Mun - It

[Neeranam]

Can you Thai people say why and if it is insulting when Thais call farang "mun" when referring to them when they know/think they are not listening.

Edited June 25, 2005 by Neeranam

[siamesekitty]

I feel it's insulting. I never do so myself, and neither do my acquaintances. I get annoyed with people who do not respect others. (Once told off an AE for referring to my boss as "khun farang" while talking with me.)

I don't know exactly about people who do, but I'll just guess that the speaker is either annoyed with the farang or feel that he/she doesn't know anything in this situation/country. (similar to reasons 1 and 3 in my earlier post) Some instances I can think of are:

- A somtam lady tells someone "ฝรั่งมันเรื่องมากว่ะ" - (that farang - or farangs in general - are so fussy/picky) after the guy wanted some somtam without any chilli, tomatoes, peanuts, or beans, and it couldn't be spicy or too sweet or too sour or too salty.

- A bar girl referring to a customer of hers while talking to her friend; she probably thinks he's pretty gullible. or even if she doesn't think he's dumb her use of the word would show to her friend that she doesn't respect him at all.

- A tuk-tuk driver tells his fellow drivers "มันจะไปถึงดอนเมือง บอกจะจ่ายร้อยเดียว" (the stupid tourist wanted to go to the Don Muang airport but said he'd pay only 100 baht), after refusing an offer. This shows the tuk-tuk guy's annoyance and/or that he thinks the tourist is dumb to make such an unreasonable request.

For instances in which there seems to be absolutely no reason (ie. when referring to a total stranger), it might simply reflect the person's education/upbringing/class, or even just a general lack of respect for others. Yes, it could be due to racism, as you seem to implying, Neeranam. Racism does exist, though not as obvious as in some other countries. Or it could just be that they can't use it to refer to any other Thais within hearing distance because they'd get the sh*t kicked out of them.

[greenwanderer108]

อีกวนตีนแปมบีกะไอกิตีน  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thanks alot an arrogant farang

obviously u spell my name wrong

wooohoooooo ..... im really sorry im กวนตีน-ing again

Bambi

PS1 u do it welldone with thai lang,. i admire u..who teach you then...?

PS2...could u be nice with ladies please..

THANKS ka

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Frankly, that's what I love about the internet. I don't have to / really care to descern between sex, sexuality, social class, or race. Here, we are all equal, so if I'm going to be respectful, it won't be just because you're a lady อีแบมบีนนา.

I've learnt Thai from the socialization of monks, friends, couzins, more friends, Not to mention all the music, movies, and television in between.

As far as the script, reading, and writing, it's been self guided learning with all Thai people around as reinforcement. ทำไมจะต้องมีคนสอนด้วย รู้ได้ยังไงเราไม่ได้เป็นคนไทนที่ไปอยู่เมืองนอกนานๆ แล้วแค่ลอกทุกๆคนว่าเป็นฝรัง ภาษาอังกฤษของเอง uh I mean เธอ ก็ไม่เร็ว

And to Kitty,

A majority of Thais wouldn't get so serious or offended by petty talk. Sure, some might--perhaps like yourself. But usually, these are the same Thais who have studied and spent several years atleast--- overseas and adapted western thinking and ways.

To me, your logic sounds very western. It's more of a western attitude (especially girls) to get hurt over words..Most Thais, depending on the context, would likely would forget about it ชั่งมัน and I disagree with you. If I กวนตีน with most young thais (even if young at heart) they're likely to กวนตีน back, not get offended and cry or make a deal about it. แม่ง

[siamesekitty]

รู้ได้ยังไงเราไม่ได้เป็นคนไทนที่ไปอยู่เมืองนอกนานๆ แล้วแค่ลอกทุกๆคนว่าเป็นฝรัง

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

เพราะคุณไม่เข้าใจไง ถึงได้รู้

พอเถอะค่ะ (ช่างมัน) ไม่อยากจะพูดอะไรแล้วล่ะ เดี๋ยวจะหาว่าร้องไห้หรือโกรธอะไรมากมาย ซึ่งเปล่าเลย ไม่ต้องเป็นห่วงหรอกค่ะ ไอ้เราก็แค่อยากจะเตื่อนเพื่อนๆร่วมบอร์ดเท่านั้นแหละ จะได้ไม่เผลอใช้กับคนที่เค้าถือ

ไม่เป็นไร.. We can agree to disagree.

