Can Thailand Really Do Anything Else To Alienate The Tourists And Expats?

[MrJohnson]

We went for a short break to Chaweng (3 nights) about five or six years ago. We got a very strong impression that the place was run by gangsters. I talked about giving a different part of the island a try last year, but my wife was adamant that she will never set foot on Samui again.

Went to Samui in 1994 - the last time and never again. Full of mafia and not representative of Thailand in general. Sounds like the OP is tarring the whole country with the 'Samui' brush. Been here over ten years - but must be living in a parallel but totally different universe to the OP. The OP moved on and now happier so good luck to him.

[philw]

Very nice UG but sorry I find it impossible to accept your statement.

I own a factory employing currently 35 staff, previously owned 2 BOI approved companies,one with over 280 staff and have I lived here for 22 years.

Very sorry but I find it very difficult to believe you.

Every, repeat every, Thai person I have employed with even minor responsibility for cash control, i have caught stealing.

A 100% hit rate. ( probably about the same as Liverpool, I admit )

The never ending hits, scams, distractions, deliberate obstructions, stupidities, Staff dramas, incompetence and just simple Thai bloody mindedness are a constant distraction to the creation of a real business.

It would be a very stupid businessman who did not look at Thailand with a jaundiced eye.

Among the contacts I have in my industry nobody ( American, European, Japanese, Taiwanese, Singaporean or Chinese ) takes Thailand seriously.

I suspect your glasses are overly rosy and I regret that, in my opinion, the prognosis for Thailand is bad and getting worse.

I certainly do not believe your statement that you have never been " ripped off in 20 years ", unless you live in a bunker surrounded by cotton wool.

Ph

I can't vouch for the validity of UG's statement but he is a sponsor on Thai visa and is running a successful business.

If you have a 100% hit rate on dishonest staff you are either a really bad judge of character or very unlucky

I do think the strenght of the baht is hurting tourism and exports at the moment.

What the hel_l is this supposed to mean? Are you suggesting everyone in Liverpool is a thief?

I was with you all the way until this point, certain posters do talk <deleted> and believe that just because they believe they have never been scammed means it NEVER happens to anyone else, or if it does happen to you then it's you fault. These people need to get lives away from their computers and get out in the real world.

I'm from Liverpool, I was attempting to make a joke .

Sorry.

ph

[Ulysses G.]

is the post I have quoted originally two separate posts from 2 different posters?

Yes, the second poster was commenting on the earlier post, but the quote function must not have worked correctly. It could easily look like one post if one did not realize this.

[mrtoad]

What the hel_l is this supposed to mean? Are you suggesting everyone in Liverpool is a thief?

I was with you all the way until this point, certain posters do talk <deleted> and believe that just because they believe they have never been scammed means it NEVER happens to anyone else, or if it does happen to you then it's you fault. These people need to get lives away from their computers and get out in the real world.

I'm from Liverpool, I was attempting to make a joke .

Sorry.

ph

I think most people would have spotted that it was a joke

[Berkshire]

What the hel_l is this supposed to mean? Are you suggesting everyone in Liverpool is a thief?

I was with you all the way until this point, certain posters do talk <deleted> and believe that just because they believe they have never been scammed means it NEVER happens to anyone else, or if it does happen to you then it's you fault. These people need to get lives away from their computers and get out in the real world.

I'm from Liverpool, I was attempting to make a joke .

Sorry.

ph

I think most people would have spotted that it was a joke

Well this little dialogue is actually quite revealing. Phil was harmlessly joking that folks from Liverpool are thieves and TW practically blows his lid. Yet, the blokes on this thread are suggesting that all Thai's are corrupt and dishonest based on experiences with an extremely minute sampling of Thai's, and these same blokes are ok with that. Do you see the contradiction?

[buddy]

"Vietnam and Cambodia considerably better than Thailand with respect to corruption"

The OP could not be more wrong. According to any reputable study you care to name , Cambodia and Vietnam are FAR more corrupt than Thailand (transparency international ranks Thailand 84, Vietnam 120, Cambodia 158th). The facilities and living standards for expats in Cambodia and Vietnam are also terrible compared to Thailand (unless you enjoy poor electricity and water supply, Rwanda/Sudan building quality, terrible medical facilities, no access to most western food products or luxuries).

