Can Thailand Really Do Anything Else To Alienate The Tourists And Expats?

[anonymouse]

How dare I interrupt all the narrow-minded whinging with some positive experiences.

Boy UG, these schmucks are really ganging up on you. No worries, you have a quiet coalition behind you, all of us just shaking our heads at the constant negativity. If my life was as bad as some of these guys make it out to be, I'd put a gun to my head. But yet they stay...and complain....and stay....and complain. One of the mysteries of the universe....

UG has posted a number of rather silly comments.

Thats what happens when you talk a load of twaddle Berkshire i respectfully submit.

I haven't noticed you adding anything to this topic except snidey remarks, at least some of the whingers have put up a fair argument

[tigerfish]

You certainly seem to be an expert when it comes to twaddle one has to admit.

Oh i don't know. Looking at my post, #25, compared to some of yours on this thread, i think i'm doing just fine.

i thought they had caught the last of the great train robbers!

[IanForbes]

i thought they had caught the last of the great train robbers!

Yah, that's because I didn't know where to hide it and I didn't want my father to see it..

Besides, the kid's big brother told me he would beat me up if I didn't return it.

[Portlandstone]

Samuiman, post #3 (first one in thread). A great writeup and the kind of news about personal experiences that needs to disseminated all around, but you mentioned Vietnam and all I can say is, I lived there for over 4 years and that place is growing worse. People who have lived in TL, Cam, Indo and the like think they've discovered some nice little jewel in VN, but they haven't. That place is worse than Thailand, in my opinion. I moved from Vietnam to Thailand, where I presently am but haven't decided for how long. Otherwise, really good writeup!

[samuiman]

Once again, thanks to all for posting replies. I would suggest that some posters need to take a sedative or they may do themselves an injury.

Well, it looks like its official direct from the Thai prime minister. Corruption is the root of problems in Thailand in politics and public services. See the link below from the bangkok post. Looks like its not just Koh Samui after all?

Quote "Mr Abhisit said corruption eroded the country's moral and ethical fibre, starting at the very top with the political system."

Abhisit: Corruption root of problems

There is even a very professional looking website dedicated to avoiding scams in Thailand. Bangkok & Thailand Scams - Thai Gem & Tailor Scams - Home

Chok Dee to all.

[IanForbes]

Samuiman, post #3 (first one in thread). A great writeup and the kind of news about personal experiences that needs to disseminated all around, but you mentioned Vietnam and all I can say is, I lived there for over 4 years and that place is growing worse. People who have lived in TL, Cam, Indo and the like think they've discovered some nice little jewel in VN, but they haven't. That place is worse than Thailand, in my opinion. I moved from Vietnam to Thailand, where I presently am but haven't decided for how long. Otherwise, really good writeup!

Good reply, It is only through reading other's experiences that people new to Thailand get a better understanding of the country sooner. The only hard part is getting past all the nay-sayers and the whingers to pick up the real gems. It is like the old saying... once bitten, twice shy. Being forewarned is being forearmed. After that you can decide on the risks you are willing to take.

[samuiman]

"Well balanced?" Are you high? This is one man's completely subjective opinion based on his own personal experiences and interpretation of said experiences. I'm with Ulysses G on this one. Why is it that certain individuals seem to get ripped off at every turn while others go through their lives just as normal as can be? Honestly, is the OP the exception or the rule? No matter, the OP is gone. And frankly, I hope others would be sold on other destinations such as Vietnam, Cambodia, PI....wherever. It's amazing that so many have complained (and some allegedly have left), yet, so many more come and stay. If Thailand sucks so bad, why do we have more and more expats every year? Why, why, why?

Many of the Expats I met in Thailand appeared to be here primarily for the easy access to prostitution. Granted these gentlemen were in tourist destinations like Koh Samui, Bangkok, Phuket etc. Even in the development I lived in which had many English, German, scandanavian and Irish retired people (aged 50 to 70 years old). Most of the men played offside while their European wives lounged at home or went to bridge classes. The temptation just seemed to much for them! I am not innocent either but then again, I am not married.

Edited June 18, 2010 by samuiman

[Ulysses G.]

You certainly seem to be an expert when it comes to twaddle one has to admit.    

Oh i don't know.  Looking at my post, #25, compared to some of yours on this thread, i think i'm doing just fine.

Oh really now? This is the gist of that post and it is not exactly earth shattering.

'carmine'

Samui seems to have a reputation for ripoffs even for the Thai's.

It was in response to a poster who claims that Thais are much worse than Cambodia and Vietnam about "corruption and ripoffs" and makes it sound like most foreign businesspeople are constantly cheated. These things are simply not true of Thailand in general - although it is possible that specifically Koh Samui is out of control.

There is corruption in Thailand and some people do get cheated - much like many other countries - but a whole lot don't. Cambodia and Vietnam are worse and really not any cheaper unless one is mostly concerned with the price of beer.

