Can Your Breathing Technique Make All The Difference?

[rockyysdt]

When either practicing Sitting Meditation, or Mindfulness l focus on the breathe.

Breathe in, breathe out, breathe in, breathe out, without controlling the breath, but merely observing without attachment.

If my mind wonders, when l realise, l gently refocus on the breathe whilst remaining calm and unattached.

Whilst on retreat a well respected Monk was lecturing on the correct breathing technique.

He indicated that many years ago he was taught to focus on the breathe at the tip of the nostrils, watching the breathe flowing in and out.

He said he persevered for seven years without any real level of meditation until he was taught the correct way through Anapanasati.

The improvement he was taught was to follow the breathe into and out of the body, preferably down into the navel area.

Whilst doing this, one should be mindful not to control the breathe but merely observe, adopting counting only to strengthen concentration.

This technique is then supplemented by observing the point at which the in breathe stops & the out breathe begins.

After this the Monk reported that his Meditation & Mindfulness began to progress to what it is today.

I personally have trouble visualising breath flowing internally, particularly on the out breath in which l can only feel the flow of air through my upper bronchial tract and nasal passages.

What are your thoughts and experiences regarding observation of the breathe?

[Brucenkhamen]

You don't want to be visualising the breath flowing in and out of the body, you want to be feeling it.

I've tried most of the different breath techniques over the years and I don't think any one of them is a magic bullet.

You don't watch the breath to learn about the breath, you watch the breath to learn about the mind.

It's just a matter of experimenting to see what works for you, sometimes you'll get in a rut with one technique and changing it is like a breath of fresh air, other times changing too much can be an expression of restlessness.

[Samuian]

I never had any Vipassana instructions - so I do not know - what in this realm is taught -

but practice Yoga, Pranayama, Dharana and Dhyana there are several methods

of breathing techniques, some to warm one up, to cool down, to calm down...

and many "envisioning techniques" BUT they should be done with a teacher/master

who as the experience and in case can guide or if needed help....

I prefer to suggest just to watch the breath as it enters the body and leaves...

in out - in - out... relax... in - out - in - out - everything else will come on silent wings...

[rockyysdt]

I never had any Vipassana instructions - so I do not know - what in this realm is taught -

but practice Yoga, Pranayama, Dharana and Dhyana there are several methods

of breathing techniques, some to warm one up, to cool down, to calm down...

and many "envisioning techniques" BUT they should be done with a teacher/master

who as the experience and in case can guide or if needed help....

I prefer to suggest just to watch the breath as it enters the body and leaves...

in out - in - out... relax... in - out - in - out - everything else will come on silent wings...

The lecturing Monk remained stagnant for seven years on a breathe technique which didn't work for him.

l just didn't want to end up wasting my time.

Your Yoga exercises sound very interesting and beneficial.

I achieve deep relaxation and delicate meditation experience after an hour of Hatha Yoga.

It is excellent for relaxing the body which seems to quieten the mind for me.

What are your experiences using Yoga, Pranayama, Dharana and Dhyana?

[rockyysdt]

You don't want to be visualising the breath flowing in and out of the body, you want to be feeling it.

I've tried most of the different breath techniques over the years and I don't think any one of them is a magic bullet.

You don't watch the breath to learn about the breath, you watch the breath to learn about the mind.

It's just a matter of experimenting to see what works for you, sometimes you'll get in a rut with one technique and changing it is like a breath of fresh air, other times changing too much can be an expression of restlessness.

It's difficult to feel the breathe inside my lungs.

I can experience my chest expanding & my diaphragm moving but can't feel the breathe flowing through except in the nasal & upper bronchial.

With the differing views and interpretations and our individual experiences it's difficult for me to adopt an appropriate breathing technique which may or may not work for me.

[eggomaniac]

Breathe is composed of 4 parts, not 2. It's the pauses between the inhale and the exhale, and the exhale and inhale, where restructuring can occur. Walking, running, swimming are good opportunities to experience this, because one can pick trigger spots; though washing dishes, making love, drifting off to sleep work well, too.

Breathing is a full time job, at least the inhale and exhale part. Our being are much consumed by these processes. The pauses, NOT holds, between is when the mind can 'holiday'.

Think of exhaling and inhaling sort of like having the children all day, pleasant enough but when someone else takes over and you can do some things on your own, heavenly.