I think part of the issue is that Thailand would be quite happy to alienate a certain type of tourist /expat and be quite happy to forgo $$ that these farangs bring into the country- in the mean time no harm in trying to scam them as whats the worst that can happen? they leave? Great.

I know many expats and for some reason its always the dodgier, cheap "by god im not paying 10 baht extra for this bowl of noodles/enter this park/beer" skates , tats/skin head, "i was in the special forces", football shirt wearing, expats/tourists who are getting scammed; i rarely hear those with real jobs and who interact with Thais without enormous chips on their shoulders complaining about being scammed....

Heres one complaint that many don't consider from an Expat that is working legally for a Western Multi-National in Thailand.

Having paid in millions of Baht in Thai taxes over the years, I as a Falang cannot expect to receive any entitlements in return for my substantial Tax contributions from the Thai Government...its all take take take.

Indeed when my employment contract ends I have only 7 days to leave the Country.

So its Thank you Falang for the money and knowledge/technology transfer, now piss off back where you came from.

No reciprocation if you look at how a Thai National working legally in the UK and paying UK taxes for 8 plus years is treated by way of entitlements.

Besides that Thailand, Sanook Sanook.

[carmine]

Not believing me is your prerogative, but as far as I am aware it is true (it is possible that the girl at 7/11 might have short-changed me once or twice). I certainly have never had a Thai official or a Thai that I do business with try to ask for a bribe or cheat me for anything - which is really my point.

I would say that makes you a rare commodity.

[tonywebster]

What the hel_l is this supposed to mean? Are you suggesting everyone in Liverpool is a thief?

I was with you all the way until this point, certain posters do talk <deleted> and believe that just because they believe they have never been scammed means it NEVER happens to anyone else, or if it does happen to you then it's you fault. These people need to get lives away from their computers and get out in the real world.

I'm from Liverpool, I was attempting to make a joke .

Sorry.

ph

I think most people would have spotted that it was a joke

Well this little dialogue is actually quite revealing. Phil was harmlessly joking that folks from Liverpool are thieves and TW practically blows his lid. Yet, the blokes on this thread are suggesting that all Thai's are corrupt and dishonest based on experiences with an extremely minute sampling of Thai's, and these same blokes are ok with that. Do you see the contradiction?

I must have missed the part where I blew my lid.

Phil it's bad enough with <deleted> playing on the stereotype mate without us needing to do it to ourselves, if I had known you were from Liverpool I would have seen it as tongue in cheek and having a dig at these <deleted> rather than as some outsider playing on 1980's stereotypes.

As for contradiction, I have not contradicted myself in the slightest, if you care to read my posts in this thread you will see that Berkshire, but now I am wondering of there is any need for 'shire' on the end of your name.

mrtoad, what fantastic insight you have, maybe you already knew the poster was from Liverpool.

Edited June 16, 2010 by tonywebster

[ExpatJ]

samuiman

I liked the place enough to even pick a place to settle down and I leased some land and built a lovely villa on Koh Samui. I lived in the villa for almost two years but things were not perfect in paradise. The scams and rip offs slowly grind you down until you realise you are no longer enjoying yourself. I got tired of being continually ripped off by the Thais and I sold up. Now I holiday in Cambodia and Vietnam spending about two to three months in each. Although no place is perfect, I have found the other Asian countries I have spent time in to be considerably better than Thailand with respect to corruption and in your face rip offs. They are also much cheaper for almost everything.

Have you ever actually been to Thailand or any of these other countries? Everything you say is the opposite of my experiences and I have lived in Thailand for over 20 years as well as Vietnam for a short time and talked with many expats in Cambodia. I am really not sure if you are trolling, have had really bad luck, or - like many expats - just like complaining.

Ulysses G........you always say the same thing..........and then I respond with pretty much the same thing.

We have both been here for similar periods (me longer).

We have both traveled all over the region.

But I just do not get where you are coming from.......it is like you are ignoring the real and growing problems in Thailand: corruption, stealing, lying, xenophobia (especially with regard to how they are playing the immigration/visa cards these days).

