American Arrested On Child Sex Charges In Chiang Mai

[Berkshire]

This is nothing new about Thai authorities exposing farang suspects in front of the cameras. Gloating as well. You seldom or never see Thais treated that way.

Same double standard we are all used to living in this country.

"Seldom" would seem to overrule "Never" so you cannot say seldom or never together as you have done. Also, you must "never" watch Thai news where they parade the Thai culprits and have them re-enact their crime for the cameras, or maybe you always choose to go and grab a snack at the precise time they expose the Thais in front of the cameras.

Your post is trying to justify your perception that you are mistreated as a foreigner. With your attitude maybe you are. I see just as many Thais getting motorcycle tickets as non Thai, and I have never seen a Thai pay 5 Baht for the 10 Baht bus, but I have seen many foreigners paying 20. I used to tell them the score, but too many were downright rude, so now I simply smile and "let it be". Such a small thing should never break their budget anyway, and I have seen a lot of guys pull the old "all I have is a 1,000 Baht bill routine", so it all evens out.

Mostly we are treated very well, but, as in any country (even your home country) your attitude has a lot to do with the way others treat you.

Good, sensible reply, LH. This "Markaew" character is completely full of s**t. This sort of thing, where Thai crime suspects are paraded in front of the camera for all to see, happens all the time. It's in the Thai papers and it's on Thai TV. All the time. To say that "You seldom or never see Thais treated that way" is ignorance in the extreme. Or perhaps he's intentionally trying to mislead....

[BKjohn]

He, if he is innocent does have a real problem under the Thai "justice" system though. If he pleads not guilty when he eventually faces the Judge without his lawyer present and has his charges officially read, is going to be told by the Judge that if he pleads guilty, he will have a much shorter sentence. Should he insist on a "not guilty" plea, he will than spend a min. of one year in jail waiting for his trial. At 72 or any age, Thai jail is no fun.

Most don't know those little details about the Thai law. His lawyer will not be able to see any evidence the prosecution has against him until the day of the trial. The prosecution is not forced to show any evidence proving that he is not guilty and he may have been set up by the mother who was trying to extort money, may be even with the police .....

There are very few cases that go to trial here because your chances of winning are ... well none .. unless you have a lot of money and know the right people

If he is guilty, meaning really guilty and not just a plea, he deserves what he gets

Edited June 18, 2010 by BKjohn

[w11guy]

How does a (presumably) OLD, WHITE, man get a 10 year old Thai girl into a guesthouse alone? And not once, but multiple times? Isn't anyone at the front desk, or a cleaning person, or another guest, or anyone else at all around who asks what their deal is? I mean, everywhere I go people ask me where I'm from, where I'm going, how long I'm staying, if I'm married, anything and everything about my business.... So how does an old white man with a little Thai girl not set of any alarms?

And where were the child's parents/caretakers? Do they normally just not know where she is for substantial periods of time?

Really strange.

I mean, if the guy nabbed the girl on her way home from school once, then maybe it's a little more likely to have gone un-noticed. But this happened multiple times. You would think someone would notice.

Perhaps the girl lives at the guesthouse with her family and the accused is a paying guest.

[tomahawk]

I believe in innocent until proven guilty also but really, what is 72 year old guy doing at guest house alone with 10 year old child? She is obviously not his daughter or his girlfriend's daughter. How naive can someone be?

Mother should also be prosecuted to full extent of the law and by forum rules I will not say what I really hope happens to these people if they are guilty. My girlfriend has 11 year old niece and because of people like these I feel very self-conscious in public with her unless her aunt is also present. Kids who live in muban where I live want me to play games with them and i love children but because of these types of people I feel very uncomfortable playing with the kids when people are around who I do not know. Also, what is in the mind of people who are more upset about farang police volunteer than child rapist?

[Tonto21]

Please be careful about assuming the worst things about male foreigners when you see them with Thai youngsters. Many of us are in legit relationships with Thai adults and are related to the Thai families, including of course actual Dads.

I'll Second this statement, to the point that I've posted a new topic.

[simon43]

The discussions about Tourist Police Volunteers (TPV) are totally irrelevant to this thread, and you would be better off starting a new thread if you want to discuss that topic.

But, it would benefit you to do a search on previous threads. These issues have been discussed many times before on ThaiVisa and comparisons made with the many other countries where volunteer police officers/groups exist.

Simon

(ex-TPV from Phuket, Bangkok, Pattaya and lala land)

[w11guy]

Since we can't really comment on the charge then, who is the falang looking guy in the background with all the badges on his shirt?

My question as well... what do "volunteer wannabe cops" get out of helping the Tourist Police, and do they get a portion of the proceeds of the crimes committed by the Tourist Police, which would seem fair to me.

