Can Thailand Really Do Anything Else To Alienate The Tourists And Expats?

[scotbeve]

You will get ripped off in any country on the planet if people can find a way to do it.

Seems you spend a lot of money per year in LOS and that will be noted by many.

To be honest, I generally would be extremely more wary in the P.I. or Indo.... hands down!

[jobsworth]

here in the big smoke akak bangkok I noticed something odd lately.

Thai men in plain clothes sporting some kind of silver badge on a chain around their neck. Saw two within the last week. One was quite fat and the other normal weight? No guns or anything else to make them look like regular cops. Blue jeans and sunglasses

Saw one around Ploenchit as I was going for lunch last week and another one today on Suk Soi 8.

They weren't hassling vendors or anything - and they weren't tourist police looking to fine people for dropping their butts. Any ideas?

Sounds like fundamentalist Christians from World Vision.

Google "Gang Stalking".

Watch your back!

[Ulysses G.]

 Many guys can't leave Thailand. In fact If they took away the toilet paper the aircon, the farang food, the cold beer and especially the hookers - 90% of guys would be gone tomorrow,

Yes, maybe, but that applies to any developing (hot) country. 

[Garry9999]

here in the big smoke akak bangkok I noticed something odd lately.

Thai men in plain clothes sporting some kind of silver badge on a chain around their neck. Saw two within the last week. One was quite fat and the other normal weight? No guns or anything else to make them look like regular cops. Blue jeans and sunglasses

Saw one around Ploenchit as I was going for lunch last week and another one today on Suk Soi 8.

They weren't hassling vendors or anything - and they weren't tourist police looking to fine people for dropping their butts. Any ideas?

Fashion Police?

[Navalator]

No Berkshire, i'm offering an opinion as i think you were attempting to do too

Well in that case, I respectfully disagree.

Well, here is another opinion. I think that Phuket is just as much a shit hole as is Samui. There seems to be a national mentality to drive out the tourist trade from Thiland which will impair thousands of Thai who depend upon the industry. Corruption is part and parcel of the very fiber of Thailand as it is evident even in children playing in school. There is no hope for Thailand so the best advice is to enjoy it while you can. The country is beyond reforming itself. In a few years it will be declared a failed state. In the meantime let the thugs ruin Phuket and Samui completely killing the tourist trade. Only then will they have each other to exploit and perhaps it will lead to them killing each other over crumbs.

[Navalator]

here in the big smoke akak bangkok I noticed something odd lately.

Thai men in plain clothes sporting some kind of silver badge on a chain around their neck. Saw two within the last week. One was quite fat and the other normal weight? No guns or anything else to make them look like regular cops. Blue jeans and sunglasses

Saw one around Ploenchit as I was going for lunch last week and another one today on Suk Soi 8.

They weren't hassling vendors or anything - and they weren't tourist police looking to fine people for dropping their butts. Any ideas?

Sounds like fundamentalist Christians from World Vision.

Google "Gang Stalking".

Watch your back!

The fundamentalist Christians from World Vision do not dress that way. They try to blend into the environment while they stalk to entrap westerners (especially Americans) through false accusations of pedophilia forwarded to American immigration who pays them for this "service". They are a nasty and evil minded lot hiding under the Bible and wrapping themselves in the flag. To them any older man with a younger man is automatically a pervert subject to being reported and harassed by immigration upon reentry to the U.S. But then again, they very well may be World Vision thugs.

[zthyadat]

If they read this post I am sure they can form a commission to come up with new and innovative ways to alienate people and lose potential visitors.

They already have - it's called the TAT.

[IanForbes]

Many guys can't leave Thailand. In fact If they took away the toilet paper the aircon, the farang food, the cold beer and especially the hookers - 90% of guys would be gone tomorrow,

Yes, maybe, but that applies to any developing (hot) country.

Oh so true, Ulysses. I was going to comment on the same sentence in the same way.

Bangkokburning does have some valid points, though, and he stated them well.