Maybe you are a huge optimist who refuses to come down from that high.

I can assure you the OP is not a Troll. Many expats and tourists are disappointed with what has been happening here.

Cambodia? I have always found them to be much nicer than Thais.......I never have been fearful of crime............no xenophobia............no problems at all with the police and immigration.

Does Cambodia have a problem with corruption. Sure. So does the USA.

I just think, and many others do too, that corruption is now part of Thai culture.........almost the "thing to do." It is like a culturally accepted game.

Back to the topic: They have done virtually everything imaginable to alienate tourists and expats, especially over the past ten years.

It was first disguised as security (the lets get the bad guys crap). Then it morphed into security PLUS social engineering (the quality tourist/expat crap).

Then they move on to attack mixed race families............why? Xenophobia is the only answer.

What surprises me is the guy who started this is no longer in power.......he is a wanted terrorist.

Why the new guy does not do something to reverse all of the damage done in the past is a mystery to me.........maybe he is too busy with other things.

Sometimes I wish all of us would stop arguing, get on the same page, sell all of our assets, and leave..........no more spending money or supporting honeys in Thailand-Titanic.

That would send them a big message.

Im afraid you and the OP asre in denial about corruption- corruption is far far far worse in Cambodia than Thailand. According to any reputable study you care to name , Cambodia and Vietnam are FAR more corrupt than Thailand (transparency international ranks Thailand 84, Vietnam 120, Cambodia 158th). The facilities and living standards for expats in Cambodia and Vietnam are also terrible compared to Thailand (unless you enjoy poor electricity and water supply, Rwanda/Sudan building quality, terrible medical facilities, no access to most western food products or luxuries).

If you have some study, data that shows otherwise im happy to change my mind.

[ExpatJ]

expatJ , you have written the most off base post I have read in all my time with TV , youi have no idea what so ever what it is like to live in Cambodia as an xpat none .

considering the state the country was in after KR , they have made tremendous steps forward into the future whilst Thailand , at minumum , has stagnated for at least the past 10 years , alienating more and more Westerners as time goes by . Their building standards are good but maybe could be improved , have not seen any collapsing or catching fire and killing numerous people , as to the water supply . In a recent report , Cambodia was awarded the stockholm water industry award for 2010 for consistant supply of potable water with a minimal loss of only 5to9%

The medical facilities are improving and a new up to date hospital is in proccess of being built , accident victims are not 'Tossed wily nily ' into the back of a pick-up truck , but transported in one of many AMBULANCES to the hospital by trained staff , there is free medical available for the poor which has also improved in the 5 years I have been here . There is a huge dentistry building with 100 treatment rooms where any one can go to get first class treatment from zero to low cost , I have first hand knowledge of this , upper plate for $120.00 and I am on the upper charge scale .

I spend plenty of time in Cambodia starting from when it was still common to hear gun fights in PP at night in the early 90s. Good news about the water award, good for them. Sure medical facilities are improving but they are nothing like what can be found in Thailand. Corruption is still MUCH worse in Cambodia than Thailand.

I see your post to me was edited due to 'flaming'- my advice would be not to get so worked up in online discussion forums. Life's too short dude.

[Berkshire]

I must have missed the part where I blew my lid.

Phil it's bad enough with <deleted> playing on the stereotype mate without us needing to do it to ourselves, if I had known you were from Liverpool I would have seen it as tongue in cheek and having a dig at these <deleted> rather than as some outsider playing on 1980's stereotypes.

As for contradiction, I have not contradicted myself in the slightest, if you care to read my posts in this thread you will see that Berkshire, but now I am wondering of there is any need for 'shire' on the end of your name.

mrtoad, what fantastic insight you have, maybe you already knew the poster was from Liverpool.

TW, you're getting all worked up again. Perhaps "contradiction" was not the appropriate word. How about "double standard?" In other words, it's ok to bash all Thai's all day long, every day, because of the behavior of a few. But to bash any group of farangs for any reason, unacceptable! Does that about sum it up?

[MrJohnson]

What the hel_l is this supposed to mean? Are you suggesting everyone in Liverpool is a thief?