[BambinA]

รู้ได้ยังไงเราไม่ได้เป็นคนไทนที่ไปอยู่เมืองนอกนานๆ แล้วแค่ลอกทุกๆคนว่าเป็นฝรัง

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

เพราะคุณไม่เข้าใจไง ถึงได้รู้

พอเถอะค่ะ (ช่างมัน) ไม่อยากจะพูดอะไรแล้วล่ะ เดี๋ยวจะหาว่าร้องไห้หรือโกรธอะไรมากมาย ซึ่งเปล่าเลย ไม่ต้องเป็นห่วงหรอกค่ะ ไอ้เราก็แค่อยากจะเตื่อนเพื่อนๆร่วมบอร์ดเท่านั้นแหละ จะได้ไม่เผลอใช้กับคนที่เค้าถือ

ไม่เป็นไร.. We can agree to disagree.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good job baby ..

แบมบีนา

[meadish_sweetball]

So... to wrap it up, it may or may not offend/be intended to offend, depending on the situation.

If you dont know which it is, I reckon the best solution is always to a.) not challenge the speaker and forget about it, or b.) IF you do challenge the speaker, with a smile say something like แต่ที่น่าประหลาดใจที่สุด ก็คือว่า 'มัน' มีหูด็วย(วะ)

dtae sing thii naa prathab jai thii sut gor kheu waa, "MAN" mii huu duay (wa')

But the strangest thing of all - IT has got ears, as well!

This should be enough to effectively shut the trap of anyone who actually was disrespectful, and probably render laughter points from bystanders as well. Add the wa' to show you know impolite speech, or leave it out to seem like you are a little more cultivated. Your choice...

[Neeranam]

If you dont know which it is, I reckon the best solution is always to a.) not challenge the speaker and forget about it, or b.) IF you do challenge the speaker, with a smile say something like แต่ที่น่าประหลาดใจที่สุด ก็คือว่า 'มัน' มีหูด็วย(วะ)

dtae sing thii naa prathab jai thii sut gor kheu waa, "MAN" mii huu duay (wa')

But the strangest thing of all - IT has got ears, as well!

This should be enough to effectively shut the trap of anyone who actually was disrespectful, and probably render laughter points from bystanders as well. Add the wa' to show you know impolite speech, or leave it out to seem like you are a little more cultivated. Your choice... 

Great advice Meadish Sweetball!

I find it very hard sometimes, but this is a defect of mine(which I am working on).

For instances in which there seems to be absolutely no reason (ie. when referring to a total stranger), it might simply reflect the person's education/upbringing/class, or even just a general lack of respect for others. Yes, it could be due to racism, as you seem to implying, Neeranam. Racism does exist, though not as obvious as in some other countries. Or it could just be that they can't use it to refer to any other Thais within hearing distance because they'd get the sh*t kicked out of them.

Yeah , your right, racism is everywhere.

One story - my friend, who is a member of RBSC and married to a farang said that she was with a bunch of hi-so ladies(one even above that!), and they were using "mun" referring to a farang member, an ex-consul. She said that the ladies got quite a shock when her husband walked up to them. So, maybe it is not just a class, education thing.

[siamesekitty]

Come to think of it, all this fuss above could just be due to a simple misuse of a word, "กวนตีน" instead of something like "ล้อเล่น". I just realized that "ล้อเล่น" (lor len = joking/kidding) might actually be the concept that greenwanderer was trying to convey. (Too bad I didn't think of this earlier.) Sorry if this is the case.

Because you unintentionally offend someone and say "ขอโทษครับ ผมแค่ล้อเล่น(เฉยๆ)" (kho tod krub, phom khae lor len) = "sorry, I was just kidding" then yes, things should be okay, Thais are willing to forgive someone who was just trying to be lighthearted. But if you use "กวนตีน" it's a bit risky because it's not a very polite word in itself; if you've already offended someone then this could make it worse. That's all.

[greenwanderer108]

Come to think of it, all this fuss above could just be due to a simple misuse of a word, "กวนตีน" instead of something like "ล้อเล่น". I just realized that "ล้อเล่น" (lor len = joking/kidding) might actually be the concept that greenwanderer was trying to convey. (Too bad I didn't think of this earlier.) Sorry if this is the case.

Because you unintentionally offend someone and say "ขอโทษครับ ผมแค่ล้อเล่น(เฉยๆ)" (kho tod krub, phom khae lor len) = "sorry, I was just kidding" then yes, things should be okay, Thais are willing to forgive someone who was just trying to be lighthearted. But if you use "กวนตีน" it's a bit risky because it's not a very polite word in itself; if you've already offended someone then this could make it worse. That's all. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Miss Kitty,

Hate to keep disagreeing with you, but I can't seem to see it your way.

No, I was intending to use กวนตีน not ล้อเล่น. Sure, ล้อเล่น is a lighter degree of the same meaning. But I can assure you, Thais don't/most won't likely be/get offended from the word กวนตีน. Ofcourse it would be disrespectful if I used it with my aunts or some (certainly not all) respected officials, but I wouldn't necesarrily use the word มัน with those same people anyway. But as far as peers or co workers, mates, girl friend,(even my boss and professors sometimes), couzins, Guan theen is very commonly used without anyone ever taking it as impolite.