I'm sure there are easier ways of making money. Many people like to give back to their community. Why's that so hard to understand. You should try it, you may like it.

[NanaFoods]

My question as well... what do "volunteer wannabe cops" get out of helping the Tourist Police, and do they get a portion of the proceeds of the crimes committed by the Tourist Police, which would seem fair to me.

I'll not get into a discussion about what the "volunteer wannabe cops" get out of helping the Thai police (regular as well as tourist) as I think that anyone who has meet one of these, generally useless busy-bodies, already knows. But would like to comment why Thailand has/allows such a force. Having foreign volunteers in their police force is surely an admission of:

we don't know what we're doing because we're all so badly trained;

we can't speak the language

we're lazy and it's better to get someone else to do our work for us

or any combination of the above......If I was a Thai national I would be ashamed to think that my own police force was so inadequate that they have to have Foreign volunteers to get the job done...........is there any other country in the world that does this? I know of none.............

Public relations, the odd foreigner can get directions in English.

You don't need to be in uniform to give directions or the time of day........

You're overlooking the obvious:

a farang cop, in street clothes (or even dressed up like a hippie), can gain the trust of a Thai drug dealer or foreign perp much more easily than a Thai.

[Jirapa]

This is nothing new about Thai authorities exposing farang suspects in front of the cameras. Gloating as well. You seldom or never see Thais treated that way.

Same double standard we are all used to living in this country.

"Seldom" would seem to overrule "Never" so you cannot say seldom or never together as you have done. Also, you must "never" watch Thai news where they parade the Thai culprits and have them re-enact their crime for the cameras, or maybe you always choose to go and grab a snack at the precise time they expose the Thais in front of the cameras.

Your post is trying to justify your perception that you are mistreated as a foreigner. With your attitude maybe you are. I see just as many Thais getting motorcycle tickets as non Thai, and I have never seen a Thai pay 5 Baht for the 10 Baht bus, but I have seen many foreigners paying 20. I used to tell them the score, but too many were downright rude, so now I simply smile and "let it be". Such a small thing should never break their budget anyway, and I have seen a lot of guys pull the old "all I have is a 1,000 Baht bill routine", so it all evens out.

Mostly we are treated very well, but, as in any country (even your home country) your attitude has a lot to do with the way others treat you.

Good, sensible reply, LH. This "Markaew" character is completely full of s**t. This sort of thing, where Thai crime suspects are paraded in front of the camera for all to see, happens all the time. It's in the Thai papers and it's on Thai TV. All the time. To say that "You seldom or never see Thais treated that way" is ignorance in the extreme. Or perhaps he's intentionally trying to mislead....

So LH you've never seen some sorry ass Thai guy or lady sitting in front of a table with bags of pills, a couple of guns, a stack of cash and facing camera with head bowed. It's wrong but it's not a double standards. The police are so happy to parade anyone on TV just to make it look like they're actually doing their job and if these parades help to discourage people from committing crimes they're even happier as less work to do!

[Deez]

Since we can't really comment on the charge then, who is the falang looking guy in the background with all the badges on his shirt?

My question as well... what do "volunteer wannabe cops" get out of helping the Tourist Police, and do they get a portion of the proceeds of the crimes committed by the Tourist Police, which would seem fair to me.

I'll not get into a discussion about what the "volunteer wannabe cops" get out of helping the Thai police (regular as well as tourist) as I think that anyone who has meet one of these, generally useless busy-bodies, already knows. But would like to comment why Thailand has/allows such a force. Having foreign volunteers in their police force is surely an admission of:

we don't know what we're doing because we're all so badly trained;

we can't speak the language

we're lazy and it's better to get someone else to do our work for us

or any combination of the above......If I was a Thai national I would be ashamed to think that my own police force was so inadequate that they have to have Foreign volunteers to get the job done...........is there any other country in the world that does this? I know of none.............

Sadly I have to admit that Canada also allows volunteer police to assist them. They are not allowed to carry firearms and play more of a security assist type of role. These people tend to be individuals that have been rejected by the force and/ or are trying to get more community based hours for their next application to the force.

There is no foreign volunteer police in canada. You been smoking too much BC Bud

[lounger]

According to my wife; Thai TV news said the girls mother took her (the girl) to the farang's room. It's a money thing apparently.

Again, this is according to the news on channel 3.

This post is sadly unremarkable. In my province a young girl,15, was being handed round by her parents until the Thai son of a farange tupped her. Immediately the police were in and the farange was asked for 200,000baht. It was a set up.

