Cycling - Way Too Many Flat Tires

[fdimike]

FYI

Schwalbe tires & tubes are now being imported into Thailand. I live in Udon Thani and 2 of our bike shops carry the line. Unfortunately, the importer is not bringing in the entire line. Schwalbe inner tube are definitely made differently from what I've seen around here. The tube has only 1 seam which runs around the circuference as opposed to the other tubes which have numerous seams. I'm no tire/tube expert but this brand & manufacturing design seems a whole lot better to me than most of the other stuff available.

[burgdawg]

...I just wanted to bump up this thread to see what everyone has been working on of late.

I thought for sure I would get flats the last 6 months pedaling all over Thailand. Not a single flat and

I weigh 110kgs and run my tyres at 100psi.

Continental Sport Contact slicks. When I stop for a break, I spin my tyre and then wipe clean the tyre surface with a rag.

About 3200km on my Conti;s now, I have heard people getting 5k km on them...dunno?

Prior to US departure, I wash my tyres and coat with a vinyl protectant, like Armor All. Then wrap my tyres up in a big plastic bag.

I know that ozone attacks any rubber product. Not an issue at sea level, but a problem at high altitudes. I live above 7k ft in USA.

[aarn]

Hi (to anyone who may be following this up),

I've been cycling in Thailand on/off since 1995. Roads here so good...

In my experience, using a hand-held pump lacking a flexible connector,

rather than an upright pump (put your foot on it) with a flexible lead,

result in excess motion of the valve stem during inflation,

exacerbating any potential defect in in the area of the stem/tube junction.

And it is a real b!@#$%d hand-pumping on the road in the sun!

Supermarkets here sell upright pumps for 200-300B,

They look cumbersome to me...

In Cambodia some bikeshops have lightweight Chinese-made upright pumps for ~ 100B (OK I payed too much).

They are cheap-looking, and fairly quickly the outer cylinder will get dented on a trip etc.

The best present I ever bought myself was this pump, two years ago in KohKong.

East to use, get high pressure (big stroke volume) and nil valve stem problems.

Carry it on the back of the bike all the time. Straighten it out when dented

Threw out all those fancy mini-pumps with pressure gauges etc.

OK that's my tuppence-worth I'm outta here...

[Tonto21]

OK, sorry I've not read all the replies, so maybe somebody has said the same as I'm going too now.

When you get a flat is the puncher in the same place, inrelation to the valve? It's always possible you are not removing the 'thing' that's giving you the puncher in the first place! Do you ride with good pressure in the tire? Check the spokes and rim tape.

If none of this works………Find a catholic priest and get you rear wheel 'exercised'………………..It won't do any harm.

[LawrenceN]

The most recent failure was with a Camel tube that has a threaded valve stem and a nut which secures the valve stem in place. I tried this because I thought the failure might be because of the valve stem moving or being bumped causing stress and a puncture or tear.

I'm a road rider using presta valves. I don't trust those knurl nuts on the stem and quit using them a while back. A shop mechanic in the U.S. pointed out to me that there's a temptation to tighten them too much, which can pull the tube into the rim too forcefully. With a wheel upgrade last year, I had to by tubes with extra long stems that have no threading, so no way of using those nuts, which indicates to me that they are really not necessary. Try no knurl nuts on the stems for a while and see if that helps.

I realize that doesn't explain the problem when you rode on Schrader tubes, but maybe the others are right about a bad batch in that case.

[Ratsima]

I continue to be plagued by way too many flats; three in the last two weeks. The first was a fierce puncture caused by a piece of wire. The second was yet-another delamination of the valve stem flange. Today it was a complete blowout of a cheap tube I bought as an interim measure to replace the delaminated tube that failed last week.

I've tried so many things. I bought the self sealing tires with the green goop. They never successfully repaired a puncture, but they did drip green goop all over the driveway. (I bought these in the US. Never seen them locally.)

I tried some very expensive "thorn proof" tubes imported from France. They failed just as quickly as the cheap locally made brands.

Note that there is no consistency here. Some flats are clearly due to manufacturing defects, but why do I get so many? Others are just plain punctures. But, why so many? Especially now that I'm no longer riding off-road?

Note also that I am extremely careful when mounting new tubes. I carefully check the inside of the tire for any protrusions. I keep the tires pumped up to recommended pressures.

I've pretty much given up long distance riding because I'm just tired of changing tubes in the field. I do take a repair kit along with one spare tube, but I'm not about to sit out in the hot sun beside a rice field while patching a flat.

These days I pretty much only ride in the vicinity of my home; no more than 10 or 15K per day.

My wife, who is not the slightest bit superstitious, thinks the bike itself is jinxed and that I need a new one.

Maybe I'll take her up on it. If only I believed....