กวนตีน is spoken in the office, school, streets, home, just about everywhere. In fact, I have heard this word more frequently in the past month then I've heard ล้อเล่น .

I will agree with you in your example, that replacing กวนตีน with ล้อเล่น could come off more respectful if you're not sure about offending someone. But you make it sound like มัน มึง กู and กวนตีน are bad words and should not be used unless you 'are a master of the Thai language' which I strongly disagree with. These words are simply more intimant and informal, not bad or generally impolite---only sounding impolite when crossed with formality, which certain social masks are expected to be worn ครับ.

Kitty, I am convinced that your logic in thinking has been socialized greatly in either a western classroom or other social environment, that you seem to miss/forgotten the essence of the easy going Thai nature of your own heritage. This is usually common among, as I said previously, either Thais who have spent years overseas, or Thais who enter the วงการ of high society and adopt great 'desire' for formaility---which in my oppinion is ancient in itself! i.e. aristocracy, monarchy, bureocracy, yesterday.

You ever seen the recent Thai film หมานคร Citizen Dog (probably not as you sound so typical of the Thai who hasn't seen a Thai film or TV show in years as you are so busy trying to keep up with Hollywood)

Anyway, there are great concepts about Thai society in there with a general metephor about Bangkokians growing tails...which is symbolic for the Thais that lose touch of their true roots and nature in pursuing all the wrong things.

Perhaps this fits you, but whether you will accept it is something else. It's a funny movie anyway

[Boon Mee]

Not completely off topic but that reminds me of the Thai saying: "Wah Tae Khau, I-Nao Pen Eng" A lowly frog turned into a high prince.

[the scouser]

Meadish,

I presume you were trying to see how much attention we're all paying when you wrote "ด็วย" .

Scouse.

[siamesekitty]

เราอาจจะคุยกันคนละเรื่องเดียวกันก็ได้นะ

By the way, greenwanderer, please stop making assumptions about my background/education/class/race/character to ratify your comments. I might not be as you magine me to be.

Thank you.

[greenwanderer108]

เราอาจจะคุยกันคนละเรื่องเดียวกันก็ได้นะ

By the way, greenwanderer, please stop making assumptions about my background/education/class/race/character to ratify your comments. I might not be as you magine me to be.

Thank you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The more you articulate yourself so clearly, gramatically error-free, and seriousness of such a subject only reinforce my initial assumptions about your background/education/class/race/character. Nothing I said should/would/could have made any other Thai so serious.

What? I don't know you, I don't know what you've been through? Save those lines, I have heard enough of this attitude from a culture I grew up in---based on individualistic selfishness. อย่าคิดมากนะเวย!! ความคิดเมือนผู้หญิงฝรังจริงๆวะ

[Boon Mee]

'Mun' has been adressed Here as well with one of the 'Big Guns' of TV weighing in last.

Further illumination...

[bannork]

เราอาจจะคุยกันคนละเรื่องเดียวกันก็ได้นะ

By the way, greenwanderer, please stop making assumptions about my background/education/class/race/character to ratify your comments. I might not be as you magine me to be.

Thank you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The more you articulate yourself so clearly, gramatically error-free, and seriousness of such a subject only reinforce my initial assumptions about your background/education/class/race/character. Nothing I said should/would/could have made any other Thai so serious.

What? I don't know you, I don't know what you've been through? Save those lines, I have heard enough of this attitude from a culture I grew up in---based on individualistic selfishness. อย่าคิดมากนะเวย!! ความคิดเมือนผู้หญิงฝรังจริงๆวะ

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The greenwanderer is looking very dodgy, here he is criticising siamese kitty saying she is serious and thinking too much like a farang, whilst if you turn to the general topics forum and read the thread 'SonnyJ's latest', started by the great wanderer, he waxes on about how 'we', meaning self, are farang and Thais don't always understand'us'.

greenwanderer, you're a fake, you're certainly green, probably late teens, just post acne, and you're certainly wandering, somewhere between Thailand and USA, caught between 2 cultures.

[greenwanderer108]

เราอาจจะคุยกันคนละเรื่องเดียวกันก็ได้นะ

By the way, greenwanderer, please stop making assumptions about my background/education/class/race/character to ratify your comments. I might not be as you magine me to be.

Thank you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The more you articulate yourself so clearly, gramatically error-free, and seriousness of such a subject only reinforce my initial assumptions about your background/education/class/race/character. Nothing I said should/would/could have made any other Thai so serious.