I was with you all the way until this point, certain posters do talk <deleted> and believe that just because they believe they have never been scammed means it NEVER happens to anyone else, or if it does happen to you then it's you fault. These people need to get lives away from their computers and get out in the real world.

I'm from Liverpool, I was attempting to make a joke .

Sorry.

ph

I think most people would have spotted that it was a joke

Well this little dialogue is actually quite revealing. Phil was harmlessly joking that folks from Liverpool are thieves and TW practically blows his lid. Yet, the blokes on this thread are suggesting that all Thai's are corrupt and dishonest based on experiences with an extremely minute sampling of Thai's, and these same blokes are ok with that. Do you see the contradiction?

Good point and very often the case on this forum. Double standard?

[tonywebster]

I must have missed the part where I blew my lid.

Phil it's bad enough with <deleted> playing on the stereotype mate without us needing to do it to ourselves, if I had known you were from Liverpool I would have seen it as tongue in cheek and having a dig at these <deleted> rather than as some outsider playing on 1980's stereotypes.

As for contradiction, I have not contradicted myself in the slightest, if you care to read my posts in this thread you will see that Berkshire, but now I am wondering of there is any need for 'shire' on the end of your name.

mrtoad, what fantastic insight you have, maybe you already knew the poster was from Liverpool.

TW, you're getting all worked up again. Perhaps "contradiction" was not the appropriate word. How about "double standard?" In other words, it's ok to bash all Thai's all day long, every day, because of the behavior of a few. But to bash any group of farangs for any reason, unacceptable! Does that about sum it up?

Are you suggesting that I bashed all Thais? This is the confusing part because I clearly state not all Thais. I think you have my post confused with others. If i had indeed said 'all thais' then moaned about 'all people from liverpool' then yes that would be a double standard, but since I have not said 'All Thais' at any point I am hoping you can see my confusion by being accused of double standards.I would guess its the minority in the country but the majority in tourist areas.

And do me a favour please, keep the nonsense and petty jibes to yourself, I am very far from blowing my lid or getting worked up, I write with a smile on my face.

[tonywebster]

Well this little dialogue is actually quite revealing. Phil was harmlessly joking that folks from Liverpool are thieves and TW practically blows his lid. Yet, the blokes on this thread are suggesting that all Thai's are corrupt and dishonest based on experiences with an extremely minute sampling of Thai's, and these same blokes are ok with that. Do you see the contradiction?

Good point and very often the case on this forum. Double standard?

I refer you to my posts in this thread and ask you to point out any double standards on my part, at no point do I say 'all thais' or even intimate 'all thais', in fact I state the opposite. your apology will be accepted as it is clea that you have not read the thread and only read Berkshires post, however when he reads the thread he will also see that there are no double standards on my part.

[bonobo]

Let's please get off the "he said-she said" posts and get back on topic.  

Thanks.

[Berkshire]

Well this little dialogue is actually quite revealing. Phil was harmlessly joking that folks from Liverpool are thieves and TW practically blows his lid. Yet, the blokes on this thread are suggesting that all Thai's are corrupt and dishonest based on experiences with an extremely minute sampling of Thai's, and these same blokes are ok with that. Do you see the contradiction?

Good point and very often the case on this forum. Double standard?

I refer you to my posts in this thread and ask you to point out any double standards on my part, at no point do I say 'all thais' or even intimate 'all thais', in fact I state the opposite. your apology will be accepted as it is clea that you have not read the thread and only read Berkshires post, however when he reads the thread he will also see that there are no double standards on my part.

Ok TW, I'll bite. If taken literally (as a lawyer would), then you're covered. But in reading the following, it's pretty clear what you're trying to convey:

"Maybe the majority of Thais are honest, but we don't deal with the majority of Thais, we deal with the ones that are in the areas where we live, or in the tourist areas, and these people tend to be scammers, or at the very least tend to be slow coming forward with information that is important to contracts etc."

On the one hand, you're saying the majority of Thai's are honest. But on the other hand, you're saying pretty much all the Thai's that you/we deal with are all scammers. <deleted>? So if one were trying to figure out your sentiments towards Thai's in general, I'd say it was tilted towards the negative.