Different people have different values, and some have more tolerance that others over certain issues. Take away my lovely ladies and I probably wouldn't be back. That time is coming soon enough.

[mark45y]

Many guys can't leave Thailand. In fact If they took away the toilet paper the aircon, the farang food, the cold beer and especially the hookers - 90% of guys would be gone tomorrow,

Yes, maybe, but that applies to any developing (hot) country.

Oh so true, Ulysses. I was going to comment on the same sentence in the same way.

Bangkokburning does have some valid points, though, and he stated them well.

Different people have different values, and some have more tolerance that others over certain issues. Take away my lovely ladies and I probably wouldn't be back. That time is coming soon enough.

Toilet paper have not used it in 5 years, butt gun you know is better. Aircon I replaced by a towel around my neck. Used the same system 35 years ago in the army here. I cook at home almost every day. Hookers! Hookers are for newbies.

[caf]

I am honoured. I thought it was only me you disliked and enjoyed insulting.

Why do you accuse the OP of trolling? You`re just plain nasty.

Actually, I have nothing against you. It is only certain of your posts that I disagree with - like the one on another thread where, for some reason,  you claim a very clean medical facility is "dirty" in order to push your favorite place.

However, you are often quite "nasty" yourself, so it is interesting that you get so defensive and go crying to the mods when someone is not so nice to you .

About the OP. I just think he is completely wrong and have met plenty of expats who complain about the same things in these other countries. If he had been specific about Koh Samui, I might not have commented, because I have only visited, but have not lived there. However, he is generalizing about Thailand in general and IMHO he is way off the mark.

Ulysses, don't you realise that some posters, me included i am afraid, do get the perception that you angle for a fight quite a lot. You may have been here 20 years but the op is echoing what many have said on this forum.

There are scams here for sure; sometimes they can be dealt with, sometimes you can't. And there are some really good and honest Thais. Could you honestly claim in your 20 years here that lawyers give farang particularly a fair deal? The justice system - have you experience of that? Police tea money?

There are many positive things about Thailand and I personally think they outweigh the downsides, but please let other posters make their points about the negative aspects. If you want to criticise do so positively.

[elkangorito]

Can Thailand Really Do Anything Else To Alienate The Tourists And Expats?

No. Thailand is excelling at this.

Edited June 20, 2010 by elkangorito

[Ulysses G.]

U.G. too is not as omnipotent and all-knowing as he (and occasionally others) makes him out to be - he's made a few misjudgements in his time that I can remember from my decade in CM, some purely business, others more social or cultural, nothing major, but much discussed at the time.  Selective memory seems to be an occasional problem with our esteemed used literature vendor.

I've made many mistakes in my life and I would guess that you have too. However, as far as I can remember, I have never been approached for a bribe by a government official and I have never been cheated by any Thai that I have done business with. That is the subject that we have been discussing here I'm pretty sure. 

[Foggy Bottom]

I am of the opinion that everything in Thailand regarding foreigners is geared toward marrying off lower income women to them.

The foreign business laws , immigration laws ..

And I think a lot of those replying here are not making the distinction about having a Thai spouse, ( usually a woman as most here are male ) to act as buffer, or not.

I am a woman and I have no buffer and I do a lot of crying in frustration as I can't seem to get a fair price for anything.

As I am not about to marry for convenience and having no Thai partners that are trustworythy with 51% of 2 million of my money , can't open a business like I believed was easy to do .

I like it here WHEN I am NOT dealing with Thais, Yes I live on Phuket.

Go to www.boi.go.th

Look for the link for "activities eligible for promotion privileges" (it might have been renamed but the meaning will be the same)

There are several lists to check - one of them is called something like "high priority activities" - it basically lists the business activities that foreigners are encouraged to start and in which they can have 100% ownership regardless of business entity type (sole-trader, partnership, Ltd Co etc). There's usually some interesting ideas in there that most westerners can undertake with just a little additional familiarisation in the topic.