What? I don't know you, I don't know what you've been through? Save those lines, I have heard enough of this attitude from a culture I grew up in---based on individualistic selfishness. อย่าคิดมากนะเวย!! ความคิดเมือนผู้หญิงฝรังจริงๆวะ

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The greenwanderer is looking very dodgy, here he is criticising siamese kitty saying she is serious and thinking too much like a farang, whilst if you turn to the general topics forum and read the thread 'SonnyJ's latest', started by the great wanderer, he waxes on about how 'we', meaning self, are farang and Thais don't always understand'us'.

greenwanderer, you're a fake, you're certainly green, probably late teens, just post acne, and you're certainly wandering, somewhere between Thailand and USA, caught between 2 cultures.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bannark,

If you look at that thread mentioned, I said nothing/inferred anything about Thai's not understanding us as Farangs. Anyone would know that 'we' is not a personal pronoun inferring self, but a collective pronoun referring to a group of people including the speaker...but most certainly not limited to the speaker.

Am I fake?...depends on what your definition is of fake. Not real? Being someone/something I'm not? I'm not sure what you are implying here. But if this is what you mean--that I'm not real or being something I'm not, then sure...label me fake. And that would make you what? Real? If your ideas/character/personality represented from your previous post attempt to insult me are a representation of Real/Not Fake, then I'm happy to be the opposite of you.

Late teens...close, but not quite...early 20's, 22 to be precise. Age is a number and is not a measurement of greatness nor validity. If that was the case, why did Jesus, Mohamad, and Sidartha, a few of the 'greatest' most worshiped men in written history leave the mortal world so young?

Green is the color of life...leaves, grass, algea, most herbs, are among the few forms of life on this planet that are green.

Post acne...Acne kicked in for me around 18. It's certainly not over yet, and adds an edge to my look...It serves as a barrier for the desire that many humans have for being a model/pretty boy/girl who make a living from superficial entities and don't have to use their brain for constructive purposes---

a reminder of why vanity is ไร้สาระ---or do you know what that means, ไอบ้านนอก

Wandering between two worlds? No I'm wandering among many more worlds than that. The color spectrum is much more complex than your black and white world.

So am I hurt/offended by your comments outsider? naaah, I interpreted it as an attempt to win the cyber heart of อี Kitty. Best of luck

Edited June 28, 2005 by greenwanderer108

[BambinA]

เราอาจจะคุยกันคนละเรื่องเดียวกันก็ได้นะ

By the way, greenwanderer, please stop making assumptions about my background/education/class/race/character to ratify your comments. I might not be as you magine me to be.

Thank you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The more you articulate yourself so clearly, gramatically error-free, and seriousness of such a subject only reinforce my initial assumptions about your background/education/class/race/character. Nothing I said should/would/could have made any other Thai so serious.

What? I don't know you, I don't know what you've been through? Save those lines, I have heard enough of this attitude from a culture I grew up in---based on individualistic selfishness. อย่าคิดมากนะเวย!! ความคิดเมือนผู้หญิงฝรังจริงๆวะ

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The greenwanderer is looking very dodgy, here he is criticising siamese kitty saying she is serious and thinking too much like a farang, whilst if you turn to the general topics forum and read the thread 'SonnyJ's latest', started by the great wanderer, he waxes on about how 'we', meaning self, are farang and Thais don't always understand'us'.

greenwanderer, you're a fake, you're certainly green, probably late teens, just post acne, and you're certainly wandering, somewhere between Thailand and USA, caught between 2 cultures.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bannark,

If you look at that thread mentioned, I said nothing/inferred anything about Thai's not understanding us as Farangs. Anyone would know that 'we' is not a personal pronoun inferring self, but a collective pronoun referring to a group of people including the speaker...but most certainly not limited to the speaker.

Am I fake?...depends on what your definition is of fake. Not real? Being someone/something I'm not? I'm not sure what you are implying here. But if this is what you mean--that I'm not real or being something I'm not, then sure...label me fake. And that would make you what? Real? If your ideas/character/personality represented from your previous post attempt to insult me are a representation of Real/Not Fake, then I'm happy to be the opposite of you.

Late teens...close, but not quite...early 20's, 22 to be precise. Age is a number and is not a measurement of greatness nor validity. If that was the case, why did Jesus, Mohamad, and Sidartha, a few of the 'greatest' most worshiped men in written history leave the mortal world so young?

Green is the color of life...leaves, grass, algea, most herbs, are among the few forms of life on this planet that are green.

Post acne...Acne kicked in for me around 18. It's certainly not over yet, and adds an edge to my look...It serves as a barrier for the desire that many humans have for being a model/pretty boy/girl who make a living from superficial entities and don't have to use their brain for constructive purposes---

a reminder of why vanity is ไร้สาระ---or do you know what that means, ไอบ้านนอก

Wandering between two worlds? No I'm wandering among many more worlds than that. The color spectrum is much more complex than your black and white world.

