Child In Rear Window....!

[Rags]

My car is fitted with a western standard child's car seat that I brought into Thailand myself, and my son is always strapped in for any length of journey – this took some convincing for my wife but now she appreciates the peace of mind and the freedom of not having to hold him all the time, and he is quite happy sitting and watching the world go by. On the occasions when we have to travel by taxi, then we at least make an effort to hold him in such a way that we could (hopefully) protect him in the event of a crash.

Last night I was driving home on the expressway and whilst glancing in the rear window of the BMW in front, I was amazed to see a Thai baby (maybe 9 months old) crawling on the rear parcel shelf with none of the passengers taking any notice….!!!

The image of what would happen if this car were involved in a car crash is all too easy to imagine.

I have been in Thailand for a number of years and am used to seeing the poorer Thai families crammed onto motorbikes and babies sat on parents laps in the front of cars, but for some reason this sight just struck me as being so much more reckless and unnecessary – even considering the Thai destiny concept of whatever will be will be etc…

Most department stores have child car seats for sale, but I have started to wonder if it is only Farangs that buy them. Do the richer Thais not understand the benefits?

Rags

[patricktan]

In Thailand Stroller for baby is also not very common and I agree with your point they are too poor to buy and for the rich they have maid to take care. Why should they border.

[corkscrew]

My car is fitted with a western standard child's car seat that I brought into Thailand myself, and my son is always strapped in for any length of journey – this took some convincing for my wife but now she appreciates the peace of mind and the freedom of not having to hold him all the time, and he is quite happy sitting and watching the world go by.  On the occasions when we have to travel by taxi, then we at least make an effort to hold him in such a way that we could (hopefully) protect him in the event of a crash.

Last night I was driving home on the expressway and whilst glancing in the rear window of the BMW in front, I was amazed to see a Thai baby (maybe 9 months old) crawling on the rear parcel shelf with none of the passengers taking any notice….!!!

The image of what would happen if this car were involved in a car crash is all too easy to imagine.

I have been in Thailand for a number of years and am used to seeing the poorer Thai families crammed onto motorbikes and babies sat on parents laps in the front of cars, but for some reason this sight just struck me as being so much more reckless and unnecessary – even considering the Thai destiny concept of whatever will be will be etc…

Most department stores have child car seats for sale, but I have started to wonder if it is only Farangs that buy them.  Do the richer Thais not understand the benefits?

Rags

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The really safe car seat is an device that is not all that old. When I had my kids in the '70s in California car seats were just things than hung over the back of the front seat...facing forward. They were designed not for safety...rather they were handy things for keeping the kid in one place. In an accident the thing would have flown off and hit the dash. t was safer to let the kid crawl on the floor on the passenger side.

[Nickerelastic]

Here in the west we're so using seat belts and car seats for babies and toddlers. It's almost unthinkable not to be belted up when travelling by car. I even have one of these for my dog. Not so much for his safety but my protection. I don't want him hurling into me at speed if I have a crash.

[mnoorsapl]

Lack of safety conscious I guess for most Thais. I do strap my kids on the child safety seat when they were little.

[tuky]

This is a very very touchy subject in my family.

I bought all the correct fittings, attachements etc etc and the family think there is something wrong with me.

me "Why isn't Kitty in the chair?"

her "Kitty feels no good in the chair"

me "well how do you think she will feel if she flies through the windscreen?"

her "Mai bpen rai, you good driver"

[markuk]

I brought a seat here in Thailand from one of the department stores, i think it was around 15k, thats quite a lot to an average Thai so i understand why no seats - not that i agree with it!!

[Rags]

This is a very very touchy subject in my family.

   

I bought all the correct fittings, attachements etc etc and the family think there is something wrong with me.

me "Why isn't Kitty in the chair?"

her "Kitty feels no good in the chair"

me "well how do you think she will feel if she flies through the windscreen?"

her "Mai bpen rai, you good driver"

   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep, I initially faced a very similar struggle with the wife.