As to his assertion above that most Expats are here for sex, that may be true, but both Vietnam and Cambodia have a similar reputation. 

samuiman

The scams and rip offs slowly grind you down until you realise you are no longer enjoying yourself. I got tired of being continually ripped off by the Thais and I sold up. Now I holiday in Cambodia and Vietnam spending about two to three months in each. Although no place is perfect, I have found the other Asian countries I have spent time in to be considerably better than Thailand with respect to corruption and in your face rip offs. They are also much cheaper for almost everything.

[taninthai]

its simple really if you want to live in a tourist hotstop pattaya,phuket,samui etc you are leaving yourself open to dual pricin ,scams and dangerous situations you want real thailand stay away from these places and you see a completely different side to thailand and thai people the happy welcomming side...................................

[mmushr00m]

Can Thailand Really Do Anything Else To Alienate The Tourists And Expats?

Yes they can!!!

1) Mandatory visas for evryone

2) Hire sociopaths and people with paranoia to screen people at the airport

3) Have staff at the airport, especially customs and immigration scream, shout and intimidate all visitors.

4) only operate with the local language, if the visitors do not understand, shout at them, talk in a louder voice, initiate an intimidating body stance.

[yesdavy]

Samui seems to have a reputation for ripoffs even for the Thai's. A friend of mine has built a resort there with his Thai wife handling most of the goffer work, etc. She is from CM and says the locals just keep clipping her every time she turns around. The resort was to be a income generator for her and son when her husband died, (his idea) as well as having a house to live in. She has told him that after he is gone, she will probably sell, as she does not feel accepted there by the locals, as well as their perchance for ripping her off.

Thai wife? Hey, wives need tea money, too.

[yesdavy]

Can Thailand Really Do Anything Else To Alienate The Tourists And Expats?

Yes they can!!!

1) Mandatory visas for evryone

2) Hire sociopaths and people with paranoia to screen people at the airport

3) Have staff at the airport, especially customs and immigration scream, shout and intimidate all visitors.

4) only operate with the local language, if the visitors do not understand, shout at them, talk in a louder voice, initiate an intimidating body stance.

Been there, done that.

[yesdavy]

its simple really if you want to live in a tourist hotstop pattaya,phuket,samui etc you are leaving yourself open to dual pricin ,scams and dangerous situations you want real thailand stay away from these places and you see a completely different side to thailand and thai people the happy welcomming side...................................

What time and where are you handing out the baht?

[yesdavy]

Once again, thanks to all for posting replies. I would suggest that some posters need to take a sedative or they may do themselves an injury.

Well, it looks like its official direct from the Thai prime minister. Corruption is the root of problems in Thailand in politics and public services. See the link below from the bangkok post. Looks like its not just Koh Samui after all?

Quote "Mr Abhisit said corruption eroded the country's moral and ethical fibre, starting at the very top with the political system."

Abhisit: Corruption root of problems

There is even a very professional looking website dedicated to avoiding scams in Thailand. Bangkok & Thailand Scams - Thai Gem & Tailor Scams - Home

Chok Dee to all.

Blaming corruption for eroding moral and ethical fibre? Got the cart in front of the horse, sir. Corruption is the product of moral and ethical decay. Of course, all three are looked upon as virtues when family members are banished for being ethical and moral instead of corrupt.

[yesdavy]

I get really tired of Canadian's whining,How come were not in the World Cup ?

Us Canadians are taught from an early age to complain, whine and snivel. That is one reason why I feel so comfortable on thaivisa forums... there are so many snivelers.

Why should I care if some underpaid Thai scams me for a few extra baht if I can afford it? I don't eat Thai food in Canada because I hate paying $14.95 for something I pay 40 baht ($1.25) for in Thailand? Like I've said many times... it still comes down to value for your money. If something is worth it to you then you pay the going rate... even if it is exorbitant by some people's standards. I can't believe that people would pay 8 dollars for a package of cigarettes, but the smokers do so willingly. Same with the drinkers.

Certainly there are many problems in Thailand, and corruption is part of the way of life. Accept it, laugh about it and get on with enjoying life. Many times I've told Thais that I'm not an ATM machine, but I do so with a smile on my face and a hearty laugh so nobody's feelings are hurt. I've been over charged for taxi rides many times, but sometimes there is no alternative, or you haven't established a price before you take off.

However, I'm not in the position of running a business in Thailand, and don't have those worries, so I can understand people getting upset when contracts are not fulfilled and goods are being over charged for. After spending a number of years in Thailand I came to the conclusion I would never invest any more than I can afford to walk away from with few regrets. Those that get married and raise a family in Thailand have entirely different worries and I sympathize with them.

Speaking of contracts, an investment banker told me early on that, in Thailand, a contract is just a pause in the negotiation.

[tatt2dude]

How dare I interrupt all the narrow-minded whinging with some positive experiences.