So am I hurt/offended by your comments outsider? naaah, I interpreted it as an attempt to win the cyber heart of อี Kitty. Best of luck

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well obviously u re so cool ..good in Thai language and u love to beat ladies

i think

better?

Bambi

Edited June 28, 2005 by BambinA

[greenwanderer108]

As I stated earlier, this is cyber space. Sex and Race are irrelivant. Here, if I have reason to, I'll beat you---man, woman, farang, Thai, or whatever. No biases here, and you most certainly won't win my respect or sympathy just because you claim to be a lady...That doesn't work for me...I've been online long enough to know how many sickos, lady boys, etc. claim to be ladies.

While we're on the subject, I am someone who believes in equal rights. All that smuck about respecting ladies (i.e. ladies first, let the lady have a seat, don't hit girls, etc.) does not make woman equal. If you knew any true feminist female, she would never accept your seat if you try to give it to her on a bus/train as you wanted to be 'the bigger man'.

Equal would be if a girl is justified to hit a man, then the man should be justified to hit a girl...though violence should never be justified from either sex. But obviously in the present, this can often be unfair as men have evolved generally to be larger than women. This is simply a matter of sexual selection since the Patriarchy overcame the Matriarchy several thousand years ago.

Whenever I hear such a comment from a female like 'But you're a man, I'm a woman' is only reinforcing the fact that women are suppressing themselves to be more fragile and less superior than men....which scientifically and biologically is not true at all. Anyone who disagrees should study human history, particularly regarding matriarchal societies. In fact, I have done extensive research on this for a feature story regarding which is located in the feature section of www.nationjunior.com. If you want to read it, the name of the feature is 'Women's World' Another book I suggest is "When God Was a Women" by Merlin Stone

To conclude this off the topic statement, no, I don't discriminate females from males in arguments, fights, or conversations. Anyone who does is on the basis that women are inferior. So don't expect me to give up my seat or respect you more on the basis that you are a lady, weaker than me...because that would be just as ignorant if the basis were your race/ethnicity. I would give up my seat to someone who was truly needy though such as the elderly, handicapped, pregnant, etc.. Ok, forgive the off the topic sense of this

มันไม่เกียวอะไรแต่ก็สำคัณเหมือนกันวะ

[bannork]

เราอาจจะคุยกันคนละเรื่องเดียวกันก็ได้นะ

By the way, greenwanderer, please stop making assumptions about my background/education/class/race/character to ratify your comments. I might not be as you magine me to be.

Thank you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The more you articulate yourself so clearly, gramatically error-free, and seriousness of such a subject only reinforce my initial assumptions about your background/education/class/race/character. Nothing I said should/would/could have made any other Thai so serious.

What? I don't know you, I don't know what you've been through? Save those lines, I have heard enough of this attitude from a culture I grew up in---based on individualistic selfishness. อย่าคิดมากนะเวย!! ความคิดเมือนผู้หญิงฝรังจริงๆวะ

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The greenwanderer is looking very dodgy, here he is criticising siamese kitty saying she is serious and thinking too much like a farang, whilst if you turn to the general topics forum and read the thread 'SonnyJ's latest', started by the great wanderer, he waxes on about how 'we', meaning self, are farang and Thais don't always understand'us'.

greenwanderer, you're a fake, you're certainly green, probably late teens, just post acne, and you're certainly wandering, somewhere between Thailand and USA, caught between 2 cultures.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bannark,

If you look at that thread mentioned, I said nothing/inferred anything about Thai's not understanding us as Farangs. Anyone would know that 'we' is not a personal pronoun inferring self, but a collective pronoun referring to a group of people including the speaker...but most certainly not limited to the speaker.

Am I fake?...depends on what your definition is of fake. Not real? Being someone/something I'm not? I'm not sure what you are implying here. But if this is what you mean--that I'm not real or being something I'm not, then sure...label me fake. And that would make you what? Real? If your ideas/character/personality represented from your previous post attempt to insult me are a representation of Real/Not Fake, then I'm happy to be the opposite of you.

Late teens...close, but not quite...early 20's, 22 to be precise. Age is a number and is not a measurement of greatness nor validity. If that was the case, why did Jesus, Mohamad, and Sidartha, a few of the 'greatest' most worshiped men in written history leave the mortal world so young?

Green is the color of life...leaves, grass, algea, most herbs, are among the few forms of life on this planet that are green.