[tatt2dude]

And by the way, I also run a successful business, possibly with far higher turnover than a bookshop or 4.

That is very impressive, but it does not negate the fact that I have built shop houses, bought company cars and dealt with numerous government officials and offices without ever being approached for a bribe or cheated. That is the subject of the thread.

does the phrase "robbed blind" mean anything to you?

[Ulysses G.]

Nope. Not in this case. 

[Ulysses G.]

Not believing me is your prerogative,  but as far as I am aware it is true (it is possible that the girl at 7/11 might have short-changed me once or twice). I certainly have never had a Thai official or a Thai that I do business with try to ask for a bribe or cheat me for anything - which is really my point.   

I would say that makes you a rare commodity.

I know quite a few businessmen in Chiang Mai and Bangkok who have few problems with these things and have done well. I also know a few who have been taken to the cleaners. 

[IanForbes]

I'm sorry to hear of all the problems that some people are having in Thailand, but it doesn't really surprise me. That is why this part of Asia is considered to be made up of second rate countries. I still think Thailand ranks higher than Burma, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam and the Philippines. I'll leave out the Islamic countries because they have their own problems. That's not to say that any one part of any of these countries wouldn't be very nice to live in depending on your interests and involvement. In Thailand alone it's almost impossible to fairly compare Samui to Phuket to Bangkok to Chiang Mai to Pattaya to Kanchanaburi and to all the other cities around the country. Everywhere is different and with different problems. Most of us knew the conditions before making Thailand a home. Who can say they didn't know you couldn't own property, and whomever you signed the property to could toss you out and keep it for themselves? Who can say that they didn't know the legal profession in Thailand was suspect, or that there was a lot of corruption with police and politicians? Who can say they didn't know that building codes were suspect and getting qualified workers is difficult? Who can say they didn't understand the Buddha way of thinking? The information has been out there for years. I won't even go into the problems when you mix vastly different cultures and values wihin marriage relationships.

[carmine]

I'm sorry to hear of all the problems that some people are having in Thailand, but it doesn't really surprise me. That is why this part of Asia is considered to be made up of second rate countries. I still think Thailand ranks higher than Burma, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam and the Philippines. I'll leave out the Islamic countries because they have their own problems. That's not to say that any one part of any of these countries wouldn't be very nice to live in depending on your interests and involvement. In Thailand alone it's almost impossible to fairly compare Samui to Phuket to Bangkok to Chiang Mai to Pattaya to Kanchanaburi and to all the other cities around the country. Everywhere is different and with different problems. Most of us knew the conditions before making Thailand a home. Who can say they didn't know you couldn't own property, and whomever you signed the property to could toss you out and keep it for themselves? Who can say that they didn't know the legal profession in Thailand was suspect, or that there was a lot of corruption with police and politicians? Who can say they didn't know that building codes were suspect and getting qualified workers is difficult? Who can say they didn't understand the Buddha way of thinking? The information has been out there for years. I won't even go into the problems when you mix vastly different cultures and values wihin marriage relationships.

Well, that is probably the politest post i have ever read on this forum.

[samuiman]

Some people seem to have the impression that I meant all Thais are scammers / dishonest. This is not the case but the country does have a rapidly growing reputation for scams and general dishonesty. Look at the airport duty free scams, gem scams, tailor scams, palace is closed scams etc. The only other property I have bought outside of my home country was in Spain. When I compare my apartment purchase in Spain to buying land and building a Villa in Koh Samui, with the Spanish property transaction I did not experience any corruption or scams. Everything went as you would expect with this type of transaction. Sure there was a day or two delay here and there because someone did not sign something but nobody requested money under the table or said if I paid more I could get things expedited. This is not to say that it does not happen, just that my dealings in Spain were almost exactly the same as in my home country. The polar opposite was the case in Koh Samui.

Having said all that, I also experienced genuine kindness from quite a few Thai people and if I analyse it, the people who gave me most of their time and kindness were probably the poorest of the Thai people I met.

Seems like power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely especially in Thailand.

Chok dee to all.