[burgdawg]

Kuhn Ratsima..maybe post some pics of your set-up and then some close up pics of your tyres.

I do like Tonto's idea to "exorcise" you tyres by a monk or Catholic priest to rid yourself of some tyre spirits.

Maybe we can see something from the pictures?

Are you running a Schwalbe e-rated tyre? E-rated are very strong, made with Kevlar. Rated for electric bikes.

Your next stop will be to an electric bike store to suss out their tyre offerings....

I agree, the green SLIME goop is a mess. If it is a small puncture, maybe the stuff works.

Usually, not. The goop gets everywhere, PREVENTING repair.

Are you running tube liners? Made out of polyurethane and Kevlar.

Riding motorbikes in Baja yeara ago, my riding buddy and I had 37 flat repairs. Changing flats in the hot desert sun

is to be avoided. We got fast at changing flats.

I had a compression flat from hitting a rock too hard, which sprung one of the steel bands in the tyre carcass. No way could it be nicked and cut short

enough. Under inflation, I'd re-flat.

This is Tonto's point of "..mark your tube, are you having the flat in the same location on tube, or is it random?"

I finally patched the INSIDE of the tyre itself and this saved the day. Weird, I know.

Time to rebuild a new wheel from the get-go.

Same wheel, or do your flats vary?

I know of guys that have overtightened spokes, only to flat. Check your spoke lengths and run double rim tape

covering all....

[Ratsima]

Here's the latest failure:

[T_Dog]

Very sorry to hear you are still having flats. Have you changed your tires over the course of this problem? Knock on wood, I have only had one flat in the last year, but I do need to stock up on Geax inner tubes. Most everything else seems to fail right at the valve stem in my past experience, just like many of yours.

[Ratsima]

About a year ago I took my bike into the Pro Bike dealer here in Korat for a thorough once-over. I asked him specifically about the flats. He seemed puzzled but suggested that I replace the tires and tubes. He installed a pair of Geax tires (Mezcal) and tubes. While doing this he thoroughly checked the rims and spokes and said that they were fine. Although the Geax tires are still in good shape, the Geax tubes failed just as quickly as the cheap ones I buy from local bike shops. I'm sure it was punctures for both, rather than manufacturing defects.

[T_Dog]

About a year ago I took my bike into the Pro Bike dealer here in Korat for a thorough once-over. I asked him specifically about the flats. He seemed puzzled but suggested that I replace the tires and tubes. He installed a pair of Geax tires (Mezcal) and tubes. While doing this he thoroughly checked the rims and spokes and said that they were fine. Although the Geax tires are still in good shape, the Geax tubes failed just as quickly as the cheap ones I buy from local bike shops. I'm sure it was punctures for both, rather than manufacturing defects.

Gee, that is odd to have so many things done and still have flats. If you lived closer would love to ride with you to try to determine the root cause of the flats. Should not happen so often to anyone.

[Puwa]

This is Twilight Zone stuff, so let me throw out some unconventional possibilities. You've replaced tubes and tires so much that I'd tend to think that the problem doesn't originate that equipment, but something else that we would otherwise overlook. Do you always use the same pump? As a previous poster suggested, it could be that the pump rocks the valve and stresses the surrounding rubber. Or maybe your pressure gauge is faulty and the tires are over-inflated. Good luck and don't give up the fight!

[Ratsima]

I used to use a hand pump, but based on some posts here I bought a floor pump with a flexible hose. I only use the hand pump when in the field. I have a hand-held pressure gauge for the car and have used it to verify that the floor pump gauge is accurate.

[pmcd8243]

I used to use a hand pump, but based on some posts here I bought a floor pump with a flexible hose. I only use the hand pump when in the field. I have a hand-held pressure gauge for the car and have used it to verify that the floor pump gauge is accurate.

I used to use a hand pump, but based on some posts here I bought a floor pump with a flexible hose. I only use the hand pump when in the field. I have a hand-held pressure gauge for the car and have used it to verify that the floor pump gauge is accurate.

My wife's nephews aged 6 and 8 have BMX bikes in Pak Chong. I replaced their tires with these solid core tires and no more flats.(An almost daily occurrence ) I've never used them on my bikes and wonder about the ride but they seem legit.

P

http://www.airfreetires.com/shopping/c-1-bicycle.aspx

[Ratsima]

I considered those air free tires. Where did you get them?

[burgdawg]

Ratsima...

when I enlarged the pic of your latest casuality, I burst out laughing!

Hey, it is the end of a long work day and your photo certainly cheered up my day.

Something is very weird here. I would most certainly post this entire thread link to various tyre and tube manufacturers, including

Schwalbe, Michelin, Camel, Continental, ALL. Contact their Customer Service Department. Go crazy and contact them all.

ALL bicycle tyre manufacturers would love to have a go as Ratsima as a test bed. I bet you receive boxes of tubes to field test!