Hope it helps

Foggy

[Foggy Bottom]

U.G. too is not as omnipotent and all-knowing as he (and occasionally others) makes him out to be - he's made a few misjudgements in his time that I can remember from my decade in CM, some purely business, others more social or cultural, nothing major, but much discussed at the time.  Selective memory seems to be an occasional problem with our esteemed used literature vendor.

I've made many mistakes in my life and I would guess that you have too. However, as far as I can remember, I have never been approached for a bribe by a government official and I have never been cheated by any Thai that I have done business with. That is the subject that we have been discussing here I'm pretty sure. 

As you are no doubt aware, there are many ways to ask for a bribe - verbally and with sign language (left hand holding a document being scrutinised, right hand relaxed but open and upturned beside the document, etc). Also, where foreigners are concerned, the bribe is rarely directly touted but comes through a third party - such as a lawyer listing "incidentals" on their invoice. Given the scale of your business (quantity of locations) I'd be very surprised if you hadn't paid a bribe somewhere down the line (even if unknowingly) especially if you are still importing job lots of used books - Abhisit and Thaksin both publicly acknowledged Thai Customs as the most corrupt of all civil servants in the Kingdom.

You can be pedantic about it all you like, about having genuine accounts for every penny paid, but if some of those receipts have non-detailed amounts on them, there's likely a bribe or two in your accounts somewhere - as I said, even if you didn't realise it, or try to ignore it.

Foggy

[Ulysses G.]

You certainly could be right - I guess - but that could be true anywhere. I might have paid unasked-for bribes in every country I have ever been in, but I have never knowingly been asked for a bribe here. These things do not seem to be as out of control as some posters have suggested.

Edited June 20, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[andyww]

situations such as car dealerships not displaying windscreen prices, and real estate owners simply asking whatever they think they can get,

In which country do car dealerships display definitive prices or real-estate owners NOT ask whatever they think they can get?

[t.s]

i question the intelligence of an individual who posts his phone number on thaivisa.

As to the anonymous coward publishing personal information, you are not worthy of any consideration.

why not grind your axe in person?

[philw]

i question the intelligence of an individual who posts his phone number on thaivisa.

As to the anonymous coward publishing personal information, you are not worthy of any consideration.

why not grind your axe in person?

Thanks for your response.

He can't.

Re disclosing my phone number, I have nothing to hide and invite human contact.

It will be interesting to see the response.

Phil

[andyc2006]

Have you ever actually been to Thailand or any of these other countries? Everything you say is the opposite of my experiences and I have lived in Thailand for over 20 years as well as Vietnam for a short time and talked with many expats in Cambodia. I am really not sure if you are trolling, have had really bad luck, or - like many expats - just like complaining.

He's had the handle "samuiman" on a Thai board for 6 years. If his post was trolling and he's never been to Thailand, he certainly plans in advance.

As for my 2 cents: samuiman echo'd my sentiments. Lived in Thailand for (only) 2 years, then 6 months ago returned to my home country (don't worry, didn't let the door hit my ass on the way out), happily. Much easier for me to appreciate the US now... no matter how ridiculous something is here, I can always compare it to something in Thailand to get my spirit up a bit.

I can finally enjoy a decent wine at a decent price, my (Thai) wife received her permanent residence the day we landed (still get a chuckle reading the topic about the 2006 PR applicants -- feel for them, but can't help but laugh at the absurdity) and doesn't have to report or do visa runs, she's charged the same price as locals every where she goes, etc... the list of Thai annoyances is eternal... no point going on.

To answer the OP's query, "can thailand really do anything else...?" In my limited experience, yes they can, and yes they will. The only reason I clicked on this topic (of the 30 or 40 headlines from thaivisa.com that I get in email each week) is that it mirrored what I found myself asking all last year: "does Thailand actually have any more nails to hammer into its own coffin?" And the answer was always found in the next headline... "Yes!" I don't believe I'm alone amongst expats who first perceive it as unbelievable, then expected, then comical/absurd.

[cdnvic]

Foggy, you may want to re-read the forum rules, particularly this one:

19) Not to post other members' personal details, photos or web site details. Doing so will result in an instant ban.