Post acne...Acne kicked in for me around 18. It's certainly not over yet, and adds an edge to my look...It serves as a barrier for the desire that many humans have for being a model/pretty boy/girl who make a living from superficial entities and don't have to use their brain for constructive purposes---

a reminder of why vanity is ไร้สาระ---or do you know what that means, ไอบ้านนอก

Wandering between two worlds? No I'm wandering among many more worlds than that. The color spectrum is much more complex than your black and white world.

So am I hurt/offended by your comments outsider? naaah, I interpreted it as an attempt to win the cyber heart of อี Kitty. Best of luck

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you need to practise your Thai greatwanderer-ไอบ้านนอก means coughing upcountry,no doubt you meant to say ไอ้บ้านนอก an insult meaning country bumpkin,or perhaps in your maturity you meant the Issan อ้ายบ้านนอก ,older brother upcountry.

[siamesekitty]

Quite a bit of ranting for one who's accusing someone else of being too "farang" and taking things too seriously na..

[Rags]

Quite a bit of ranting for one who's accusing someone else of being too "farang" and taking things too seriously na..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Keep on him Kitty - you do get the feeling that he doesn't like to be proved wrong don't you

Of course, the real trouble is that you are just not Thai ENOUGH to have a valid view anymore - shame on you

Rags

[BambinA]

As I stated earlier, this is cyber space. Sex and Race are irrelivant. Here, if I have reason to, I'll beat you---man, woman, farang, Thai, or whatever. No biases here, and you most certainly won't win my respect or sympathy just because you claim to be a lady...That doesn't work for me...I've been online long enough to know how many sickos, lady boys, etc. claim to be ladies.

While we're on the subject, I am someone who believes in equal rights. All that smuck about respecting ladies (i.e. ladies first, let the lady have a seat, don't hit girls, etc.) does not make woman equal. If you knew any true feminist female, she would never accept your seat if you try to give it to her on a bus/train as you wanted to be 'the bigger man'.

Equal would be if a girl is justified to hit a man, then the man should be justified to hit a girl...though violence should never be justified from either sex. But obviously in the present, this can often be unfair as men have evolved generally to be larger than women. This is simply a matter of sexual selection since the Patriarchy overcame the Matriarchy several thousand years ago.

Whenever I hear such a comment from a female like 'But you're a man, I'm a woman' is only reinforcing the fact that women are suppressing themselves to be more fragile and less superior than men....which scientifically and biologically is not true at all. Anyone who disagrees should study human history, particularly regarding matriarchal societies. In fact, I have done extensive research on this for a feature story regarding which is located in the feature section of www.nationjunior.com. If you want to read it, the name of the feature is 'Women's World' Another book I suggest is "When God Was a Women" by Merlin Stone

To conclude this off the topic statement, no, I don't discriminate females from males in arguments, fights,  or conversations. Anyone who does is on the basis that women are inferior. So don't expect me to give up my seat or respect you more on the basis that you are a lady, weaker than me...because that would be just as ignorant if the basis were your race/ethnicity. I would give up my seat to someone who was truly needy though such as the elderly, handicapped, pregnant, etc.. Ok, forgive the off the topic sense of this

มันไม่เกียวอะไรแต่ก็สำคัณเหมือนกันวะ

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

dear..Khun greenwanderer108

for me discussion is great, like we trade knowledge ..but what i mean .. u'd not call people อี ..

that's it.

Regards

Bambi

[Boon Mee]

Well, for me, it's a source of pride to go down to BKK and tell folks ผมเป็นคบัานนอก .

But even this dumb Farang knows not to use อี under any circumstances. Just not very polite...

Edited June 29, 2005 by Boon Mee

[greenwanderer108]

เราอาจจะคุยกันคนละเรื่องเดียวกันก็ได้นะ

By the way, greenwanderer, please stop making assumptions about my background/education/class/race/character to ratify your comments. I might not be as you magine me to be.

Thank you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The more you articulate yourself so clearly, gramatically error-free, and seriousness of such a subject only reinforce my initial assumptions about your background/education/class/race/character. Nothing I said should/would/could have made any other Thai so serious.

What? I don't know you, I don't know what you've been through? Save those lines, I have heard enough of this attitude from a culture I grew up in---based on individualistic selfishness. อย่าคิดมากนะเวย!! ความคิดเมือนผู้หญิงฝรังจริงๆวะ

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The greenwanderer is looking very dodgy, here he is criticising siamese kitty saying she is serious and thinking too much like a farang, whilst if you turn to the general topics forum and read the thread 'SonnyJ's latest', started by the great wanderer, he waxes on about how 'we', meaning self, are farang and Thais don't always understand'us'.

greenwanderer, you're a fake, you're certainly green, probably late teens, just post acne, and you're certainly wandering, somewhere between Thailand and USA, caught between 2 cultures.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bannark,

If you look at that thread mentioned, I said nothing/inferred anything about Thai's not understanding us as Farangs. Anyone would know that 'we' is not a personal pronoun inferring self, but a collective pronoun referring to a group of people including the speaker...but most certainly not limited to the speaker.