'In' the pause after the exhale, I find myself; 'in' the pause after the inhale, I find the world. It has gotten to the point where there is no meditation; it is all life.

[rockyysdt]

Breathe is composed of 4 parts, not 2. It's the pauses between the inhale and the exhale, and the exhale and inhale, where restructuring can occur. Walking, running, swimming are good opportunities to experience this, because one can pick trigger spots; though washing dishes, making love, drifting off to sleep work well, too.

Breathing is a full time job, at least the inhale and exhale part. Our being are much consumed by these processes. The pauses, NOT holds, between is when the mind can 'holiday'.

Think of exhaling and inhaling sort of like having the children all day, pleasant enough but when someone else takes over and you can do some things on your own, heavenly.

'In' the pause after the exhale, I find myself; 'in' the pause after the inhale, I find the world. It has gotten to the point where there is no meditation; it is all life.

Thanks EM.

Experiencing four parts must lead to greater awareness.

Thanks for your insight.

Literature on practice can be so confusing and conflicting. A title I'm currently reading instructs to focus the movement of air past the nostrils and indicates to progress from experiencing the breath changes to blending the out and in into one smooth action.

Did it take many years to achieve your level of breath awareness?

is 'In' the pause after the exhale, I find myself; 'in' the pause after the inhale, I find the world, your practiced visualisation?

[anonymouse]

If you want to learn lessons about breathing and for that matter natural movement watch a toddler, they naturally breath deep and into their abdomens later comes all the stresses of everday living and the bad habits appear.

[eggomaniac]

is 'In' the pause after the exhale, I find myself; 'in' the pause after the inhale, I find the world, your practiced visualisation?

While I'm not sure what 'practiced visualisation means; I think? that is what it used to be, but not anymore. For several years I attained dream wake consciousness, something like a trance I guess, but not quite the same, not quite lucid dreaming, either. A few weeks ago something happened, which is detailed in another Thread. More and more it is like I am not meditating, meditating all the time. The World and my life is now more fascinating than than 'visions', though those were good experiences. I kind of 'miss' them. [One day I am going to try to go back there, but only to try to see if that 'lady' who brought me a song, when I was meditating in NST in 2007 "Precious Love" has anymore for me.] Right now, new found daily Awareness is trumping any enjoyable magic carpet rides.

On the pause before inhaling it's like when you are waiting for your luggage at the airport, you know when the right one comes along. Instead of a myriad of 'experiences' there is only one thought 'goodness' to open the door for. [to bring in great goodness and also 'to be' good] You hold for it, recognise it and it comes in. The term 'finding myself' just popped into my head. On the pause before exhaling a clearer picture of reality has to appear, 'finding the World'. inhaling and exhaling is like having the children, one is preoccupied. The pauses is when you can 'do something o your own'.

It is so easy to do this method while walking. The mind picks out the trigger points ahead. [when one gets to that flower, or that rock] The musician who let me record "precious love" says they use a similar breathing technique for voice training. [Chakra breathing is something I did a LOT.]

Nothing I have read teaches the following; I have never set time aside for meditation, i have been doing it washing dishes, driving, walking, while going to sleep; it really started when I was a shift worker and taught myself to do power naps. This is paying dividends, now, because it's so easy to have this 'mind set' in daily activities.

--------------

Where this led was in Thread called What Happened to Me.

The mod closed it down with a list of thoughtful possibilities, though he did miss one highly probable one.:jap:

[rockyysdt]

[/i]]

that is what it used to be, but not anymore. For several years I attained dream wake consciousness, something like a trance I guess, but not quite the same, not quite lucid dreaming, either. A few weeks ago something happened, which is detailed in another Thread. More and more it is like I am not meditating, meditating all the time. The World and my life is now more fascinating than than 'visions', though those were good experiences. I kind of 'miss' them. [One day I am going to try to go back there, but only to try to see if that 'lady' who brought me a song, when I was meditating in NST in 2007 "Precious Love" has anymore for me.] Right now, new found daily Awareness is trumping any enjoyable magic carpet rides.

On the pause before inhaling it's like when you are waiting for your luggage at the airport, you know when the right one comes along. Instead of a myriad of 'experiences' there is only one thought 'goodness' to open the door for. [to bring in great goodness and also 'to be' good] You hold for it, recognise it and it comes in. The term 'finding myself' just popped into my head. On the pause before exhaling a clearer picture of reality has to appear, 'finding the World'. inhaling and exhaling is like having the children, one is preoccupied. The pauses is when you can 'do something o your own'.