This time it's a warning. Next time I will follow the rules.

[bangkokburning]

Navalator

I have never been in Phuket city but can tell you the bus station is the most rat infested scum pit of dodgy-dans I have encountered in Thailand.

Honestly - If you want anything approaching a lovely experience in Thailand. It has to include camping.

Hey how about this one....the hassles and the hoops to disallow you claim your VAT refund at the airport and al the fine print prior. There is a sign at the airport like....getting angry at the official is breaking Thai law. So ...so many people have become irate that they put up a sign!

Thailand is quickly turning into Greece but can't yet compare to Phils. Phils is just a mess and often involves police directly in shakedown. REALLY dangerous. That is not to say cops are not involved ...(cigarette in the street scam, jet ski broken scam, no passport come with me scam, airport stolen goods scam).

Nothing will change - Thailand has farmor pressing issues and they have new fresh meat from India and Taiwan (and China). This is how they roll...next victim errrrr tourist

[Berkshire]

Have you ever actually been to Thailand or any of these other countries? Everything you say is the opposite of my experiences and I have lived in Thailand for over 20 years as well as Vietnam for a short time and talked with many expats in Cambodia. I am really not sure if you are trolling, have had really bad luck, or - like many expats - just like complaining.

He's had the handle "samuiman" on a Thai board for 6 years. If his post was trolling and he's never been to Thailand, he certainly plans in advance.

As for my 2 cents: samuiman echo'd my sentiments. Lived in Thailand for (only) 2 years, then 6 months ago returned to my home country (don't worry, didn't let the door hit my ass on the way out), happily. Much easier for me to appreciate the US now... no matter how ridiculous something is here, I can always compare it to something in Thailand to get my spirit up a bit.

I can finally enjoy a decent wine at a decent price, my (Thai) wife received her permanent residence the day we landed (still get a chuckle reading the topic about the 2006 PR applicants -- feel for them, but can't help but laugh at the absurdity) and doesn't have to report or do visa runs, she's charged the same price as locals every where she goes, etc... the list of Thai annoyances is eternal... no point going on.

To answer the OP's query, "can thailand really do anything else...?" In my limited experience, yes they can, and yes they will. The only reason I clicked on this topic (of the 30 or 40 headlines from thaivisa.com that I get in email each week) is that it mirrored what I found myself asking all last year: "does Thailand actually have any more nails to hammer into its own coffin?" And the answer was always found in the next headline... "Yes!" I don't believe I'm alone amongst expats who first perceive it as unbelievable, then expected, then comical/absurd.

Firstly, congrats on your decision to return to your home country. I'm sure you're convinced that it was the right decision, otherwise you'd be full of regret that you'd never live down. So I'm sure it's important to you personally to convince yourself and anyone else that would listen. But contrary to what you think, there appears to be many more "less informed" expats coming to Thailand than leaving. I just started a thread discussing that very thing. I'm sure there's nothing that would make you happier than for others to chime in about how terrible Thailand is and how right you were to leave, but I'm sorry, I can't jump on your bandwagon. My life's pretty darn good in Thailand.

[Pacificperson]

In other places such as Chaing Mai where the Farangs tend to be better behaved there will be a greater degree of respect in general so a better attitude from the Thais.

I agree what andwww has implied. Respect has to be earned,and too many idiots don't behave in a manner that deserves respect.

Second, if you show-up with lots of cash and behave like an idiot, expect to be treated like one.

Finally, the Thai put up with us for their benefit. If you don't find the benefit mutual in LOS, then look for a place where it is.

[dumball]

andyWW asked what country posts prices for cars and realestate , CANADA does , car dealers new and used send out weekly flyers and advertise in newspapers etc , with prices clearly printed for all to see .