She basically didn't want to let go of the lad, and certainly didn't want him 'tied to a chair'. The wife's family also thought I was a bit eccentric for spending a relatively large amount of money on a seat to go on top of perfectly good car seat

However, as I mentioned above, the wife is now more than happy with using the car seat, and the little lad actually climbs up into it of his own accord and joyfully asks me to strap him in

Either way, it certainly helps to put my mind at rest after seeing some of the idiots on the BKK roads

Rags

[dereklev]

This is a very very touchy subject in my family.

   

I bought all the correct fittings, attachements etc etc and the family think there is something wrong with me.

me "Why isn't Kitty in the chair?"

her "Kitty feels no good in the chair"

me "well how do you think she will feel if she flies through the windscreen?"

her "Mai bpen rai, you good driver"

   

Yep, I initially faced a very similar struggle with the wife.

She basically didn't want to let go of the lad, and certainly didn't want him 'tied to a chair'. The wife's family also thought I was a bit eccentric for spending a relatively large amount of money on a seat to go on top of perfectly good car seat

However, as I mentioned above, the wife is now more than happy with using the car seat, and the little lad actually climbs up into it of his own accord and joyfully asks me to strap him in

Either way, it certainly helps to put my mind at rest after seeing some of the idiots on the BKK roads

Rags

Same with me.......

It was a real struggle getting my wife to use the childseat!

She loves it now especially when we are on long journeys.

[maerim]

Same with me.......

It was a real struggle getting my wife to use the childseat!

She loves it now especially when we are on long journeys.

Do you have a very small wife or a very large childseat?

I am pleased to hear she enjoys it now on long journeys.

What do you on short trips, leave her at home?

[donna]

A girlfriend of mine was going to buy a new Honda. But it wasn't fitted with the bolt for a safety seat. She asked why, but the salesperson just gave her a weird look!

[Sandy]

tukyleith Posted Today, 2005-06-22 03:44:01

This is a very very touchy subject in my family.

 

I bought all the correct fittings, attachements etc etc and the family think there is something wrong with me.

me "Why isn't Kitty in the chair?"

her "Kitty feels no good in the chair"

me "well how do you think she will feel if she flies through the windscreen?"

her "Mai bpen rai, you good driver"

This is very disturbing for me to hear as a mother. U may be the best driver there is, but im sure the guy in front and/or behind you isn't such a great driver. Nowadays, there are cell phones, radios, etc that causes distractions. And an accident may happen at anytime. Studies shows most accidents happen at least 2 blocks from home...now that's in the US, but im sure almost the same elsewhere. I will never hold my child while in the car. Maybe because my family have been in an accident before, and if it wasnt for the carseat, my sister wouldn't be here. And this accident happened in the 1980s, when carseats were taking up space in a car.

It's sad to hear that most Thais are unable to afford these things. I wonder if there is any way I would be able to help. In the US we have "garage sales" and there are lots of baby products, such as car seats and strollers, that people try to sell cause their child grew out of them. And these products are usually for sale for $5 USD compared to a brand new one for approximately $150 USD.

And as for the person driving that BMW with his/her child crawling around in the back, that is just plain ignorance!

[TokyoT]

This is very disturbing for me to hear as a mother. U may be the best driver there is, but im sure the guy in front and/or behind you isn't such a great driver. Nowadays, there are cell phones, radios, etc that causes distractions. And an accident may happen at anytime. Studies shows most accidents happen at least 2 blocks from home...now that's in the US, but im sure almost the same elsewhere. I will never hold my child while in the car. Maybe because my family have been in an accident before, and if it wasnt for the carseat, my sister wouldn't be here. And this accident happened in the 1980s, when carseats were taking up space in a car.

It's sad to hear that most Thais are unable to afford these things. I wonder if there is any way I would be able to help. In the US we have "garage sales" and there are lots of baby products, such as car seats and strollers, that people try to sell cause their child grew out of them. And these products are usually for sale for $5 USD compared to a brand new one for approximately $150 USD.

And as for the person driving that BMW with his/her child crawling around in the back, that is just plain ignorance!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The reason this is upsetting for you to hear about people not using car seats is because you are an informed mother. You know the benefits of car seats. From the information in your post you grew up at a time in the US when car seats and there benefits were coming into there own. So you have seen the information that proves to you the value of using a car seat. Therefore it is unfathomable to you for someone to not use a car seat.