I have much catching up on my breathing awareness to attain your levels.

They say not to cling to or attempt to regain experiences but to practice without expectation. Perhaps in this state you may receive more gifts.

Is "Precious Love" on Youtube?

[/i]]

It is so easy to do this method while walking. The mind picks out the trigger points ahead. [when one gets to that flower, or that rock] The musician who let me record "precious love" says they use a similar breathing technique for voice training. [Chakra breathing is something I did a LOT.]

Nothing I have read teaches the following; I have never set time aside for meditation, i have been doing it washing dishes, driving, walking, while going to sleep; it really started when I was a shift worker and taught myself to do power naps. This is paying dividends, now, because it's so easy to have this 'mind set' in daily activities.

Excellent example of what Theravada teaches. That is Meditation is more than just sitting.

Not to mention the fact that you don't have to find the time as you always breathe & you often walk or perform other activities.

[rockyysdt]

I prefer to suggest just to watch the breath as it enters the body and leaves...

in out - in - out... relax... in - out - in - out - everything else will come on silent wings...

I'll adopt your recommendation.

The retreat instruction (follow the breathe all the way in, then all the way out) destabilised my practice & consigned my retreat expereince to attempting to learn a new technique rather than adding to the depth l had already attained.

Knowing that observation of the breath is central and will command concentration for days, weeks, months & years, it's important l adopt a technique which will work for me.

Even so, I can't help visualising the experienced Monks recommendation to follow the breath into the body & his 7 year lack of progress for not doing so.

l'm currently reading a book which advises to focus on the breath at one point near the tip of the nostrils.

Quote: As a carpenter doesn't focus on a saw blade going up & down but focuses at the point of the cut, so should we focus on a central point inside or at the tip of the nose.

Yoga sounds impressive and will be another area for me to explore, but for the purposes of Meditation & Mindfulness l'll focus on simple uncontrolled breath.

[Samuian]

I never had any Vipassana instructions - so I do not know - what in this realm is taught -

but practice Yoga, Pranayama, Dharana and Dhyana there are several methods

of breathing techniques, some to warm one up, to cool down, to calm down...

and many "envisioning techniques" BUT they should be done with a teacher/master

who as the experience and in case can guide or if needed help....

I prefer to suggest just to watch the breath as it enters the body and leaves...

in out - in - out... relax... in - out - in - out - everything else will come on silent wings...

The lecturing Monk remained stagnant for seven years on a breathe technique which didn't work for him.

l just didn't want to end up wasting my time.

Your Yoga exercises sound very interesting and beneficial.

I achieve deep relaxation and delicate meditation experience after an hour of Hatha Yoga.

It is excellent for relaxing the body which seems to quieten the mind for me.

What are your experiences using Yoga, Pranayama, Dharana and Dhyana?

Agreed!

Same, same, probably very much the same Asanas you are doing in your practice!

My experiences...?

hmmm...

I can only make the same statement, as asana and pranayama deepens awareness, dharana ("concentration") and Dhyana (state of immersion, meditation) are the follow up (of the eight limbs explained by Patanjali, understood as Ashtanga Practice)... and the more complete step, by step, like an uniterrupted flow into ever deeper immersion - Samadhi is experienced - but then who is experiencing it...jiva?

As for the breathing Anuloma and Viloma, couple of rounds of Kapalbhati and after this, I think more of these various Pranayama's as cleansing/activating techniques and then just let the breath take it's own pace and keep "watching" it.... to enter a certain state of immersion one has to set the conditions right, conditioning the body to remain comfortable for an extended period not moving, in very calm position, Asana practice is very good for "creating" the setting of the mind to settle and become calm, clear and collected and "watchful" (oxygen supply from deep breathing) and do some Chakra activation through sounds, omkar as well.

Chanting Mahadosha Nyasa:

Click here

Some times nada Bramha deep relaxation with music - "Yoga Nidra" is excellent cd for that purpose.

A good read: click here

Good read too:

...Pratyahara, dharana, dhyana, and samadhi cannot be practiced. A person cannot simply sit down and say, "Right now I am going to do dharana." All the person can do is to create the right conditions to help bring about a state of dharana; For example, he or she can practice asanas and pranayama that, according to the Yoga Sutra, create favorable conditions for the mind to enter these states. In order to experience dharana and dhyana, the mind must first be in a particular condition....

excerpt from: click here

To insensify/practice dharana is to gaze at one point in the distance when doing asana practice or at a candle, single dot on white wall whilst seated.