There is a consumer protection law in the province of Ontario , not widely known or advertised , any one making a sale or not providing a service as stipulated , is required to return all funds and possible exteranious expenses to the purchaser in Question . I had a series of computers supplied to replace each successive defective one , finally asked for my money back , was informed of company policy "We can only give a credit slip for the purchase of other goods in any of our stores "

I contacted the government office with my predicament , was informed of consumer protection policy "Should the store in question refuse to refund ALL of your money in full within 24 hours , send us a formal , detailed complaint , we will lock up the store and do a thorough check of its buisness dealings for the last 12 months "

I phoned the head office with this minor detail , within the hour , the offending store phoned me to say my full refund was awaiting collection at the service counter .

Do you now appreciate why some of us get somewhat perturbed at the treatment received in Thailand ????????

[Pacificperson]

andyWW asked what country posts prices for cars and realestate , CANADA does , car dealers new and used send out weekly flyers and advertise in newspapers etc , with prices clearly printed for all to see .

There is a consumer protection law in the province of Ontario , not widely known or advertised , any one making a sale or not providing a service as stipulated , is required to return all funds and possible exteranious expenses to the purchaser in Question . I had a series of computers supplied to replace each successive defective one , finally asked for my money back , was informed of company policy "We can only give a credit slip for the purchase of other goods in any of our stores "

I contacted the government office with my predicament , was informed of consumer protection policy "Should the store in question refuse to refund ALL of your money in full within 24 hours , send us a formal , detailed complaint , we will lock up the store and do a thorough check of its buisness dealings for the last 12 months "

I phoned the head office with this minor detail , within the hour , the offending store phoned me to say my full refund was awaiting collection at the service counter .

Do you now appreciate why some of us get somewhat perturbed at the treatment received in Thailand ????????

These price are firm, non-negotiable?

[dumball]

It has been my experience that practically any thing for sale , other than in major/convenience stores , have a negotiable price which can come in various forms , real estate for instance , have offer forms that can be submitted to the agent for perusal by the owner , for a lower price or for something to be left on the property , car/motor-cycle traders/dealers wiil throw in a service or an accessory of some nature , others give a 'Buy one get one free' . It all comes down to "If you do not ask , you will never receive".

[mahtin]

car/motor-cycle traders/dealers wiil throw in a service or an accessory of some nature

Right, was really happy with the one size fits all Thais jacket and joke helmet:lol:

[dumball]

Have you ever gone to buy a motor-cycle helmet ? The shop owners have no idea when you start talking about proper fitting of a helmet , they seem more intent in over-sizing to keep your hair pretty .

[taninthai]

andyWW asked what country posts prices for cars and realestate , CANADA does , car dealers new and used send out weekly flyers and advertise in newspapers etc , with prices clearly printed for all to see .

There is a consumer protection law in the province of Ontario , not widely known or advertised , any one making a sale or not providing a service as stipulated , is required to return all funds and possible exteranious expenses to the purchaser in Question . I had a series of computers supplied to replace each successive defective one , finally asked for my money back , was informed of company policy "We can only give a credit slip for the purchase of other goods in any of our stores "

I contacted the government office with my predicament , was informed of consumer protection policy "Should the store in question refuse to refund ALL of your money in full within 24 hours , send us a formal , detailed complaint , we will lock up the store and do a thorough check of its buisness dealings for the last 12 months "

I phoned the head office with this minor detail , within the hour , the offending store phoned me to say my full refund was awaiting collection at the service counter .

Do you now appreciate why some of us get somewhat perturbed at the treatment received in Thailand ????????

thailand has consumer protection google ocpb

i actually bought a car 7 months ago then found out clock had been wound back 63,000 km took the car back to dealer and he took car \back from us after 2 hr chat and mention of ocpb

admit we lost 60,000 bht but then i had the use off a 4x4 toyota hilux for 7 months

its not all bad just keep level head and dont shout and wave your arms around.

[andyww]

There is a consumer protection law in the province of Ontario , not widely known or advertised , any one making a sale or not providing a service as stipulated , is required to return all funds and possible exteranious expenses to the purchaser in Question

According to Stickman, the nationality with the most reported incidences of being scammed by bar-girls is Canadian. maybe they are all trying to enforce this rule against the BGs?