Boy UG, these schmucks are really ganging up on you. No worries, you have a quiet coalition behind you, all of us just shaking our heads at the constant negativity. If my life was as bad as some of these guys make it out to be, I'd put a gun to my head. But yet they stay...and complain....and stay....and complain. One of the mysteries of the universe....

I hope I wasn't part of your assumption?

I left full time occupation over 18 months ago and now just holiday 3 to four times a year, I gave up my wp, fired the dishonest and moved on. Quite simply one can't help those that can't help themselves. I keep the business as a self financing holiday home and have two staff who are actually worth their salt, they now run my business and do quite well from it I believe in rewarding honesty and hard work.

Your quite right in your comment, what is the point in banging your head against a wall? I did not like the constant dishonesty that i kept coming across, I did not enjoy the shakedowns and after four years residence the most frustrating thing for me was that the scams were nothing new to me so it was not even a challenge anymore, it was just tiresome. Thailand threw me off center thankfully i now have balance back in my life and no regrets. I actually did quite well out of my stay in the end, it was an education.

I am lucky to have a career and enough talent to locate to whichever part of the world I care to choose, after 4 years in Thailand i chose home, and there is no place like it..... what used to piss me off about my own country is now a smile and a breeze after my Thai experience, it's just too easy.

I do understand that Thailand may be the " ënd of the line " for many of you " old timers" but suicide was never an option for me.

Now its two weeks max in the Land of smiles for me thanks much easier than living there.

Edited June 18, 2010 by tatt2dude

[yesdavy]

Where totally getting off topic from the pages I've seen. As for alienating tourists

1. Current instability issues every year seem to be doing some damage especially to the tourist sector.

2. Seems thailand, in major tourist areas are only going upscale, they seem to forget you can still make money from the average backpacker. ( today's backpacker could be the future middle class tourist )

3. From many people I talk to prices are becoming comparable to western prices. The only time this is different is if your eating and drinking at local thai places, shopping at family mart / 7-11.

Corruption: as long as this is here, or getting worse, how will anything improve.

Weither you love / like / hate thailand - every country has problems from minor - major. Things could be worse, look at mexico's fight with the drug war going on. How does burma or north korea sound. or even zimbabwe. Maybe some of you should move to those places for a while then tell me how bad thailand is after living there. ( I know thats not a realistic option but just worth saying )

Backpackers are not a realistic, target tourism demographic, with one exception, when you are trying to launch a destination that has underdeveloped infrastructure but has soft adventure attractions. Backpackers are one step above hoboes and do not stay in hotels, they use hostels; and they walk rather than pay public transportation, and they eat from the street, not in restaurants. This applies to actual backpackers, not every tourist that carries a backpack.

Have you lived in Mexico? I don't think so, otherwise you'd know that if you are not trying to run drugs or or enforce laws against drugs, then the odds of experiencing any fallout from the drug wars are slim to none, much less than the fallout from the recent protests in BKK. By all means stay out of Colonia Doctores in Mexico City, and be careful on the highway down through Guerrero, in fact, fly don't drive. If you go to the border cities, make it a day trip and cross back over at night. Otherwise, enjoy the fishing and golf in Cabo, Loreto, Vallarts and Mazatlan. Tour the colonial cities and Mayan ruins, relax on 3,000 miles of coastal beaches, and indulge in tropical latin nightlife.

[bangkokburning]

I have traveled extensively throughout South and SE Asia for nearly twenty years. There is no one paradise and there is no perfect place to be year round. My opinion of other countries as follows:

Cambodia: I lived here when it was wild and dangerous and as a young man loved it, but I pulled up in 96. The poverty is grinding. I could not take it any longer and felt it was truly "cheap holidays in other peoples misery" to quote John Lydon. The food is bland and not very clean. People are lovely, you can find a great wife who is not a 35 yo hooker run thru the ringer. The corruption is beyond the pale - another reason I left as well as all the dddgy guys starting to float in. Dead-ender perverts and I just did not want to be assoc w/ that. Barang still have appeal.

Vietnam. Food is great. Women are stunning - but if you think Thais are harsh on you, you've not been to Vietnam. 2nd most money grubbing people I know. Ruined every trip I ever made there over. Sour.

Lao: Lovely, hot and landlocked. Corruption rife, long stay visas are (were) problematic

Indonesia: Crowded, crushing, HOT. Great people not not easy to get hooked up even if you speak bahasa. Food not clean. Visas impossible. You can drag it out about a year with the "have a girlfriend" thing. Then its over more or less and it gets tough and expensive.

Malaysia: lovely country but a bit boring. I think Thailand is about same expensewise. May get lucky and get a Chinese gf. Women can be seen w/ you and not though of as hookers, Food is decent. Alcohol and golf are expensive.

SIngapore: Like it more as I get older but its too expensive. Especially for alcohol. Take care of green spaces GREEN SPACES. Goverment is a bit nanny but they do deliver. Stable financial system.