Good read all about breathing is "Kriya Yoga" by Shri Harianand Giri this lineage of Kriya requires the contact/guidance ofa genuine masterofthis lineage for initiation!

More here:

May this be for the benefit of all living beings and the entire universe - have a nice day, everyday!

[Samuian]

I prefer to suggest just to watch the breath as it enters the body and leaves...

in out - in - out... relax... in - out - in - out - everything else will come on silent wings...

I'll adopt your recommendation.

The retreat instruction (follow the breathe all the way in, then all the way out) destabilised my practice & consigned my retreat expereince to attempting to learn a new technique rather than adding to the depth l had already attained.

Knowing that observation of the breath is central and will command concentration for days, weeks, months & years, it's important l adopt a technique which will work for me.

Even so, I can't help visualising the experienced Monks recommendation to follow the breath into the body & his 7 year lack of progress for not doing so.

l'm currently reading a book which advises to focus on the breath at one point near the tip of the nostrils.

Quote: As a carpenter doesn't focus on a saw blade going up & down but focuses at the point of the cut, so should we focus on a central point inside or at the tip of the nose.

Yoga sounds impressive and will be another area for me to explore, but for the purposes of Meditation & Mindfulness l'll focus on simple uncontrolled breath.

Focus ion ht tip of the nose if you can establish an "axis" (shushumna nadi) through your entire body and may be extended all the way ... into.. remaining completely relaxed, can be very beneficial!

Concentration - focussing between the eyebrows - Ajna Chakra) or on the top of the head (Crown or Sahasrara Chakra)

All these are good practice for deep Dharana.

Chakra Info:

some beautiful graphics:Chakra Man

Namstasje Namo, Namo!

[Samuian]

Another interesting read regarding "getting nowhere": Click

[rockyysdt]

Agreed!

Same, same, probably very much the same Asanas you are doing in your practice!

My experiences...?

hmmm...

I can only make the same statement, as asana and pranayama deepens awareness, dharana ("concentration") and Dhyana (state of immersion, meditation) are the follow up (of the eight limbs explained by Patanjali, understood as Ashtanga Practice)... and the more complete step, by step, like an uniterrupted flow into ever deeper immersion - Samadhi is experienced - but then who is experiencing it...jiva?

As for the breathing Anuloma and Viloma, couple of rounds of Kapalbhati and after this, I think more of these various Pranayama's as cleansing/activating techniques and then just let the breath take it's own pace and keep "watching" it.... to enter a certain state of immersion one has to set the conditions right, conditioning the body to remain comfortable for an extended period not moving, in very calm position, Asana practice is very good for "creating" the setting of the mind to settle and become calm, clear and collected and "watchful" (oxygen supply from deep breathing) and do some Chakra activation through sounds, omkar as well.

My experience aligns with yours S.

I find physical activity, but more particularly Asanas are definitely cleansing & prepare my mind/body for Practice.

Thanks for the many references.

[eggomaniac]

I have much catching up on my breathing awareness to attain your levels.

Is "Precious Love" on Youtube?

.

On your question about utube, I will ask the musician who recorded the song if we can do that. then PM you the link, if that is okay?

On your comment about 'my levels', I have an idea what 'mindfulness' must mean, but would need clarification. I am not claiming I reached that. My own personal level awareness has increased exponentially recently, but that is only relative to the low levels I was at. For one thing, I am dealing with the ?anger/?disgust/?disappointment, it took me over 1/2 my life to open my other eye.

I don't see myself as way up there, just way higher than I was before.

At this new level, the most prevalent 'improvement' was to have impure thoughts about women released like an anchor. That has been replaced with interacting with women as works of art and the relationships, even a conversation, is highly more rewarding and beautiful than lowly lasciviousness.

Believe me, I have a long way to go, but I, at least, feel my feet are on the ground in the right direction. That is took me 'decades' to do a simple thing like stumble onto to my feet, dang that is annoying. Oh well, I have to forget I was only 1/2 living and enjoy this increased 'fullness' for whatever time I have left. Maybe fullness will even lead to mindfulness; knock on wood.