In many karaokes here there are underage kids, 16/17. Jail bait for sure but how can the authorities stop the parents pimping?

Maybe if the parents never get to see the cash then this outrage will stop...................

[PingManDan]

Beware of all who have this look in their eye

[souvenirdeparis]

""

In addition, another transnational human trafficking agent has been apprehended whilst attempting to return to the Kingdom.""

?? maï kao djaï loeeeeeï

[hardy1943]

According to my wife; Thai TV news said the girls mother took her (the girl) to the farang's room. It's a money thing apparently.

Again, this is according to the news on channel 3.

Strange? They did not arrest the mother?

[w11guy]

Makes no odds guilty or innocent. Most so called "third countries" splash the dirt, (his picture, details, evidence & the like) on the front page BEFORE the trial or in many instances before the guy is charged. We are guests and it is their custom to print the details in advance. It is common to see "suspects" with heads bowed in front of the evidence, (drugs, guns, cash) etc. This guy may be innocent, i suspect differently however. Why would a 72 year old man want to be alone in an hotel room with a 10 year old girl? Perhaps he had some puppies he wanted to show her? Either way he should have played safe. Never put yourself in a position, if innocent, where others may think something is "going on". If he is innocent i pray to God he gets off. If he is guilty well so be it. Let the Thai's deal with it. As they say; "let the law take it's course". Nuff said.

The law in Britain is about to be changed, but currently the press have a field day publishing pictures of suspected rapists. Some obviously are innocent, but the dirt sticks. In one case recently the loacl paper in Swansea didn't have a photo so just looked up the suspect's name on facebook and used that picture on its front page. It turned out that they had the picture of the wrong guy. So a person that had nothing whatsover to do with the case has had his life turned into a nightmare, as people recognise him in the street and assume he is a convicted rapist.

To many people on this forum are too quick to accuse Thai people and Thai authorities of acting wrongly when the same goes on in their own countries,and often times much worse. If you don't like it here, just leave. Before you complain just take a look at your own countries first. Nowhere is perfect. Focus on the good things for a change, as these vastly outweight the bad things.

As someone else pointed out, how you get treat and the way you perceive things is down to your own attitude. Many on here have a really bad attitude problem, so I'm not inthe least surprised that they get treated badly and think the world has it in for them.

[way2muchcoffee]

Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

That unfortunately isn't true. Under Thai law, as I understand it, the persson arrested is a suspect helping the police with their enquiries and is deemed to be neither innocent or guilty. Also under this essentially Napoleonic legal code the arrest is not made until much further down the road than is the case in most Western countries. That is why the police usually have strong evidence upon arrest.

As for 'crazydrummerpauly's comments: unless it can be proved that the relationship does not involve money changing hands - and few courts will believe that in the case of a foreigner- then prostitution is assumed and then the legal age is 20, not 18. So your friends conviction, imprisonment and deportation were absolutely correct under Thai law.

Very dubious comment. How is such a thing to be pvoven?

[Wolfie]

I've had cause to remove a number of posts from this topic, please stay within the boundaries of the forum rules you all agreed to when signing up to Thaivisa.com.

Any further breaches of the rules will be met with suspension and possible bans.

Regards,

Wolfie

On Behalf of the Moderator Team

[souvenirdeparis]

Why did the girl wait till after multiple events before complaining? Why not the first time? Thai authorities always seem to have overwhelming evidence. We are either not getting all the facts or something just isn't right about this story.

Children often wait months or years to come forward about these kind of things. Sometimes they never come forward at all out of fear and misunderstanding. If her mother was putting her up to it, then it is amazing that it came out at all. Needless to say, I hope that it isn't true too.

You are right that something just isn't right about this story: 72 year old man allegedly molesting a 10 year old girl is definitely not right.

I have a 70 y o sister ; although she had a happy childhood for sure , she has no memory of it .( no problems for teen age years and after , she's a hard headed lady) Then a few years ago she casually told me in a conversation she had just vividly remembered being raped at about ten by a neighbour; must be what made her forget everything before as well.

The little Thaï girl feels shame, not only for her, but for her mother as well .

I'm a 56 grown man, if I ever bedded a 72 man ( God forbid)( and a farang of all evils) I'd feel most embarrassed to report it -EVEN without my mom involved (this I definitely could rule out).

[Sabre]

Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

That unfortunately isn't true. Under Thai law, as I understand it, the persson arrested is a suspect helping the police with their enquiries and is deemed to be neither innocent or guilty. Also under this essentially Napoleonic legal code the arrest is not made until much further down the road than is the case in most Western countries. That is why the police usually have strong evidence upon arrest.