Phils: Dire situation. Dangerous people. Food is horrible. Alcohol is cheap. As crowded per km as many African countries. Food is REALLY bad. Visas are easy but expensive. Not easy to get anything done. No golf. Crappy beaches believe it or not. Ignorant haze of Catholicism permeates. Dangerous people.

India: easy 5/10 yr visas for americans and brits (5yr). Dirty, unforgiving, friendly men. Women you wont get near. Unattractive women. Crazy, insane (even in the mountains). Typical food is crap. Just as expenive if not more than Thailand / Malaysia for similar standard. India is now expensive.

[philw]

How dare I interrupt all the narrow-minded whinging with some positive experiences.

Boy UG, these schmucks are really ganging up on you. No worries, you have a quiet coalition behind you, all of us just shaking our heads at the constant negativity. If my life was as bad as some of these guys make it out to be, I'd put a gun to my head. But yet they stay...and complain....and stay....and complain. One of the mysteries of the universe....

I hope I wasn't part of your assumption?

I left full time occupation over 18 months ago and now just holiday 3 to four times a year, I gave up my wp, fired the dishonest and moved on. Quite simply one can't help those that can't help themselves. I keep the business as a self financing holiday home and have two staff who are actually worth their salt, they now run my business and do quite well from it I believe in rewarding honesty and hard work.

Your quite right in your comment, what is the point in banging your head against a wall? I did not like the constant dishonesty that i kept coming across, I did not enjoy the shakedowns and after four years residence the most frustrating thing for me was that the scams were nothing new to me so it was not even a challenge anymore, it was just tiresome. Thailand threw me off center thankfully i now have balance back in my life and no regrets. I actually did quite well out of my stay in the end, it was an education.

I am lucky to have a career and enough talent to locate to whichever part of the world I care to choose, after 4 years in Thailand i chose home, and there is no place like it..... what used to piss me off about my own country is now a smile and a breeze after my Thai experience, it's just too easy.

I do understand that Thailand may be the " ënd of the line " for many of you " old timers" but suicide was never an option for me.

Now its two weeks max in the Land of smiles for me thanks much easier than living there.

Good points and I fully understand.

Wish you luck with future endeavours.

Phil.

[yabaaaa]

I have traveled extensively throughout South and SE Asia for nearly twenty years. There is no one paradise and there is no perfect place to be year round. My opinion of other countries as follows:

Cambodia: I lived here when it was wild and dangerous and as a young man loved it, but I pulled up in 96. The poverty is grinding. I could not take it any longer and felt it was truly "cheap holidays in other peoples misery" to quote John Lydon. The food is bland and not very clean. People are lovely, you can find a great wife who is not a 35 yo hooker run thru the ringer. The corruption is beyond the pale - another reason I left as well as all the dddgy guys starting to float in. Dead-ender perverts and I just did not want to be assoc w/ that. Barang still have appeal.

Vietnam. Food is great. Women are stunning - but if you think Thais are harsh on you, you've not been to Vietnam. 2nd most money grubbing people I know. Ruined every trip I ever made there over. Sour.

Lao: Lovely, hot and landlocked. Corruption rife, long stay visas are (were) problematic

Indonesia: Crowded, crushing, HOT. Great people not not easy to get hooked up even if you speak bahasa. Food not clean. Visas impossible. You can drag it out about a year with the "have a girlfriend" thing. Then its over more or less and it gets tough and expensive.

Malaysia: lovely country but a bit boring. I think Thailand is about same expensewise. May get lucky and get a Chinese gf. Women can be seen w/ you and not though of as hookers, Food is decent. Alcohol and golf are expensive.

SIngapore: Like it more as I get older but its too expensive. Especially for alcohol. Take care of green spaces GREEN SPACES. Goverment is a bit nanny but they do deliver. Stable financial system.

Phils: Dire situation. Dangerous people. Food is horrible. Alcohol is cheap. As crowded per km as many African countries. Food is REALLY bad. Visas are easy but expensive. Not easy to get anything done. No golf. Crappy beaches believe it or not. Ignorant haze of Catholicism permeates. Dangerous people.

India: easy 5/10 yr visas for americans and brits (5yr). Dirty, unforgiving, friendly men. Women you wont get near. Unattractive women. Crazy, insane (even in the mountains). Typical food is crap. Just as expenive if not more than Thailand / Malaysia for similar standard. India is now expensive.

Thanks interesting report.

[IanForbes]

Many of the Expats I met in Thailand appeared to be here primarily for the easy access to prostitution. Granted these gentlemen were in tourist destinations like Koh Samui, Bangkok, Phuket etc. Even in the development I lived in which had many English, German, scandanavian and Irish retired people (aged 50 to 70 years old). Most of the men played offside while their European wives lounged at home or went to bridge classes. The temptation just seemed to much for them! I am not innocent either but then again, I am not married.

And this is working on the false assumption that sex is somehow wrong. It is easy to see the people who were raised by puritanical, religious parents. Most so called backwards countries accept sex as being natural. The hypocritical Christian countries want to treat people like sheep. Of course, the Kiwis have taken advantage of that and that is why they wear gumboots.