[rockyysdt]

On your question about utube, I will ask the musician who recorded the song if we can do that. then PM you the link, if that is okay?

Cool.

On your comment about 'my levels', I have an idea what 'mindfulness' must mean, but would need clarification. I am not claiming I reached that. My own personal level awareness has increased exponentially recently, but that is only relative to the low levels I was at. For one thing, I am dealing with the ?anger/?disgust/?disappointment, it took me over 1/2 my life to open my other eye.

I don't see myself as way up there, just way higher than I was before.

You're doing well.

I've expended 70% of my days and & not close to your level.

At this new level, the most prevalent 'improvement' was to have impure thoughts about women released like an anchor. That has been replaced with interacting with women as works of art and the relationships, even a conversation, is highly more rewarding and beautiful than lowly lasciviousness.

Believe me, I have a long way to go, but I, at least, feel my feet are on the ground in the right direction. That is took me 'decades' to do a simple thing like stumble onto to my feet, dang that is annoying. Oh well, I have to forget I was only 1/2 living and enjoy this increased 'fullness' for whatever time I have left. Maybe fullness will even lead to mindfulness; knock on wood.

A good achievement.

Many men spend most of their thoughts & spare resources tied to this anchor.

[Samuian]

You don't want to be visualising the breath flowing in and out of the body, you want to be feeling it.

I've tried most of the different breath techniques over the years and I don't think any one of them is a magic bullet.

You don't watch the breath to learn about the breath, you watch the breath to learn about the mind.

It's just a matter of experimenting to see what works for you, sometimes you'll get in a rut with one technique and changing it is like a breath of fresh air, other times changing too much can be an expression of restlessness.

It's difficult to feel the breathe inside my lungs.

I can experience my chest expanding & my diaphragm moving but can't feel the breathe flowing through except in the nasal & upper bronchial.

With the differing views and interpretations and our individual experiences it's difficult for me to adopt an appropriate breathing technique which may or may not work for me.

no need to 'feel" the breath "in the lungs"... either the moving diaphragm or in the nostrils - Ujyai breath where the throat/windpipe slightly contracts and this "haaam..saaaa" sound is produced naturally.. sounds like the sea on the shoreline...very beneficial, tongue lock (tongue folded back against the palate) can be applied, if done correctly in a fully relaxed, immersed state there should be no air felt protruding the nose. This means that you are exhaling carbonic acid instead of carbon dioxide.

[Adiccavamso]

I never had any Vipassana instructions - so I do not know - what in this realm is taught -

but practice Yoga, Pranayama, Dharana and Dhyana there are several methods

of breathing techniques, some to warm one up, to cool down, to calm down...

and many "envisioning techniques" BUT they should be done with a teacher/master

who as the experience and in case can guide or if needed help....

I prefer to suggest just to watch the breath as it enters the body and leaves...

in out - in - out... relax... in - out - in - out - everything else will come on silent wings...

The lecturing Monk remained stagnant for seven years on a breathe technique which didn't work for him.

l just didn't want to end up wasting my time.

May I suggest you try out different methods until you find the one that works for you? Watching the breath is generally known as 'Calm' meditation (samatha) in Theravada, and it can produce great progress, sometimes life-changing ones, but it will not take you all the way through the 'absortions' or jhanas on the path to arahatship. That said, most people I image are happy to experience greater serenity, a sense of wellbeing and compassion for others. In Vipassana, samatha is used to a lesser or greater extent to establish calm before the self-investigation (starting with the body) begins. As for the breath itself, there are numerous techniques or varieties on the same theme. Zen tends on the whole to follow the breath all the way, imagining it circulating it in and out, while samatha teachers tend to focus on the impact of the breath on the upper lip and nostrils. You might find your own particular way of doing it that produces a calmed mind without intrusive thoughts and even go much further to the first jhana (and beyond?)... it's a matter of sticking at it despite setbacks, doubt etc. Easier said than done!

Your Yoga exercises sound very interesting and beneficial.

I achieve deep relaxation and delicate meditation experience after an hour of Hatha Yoga.

It is excellent for relaxing the body which seems to quieten the mind for me.

What are your experiences using Yoga, Pranayama, Dharana and Dhyana?

[deva]

Hi

i am a yoga and pranayama teacher and keep on visiting koh samui. my next visit is in december 2010. are you interested to learn yoga and pranayama tecniques from me? $100 for a 7 day crash course.