Edited June 16, 2010 by samuiman

[anonymouse]

Some people seem to have the impression that I meant all Thais are scammers / dishonest. This is not the case but the country does have a rapidly growing reputation for scams and general dishonesty. Look at the airport duty free scams, gem scams, tailor scams, palace is closed scams etc. The only other property I have bought outside of my home country was in Spain. When I compare my apartment purchase in Spain to buying land and building a Villa in Koh Samui, with the Spanish property transaction I did not experience any corruption or scams. Everything went as you would expect with this type of transaction. Sure there was a day or two delay here and there because someone did not sign something but nobody requested money under the table or said if I paid more I could get things expedited. This is not to say that it does not happen, just that my dealings in Spain were almost exactly the same as in my home country. The polar opposite was the case in Koh Samui.

Having said all that, I also experienced genuine kindness from quite a few Thai people and if I analyse it, the people who gave me most of their time and kindness were probably the poorest of the Thai people I met.

Seems like power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely especially in Thailand.

Chok dee to all.

As I mentioned in a previous post I don't think the problem is getting any worse we are just more aware of the scams now due in most part to the internet.

I think in most of the developing world eg Asia, Africa,Indian Sub-continent and South America there will corruption and potential scams it goes with the terrority.

Spain is a first world country so I would expect business and property transcations to be as smooth as any other western European country.

I have met a large amount of expats and tourist in Thailand over the years and have heard of many being scammed from the drugged drink,passport and cash stolen scenario to people losing their properties. Most made very bad choices some were unlucky. Maybe it comes down to location as well, most of this scams took place in Bangkok or beach/island resorts

I'm up in CM the same as UG and though these things do happen up here there seems to be a lot less of it.

[slapout]

During my working and traveling in many countries, the first thing I look at when entering a city/village and the potential for theft etc is to look at security on private homes and business. High walls with razor wire/broken glass topping, security bars on windows/doors, auto theft alarms/bars, guards on duty in banks, etc. The local residents/business owners of the area will reflect the trust they have for their fellow citizens probably much more accurately than we can.

Those who proclaim years of living here with virtually zero exposure to corruption, theft, scams, etc remind me of the 3 monkey statues which are sold locally Case in point, I watched a 20 something Thai shoplift a couple books out of a local used book store. I always wondered why many stores have 3 times the help needed on the floor, hel_l it is a deterrent to shoplifting. Much better than letting Somchai take a nap in front of security monitors.

[KIWIBATCH]

There are those of us in the wrong place at the wrong time and those of us who never seem to be in or visit the wrong place.

Ripped off...yes I give Thailand (specifically Phuket anyway) an 8 our 10 score on this......

Just a wee example to bore you......had my 3 sons, wives, grandchildren visit me recently in BKK...15 adult/young adults in our "party".

Made a decision based on their wants...to go to Phuket....I wish we never had. I will never ever visit there again (and currently warn my many overseas friends to keep the hel_l away from the place)

I spent most of my time in Phuket not as a very happy Grandad enjoying the grandies time with me...nor enjoying my adult children...but more as an "overseer tour guide"...making sure they werent being ripped off...darn near every step of the way.

From the time we all left our apartment in BKK until our return to BKK 2 weeks later......it was "on guard" status...it started with the minivan from BKK to the airport....and ended up again with the minivan from the airport back to the BKK apartment....inbetween......tuk tuk drivers, street vendors, jet ski hire, boat hire, hotel rates, bar meals (food and drink), conmen with "special" offers, and on it went......for a moment we all thought we had the words" I'm easily conned try me" emblazened on our foreheads.

We all got heartily sick and tired of it to be frank....and I am a "seasoned" alien in BKK.

We just wanted a relaxing pleasant holiday within reason ( I dont mind the odd approach from the odd seller of goods) and I will freely tip for good/average service....food....pleasantness.....taxi.....but the Phuket episode just wore us down

Thats my 10 bahts worth......I dont have any thoughts/ideas on how to resolve it....yes I acknowledge it happens in most places on earth....but in my travels, I am sorry but Thailand is "up there"

[Ulysses G.]