[IanForbes]

Great post, Bangkokburning. Your comments match my own experiences. I guess I don't want to get bored sitting in some rice paddy shack with none of the amenities I've come to accept. You can't live on sex alone no matter how beautiful your wife might be. The moment you start wanting more then that is when the problems start to occur.

[nikkoid66]

I have been leaving in the USA (Florida) for 3 years and I move to Thailand because US is a total rip off.

You can't save any money there, banks, insurances, mortgages, people, emigration, lawyers everyone is totally corrupt and willing to rip you off.

Just some example:

- you get a parking fine. Systematically you will receive it the same day as the late fine that double price. It always happen, then you end up paying twice.

- I got my scooter towed from the parking lot (in a closed community), they asked $650 to get my scooter back or they sale it to the auction. I opened a small case, the judge never gave them anything because they were changing their address all the time!

- my insurance company forgot to renew my flood insurance. The bank decided (without my approval) to subscribe me to their insurance which is 5 time the normal rate. I had to stop the bank one and find another one, but this cost me $650!

- I purchased flowers on a website (the biggest in the USA) one year after I got charged to a recurring payment for some weird things.... they decided to share my credit card number with some private company. I had to spend hours to get my money back. It was printed in the fine print they said?

... it goes on and on and I could fill a book with rip off in the USA.

So .. maybe Thailand is the same, but at least it is less expensive. $2000 for a lawyer that does a really bad job for a one year visa is common price in the USA...

Corruption is everywhere... maybe less in France where I never met such scam artists...

[bangkokburning]

Its not right to be overcharged because you are from another country or have more money or whatever ignorant perceptions thieves you wish to stripe you with. This - oh, its only a FEW baht mentality is loathesome and lazy. Who likes to pay more and get less? Do you think this money goes to good cause friends? The daughter of the mans education? NO, it goes for gambling and whiskey and hookers.

This mentality always spouts from the following persona: Expat of five years, has bought already home or has posh living situation. Usually married within under five years of arrival. Has plenty of dosh having spent the better part of his life, not in Thailand and not gaining insights abroad - but a nose to the grindstone. Early retirement and divorce have set you down here. You are in the lower top tier of spending power for expats, very comfy - and deride everyone for trying to save money or get the real price (as if that should be difficult). You don't speak any Thai. You have only visited holiday spots in Thailand and only a few at that. You loathe backpackers have not really seen much if any of the other countries in the region. Your reason for being here is based on lifestyle and you have no love for Thailand. You could be in Spain or Mexico or Nicaragua or wherever...Usually this guy is overweight and loathe to spend another hour looking for a better room or whatever or a better price. Takes what he is handed and makes himself happy with it.

Do not stand for being double charged if I can help it. Yes, to save money but there is also a principle. 99% of times you are overcharged it is not going to anyone that will make you feel warm and fuzzy about. It's just theft. Best thing you can do to guard against it is: a) find out the price prior speak enough Thai to sort out bargaining c) be willing to walk away

I no longer even think of tripping to anywhere remotely touristy in Thailand and much the same for many other places in Asia. It is rife with scams. I will not stay in any bungalow concession or resort or go near all the mess that surrounds it. There you will find the worst types of people. Bait and switch is the worst ploy as it wastes time and money. Next time you think about - oh its onlt a FEW baht...what about when you are shown a picture of a beautiful bungalow, taken there and it is a dump AND its double the price previously stated?? Dont like it - WALK BACK.

I no longer go anywhere near bungalows, I only trip in remote parts of Thailand and Asia. In Thailand - I only stay in the national parks. I am stress free.

Thailand is VERY scammy and actually more so as its tourism is so developed. In fact there are people from other countries (Indians) coming here to scam you (astrology/suits),French/ Algerian thieves, Ukranian hookers...

Thais also find Samui I big scam pit as well.

I am so tired of being derided because I want a fair and proper price for my purchases. Why is it you guys are never buying me a beer? you have so much money.

There is a site called bangkok scams - have a look.

Finally ...ONLY A FEW BAHT? I would like to remind these people of how insanely strong the THB is. Thailand IIS as expensive as Malaysia now - and without its standards (lack of corruption, Infrastructure, education...). 10THB is 1/3 of a USD. Have some respect for the money you worked so hard to earn. There is no shortage of poor people that the govt does not see fit to sort out a path to upward mobility that will take your 500 here and 1000 there all day long

Edited June 18, 2010 by bangkokburning

[bangkokburning]

Let me add some sage travel advice - take it or leave it. Knowledge is power. Know the proper value for whatever your are purchasing. Pay no more or no less. In Thailand speaking Thai well enough to bargain is invaluable. The numbers are same in Khmer - so there you go. Numbers same in Indo/Malaysia as well.

Have an idea of what you will encounter on your trip that is odd and a once off - get the price prior

Know how far you are going, apply a price

Know the value of a B150,300,400,700 room. Even if you don't stay there, you know the value. These differ greatly in and out of cities, on beaches...