Am I fake?...depends on what your definition is of fake. Not real? Being someone/something I'm not? I'm not sure what you are implying here. But if this is what you mean--that I'm not real or being something I'm not, then sure...label me fake. And that would make you what? Real? If your ideas/character/personality represented from your previous post attempt to insult me are a representation of Real/Not Fake, then I'm happy to be the opposite of you.

Late teens...close, but not quite...early 20's, 22 to be precise. Age is a number and is not a measurement of greatness nor validity. If that was the case, why did Jesus, Mohamad, and Sidartha, a few of the 'greatest' most worshiped men in written history leave the mortal world so young?

Green is the color of life...leaves, grass, algea, most herbs, are among the few forms of life on this planet that are green.

Post acne...Acne kicked in for me around 18. It's certainly not over yet, and adds an edge to my look...It serves as a barrier for the desire that many humans have for being a model/pretty boy/girl who make a living from superficial entities and don't have to use their brain for constructive purposes---

a reminder of why vanity is ไร้สาระ---or do you know what that means, ไอบ้านนอก

Wandering between two worlds? No I'm wandering among many more worlds than that. The color spectrum is much more complex than your black and white world.

So am I hurt/offended by your comments outsider? naaah, I interpreted it as an attempt to win the cyber heart of อี Kitty. Best of luck

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you need to practise your Thai greatwanderer-ไอบ้านนอก means coughing upcountry,no doubt you meant to say ไอ้บ้านนอก an insult meaning country bumpkin,or perhaps in your maturity you meant the Issan อ้ายบ้านนอก ,older brother upcountry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

actually อีบ้านนอกโคตร

though ไอ also means cough, ไอ is interchangeable with ไอ้ in usage, the latter expressess stronger emotion as in ไอ้lizard moniter (get the point) but in common usage, ไอ is written, though ไอ้ is spoken/pronounced

Another example of this type of Thai would be in the writing of เท่าไร though the actuall speaking is pronounced เท่าไหร่

btw, อี is more commonly used among close girlfriends (plutonic) than it is used to insult someone...though the latter use obviously could have an undesired affect if misused like มัน.

I'm sure if we were able to record each and every instance a "Thai insult word" was used in a day in Thailand, an outweighing percentage would be in a non-offensive manner among friends, etc. ofcourse this is probably the same in most languages like English's #$% and #$%^ (mod edit of nasty words)

sigh........

Edited July 16, 2005 by samran

[bannork]

เราอาจจะคุยกันคนละเรื่องเดียวกันก็ได้นะ

By the way, greenwanderer, please stop making assumptions about my background/education/class/race/character to ratify your comments. I might not be as you magine me to be.

Thank you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The more you articulate yourself so clearly, gramatically error-free, and seriousness of such a subject only reinforce my initial assumptions about your background/education/class/race/character. Nothing I said should/would/could have made any other Thai so serious.

What? I don't know you, I don't know what you've been through? Save those lines, I have heard enough of this attitude from a culture I grew up in---based on individualistic selfishness. อย่าคิดมากนะเวย!! ความคิดเมือนผู้หญิงฝรังจริงๆวะ

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The greenwanderer is looking very dodgy, here he is criticising siamese kitty saying she is serious and thinking too much like a farang, whilst if you turn to the general topics forum and read the thread 'SonnyJ's latest', started by the great wanderer, he waxes on about how 'we', meaning self, are farang and Thais don't always understand'us'.

greenwanderer, you're a fake, you're certainly green, probably late teens, just post acne, and you're certainly wandering, somewhere between Thailand and USA, caught between 2 cultures.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bannark,

If you look at that thread mentioned, I said nothing/inferred anything about Thai's not understanding us as Farangs. Anyone would know that 'we' is not a personal pronoun inferring self, but a collective pronoun referring to a group of people including the speaker...but most certainly not limited to the speaker.

Am I fake?...depends on what your definition is of fake. Not real? Being someone/something I'm not? I'm not sure what you are implying here. But if this is what you mean--that I'm not real or being something I'm not, then sure...label me fake. And that would make you what? Real? If your ideas/character/personality represented from your previous post attempt to insult me are a representation of Real/Not Fake, then I'm happy to be the opposite of you.

Late teens...close, but not quite...early 20's, 22 to be precise. Age is a number and is not a measurement of greatness nor validity. If that was the case, why did Jesus, Mohamad, and Sidartha, a few of the 'greatest' most worshiped men in written history leave the mortal world so young?