I watched a 20 something Thai shoplift a couple books out of a local used book store. I always wondered why many stores have 3 times the help needed on the floor

Sure there are Thai shoplifters, but are they any more prevalent than in the West? Department stores back home are filled with security cameras and anti- theft devices. This is a big problem even in wealthy countries.

Even right here in Thailand, there are plenty of budget travelers with white faces subsidizing their travel money by dining and dashing and by petty theft.

Edited June 16, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[evanson]

Despite having fallen prey to practically (but not all) of the scams mentioned on this thread over the many years I've lived here, I am still much more at ease with the locals than the robbing thieving farang (particularly on the islands and Hua Hin). Like everywhere else, you just learn as you go along.

But having spent the past six months or so in Bangkok, give me the much vilified Phuket Thais any day over the miserable, xenophobic Bangkokians. Surly sods. Glad to be back on Phuket. And the food here on Phuket 100% improvement on the overpriced bland crap in Bangkok too Happy to learn so many tao hua gnoo looking elsewhere for their, er, entertainment.

I don't want to live in Thailand. That's why I live on Phuket.

Edited June 16, 2010 by evanson

[StreetCowboy]

I reckon the Thais are having to resort to desperate measures to try to weed out the whingers and cheapskates, in order to selectively focus on the polite and easy-going people like Mr Forbes. They never seem to offend him, or rob him blind, and he keeps coming back.

The unfortunate thing is that the Thais don't really understand Westerners, and don't realise that most of the whingers and cheapskates are also bloody-minded and contrary, and will keep on coming back with their miserable incessant grizzling. It (the incessant grizzling) is like those visovovvovvvvvvvvvs at the World Cup games - the botty-trumpets that sound like interminable farts that would even frighten the dog.

Anyway, I notice that despite this thread running to what - 8 pages now? no-one has come up with a single constructive suggestion on what else Thailand could do.

SC

[Livinginexile]

We went for a short break to Chaweng (3 nights) about five or six years ago. We got a very strong impression that the place was run by gangsters. I talked about giving a different part of the island a try last year, but my wife was adamant that she will never set foot on Samui again.

I have that same feeling about Samui too! Scams everywhere.

Someone told me that Samui is bascally run and owned by 3 familys.

I got the feeling the place is run by Mafia.

[IanForbes]

It's been my experience everywhere in the world that employers who treat their staff well, and with respect, have far fewer problems than employers who pay the bare minumum wages and try to scrape as much out of a person as possible. It's the same with police. If you get a warning for a simple infraction, instead of a ticket, then your respect for the police might improve. But, if you run into a cop on a power trip then the oposite is true.

I have no problem with people trying to earn a living any way they can. I expect to have small scams attempted at my expense. It's up to me to know the value of any product and avoid the scammers. And, even people who steal are usually doing it because they are desperate. If I lose something to a thief it's his loss of self respect that will subject him to a life of misery. I can usually make up the difference. And, I'm not wealthy.

Besides, I give more away than is ever stolen from me. And, that includes money. I help people out who need it more than me, and that alone gives me pleasure. I once had a guy come to my home to try and sell me a security camera system. I asked him why I would need one, and invited him into my home. I said look around, is there anything you want? Take it and enjoy it. I've already had my enjoyment from it. I meant it, and the salesman couldn't understand my philosophy... but he walked out with one of my paintings and a smile on his face. Yes, there are certain items that I value and don't want to lose, but for the most part, I'm only their owner for the short time. I would rather someone else use and enjoy them rather than have them sit in my place unused. I donate old fishing tackle to kids who are just starting out. And, all my old fishing tackle is high quality stuff that is still in good repair. It's the same with cameras and older computers that I no longer use. it is better that someone else uses them. I used to do the garage sale thing but realized it was a waste of my time for whatever money I made. It is more satisfying giving the stuff to people who need it more than me.

I'm not trying to make myself out to be some sort of saint. All I'm saying is don't sweat the little stuff. Being miserly is not a pleasant way to live. Because I really don't care about the scammers and thieves I can walk around with a pleasant feeling of enlightenment like I own the world. It is the scammers problem, not mine. Let them live with their own self pity. I know the value of most things and if I can afford what I want then I pay for it no questions asked. If not, then I don't.