As for 'crazydrummerpauly's comments: unless it can be proved that the relationship does not involve money changing hands - and few courts will believe that in the case of a foreigner- then prostitution is assumed and then the legal age is 20, not 18. So your friends conviction, imprisonment and deportation were absolutely correct under Thai law.

Innocent until proven bankrupt.

[equium]

Since we can't really comment on the charge then, who is the falang looking guy in the background with all the badges on his shirt?

My question as well... what do "volunteer wannabe cops" get out of helping the Tourist Police, and do they get a portion of the proceeds of the crimes committed by the Tourist Police, which would seem fair to me.

I'll not get into a discussion about what the "volunteer wannabe cops" get out of helping the Thai police (regular as well as tourist) as I think that anyone who has meet one of these, generally useless busy-bodies, already knows. But would like to comment why Thailand has/allows such a force. Having foreign volunteers in their police force is surely an admission of:

we don't know what we're doing because we're all so badly trained;

we can't speak the language

we're lazy and it's better to get someone else to do our work for us

or any combination of the above......If I was a Thai national I would be ashamed to think that my own police force was so inadequate that they have to have Foreign volunteers to get the job done...........is there any other country in the world that does this? I know of none.............

try the UK for one but they call them special constables not to be confused with the PCSO who dose get paid anyone entitled to work in th uk can be one

so a thai national could do the same in the uk if he wanted to.

Edited June 18, 2010 by equium

[jc14all]

Thai media loves drama, so stay tuned for episode 2 when the plot thickens and twist with the discovery that old guy was a eunuch after all but was the girls personal English tutor who was baited by the mother is a devious set up to extort money from a gullible farang. LETS SEE OR HEAR THE EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE.

[endure]

Since we can't really comment on the charge then, who is the falang looking guy in the background with all the badges on his shirt?

My question as well... what do "volunteer wannabe cops" get out of helping the Tourist Police, and do they get a portion of the proceeds of the crimes committed by the Tourist Police, which would seem fair to me.

I'll not get into a discussion about what the "volunteer wannabe cops" get out of helping the Thai police (regular as well as tourist) as I think that anyone who has meet one of these, generally useless busy-bodies, already knows. But would like to comment why Thailand has/allows such a force. Having foreign volunteers in their police force is surely an admission of:

we don't know what we're doing because we're all so badly trained;

we can't speak the language

we're lazy and it's better to get someone else to do our work for us

or any combination of the above......If I was a Thai national I would be ashamed to think that my own police force was so inadequate that they have to have Foreign volunteers to get the job done...........is there any other country in the world that does this? I know of none.............

What language? How many languages do you expect a Thai policeman to speak? How many languages does the average policeman in your country speak? Do they speak Thai? Why not?

Most countries in the world employ interpreters when the police have to deal with foreigners and those interpreters are only bought in when things have escalated to a situation where people have been taken to a police station. . At least Thailand makes the effort to have people out on the street who can help tourists.

[TAWP]

Sadly I have to admit that Canada also allows volunteer police to assist them. They are not allowed to carry firearms and play more of a security assist type of role. These people tend to be individuals that have been rejected by the force and/ or are trying to get more community based hours for their next application to the force.

There is no foreign volunteer police in canada. You been smoking too much BC Bud

Yes, there are if you count the fact that it is much easier to become 'Canadian' for a Thai person than it is to become 'Thai' for a Canadian (i.e. on the paper).

[BarnicaleBob]

Is the 72 year old man guilty or not? At this point nobody can really say but for sure there is something amiss here, be it the 10 year old, her mother or the man, one or more of them is guilty of something for sure. Another thing for sure, if any of this is true the 10 year old is a victim no matter how you look at it. In any event it is truly a sad case and the truth needs to be sorted out and treatment for the victim needs to start now. OK I’m probably going to regret responding to this thread but sometimes when I read post from people who act as if they know it all, blasting others without really trying to verify it on their own I get the urge to have my say.

I’m talking about people blasting the police volunteers. First, my position is neutral; I don’t know any of the volunteers and have never (in spite of my bad driving) ever had the opportunity to meet a Thai policeman.

In spite of some misinformation posted here, there are volunteer police programs in many other countries. Canada for one in deed has such a program and to confirm it all you have to do is Google volunteer police Canada and you will find dozens of hits. Here is one of many examples:

[email protected].

I also know there are many volunteer police programs in America. They go by various names but the most common one is COPs or Citizens on Patrol. Google it if you must.

[chiang mai]

Since we can't really comment on the charge then, who is the falang looking guy in the background with all the badges on his shirt?

My question as well... what do "volunteer wannabe cops" get out of helping the Tourist Police, and do they get a portion of the proceeds of the crimes committed by the Tourist Police, which would seem fair to me.