Green is the color of life...leaves, grass, algea, most herbs, are among the few forms of life on this planet that are green.

Post acne...Acne kicked in for me around 18. It's certainly not over yet, and adds an edge to my look...It serves as a barrier for the desire that many humans have for being a model/pretty boy/girl who make a living from superficial entities and don't have to use their brain for constructive purposes---

a reminder of why vanity is ไร้สาระ---or do you know what that means, ไอบ้านนอก

Wandering between two worlds? No I'm wandering among many more worlds than that. The color spectrum is much more complex than your black and white world.

So am I hurt/offended by your comments outsider? naaah, I interpreted it as an attempt to win the cyber heart of อี Kitty. Best of luck

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you need to practise your Thai greatwanderer-ไอบ้านนอก means coughing upcountry,no doubt you meant to say ไอ้บ้านนอก an insult meaning country bumpkin,or perhaps in your maturity you meant the Issan อ้ายบ้านนอก ,older brother upcountry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

actually อีบ้านนอกโคตร

though ไอ also means cough, ไอ is interchangeable with ไอ้ in usage, the latter expressess stronger emotion as in ไอ้lizard moniter (get the point) but in common usage, ไอ is written, though ไอ้ is spoken/pronounced

Another example of this type of Thai would be in the writing of เท่าไร though the actuall speaking is pronounced เท่าไหร่

btw, อี is more commonly used among close girlfriends (plutonic) than it is used to insult someone...though the latter use obviously could have an undesired affect if misused like มัน.

I'm sure if we were able to record each and every instance a "Thai insult word" was used in a day in Thailand, an outweighing percentage would be in a non-offensive manner among friends, etc. ofcourse this is probably the same in most languages like English's #$% and #$%^ (mod edit of nasty words)

sigh........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you don't know the people on this forum greenwanderer, they're not your friends so you have no right to refer to them as อี orไอ้, by the way, you need to improve your English spelling too, 'expressess' moniter actuall'

[siamesekitty]

Silly me. There I was, taking offense at a total stranger using this kind of language with me, while all the time he was just showing what great buddies we were..

Mai pen rai woi, ไอ้gw old pal...

bannork, ช่างมันเถอะค่ะ อย่าไปถือสาเด็กมันเลย

[chuchok]

As I stated earlier, this is cyber space. Sex and Race are irrelivant. Here, if I have reason to, I'll beat you---man, woman, farang, Thai, or whatever. No biases here, and you most certainly won't win my respect or sympathy just because you claim to be a lady...That doesn't work for me...I've been online long enough to know how many sickos, lady boys, etc. claim to be ladies.

While we're on the subject, I am someone who believes in equal rights. All that smuck about respecting ladies (i.e. ladies first, let the lady have a seat, don't hit girls, etc.) does not make woman equal. If you knew any true feminist female, she would never accept your seat if you try to give it to her on a bus/train as you wanted to be 'the bigger man'.

Equal would be if a girl is justified to hit a man, then the man should be justified to hit a girl...though violence should never be justified from either sex. But obviously in the present, this can often be unfair as men have evolved generally to be larger than women. This is simply a matter of sexual selection since the Patriarchy overcame the Matriarchy several thousand years ago.

Whenever I hear such a comment from a female like 'But you're a man, I'm a woman' is only reinforcing the fact that women are suppressing themselves to be more fragile and less superior than men....which scientifically and biologically is not true at all. Anyone who disagrees should study human history, particularly regarding matriarchal societies. In fact, I have done extensive research on this for a feature story regarding which is located in the feature section of www.nationjunior.com. If you want to read it, the name of the feature is 'Women's World' Another book I suggest is "When God Was a Women" by Merlin Stone

To conclude this off the topic statement, no, I don't discriminate females from males in arguments, fights,  or conversations. Anyone who does is on the basis that women are inferior. So don't expect me to give up my seat or respect you more on the basis that you are a lady, weaker than me...because that would be just as ignorant if the basis were your race/ethnicity. I would give up my seat to someone who was truly needy though such as the elderly, handicapped, pregnant, etc.. Ok, forgive the off the topic sense of this

มันไม่เกียวอะไรแต่ก็สำคัณเหมือนกันวะ

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

greenwanderer,

I can only speak thai a little bit....Do you understand that more than one person from this board has met Bambi?????I asked my wife for a suitable word for you and she came up with this.. ไอ้ควาย (I did promt her a little bit though giggle )

I'm sure you understand.You can PM me and I will give you my real name and phone number.

There is no need for the &lt;deleted&gt; you are spouting.Be nice you prat!

Edited July 16, 2005 by chuchok

[RDN]

I think this thread has run its useful course.

//Topic closed.