There are many excellent tyre engineers out there and I will forward to them this link to see if your string of maladies rings any bells with them.

Michelin has a big plant in Chonburi and I know after a few inquiries, you'll be put on the proper path.

On another thread started by T-Dog, I went into greater detail about having some 3500-4000km on a smooth-tread Continental Sport Contact tyre aired up to about 85lbs.

I thought I might get 1k km out of the tyres....more like FOUR times that mileage.

The tyre set was simply amazing getting that kinda mileage WITHOUT a single flat. I was pleasantly amazed.

After every ride, I have a funky glove that I soak wet with water and I lift my tyre, give all a spin and wipe my tyres down.

Front and rear. I've been doing it for years. Reflex now.

Of course, I neglected to study the SIDEWALL and eventually, my Conti Contact fell apart on a desolate Sukhumvit just west of Klaeng. Amazing tyres, replaced with a Scwalbe e-rated tyre.

I've been cycling in Thailand for 5 years and one failed tyre?

Have you replaced your wheels themselves from the ground up?

As poster PUWA mentioned, you are a pioneer into the Twilight Zone, Judging from the date of your posts, your Twilight Zone experience has been raging on for 2-3 years.

Longer?

Both tyres flat, or always the front or rear?

Have you pissed off your neighbors in any way?

Do you have a Spirit House built for the resting place for your old tubes and tyres?

Have you changed out your tyre tools?

Can you have a mate do your next tyre/tube swap-out?

The idea to keep in mind here is the broad end of a funnel---not the pointy end.

That pointy end would represent Reductionsim and you are not there...yet. You really want to cast a wide net as a range of possibilities.

When you feel upset and short-fused, do something else.

Something is awry and you are the test bed for all of us......

[pmcd8243]

I considered those air free tires. Where did you get them?

I bought them in the U.S. and brought them to Thailand with me on the airplane.

[pmcd8243]

I considered those air free tires. Where did you get them?

I bought them in the U.S. and brought them to Thailand with me on the airplane.

Have you addressed the possibility of a dodgy spoke? I have numerous problems with spokes and was told by a bicycle manufacturer that this is an industry wide problem. Stroke the spokes that enter the rim in the area of the recurrent punctures to assess tightness like playing a guitar.. The spoke nipple thread may be stripped and a minor bounce on the weighted rear tire may cause the spoke to temporarily poke through the rim tape, puncture the tire and just as quickly retract leaving no evidence.

[Ratsima]

burgdawd, thanks for that I got a good laugh out of your post.

I have not replaced the wheels. I have had them inspected twice by two different bike shops. Once by an independent mountain bike shop and again by the Pro Bike dealer, both here in Korat. Both pronounced the rims, spokes and tape as being fine. I'm sure either would have been glad to sell me replacements had it all been warranted.

I will check the spokes again, but if that were the problem then it seems there would be some evidence in the form of damaged tape. I've not been able to detect any.

It's almost always the rear tire. I don't think I've ever had a pinch flat. I weigh 78 kilos and keep the tires filled to about 50 psi (the Geax specify 35-65). Almost all what I call manufacturing defects are in the vicinity of the valve stem. But, as noted by many posters this may be evidence of my failure to mount the tubes and tires properly.

Almost all of the punctures have been where the rubber meets the road, which seems to rule out spoke piercings.

Thanks to all. I think it's time to

do something else...

[T_Dog]

It might be time to find a "bike whisperer."

[burgdawg]

crazy thread....

I like pmcd's take the best:

<<Have you addressed the possibility of a dodgy spoke? I have numerous problems with spokes and was told by a bicycle manufacturer that this is an industry wide problem. Stroke the spokes that enter the rim in the area of the recurrent punctures to assess tightness like playing a guitar.. The spoke nipple thread may be stripped and a minor bounce on the weighted rear tire may cause the spoke to temporarily poke through the rim tape, puncture the tire and just as quickly retract leaving no evidence.>>

A stripped nipple would do the damage without much evidencia. Are your flatted tubes facing the spokes, or outwards, towards the tread surface?

Get new spokes and nipples and do a rebuild, cheap charile approach! Lacing up and building a wheel is quite therapeutic and rewarding.

Just get into the Zen of it all. Borrow a dish tool to get a proper dish. Easy to make your own truing jig.

Do you have Tuffy tube liners installed today? I believe these are available in Thailand.

Thailand possesses amazing bicycle kit. Maybe not as thorough as Europe and USA, but quite excellent.

There is a huge pro/con debate about using the tyre liners (Kevlar strip that interfaces between tube and tyre).

Another approach:

I'd say it is time to pony up for a new rear wheel. Keep your current "jai-dam" wheel unchanged and do not let it TOUCH your new

"jai-dee" wheel. We all know voodoo works!

