued by Immigration. Maybe put a Microchip in them recording Visa information so the Alien can be scanned at Police Tea Money Road Blocks, and a small 'Charge' to disable the Alien if he misses his 90 day report.

Things aren't getting any better for sure.

I'm sick of the Attitude thing with certain Officials , Its just not necessary, and they seem to make up there own rules to suit.

My Parents 70+ years haven't visited us for a while, I'm thinking maybe we could all take a trip to a neigbouring country to meet them next time.

[Ulysses G.]

samuiman

I liked the place enough to even pick a place to settle down and I leased some land and built a lovely villa on Koh Samui. I lived in the villa for almost two years but things were not perfect in paradise. The scams and rip offs slowly grind you down until you realise you are no longer enjoying yourself. I got tired of being continually ripped off by the Thais and I sold up. Now I holiday in Cambodia and Vietnam spending about two to three months in each. Although no place is perfect, I have found the other Asian countries I have spent time in to be considerably better than Thailand with respect to corruption and in your face rip offs. They are also much cheaper for almost everything.

Have you ever actually been to Thailand or any of these other countries? Everything you say is the opposite of my experiences and I have lived in Thailand for over 20 years as well as Vietnam for a short time and talked with many expats in Cambodia. I am really not sure if you are trolling, have had really bad luck, or - like many expats - just like complaining.

Edited June 14, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[slapout]

Samui seems to have a reputation for ripoffs even for the Thai's. A friend of mine has built a resort there with his Thai wife handling most of the goffer work, etc. She is from CM and says the locals just keep clipping her every time she turns around. The resort was to be a income generator for her and son when her husband died, (his idea) as well as having a house to live in. She has told him that after he is gone, she will probably sell, as she does not feel accepted there by the locals, as well as their perchance for ripping her off.

[Ulysses G.]

Samui seems to have a reputation for ripoffs even for the Thai's.

Maybe that is it. 

[Siam Simon]

We went for a short break to Chaweng (3 nights) about five or six years ago. We got a very strong impression that the place was run by gangsters. I talked about giving a different part of the island a try last year, but my wife was adamant that she will never set foot on Samui again.

[carmine]

Samui seems to have a reputation for ripoffs even for the Thai's.

Maybe that is it.

I think samuimans post was a well written honest appraisal. I also think UG might well be right. Samui is a one off in many degrees! he might have enjoyed, for example, Chiang Mai more. However i disagree with none of what he said.

I don't feel anything like the good vibes to invest my longterm future/retirement here and will pack up in the future and head for Brazil, with hopefully no ill feeling towards this place having enjoyed my stay.

[bkkjames]

here in the big smoke akak bangkok I noticed something odd lately.

Thai men in plain clothes sporting some kind of silver badge on a chain around their neck. Saw two within the last week. One was quite fat and the other normal weight? No guns or anything else to make them look like regular cops. Blue jeans and sunglasses

Saw one around Ploenchit as I was going for lunch last week and another one today on Suk Soi 8.

They weren't hassling vendors or anything - and they weren't tourist police looking to fine people for dropping their butts. Any ideas?

[hansum]

Ive been lazy and workshy all my life, but have a contract that gets me away from LOS soon (got a kid here so got to stay until then) and ive never looked forward to going to work so much in all my life so i can get a break from the place.

It does seem to have gone backwards in the 10yrs ive been coming, and the hatred from a significant section of Thais towards foreigners in tourist areas is astounding IMHO.

I always wonder why Thais who come to tourist areas to work dont <deleted> off back to where they come from if they cant send the sight of us.

[BigWheelMan]

samuiman

I liked the place enough to even pick a place to settle down and I leased some land and built a lovely villa on Koh Samui. I lived in the villa for almost two years but things were not perfect in paradise. The scams and rip offs slowly grind you down until you realise you are no longer enjoying yourself. I got tired of being continually ripped off by the Thais and I sold up. Now I holiday in Cambodia and Vietnam spending about two to three months in each. Although no place is perfect, I have found the other Asian countries I have spent time in to be considerably better than Thailand with respect to corruption and in your face rip offs. They are also much cheaper for almost everything.

Have you ever actually been to Thailand or any of these other countries? Everything you say is the opposite of my experiences and I have lived in Thailand for over 20 years as well as Vietnam for a short time and talked with many expats in Cambodia. I am really not sure if you are trolling, have had really bad luck, or - like many expats - just like complaining.

I am honoured. I thought it was only me you disliked and enjoyed insulting.

Why do you accuse the OP of trolling? You`re just plain nasty. I think this is an excellent thread, well thought out and probably mirrors the thoughts of many of us, including myself.

A note for the mods, again please note who is starting the throwing in of insults on this thread.

Must admit that I am beginning to think the same way, but I have no experience of Thailand`s neighbouring countries, so not really in a position to be able to compare Thailand with countries such as: Cambodia and Vietnam and I don`t know anyone personally who has ever lived in those countries on the long term.

Maybe if there are any members who live or have lived in these countries for a few years, could begin a thread and share the benefit of their experiences and what`s required visas etc, to be able to live there?