But you hit the nail on the head in closing your post. Ignorance – in the true since of the word. Most Thais simply have not be exposed to the real benefits of using car seats. Telling them the benefits is one thing but have a real program to promote and educate people in regard to the benefits is something all together different. I mean you have probably seen videos and photos that have been used in the US to help prove the benefits of car seats. Things like those educational materials need to be used to better educate the Thai population in regard to the benefits.

Also you mention garage sales – this falls down in Thailand because in order for garage sales to be effective you need people who purchase the items new in the first place, and there simply are not enough people buying the new ones to develop much of a market for used ones.

The car seat was one of my first purchases following the birth of our child. My wife was not really against the use of one she really just did not see the need/value. Only ran into any kind of problem/issue on one trip. Daughter in the back sick of the trip and started to cry. My wife wanted to take her out of the car seat to hold her and calm her down. I would not allow it. Instead we pulled off at the next market area and spent some time with our daughter out of the car seat. Then when the trip resumed daughter back in the car seat, but my wife moved to the backseat to be closer. Crying not a normal problem as my daughter usually falls asleep about five minutes after getting into the car seat.

Cost is also a major problem. I good quality car seat costs more in Thailand than they do in the west. Most of them are imported so you end up paying the standard price plus import duties and such on the imported item. My wives family does not have a lot of money – and no car so a car seat is not even an issue for them. But I spent more on the car seat than my brother-in-law makes in a month. Even for middle class Thai people with cars the cost of a car seat is quite a chunk of change. Now the folks in the BMW certainly have the money, but many people in Thailand can not see the value to justify the cost. Even if you look at the US, those folks on the lower end of the income scale only use car seats because they are mandated by the government. So in some cases they pick up a car seat at a garage sale more to avoid getting tickets than to protect the child. Again based upon your post you grew up at the time they were passing laws to make using a child seat mandatory and it was not so simple. As hard as it is to believe now there were those who did not think that the use of car seats should be a law.

IMHO problems with car seats in Thailand are uniformed population and cost of car seats.

[Neeranam]

This is a very very touchy subject in my family.

  

I bought all the correct fittings, attachements etc etc and the family think there is something wrong with me.

me "Why isn't Kitty in the chair?"

her "Kitty feels no good in the chair"

me "well how do you think she will feel if she flies through the windscreen?"

her "Mai bpen rai, you good driver"

  

I empathise with you here. Similar to my little girl and the motorcycle. I downright forbade my wife to take her on the bike stading on the front, but found out that she has done it a few times. Another thing too, my mother-in-law has an expensive car and is rich, but she and her husband take my little girl out for rides without any safety seat. My parents were here and kicked up a bit of a fuss over it, but to try and calm things down, I asked if I or my brothers and sisters ever had a safety seat. NO was the answer. They weren't available then.

What can you do, tell the grandparents that they cannot ever take my daughter out in their car? Even if I bought them one, I know they wouldn't use it.

Maybe it's to do with their belief that "arai ja gerd, gaw hai mun gerd". whatever is meant to happen, happens, you can't change karma.

Something that we find very hard to understand, and should we be self-righteous and say they are wrong to believe this????

What about those bikes with those sidecars? I think a kid on the backseat of a BMW is 10 times safer than a kid on one of those things.

Child seats will never be forced here if they can't stop those in the country from taking their whole family+dog on these death traps.

Edited June 22, 2005 by Neeranam

[dereklev]

Same with me.......

It was a real struggle getting my wife to use the childseat!

She loves it now especially when we are on long journeys.

Do you have a very small wife or a very large childseat?

I am pleased to hear she enjoys it now on long journeys.

What do you on short trips, leave her at home?

Appalling use of English on my part!!

[phormio]

This is a very very touchy subject in my family.

  

I bought all the correct fittings, attachements etc etc and the family think there is something wrong with me.

me "Why isn't Kitty in the chair?"

her "Kitty feels no good in the chair"

me "well how do you think she will feel if she flies through the windscreen?"

her "Mai bpen rai, you good driver"

  

I empathise with you here. Similar to my little girl and the motorcycle. I downright forbade my wife to take her on the bike stading on the front, but found out that she has done it a few times. Another thing too, my mother-in-law has an expensive car and is rich, but she and her husband take my little girl out for rides without any safety seat. My parents were here and kicked up a bit of a fuss over it, but to try and calm things down, I asked if I or my brothers and sisters ever had a safety seat. NO was the answer. They weren't available then.