I'll not get into a discussion about what the "volunteer wannabe cops" get out of helping the Thai police (regular as well as tourist) as I think that anyone who has meet one of these, generally useless busy-bodies, already knows. But would like to comment why Thailand has/allows such a force. Having foreign volunteers in their police force is surely an admission of:

we don't know what we're doing because we're all so badly trained;

we can't speak the language

we're lazy and it's better to get someone else to do our work for us

or any combination of the above......If I was a Thai national I would be ashamed to think that my own police force was so inadequate that they have to have Foreign volunteers to get the job done...........is there any other country in the world that does this? I know of none.............

What language? How many languages do you expect a Thai policeman to speak? How many languages does the average policeman in your country speak? Do they speak Thai? Why not?

Most countries in the world employ interpreters when the police have to deal with foreigners and those interpreters are only bought in when things have escalated to a situation where people have been taken to a police station. . At least Thailand makes the effort to have people out on the street who can help tourists.

Until about six years ago the Thai police used to employ Thai english student graduates to fill the role of interpreters in the ranks of the Tourist Police. my ex girlfriend had such a job for three years until the word came down from on high that the cost was too great and that ex-pat farangs should be used because the cost was less, free in fact. Fair enough I suppose but in a more than slightly xenophobic society such as Thailand I can easily see where local nationals would be surprised at the move to use farangs in the role rather than nationals. After all, how many police forces around the world do such a thing, not very many at all I would guess.

[Pui]

I'll not get into a discussion about what the "volunteer wannabe cops" get out of <snip>

Edited by: Toptuan

Reason for edit: Poster can start another thread or join one of the many existing threads about Volunteer Police in Thailand.

[tingtong10]

So very true, I am a step father to two 10 year old girls, I am also a teacher,so' there for the grace of god go I' comes to mind. You have to bear in mind that Farangs here stick out like a totem pole, my two step daughters come with me to the park,we go shopping together,mother stays at home sometimes,and yes,I do get some weird looks from the locals,it is picked up on straight away. Why the hel_l did he leave himself open to this, by taking the girl to his room on his own. A seventy two year old man taking a ten year old to his room, is just not right for whatever reason,I take it he is not the step father of this child, until we know the facts,we will all have to think on that one.Yes,innocent,until proven guilty, but he has left himself wide open to this kind of accusation. Innocent or not,he will be haunted by this for the rest of his life,and the jingoistic Thai police force will make sure that this crap sticks. Its a very good day for them. Got a Farang.

I think all Farang fathers here,with step children share my view on this, do not leave yourself in a situation where you can find yourself open to blackmail,or accusations of this kind. All Thais(especially the police) think we are loaded,and will put you in a position like this where they can gain financial wealth,short time or not. This is what we are dealing with here. I do hope the Police will delve deeper into the mothers involvement,but I doubt it. I do not have a downer on Thailand,I prefer to live here than my own country for reasons most of us are here,but you have to be very wary of your weakened status here as a Farang. Lets hope for his sake that his own countries police force come into this farce,before it gets out of hand.

[Berkshire]

It's rather amazing to me that the Thai Visa readership would engage in a "rush to judgement" of sorts. That is, a concerted effort to find a Thai guilty in all this. Maybe it's the mother for pimping out her daughter. Maybe it's the police for not being more thorough. Or the Thai press for possibly accusing an innocent man. For Christ's sake, the freakin pervert was with a 10 yr old! The other crap is just noise. If the mother, for example, was in fact pimping her daughter (evil if true), she wouldn't be able to do it if there wasn't a ready and willing customer. I tend to believe the suspect is guilty rather than not. I know he's yet to be convicted, but I'm certainly not going to defend this guy because of the old "innocent until proven guilty" business. And you bleeding hearts out there can just stuff it.

[TAWP]

Berkshire>> Allegedly. It hasn't been proven that he did anything wrong with the 10 year old. Yet. So therefor things around isn't just 'noise', it is parts of the overall picture of the event. A mom that allegedly pimped out her daughter is surely a part of that picture and shouldn't be forgotten.

[Mrjlh]

While most of you all seem to have hastily found him "guilty, let me point out one thing. Anyone of you, including women, could find yourself in the same situation and accused of molestation by any child. All it takes is a child to say you did something wrong when you two were alone. And who are the authorities going to believe? I say this because my best friend's life was almost ruined by the same accusations. The child later recanted her story. Reason: she was angry for being grounded for not doing her homework. He was her step-father. The D.A. in his case also said it is very difficult to prove either way and it happens more than publicized.

In this case, it's probably best to let this case take its course before comments are made directly at him.