Edited June 15, 2010 by BigWheelMan

[bkkjames]

You will get ripped off in any country on the planet if people can find a way to do it.

Seems you spend a lot of money per year in LOS and that will be noted by many.

Are you referring to me Firebird?

[carmine]

Ive been lazy and workshy all my life, but have a contract that gets me away from LOS soon (got a kid here so got to stay until then) and ive never looked forward to going to work so much in all my life so i can get a break from the place.

It does seem to have gone backwards in the 10yrs ive been coming, and the hatred from a significant section of Thais towards foreigners in tourist areas is astounding IMHO.

I always wonder why Thais who come to tourist areas to work dont <deleted> off back to where they come from if they cant send the sight of us.

I see the hatred in a certain elements too but just ignore it. Frankly you'll see that in any country but it really seems to be on the rise in certain areas here.

They want their cake and eat it springs to mind.

[carmine]

samuiman

I liked the place enough to even pick a place to settle down and I leased some land and built a lovely villa on Koh Samui. I lived in the villa for almost two years but things were not perfect in paradise. The scams and rip offs slowly grind you down until you realise you are no longer enjoying yourself. I got tired of being continually ripped off by the Thais and I sold up. Now I holiday in Cambodia and Vietnam spending about two to three months in each. Although no place is perfect, I have found the other Asian countries I have spent time in to be considerably better than Thailand with respect to corruption and in your face rip offs. They are also much cheaper for almost everything.

Have you ever actually been to Thailand or any of these other countries? Everything you say is the opposite of my experiences and I have lived in Thailand for over 20 years as well as Vietnam for a short time and talked with many expats in Cambodia. I am really not sure if you are trolling, have had really bad luck, or - like many expats - just like complaining.

I am honoured. I thought it was only me you disliked and enjoyed insulting.

Why do you accuse the OP of trolling? You`re just plain nasty. I think this is an excellent thread, well thought out and probably mirrors the thoughts of many of us, including myself.

A note for the mods, again please note who is starting the throwing in of insults on this thread.

Must admit that I am beginning to think the same way, but I have no experience of Thailand`s neighbouring countries, so not really in a position to be able to compare Thailand with countries such as: Cambodia and Vietnam and I don`t know anyone personally who has ever lived in those countries on the long term.

Maybe if there are any members who live or have lived in these countries for a few years, could begin a thread and share the benefit of their experiences and what`s required visas etc, to be able to live there?

Nice one. This is an interesting thread. The OP offers a well balanced opinion.

[Ulysses G.]

I am honoured. I thought it was only me you disliked and enjoyed insulting.

Why do you accuse the OP of trolling? You`re just plain nasty.

Actually, I have nothing against you. It is only certain of your posts that I disagree with - like the one on another thread where, for some reason,  you claim a very clean medical facility is "dirty" in order to push your favorite place.

However, you are often quite "nasty" yourself, so it is interesting that you get so defensive and go crying to the mods when someone is not so nice to you .

About the OP. I just think he is completely wrong and have met plenty of expats who complain about the same things in these other countries. If he had been specific about Koh Samui, I might not have commented, because I have only visited, but have not lived there. However, he is generalizing about Thailand in general and IMHO he is way off the mark.

[Berkshire]

samuiman

I liked the place enough to even pick a place to settle down and I leased some land and built a lovely villa on Koh Samui. I lived in the villa for almost two years but things were not perfect in paradise. The scams and rip offs slowly grind you down until you realise you are no longer enjoying yourself. I got tired of being continually ripped off by the Thais and I sold up. Now I holiday in Cambodia and Vietnam spending about two to three months in each. Although no place is perfect, I have found the other Asian countries I have spent time in to be considerably better than Thailand with respect to corruption and in your face rip offs. They are also much cheaper for almost everything.

Have you ever actually been to Thailand or any of these other countries? Everything you say is the opposite of my experiences and I have lived in Thailand for over 20 years as well as Vietnam for a short time and talked with many expats in Cambodia. I am really not sure if you are trolling, have had really bad luck, or - like many expats - just like complaining.

I am honoured. I thought it was only me you disliked and enjoyed insulting.

Why do you accuse the OP of trolling? You`re just plain nasty. I think this is an excellent thread, well thought out and probably mirrors the thoughts of many of us, including myself.

A note for the mods, again please note who is starting the throwing in of insults on this thread.

Must admit that I am beginning to think the same way, but I have no experience of Thailand`s neighbouring countries, so not really in a position to be able to compare Thailand with countries such as: Cambodia and Vietnam and I don`t know anyone personally who has ever lived in those countries on the long term.

Maybe if there are any members who live or have lived in these countries for a few years, could begin a thread and share the benefit of their experiences and what`s required visas etc, to be able to live there?

Nice one. This is an interesting thread. The OP offers a well balanced opinion.