What can you do, tell the grandparents that they cannot ever take my daughter out in their car? Even if I bought them one, I know they wouldn't use it.

Maybe it's to do with their belief that "arai ja gerd, gaw hai mun gerd". whatever is meant to happen, happens, you can't change karma.

Something that we find very hard to understand, and should we be self-righteous and say they are wrong to believe this????

What about those bikes with those sidecars? I think a kid on the backseat of a BMW is 10 times safer than a kid on one of those things.

Child seats will never be forced here if they can't stop those in the country from taking their whole family+dog on these death traps.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you let your child go with someone, knowing that they are not going to be in a safety seat, and your child gets hurt, you WILL NEVER forgive yourself.

I've had serious problems with this issue and my Thai-in-laws . I take a taxi to the MRT - short rides of 5 mins - about 1Km or so, and no real choice. I'm spending over 1.2 Million Baht to buy a car(Toyota Fortuner) mainly because I want to feel that my child is safe when we travel around town. (Oh yeah - its a helluvah car too)

Edited June 22, 2005 by phormio

[Rags]

A girlfriend of mine was going to buy a new Honda.  But  it wasn't fitted with the bolt for a safety seat.  She asked why, but the salesperson just gave her a weird look!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't believe that special bolted fixings are required these days. Most of the good quality childseats that I saw had a mechanism that simply clamps onto the rear seatbelts.

I know it doesn't sound very secure, but once they are installed and properly tensioned, a good couple of tugs on the seat is enough to reassure you that the seat isn't going anywhere

Rags

[chownah]

If I had a child I would definitely get a car seat..........but.........I think I'm detecting a bit of cultural intolerance or at least misunderstanding in many of the posts here. Part of the reason Thais don't use these devices is that they believe in destiny....what will be will be....may pen rai....etc. In some of the posts people seem to think that this is a result of ignorance. I think that the Thai culture has this 'what will be will be attitude' as one of it central points...it is very Buddist. I think that Thais' views on suffering and dieing are very different from westerners' attitudes and it is NOT a matter of ignorance, it is a matter of CULTURE.

Our neighbors' dog had some puppies. One of them had a defect so that its hind legs didn't work at all. It was able to drag itself around using its front legs enough to get enough milk to survive. As it grew it developed enough to be able to travel a distance of about 30 or 40 meters and often came to visit us. It was smart enough to travel along the slight depressions and clumps of vegetation so as to avoid unfriendly dogs. It played openly with its siblings. This dog had personality and style. It enjoyed life for about 5 months and then died. A westerner came by to visit one day and saw this puppy dragging itself around and remarked how disgusting it was that the owners didn't kill it since obviously its condition was causing it great duress. I didn't say a thing but thought to myself how awful it would be to kill one of my best friends.

[Neeranam]

If I had a child I would definitely get a car seat..........but.........I think I'm detecting a bit of cultural intolerance or at least misunderstanding in many of the posts here. Part of the reason Thais don't use these devices is that they believe in destiny....what will be will be....may pen rai....etc. In some of the posts people seem to think that this is a result of ignorance. I think that the Thai culture has this 'what will be will be attitude' as one of it central points...it is very Buddist. I think that Thais' views on suffering and dieing are very different from westerners' attitudes and it is NOT a matter of ignorance, it is a matter of CULTURE.

Chao nah, I think you've hit the nail on the head here. But because they believe in destiny, can also bring some ignorance too. They are told by their spiritual leaders that whatever happens is meant to happen and has a meaning. They often think that then they don't have to do anything, which is where the ignorance comes into play. We/they can, of course, change our destiny, IMHO, we can cancel bad karma. This would be interesting to continue on the Buddhist section.