Know the price of long and short haul transport

Know the value of food

Know the price of medicine

Dont be in a hurry and certainly dont show you are

Dont always assume that you are going to be ripped off OR that a higher price is being ripped off, make concessions for anomolies

Many years ago the transport guys would name a price (high) but one would break if you stood around or looked for other means. Not so anymore. They state a stupid price and stick with it - F-You farang. Even if you know the price for Thais. Hat Yai bus station is a great example. I have walked into town many times rather than paying B15-40 over odds. B70 to go 1.5km - maybe you.

ASK BEFORE YOU BUY ANYTHING.

[Ulysses G.]

Do not stand for being double charged if I can help it.

I no longer even think of tripping to anywhere remotely touristy in Thailand and much the same for many other places in Asia. It is rife with scams. 

I am so tired of being derided because I want a fair and proper price for my purchases. 

I do not like being overcharged either, but I certainly do not want to avoid 'touristy" places all together. Lots of times, places that tourists go are fun and interesting.

I often visit Pattaya and pay 400-700 for a nice, clean hotel room with a swimming pool, air-con and English TV. I eat in restaurants with marked prices and many are well worth the money. I ignore pushy foreign tailors, property scammers on motor bikes and other parasites and no one else bothers me. I do not spend too much time in bars as I am not a big drinker anyway, but one or two beers will not kill my budget and the view is sometimes amazing . 

There are plenty of honest people and honest businesses around. For example, Earl's Original Reflexology near Walking Street gives an amazing, professional  foot massage at a fraction of the price that it would cost anywhere else and there is cheap Thai food all over the place. The hotels can be a good deal too, if you just look around a little.

IMHO, there is nothing wrong with being frugal, however, if if one gets overly paranoid about paying the minimum for everything, It can limit what you see and do. Be careful and compare prices by all means,  but one should not let it completely rule your life. 

[TigerWan]

here in the big smoke akak bangkok I noticed something odd lately.

Thai men in plain clothes sporting some kind of silver badge on a chain around their neck. Saw two within the last week. One was quite fat and the other normal weight? No guns or anything else to make them look like regular cops. Blue jeans and sunglasses

Saw one around Ploenchit as I was going for lunch last week and another one today on Suk Soi 8.

They weren't hassling vendors or anything - and they weren't tourist police looking to fine people for dropping their butts. Any ideas?

Yes the current admin is begining to have citizen snoops to report and snitch on other citizens, right out of the STASI handbook for fascist dictators

MICT minister is quoted June 15 as saying " Too much freedom..." and is implementing new policies curtailing the internet

"Mr Juti added that the warnings was [sic]not intended to violate freedom of opinions because Thailand is not a dictatorial country. The government has given too much freedom for its citizens....

MICT to curb violations of Computer Act : National News Bureau of Thailand

Thailand's MICT will issue warnings to Webmasters

MICT to curb violations of MICComputer Act

BANGKOK, 15 June 2010 (NNT) - The Cabinet on Tuesday has endorsed the establishment of a new office under the supervision of the Ministry of Information and Communication Technology (MICT) to take charge of Computer Act violations, according to the MICT Minister Juti Krai-rirk.

Speaking at 14.00 hrs after attending the Cabinet meeting, the Minister revealed an establishment of the new MICT office, aimed at taking care of the Computer Crime Act BE 2550 (2007) violations, with 57 staff members. The setting up process is due to complete in one month. In the meantime, 50-member staff is being dispatched from the Ministry of Justice to take charge of the process.

The Prime Minister has assigned MICT to issue warnings to websites containing Lèse majesté and radical web contents [sic] aiming [sic] at instigating disunity.

Mr Juti added that the warnings [sic] was not intended to violate freedom of opinions because Thailand is not a dictatorial country. The government has given too much freedom for its citizens, this time it only asks the website owners to control their web contents [sic] without violating other people's rights.

Right outta Kafka...

I can handle rip offs and such, but the creeping fascism is what has me looking to exit

From a blogger on Nation Weblog ( now banned )

More political assassinations and STAS " In the past two days the harassment of blind lottery sellers by the might of the state was a graphic example of how quickly the human rights situation is deteriorating under the cover of a state of emergency that is really a state of suspended democracy . Abhisit, the Spam PM quickly had it wiped from Thai newspapers and censored from national TV after announcing that he would set up a committee to investigate the incident. Well, that about solves it for all of us - right?

He is clearly the son of his political father Chuan who also tended to have a single answer that he thought would let him escape from any scandal - I'll set up a committee.

But as the skies are darkening quickly and Thai democracy is fading away on the far away horizon, the recent hand written note that Abhisit just read yesterday on national TV containing his second 'roadmap' to reconciliation has the concerned citizen worry what comes next. His previous road map - like this time - contained no details but a few days later had seen the death toll rise to over 90 people.