"Well balanced?" Are you high? This is one man's completely subjective opinion based on his own personal experiences and interpretation of said experiences. I'm with Ulysses G on this one. Why is it that certain individuals seem to get ripped off at every turn while others go through their lives just as normal as can be? Honestly, is the OP the exception or the rule? No matter, the OP is gone. And frankly, I hope others would be sold on other destinations such as Vietnam, Cambodia, PI....wherever. It's amazing that so many have complained (and some allegedly have left), yet, so many more come and stay. If Thailand sucks so bad, why do we have more and more expats every year? Why, why, why?

[carmine]

No Berkshire, i'm offering an opinion as i think you were attempting to do too

[Berkshire]

No Berkshire, i'm offering an opinion as i think you were attempting to do too

Well in that case, I respectfully disagree.

[ExpatJ]

"Vietnam and Cambodia considerably better than Thailand with respect to corruption"

The OP could not be more wrong. According to any reputable study you care to name , Cambodia and Vietnam are FAR more corrupt than Thailand (transparency international ranks Thailand 84, Vietnam 120, Cambodia 158th). The facilities and living standards for expats in Cambodia and Vietnam are also terrible compared to Thailand (unless you enjoy poor electricity and water supply, Rwanda/Sudan building quality, terrible medical facilities, no access to most western food products or luxuries).

I think part of the issue is that Thailand would be quite happy to alienate a certain type of tourist /expat and be quite happy to forgo $$ that these farangs bring into the country- in the mean time no harm in trying to scam them as whats the worst that can happen? they leave? Great.

I know many expats and for some reason its always the dodgier, cheap "by god im not paying 10 baht extra for this bowl of noodles/enter this park/beer" skates , tats/skin head, "i was in the special forces", football shirt wearing, expats/tourists who are getting scammed; i rarely hear those with real jobs and who interact with Thais without enormous chips on their shoulders complaining about being scammed....

Edited June 15, 2010 by ExpatJ

[andyww]

Rip-offs in Thailand occur regardless of whether the person is a Farang or not. It simply depends on how much money you have available for extraction by the rip-off merchants.

Rich Thais get exactly the same. The only way most of the rip-offs can be avoided is to have "connections". My wifes family are constantly being targeted. At one point one of their family was kidnapped which is not funny at all. If they had not had the right connections the Police would have done naff all.

Another factor in all of this is respect of Farangs by the Thais. In places such as Samui where so many Farangs turn up to simply get off their heads at full-moon parties and generally behave like dicks, its not difficult to understand why the locals have little respect for the average Farang, even if they are perfectly respectable as the OP no doubt is.

One of the worst things about Pattaya is the way in which some Farangs treat the Thais.

In other places such as Chaing Mai where the Farangs tend to be better behaved there will be a greater degree of respect in general so a better attitude from the Thais. In Vietnam/Cambodia the dick-head brigade have not arrived (yet).

[hansum]

In Cambodia the dick-head brigade have not arrived (yet).

yes they have Phon Penh has more weirdo foreigners per capita then anywhere ... its just theyre not there in as great numbers. I think this is down to lack of cheap direct flights.

[alfieconn]

"

Well balanced?" Are you high? This is one man's completely subjective opinion based on his own personal experiences and interpretation of said experiences. I'm with Ulysses G on this one. Why is it that certain individuals seem to get ripped off at every turn while others go through their lives just as normal as can be? Honestly, is the OP the exception or the rule? No matter, the OP is gone. And frankly, I hope others would be sold on other destinations such as Vietnam, Cambodia, PI....wherever. It's amazing that so many have complained (and some allegedly have left), yet, so many more come and stay. If Thailand sucks so bad, why do we have more and more expats every year? Why, why, why?

There's nothing like stating the obvious

I think a lot of people experiences are determined by where they have lived in Thailand and what sort of life they have lived in Thailand. I.E bought a car, leased/bought land and built a house, children going to school, dealt with government offices etc.

You can bet your life that Berkshire and UG haven't done too much of the above and if they had they might be of a different opinion.

Edited June 15, 2010 by alfieconn

[alfieconn]

Another factor in all of this is respect of Farangs by the Thais. In places such as Samui where so many Farangs turn up to simply get off their heads at full-moon parties and generally behave like dicks, its not difficult to understand why the locals have little respect for the average Farang, even if they are perfectly respectable as the OP no doubt is.

One of the worst things about Pattaya is the way in which some Farangs treat the Thais.

To come out with a post like this i take it that you have never lived on Samui (why comment on a place that you know nothing about) where 90% of the people i know are well repected people generally over 50.

The people you describe are not the sort of people who generally live on Samui and they are not the ones that get turned over.

[IMA_FARANG]

Your "I'm a Farang and naturally superior to all Thais" attitude really shows, doesn't it?

I've lived long in enough in Thailand to realise the many problems of living there...but I also have a lot of Thai friends who have been known to come to my aid at times I needed help. Perhaps that is because I do not call Farangs "us" and Thais "them".

Anyhow, I hope you enjoy Vietnam. Ask "Gary Glitter" (as his stage name once was) how he enjoyed it? But I guess he's back in the U.K. now after his little sojurn in a Vietnamese jail. Something about an underage Vietnamese girl and her parents trying to extort around a million pounds out of him not to report him to the Vietnamese authorities, wasn't that it?