[Rags]

If I had a child I would definitely get a car seat..........but.........I think I'm detecting a bit of cultural intolerance or at least misunderstanding in many of the posts here.  Part of the reason Thais don't use these devices is that they believe in destiny....what will be will be....may pen rai....etc.  In some of the posts people seem to think that this is a result of ignorance.  I think that the Thai culture has this 'what will be will be attitude' as one of it central points...it is very Buddist.  I think that Thais' views on suffering and dieing are very different from westerners' attitudes and it is NOT a matter of ignorance, it is a matter of CULTURE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As I mentioned in my original post I did consider the influence of the Thai belief in destiny etc. but figured that this doesn't normally stop most Thai's from adopting a basic level of self-preservation (I did say BASIC ).

Just a thought, but would it be fair to say that as most Thai's get richer (or have the means to) they tend to do more and more to protect themselves and their family despite the general 'whatever will be will be' attitude?

On a more facetious note, maybe the key to this particular childseat issue is to bring out a Louis Vitton version and make it THE fashionable hi-so accessory for all self-respecting car owners...

Rags

[dereklev]

If I had a child I would definitely get a car seat..........but.........I think I'm detecting a bit of cultural intolerance or at least misunderstanding in many of the posts here.  Part of the reason Thais don't use these devices is that they believe in destiny....what will be will be....may pen rai....etc.  In some of the posts people seem to think that this is a result of ignorance.   I think that the Thai culture has this 'what will be will be attitude' as one of it central points...it is very Buddist.  I think that Thais' views on suffering and dieing are very different from westerners' attitudes and it is NOT a matter of ignorance, it is a matter of CULTURE.

As I mentioned in my original post I did consider the influence of the Thai belief in destiny etc. but figured that this doesn't normally stop most Thai's from adopting a basic level of self-preservation (I did say BASIC ).

Just a thought, but would it be fair to say that as most Thai's get richer (or have the means to) they tend to do more and more to protect themselves and their family despite the general 'whatever will be will be' attitude?

On a more facetious note, maybe the key to this particular childseat issue is to bring out a Louis Vitton version and make it THE fashionable hi-so accessory for all self-respecting car owners...

Rags

Too true Rags, too true!!!

[TokyoT]

If I had a child I would definitely get a car seat..........but.........I think I'm detecting a bit of cultural intolerance or at least misunderstanding in many of the posts here.  Part of the reason Thais don't use these devices is that they believe in destiny....what will be will be....may pen rai....etc.  In some of the posts people seem to think that this is a result of ignorance.  I think that the Thai culture has this 'what will be will be attitude' as one of it central points...it is very Buddist.  I think that Thais' views on suffering and dieing are very different from westerners' attitudes and it is NOT a matter of ignorance, it is a matter of CULTURE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Following this line or reasoning why do Thai adults use seatbelts? I mean what will be will be right – so why buckle up? If you as an adult feel it wise to use a seat belt. Why would it be unnecessary to use a car seat for your young child?

[maerim]

Following this line or reasoning why do Thai adults use seatbelts?

Because if they don't it means a charitable donation of 200 baht to the local police tea money fund.

[TokyoT]

Following this line or reasoning why do Thai adults use seatbelts?

Because if they don't it means a charitable donation of 200 baht to the local police tea money fund.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is the same thing that drove many people in the west (the US at least) to start using car seats - its the law.

[grahamb]

A girlfriend of mine was going to buy a new Honda.  But  it wasn't fitted with the bolt for a safety seat.  She asked why, but the salesperson just gave her a weird look!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't believe that special bolted fixings are required these days. Most of the good quality childseats that I saw had a mechanism that simply clamps onto the rear seatbelts.

I know it doesn't sound very secure, but once they are installed and properly tensioned, a good couple of tugs on the seat is enough to reassure you that the seat isn't going anywhere

Rags

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes but... the seatbelts in the cars here aren't designed for the child seats. We bought a child seat here after checking that it would fit our car. When I fitted it, I discovered that the seat belt tensioning mechanism is different on Hondas in Thailand than it is in the UK so the seatbelt can't be properly tensioned for the child seat. That is the case even with a new Honda in the showroom (I checked). When I took the seat to Honda to get fitted, they didn't know what I was talking about...

A Thai friend explained that is why many rich Thai's make sure they buy imported cars - because they have imported safety features. According to him, the cars made for the Thai market are known to be missing some features, including safety features.