Take your new wheel to the local monk and have holy water sprayed all over it. Once you get 5,000km on your new wheel without any flats, soak

your jai-dam wheel with benzene and burn it!

Even on motorbike tyres and tubes, you never use a lock nut to "snug up" the valve stem to the rim.

That is a recipe for disaster. Just leave the locknut OFF.

You are a 78kg rider having this many flats? Something is way wrong. And reoccuring.

I'm 196cm and weigh 110kg and 1 flat in 5 years using treadless Continentals at 85psi?

Hmmmmm...

Edited August 28, 2012 by burgdawg

[burgdawg]

Airless Bicycle Tires, Google Search, cut 'n paste:

https://www.google.com/#hl=th&gs_nf=1&tok=a9cftToohE3CIVXCfnZjVw&cp=9&gs_id=v&xhr=t&q=airless+bicycle+tires&pf=p&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&oq=airless+b&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=30202992dca4ffa8&biw=1773&bih=897

Ratsima...I fly over to Muang Tai in mid-November and my initial plan is to head to Udon Thani to begin a long meandering ride. If you are so inclined, I'll bring over a set of 2 or 4 airless tyres of your choice.

You can pay me when I deliver the goods, free shipping! Hand carried! I just hope they fold up for stuffing into my duffel!

[Ratsima]

Burgdawg, thank for your kind offer. I'll be in the US myself in October and will pick up something then. Either airless tires or some beefy tubes....

[burgdawg]

..okay, keep us all posted as to the ghost in the machine.

Just weird the way you keep getting flats......cause 'n effect or something else?

Edited August 29, 2012 by burgdawg

[aarn]

Methinks you did something baaaadddd in a previous life, and instead of being reborn as a worm or a frog, have come back as a puncture-prone velocypedalist. I think that there are 'puncture proof' tubes out there - which have a honeycomb interior. Also, there is something called 'slime', I think you just hook up an aerosol can. to a punctured tube, and the tube fills up with some neurotoxic plastic stuff that fills out the puncture.

Please don't have bad dreams and cast this unfortunate, evil spell further afield. AA

[burgdawg]

Ratsima..

what is the latest chapter 'n verse with your tyre trauma?

You still blowing through tubes, or have you hung up our cleats?

let us know if you've found a solution.....

[Ratsima]

To be honest, I haven't been out much. Got sick and then the rains started. I did find a nearby source of X-mission (Taiwan) tubes which I'm hoping are better than the locally made ones I've been using since my US-bought supply ran out.

I'll keep you posted....

[fdimike]

Ratsima

I used to use GEAX tires and tubes and found them very vulnerable to flats from thorns, glass etc. I've since switched to Schwalbe Marathon Extremes (26x2.0) with Schwalbe inner tubes and have noticed a marked decline in the number of flats. Schwalbe tires are not cheap (Extremes cost me $60 ea + shipping from a dealer on Ebay) and only a few versions are imported. However, to me they're worth every penney. When on tour I inflate the tires to at least 60psi which they will easily accept. It's my understanding that high inflation pressures will help prevent flats. I've also learned to ride to the right side in the left hand traffic lane or to the extreme right in the bike lane. This will keep you away from all the road crap which will normally gather to the left side of the bike lane. My 90kg frame sits atop a Surly LHT. I just returned from a 1200km flat free tour to Sukhothai. The bike was fully loaded with 4 panniers & a bar bag. Unfortunately, Schwalbe Marathon Extremes are generally no longer available (there are still some out there) being replaced by the Mondial.

[wenne]

if you are a roadcyclist, try to get hold of continental grand prix 4000S,

not sure though anyone sells in TH ??

since changing to these road tyres ( before bontrager or vittoria ), punctures have reduced from maybe one every 2 weeks to one every 6 months !!

wenne

[T_Dog]

I was thinking of Ratsima today as I was fixing my first flat in two years. I had pumped up my tires to almost 50 PSI which is higher than I have run in long time as I am riding mostly single track. Today however, I had planned on hitting 10 km of single track and then heading up to a high mountain wat on concrete so pumped them up. Off I went and on the way back I get a flat and the stem has pushed out of the tube. Put in a new spare tube and darn if it was shredded in one place. Luckily a motorcycle shop was able to fix the half dozen holes in it and off I went. First though the shop owner had to take a spin on the bike in typical friendly Lanna fashion.

Here is a thread that is worth reading on MTBR. Note that the pressures are all much lower than 50 PSI. Even though the manufacturer rates them that high, I don't think you can reliably count on it. The fact that this tube has hit the trails very hard for two years and then fails when put under higher pressure is telling.

Will also post a rather rare flower that appears only for a few months at the height of the rainy season in deep forest. Saw a few of them so a good day riding.

http://forums.mtbr.c...ing-561602.html