I would like to pick on a few things here to outline how it might look. Yesterday news reached me that a close friend of Rambo Isan, Uan Bua Yai - known for such stunts like the rescue of Arisaman from arrest in the Century Park Hotel and the protests in front of Gen. Prem's house had been assassinated in Korat province yesterday night. Several hit men in a pickup truck that pretended to ask for the way to Buriram had opened fire at close distance and shot him in the head and chest.

Local police who rushed to the scene were interviewed and said that (among other far fetched rumors that _____cannot take seriously such as an affair gone wrong or a robbery) a political motif could not be excluded at the moment.

Now, that's what I call an understatement.

After the death of Seh Daeng yet another leading figure of the Red Shirt Guards has become the victim of a brutal murder and especially one that has managed to challenge the very top of our military power structure by bringing the protests to his home (that really belongs to the Thai tax payer but which he never gave back after his 3rd term as PM).

What I do see is a pattern here - quite a few who have dared to criticize or challenge this very man have become victims of an assassination attempt or are dead and nothing but ashes already. Thaksin - after the famous incident of the drunken Uthai Thani protesters, Sonthi Limthongkul - which shows that even yellow shirts are expandable when they become too ambitions, Seh Daeng and now Uan Bua Yai.

If political assassination as a tool for intimidation becomes the norm and this turns out to be the junta's doing then we have many good reasons to immediately stop wasting time sitting ducks for a regime with a strong tendency to turn Thailand into a kind of 1970's South American terror regime.

While there is little about it on Thai TV or English dailies you can find more on

- Bangkok Biznews

- Thairath

- Khaosod

But this isn't all the news: I have managed to witness another disturbing development: the junta has established a group for the protection of the monarchy.

This group has started to coerce state employees to register as member of this group by filling out a form. Using leading bureaucrats that are members of the PAD as proxies they try to set up a snitch system where employees become informers reporting and denouncing other colleagues that might have said something against the monarchy.

Let me guess, that will be those the haven't signed that form. Of course the idea is that people will fear that they won't be promoted if they don't sign and bow to that system - especially if their boss is a PAD.

Or, if your boss is a red shirt then the junta might just find something to denounce him as anti-monarchist using someone who wants his chair.

One such hospital is Nam Pong hospital in Khon Kaen province where intimidated nurses have called for help from local NGOs and the provincial administration because the head of the hospital - a well known PAD sympathizer - has started a very aggressive, 'sign-or...' campaign.

So while we listen to the sound of reconciliation, neo-fascist tactics of 'Gleichschaltung' are taking root in our society. Could this be normalcy a la Abhisit - an Orwellian Thailand with a 'STASI' model that has citizens spy on each other and denounce people that are not in line with the regime?

It is obvious that this is where we are headed .

[TigerWan]

I am of the opinion that everything in Thailand regarding foreigners is geared toward marrying off lower income women to them.

The foreign business laws , immigration laws ..

And I think a lot of those replying here are not making the distinction about having a Thai spouse, ( usually a woman as most here are male ) to act as buffer, or not.

I am a woman and I have no buffer and I do a lot of crying in frustration as I can't seem to get a fair price for anything.

As I am not about to marry for convenience and having no Thai partners that are trustworythy with 51% of 2 million of my money , can't open a business like I believed was easy to do .

I like it here WHEN I am NOT dealing with Thais, Yes I live on Phuket.

[bonobo]

Cambodia: I lived here when it was wild and dangerous and as a young man loved it, but I pulled up in 96. The poverty is grinding. I could not take it any longer and felt it was truly "cheap holidays in other peoples misery" to quote John Lydon. The food is bland and not very clean. People are lovely, you can find a great wife who is not a 35 yo hooker run thru the ringer. The corruption is beyond the pale - another reason I left as well as all the dddgy guys starting to float in. Dead-ender perverts and I just did not want to be assoc w/ that. Barang still have appeal.

Phils: Dire situation. Dangerous people. Food is horrible. Alcohol is cheap. As crowded per km as many African countries. Food is REALLY bad. Visas are easy but expensive. Not easy to get anything done. No golf. Crappy beaches believe it or not. Ignorant haze of Catholicism permeates. Dangerous people.

Interesting analysis, and quite a bit of truth to it, from my personal perspective.

Two issues, though. I think your description on Cambodia is a little outdated. I think what you wrote has some validity as of maybe 4 or 5 years ago, but the place has taken great leaps forward vis-a-vis foreigners. On my last trip there, my hotel was full of not only families, but there was a group of 70's + bicyclists. They were having a great time taking bike tours around PP. I spoke to them a few times, and all they could rave about was how "lovely" Cambodia was. I think think is a far cry from the pervert rejects who used to seemingly be the main type of visitors.

And I have been traveling to the PI quite a bit lately. Yes, the food is horrible, and the place can be a dump. But dangerous? I really haven't seen it (vice the odd kidnapping on Palawan and such, to be sure.) The people are super friendly. And some of the beaches are simply marvelous. Boracay is getting a little crowded, but the pink beaches such as in Zamboanga are an example of really nice places. And I have golfed at Subic, and it is a really nice course.