[corkscrew]

If I had a child I would definitely get a car seat..........but.........I think I'm detecting a bit of cultural intolerance or at least misunderstanding in many of the posts here.  Part of the reason Thais don't use these devices is that they believe in destiny....what will be will be....may pen rai....etc.  In some of the posts people seem to think that this is a result of ignorance.   I think that the Thai culture has this 'what will be will be attitude' as one of it central points...it is very Buddist.  I think that Thais' views on suffering and dieing are very different from westerners' attitudes and it is NOT a matter of ignorance, it is a matter of CULTURE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As I mentioned in my original post I did consider the influence of the Thai belief in destiny etc. but figured that this doesn't normally stop most Thai's from adopting a basic level of self-preservation (I did say BASIC ).

Just a thought, but would it be fair to say that as most Thai's get richer (or have the means to) they tend to do more and more to protect themselves and their family despite the general 'whatever will be will be' attitude?

On a more facetious note, maybe the key to this particular childseat issue is to bring out a Louis Vitton version and make it THE fashionable hi-so accessory for all self-respecting car owners...

Rags

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That would do it! Especially if it was sold with a yellow rear window sticker that said "Baby on Board in Louis Vitton Seat".

[SandDragon]

If the lack of concern for child safety is indeed a cultural thing then it is one of the few things Thailand has in common with the Middle East. Here in Saudi children in child seats, children wearing seat belts or even children sitting down is unheard of. Most common position is standing between the front seats. The added danger here is that, unlike in Bangkok with an average speed of 10kmh, here it is closer to 150kmh. The other day I was chugging along at a lesiurely 160kmh and got passed by a Lincoln, driving on the shoulder of the road and the driver had a 2 year old standing on his lap. Presumably in the fast lane to meet Allah.

[Rags]

A girlfriend of mine was going to buy a new Honda.  But  it wasn't fitted with the bolt for a safety seat.  She asked why, but the salesperson just gave her a weird look!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't believe that special bolted fixings are required these days. Most of the good quality childseats that I saw had a mechanism that simply clamps onto the rear seatbelts.

I know it doesn't sound very secure, but once they are installed and properly tensioned, a good couple of tugs on the seat is enough to reassure you that the seat isn't going anywhere

Rags

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes but... the seatbelts in the cars here aren't designed for the child seats. We bought a child seat here after checking that it would fit our car. When I fitted it, I discovered that the seat belt tensioning mechanism is different on Hondas in Thailand than it is in the UK so the seatbelt can't be properly tensioned for the child seat. That is the case even with a new Honda in the showroom (I checked). When I took the seat to Honda to get fitted, they didn't know what I was talking about...

A Thai friend explained that is why many rich Thai's make sure they buy imported cars - because they have imported safety features. According to him, the cars made for the Thai market are known to be missing some features, including safety features.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am surprised to hear that the childseat did not fit the Honda. We have a "Maxi-Cosy Priory" childseat which fits perfectly in our 2004 Honda CRV. The rear seat belt fits through the seat's roller mechanisms and clamps just fine, and is very secure even before you engage the tensioning lever.

There are definitely compatibility issues with certain cars, where due to the shape/angle of the rear seats a childseat may not sit squarely in place, but I had not heard of the seatbelts not being designed for childseats!

Rags

Edited June 24, 2005 by Rags

[Curt]

me "Why isn't Kitty in the chair?"

her "Kitty feels no good in the chair"

me "well how do you think she will feel if she flies through the windscreen?"

her "Mai bpen rai, you good driver"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No other reasoning comes close to this.

Seatbelts come standard, yet I rarely see Thai kids buckle up.

Thais never want to be the "bad guy" with kids.

[The Dude]

bottom line here folks is that Thais are clueless about child safety in cars. kids are all over backseats and front, crawling around much to the oblivion of their caretakers. I think this is sick! I was in the backseat of a car while this was happening and I was appalled. Do these ppl have pea sized brains or what? I said something about it and was scoffed at like I was some kind of a moron. How many dead babies will there need to be before these stoneagers enter the modern age. Christ, In the USA a parent goes to jail who doesn't have a kid strapped in to a safety seat. Hefty fines are levied nationwide if anyone in a car does not have a seatbelt on. Get with it Thailand! you're clueless