[bangkokburning]

Cambodia: I lived here when it was wild and dangerous and as a young man loved it, but I pulled up in 96. The poverty is grinding. I could not take it any longer and felt it was truly "cheap holidays in other peoples misery" to quote John Lydon. The food is bland and not very clean. People are lovely, you can find a great wife who is not a 35 yo hooker run thru the ringer. The corruption is beyond the pale - another reason I left as well as all the dddgy guys starting to float in. Dead-ender perverts and I just did not want to be assoc w/ that. Barang still have appeal.

Phils: Dire situation. Dangerous people. Food is horrible. Alcohol is cheap. As crowded per km as many African countries. Food is REALLY bad. Visas are easy but expensive. Not easy to get anything done. No golf. Crappy beaches believe it or not. Ignorant haze of Catholicism permeates. Dangerous people.

Interesting analysis, and quite a bit of truth to it, from my personal perspective.

Two issues, though. I think your description on Cambodia is a little outdated. I think what you wrote has some validity as of maybe 4 or 5 years ago, but the place has taken great leaps forward vis-a-vis foreigners. On my last trip there, my hotel was full of not only families, but there was a group of 70's + bicyclists. They were having a great time taking bike tours around PP. I spoke to them a few times, and all they could rave about was how "lovely" Cambodia was. I think think is a far cry from the pervert rejects who used to seemingly be the main type of visitors.

And I have been traveling to the PI quite a bit lately. Yes, the food is horrible, and the place can be a dump. But dangerous? I really haven't seen it (vice the odd kidnapping on Palawan and such, to be sure.) The people are super friendly. And some of the beaches are simply marvelous. Boracay is getting a little crowded, but the pink beaches such as in Zamboanga are an example of really nice places. And I have golfed at Subic, and it is a really nice course.

HI and thanks it was a quick write up. My point is we are all HERE for whatever reason. I can trip forever but I long stay here. Many guys can't leave Thailand. In fact If they took away the toilet paper the aircon, the farang food, the cold beer and especially the hookers - 90% of guys would be gone tomorrow, Now, I dont want to get too off topic here.

Last time I was in Cambodia was about three yrs ago. There were signs all over Siem Reap about - watch out for foreigners and sex traffic, etc...I felt really bad and ashamed. That we as foreign me have sullied our reputation so fast in that country. I love photography and that means I need to take special care around kids to keep my distance. You lose a dimension of perspective when like in muslim nations its not easy to visit with women. Anyway... it may have come up a bit dude but there is enough crushing poverty in Thailand for these eyes these days. Ive just seen too much. From Pakistan to Philippines. I will say that Cambodia is aguably more stable than Thailand and has better growth. But the corruption and the creeps - I don't want it. Also, beaches are crap.

Phils are really dangerous and in particular Angeles City - a hellhole if there ever was one. Philippino people have no dignity, they will put you in a dire mess for 1000p. They are a danger physically - they wack and knife each other with regularity. The friendliness is a hope that they can be a patron - or someone in their family. So one course in the nation?? I think Cambodia has one course and incidently, I am sure that course was the sole initiative of American military officers.

But lets get back to the topic. I can't agree more that not only Thailand but Asia has matured and with that comes industrial corruption and scams. All the other countries have variations, but Lieland does it best. Do visit bangkokscams.com - if you are not up on this crap, it will be an eye opener. Lots of ball-sy pics as well.

The OP is correct - Corruption and scams are legion. Thai govt has always seen the scams as a vent for the poor and hence do little or nothing to abate. We are in the end - just passing thru and the problem will leave them as we get on the plane. I really like Thailand. But its a love hate realtionship sure. If it were not for my lovely girlfriend of 6mos Id be only spending 5 mos a year here - strictly on the islands IN A TENT.

BTW today a txi scammed me/gf. took all this bs detour thing - I told my gf to tell him that we will give him the standard cost +10B when we arrive. If not he can drop us anywhere for nothing and we will take another and report him. She is so jai-yen but she told him because she knew what it was going to look like if I jumped in. I tiold her the minute we passed the intersection I smelled a rat - her being Thai said very little until I kept pressing her.

For the - its only a few baht guys....guess they would have paid the 105B instead of the 60. If you pay "just a few baht more" each day...say "only" 100. That is three usd. that is 3000 a month and assuming this doesnt happen every day 27000B a year. But its only a little.

The thing about the people to lazy to walk...the prices do go up. If the price is 400 but they ask 500 and 50% of the people willpay the 500. That is the new price and it has NO bearing on the value of the room whatsoever.

Sorry for the tirade

In fairness, this is only 3rd time Ive had a problem with taxi drivers - but my gf also had a bad one few months ago, taking HER for a ride. She told him, return to bus station! She said he was pissed!